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Long time A's-how can they appear to be sober when they are drunk?



Long time A's-how can they appear to be sober when they are drunk?

Old 02-06-2019, 01:15 AM
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Long time A's-how can they appear to be sober when they are drunk?

When my RAH was 5 or more beers in, he showed all the normal signs of being drunk...slurred speech, unsteady/stumbling, slow reflexes, incessant talking etc.

My brother in law is an end stage alcoholic. His doctor can't believe he's still alive. He wakes up at 5 am to have his first beer. Oddly, his speech isn't slurred, he walks normal, he just seems normal. Except at night, he runs his mouth like your average alcoholic.

Which is why my father in law thinks he's quit drinking. Or cut down. When I clean at my FIL's house (where he lives) I see the beer cans in the recycle container. Lots of them. There would be more but my BIL disposes of them on the way when he walks home from the store, or drinks it outside the store. He also likes his vodka.

He has had most of the family fooled for quite some time now. Everyone says he's cut down and he's never drunk anymore. I say it's been so long since he's been sober, how would they know what he is even like sober? They are in denial, I dropped that argument many moons ago.

But really, how can someone who has been an alcoholic for 30 years not show the normal signs of being drunk? My mind is baffled.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:50 AM
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When you're an A your body adapts to your intake and gets good at processing it, and you also have plenty of practice at coping socially.

When I was drinking I could down a bottle of wine and still be on my feet, and would just have a mild hangover the next day. If I tried that now I'd half kill myself because its been so many years.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:04 AM
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What Feeling Great said—he’s very well practiced.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:36 AM
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After a certain point appearing/acting in control isn't an effort but a normal part of the day. That acting expands into other areas of life. It takes it's toll because the friends, family and peer group that decided to move on/not party or drink until drunk move on. They can see through the act.

Here 1/2 century old alcoholic's peer group seems to change alot now only hanging out with people 1/2 his age, why because they are not old/mature enough to care about his excessive drinking.

There is also a huge amount of enabling even if it's looking the other way. I see this especially in the workplace. Long term drinkers have been enabled or facilitated.

After a certain point it's not an effort to act, con, manipulate, lie etc. Another day in the life of.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:47 AM
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This was the case w/XAH too. Eventually I learned to see, sometimes, when he was drunk, but the signs were so very, very subtle and no one who hadn't lived with him for 20+ years would have ever noticed. Until the night he ended up in the ER as the victim of a hit-and-run down at our mailbox, I never realized just how drunk he really was on a regular basis, as he didn't appear impaired, for the most part.

That night, based on his BAC in the ER and using a website to calculate backward to the time he claimed he had his last drink, I saw that his BAC at the time of the accident had to be nearly .20, enough to make a normal person need help walking/standing, enough to make a normal person vomit, enough to be blackout drunk. And I had no reason to believe he'd drunk any more than what was normal for him that night. It explained SO MUCH about what I'd been living in/with for so many years!

Using that same calculator, I realized that he would still have had a measurable level of alcohol in his blood at the time he would be going to work in the AM, but it would be much lower than his "happy" level. This explained a lot about his behavior in the mornings at home...

What you said here:
I say it's been so long since he's been sober, how would they know what he is even like sober?
is exactly what I eventually realized. In the beginning, I felt SO STUPID--how on earth could I not know he was drinking like he was? As time went on and the pieces of the puzzle slowly came together, I came to understand that I probably hadn't seen him fully sober in many, many years. How could I possibly tell sober from drinking behavior when I hadn't seen him NOT drinking in at least a decade?

It did make things harder when I began to consider leaving the marriage--if he'd been peeing in the living room, vomiting on the lawn and slapping me around, well, the action to take would have been obvious. However, since none of this happened, was it "that bad?" I eventually decided that whether it was "that bad" or not, I wanted more than that from a marriage partner.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:50 AM
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When I drank it really showed very obviously in my behaviour, whereas my sponsor never showed any outward signs of being drunk. We both drank very heavily. It seems to vary person to person.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:49 AM
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Don't ignore the physical signs besides behavior. The alcoholic here now has to shower several times a day because the alcohol seems to change his body chemistry and any scented product on or near his body. It's not unusual for him to smell like day old stale cologne 4-8 hours after continuous drinking. He has to shower before going to the gym especially in the morning. He complained in the past he was being called out on body odor by members and blamed it on the washing machine and detergent years ago. Apparently that issue has flared up again over the last year.

And behavior isn't always about staggering, slurring etc. I notice extreme mood swings and frequent chippyness from a lot of caffeinated/energy drinks to counter the sedation effects of alcohol.

It's just a way of life to them. Just like we get up and go through the day sober they go through the day buzzed or seeking that next high-that goal/focus is extra incentive to put on a show to get what they want. There's also act like they don't have a problem or have it under control but this tact only tends to work among some friends and family.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:27 AM
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Perhaps it is because his tolerance is so high or perhaps he is putting on a show.

It's funny (but not funny haha) that people can look at an alcoholic who is clearly drunk every evening and say - look, he's cutting down!
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:38 AM
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I think, as has been said, it does vary from person to person. Towards the end I could act perfectly normal and not appear intoxicated even to those who knew me very well right up to the point of blacking out. I'm not proud of that but that's the way I was. And blackout level for me was generally in the mid .2's, depending on what I'd eaten, etc. I blew a .42 once and I clearly remember doing it. I was obviously intoxicated at that point but I did not appear to be anywhere near that level of drunkenness. I like me today much better.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:19 PM
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I've read that in advanced alcoholism, the alcoholic becomes super-sensitive to booze and looks/acts drunk with only a small amount of alcohol ingested - I've also read that advanced alcoholic develop a tolerance and need more and more poured into their system before they get the buzz (and start looking drunk). So your mileage may vary.

I also think thequest is right in that the physical signs of alcoholism show up in places other than behavior. My alcoholic ex has been on the bottle for about 35 years - he can appear quite lucid in his speech, but the physical damage shows up in other ways, which a casual observer might not connect to alcohol. He has a "traveling tremor" that's pretty much constant now, and a characteristic lurching gait. Anyone who didn't know him might think he just walks sort of funny, or was in the early stages of Parkinson's disease.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:41 PM
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My dad blew a .12 after his accident, which led to him being convicted of DUI manslaughter. My mom and and another couple was with him, and none of them questioned his driving that evening.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:31 AM
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Built-up tolerance. My stepson can be 3-sheets and not be staggering, but he does eventually cross a line into bizarre conversations...smh.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Seren View Post
Built-up tolerance. My stepson can be 3-sheets and not be staggering, but he does eventually cross a line into bizarre conversations...smh.
Advanced alcoholics physical make up has been altered by alcohol so that their cells have come to rely on it and don't function "properly" without it.

Cells get energy from simple sugars. Carbohydrates and even foods high in proteins often have chemicals that can be broken down into simple sugars. The chemical composition of alcohol is similar to the complex sugars we eat in raw form, and our bodies can change alcohol into the sugars it needs, even easier than the sugar you put on your cereal, I've heard. After many years of drinking, alcohol becomes the body's first choice, and even requires it to function.

This is part of what we call built up tolerance. Your cells just don't tolerate alcohol, they come to depend on it. I remember a recovering alcoholic at a speakers meeting who talked about being sober for three days, and wanted to find an AA meeting. He had a list of meetings in his pocket, but before he could read the list, he had to drink enough beers to get his eyes to focus.

This is the maintenance drinking alcoholics often use to get through the day. They drink just enough alcohol for their bodies to function normally so they can do their jobs and maintain a sweet spot. It's a later stage condition of alcoholism. If they drink too much, however, they get drunk, and it can happen really fast.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DriGuy View Post
Advanced alcoholics physical make up has been altered by alcohol so that their cells have come to rely on it and don't function "properly" without it.
This was my experience with my dad - his intake had been so high for so long that he needed a certain amount just to get to his "normal", just to level out.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by velma929 View Post
My dad blew a .12 after his accident, which led to him being convicted of DUI manslaughter. My mom and and another couple was with him, and none of them questioned his driving that evening.
Sad to hear that. But it's that look the other way or drink with them that can validate the alcoholic's behavior including driving drunk.

In this day and age driving drunk should be a huge no-no with all the information out there but now the lawyers and some of rehab community help rationalize it even if not their intention. I hear stories from people who used dui lawyers etc and they said they were told things like 'don't feel guilty, it happens, don't worry, this all you have to do to get out of this'. They are paid advocates and there is money in duis wether it's the government or these companies that run the associated programs. They sometimes inadvertently can give the offender an excuse to rationalize their behavior/bad decisions. Here with any matter the A uses a lawyer to rationalize his behavior and see what he can get away with, not what is legal or moral.

In the end it's still the alcoholic's and/or drunk driver's responsibility no matter how you put it.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DriGuy View Post
Advanced alcoholics physical make up has been altered by alcohol so that their cells have come to rely on it and don't function "properly" without it.

Cells get energy from simple sugars. Carbohydrates and even foods high in proteins often have chemicals that can be broken down into simple sugars. The chemical composition of alcohol is similar to the complex sugars we eat in raw form, and our bodies can change alcohol into the sugars it needs, even easier than the sugar you put on your cereal, I've heard. After many years of drinking, alcohol becomes the body's first choice, and even requires it to function.

This is part of what we call built up tolerance. Your cells just don't tolerate alcohol, they come to depend on it. I remember a recovering alcoholic at a speakers meeting who talked about being sober for three days, and wanted to find an AA meeting. He had a list of meetings in his pocket, but before he could read the list, he had to drink enough beers to get his eyes to focus.

This is the maintenance drinking alcoholics often use to get through the day. They drink just enough alcohol for their bodies to function normally so they can do their jobs and maintain a sweet spot. It's a later stage condition of alcoholism. If they drink too much, however, they get drunk, and it can happen really fast.
That explains it perfectly, and also explains why he gets passive aggressive and mouthy in the evenings. That's when he's drinking more than his maintenance amount it seems. Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:52 PM
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Thanks everyone. It blows my mind just how far an A will go to protect their ability to drink. I can't wrap my mind around it! Or as the teen girls say these days....I can't even. 😁
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by thequest View Post
Sad to hear that. But it's that look the other way or drink with them that can validate the alcoholic's behavior including driving drunk.

In this day and age driving drunk should be a huge no-no with all the information out there but now the lawyers and some of rehab community help rationalize it even if not their intention. I hear stories from people who used dui lawyers etc and they said they were told things like 'don't feel guilty, it happens, don't worry, this all you have to do to get out of this'. They are paid advocates and there is money in duis wether it's the government or these companies that run the associated programs. They sometimes inadvertently can give the offender an excuse to rationalize their behavior/bad decisions. Here with any matter the A uses a lawyer to rationalize his behavior and see what he can get away with, not what is legal or moral.

In the end it's still the alcoholic's and/or drunk driver's responsibility no matter how you put it.
I understand the job of the defense lawyers. In a perfect world, they would only defend the innocent, but lawyers defending criminals often disturbs me.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DriGuy View Post
Advanced alcoholics physical make up has been altered by alcohol so that their cells have come to rely on it and don't function "properly" without it.

Cells get energy from simple sugars. Carbohydrates and even foods high in proteins often have chemicals that can be broken down into simple sugars. The chemical composition of alcohol is similar to the complex sugars we eat in raw form, and our bodies can change alcohol into the sugars it needs, even easier than the sugar you put on your cereal, I've heard. After many years of drinking, alcohol becomes the body's first choice, and even requires it to function.

This is part of what we call built up tolerance. Your cells just don't tolerate alcohol, they come to depend on it. I remember a recovering alcoholic at a speakers meeting who talked about being sober for three days, and wanted to find an AA meeting. He had a list of meetings in his pocket, but before he could read the list, he had to drink enough beers to get his eyes to focus.

This is the maintenance drinking alcoholics often use to get through the day. They drink just enough alcohol for their bodies to function normally so they can do their jobs and maintain a sweet spot. It's a later stage condition of alcoholism. If they drink too much, however, they get drunk, and it can happen really fast.
Yep, Type I diabetic here. I get the whole carbohydrate/sugar/cells connection.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Seren View Post
Yep, Type I diabetic here. I get the whole carbohydrate/sugar/cells connection.
I'm not diabetic, but 30 years ago, I started having light headed spells, usually at 10:30AM. On two occasions, I nearly collapsed. A doctor checked my blood a couple of times and told me my blood sugar was fine. But when he checked I was not having an episode.

I was telling a coworker about it, and she was not a doctor, but she was a diabetic and said, "I think you are suffering from low blood sugar." She let me borrow one of her blood testing kits and told me to check my sugar levels during episodes. Two days later I had one, and my blood sugar was so low that it failed to even register on her kit.

At that time, I was drinking heavily in the evenings, and my wife and I would have breakfast at a local coffee shop/bakery, where we would have coffee and doughnuts. This was the culprit. And by eating a more healthy breakfast, it nearly stopped the episodes. As near as I can figure, when I loaded up on sugars, my body would react by metabolizing my blood sugars to a point where I had far too little. When I quit drinking years later, the episodes disappeared altogether. To this day, I will never eat a stack of pancakes saturated with syrup. Like alcohol, maybe I could now handle it, but I just won't go there.

It's odd that the remedy for low blood sugar is to avoid eating high sugar foods. That prevents my body from getting carried away and over-compensating for too much sugar. At any rate, that was my experience, and I'm fine now.
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