MCESaint

I don't know if this is (or is not) a reflection of AW's alcoholism BUT when I ask a simple question, I *never* get a simple straight answer from her. Even in her recovery.

Case in point, as reported elsewhere I closed up my own business and took a job with another employer. The employer offers health insurance, very reasonably priced (which we lost when AW quit her job).

There are essentially 3 premium tiers:

Lowest cost: neither employee nor spouse use tobacco.

Next lowest: Either employee or spouse use tobacco;

Highest cost: Both employee and spouse use tobacco.

If you check the box saying you and spouse do not smoke, then you and spouse each have to sign a form certifying you don't smoke.

AW and I have not lived together since early October -- she's been in in-patient rehab followed by living in a sober living facility. She was smoking when she went into rehab; but the program she did suggested she would "detox" from both at the same time.

So, I'm not sure whether she does or does not smoke now.

Therefore, I text her saying: "hey, not wanting to get into your business, but I need to sign us up for health insurance. Not going to pay COBRA after 12/31. Need to know if you're currently smoking because it affects premium rate -- and if I check that you don't smoke, they'll ask you to certify that you don't, so let me know."

No response. 36 hours pass.

I follow-up with -- "hey no judgment. Just need to know so I can get this done before 1/1/19.

Response: "I will quit smoking."

Huh?? I didn't ask you to quit (although IT would be nice if you did quit since it now is clear you are smoking).

Me: I don't care if you do or don't. I just needed to fill out the form correctly and I don't want you to falsely certify something and I don't want tocrosswise with my new employer.

AW: Yes, I currently smoke.

I mean, really -- it's that hard to tell me you smoke???

And you wonder why I don't trust you???

MCE Saint

Awal

Hi, at least you got there in the end! I find people in general can be over protective/sensitive if questioned on doing something that is frowned on by society these days, smoking being a typical example. Drinking of course is another! I hope things improve for you in 2019.

Seren

*chuckle* Excellent venting!!

Yeah, none of us like to be confronted about doing something we know to be bad for us. And technically speaking, she said she 'will ' quit. She didn't lie and say that she definitely has stopped smoking only to reverse that statement when pressed.

Hang in there!!!

tomsteve

reads like ya got the answer just not how you wanted-she will quit smoking so that means shes still smoking.

makin mountians out of mole hills is an exercise i am better off without.

mylifeismine

I get your frustration.......

Sharing something from my sessions with counselor- I'm getting
that one of the things I started doing without realizing it - many
things I say involve wordy explanations. Guess it's from having
to make sense out of living in the insanity of active alcoholism,
but now I try to keep many things as short as possible.

Ex: Signing up for new health insurance and we are required to
certify if we don't smoke. Currently smoking? Yes/No
Thanks

For me I think getting so wordy had to do with trying to keep
the verbal accusations to a minimum by covering all the bases.

Her response "I will quit smoking" could be followed with
" thanks"

Another thing I realize is how poorly RAH & I communicate
in general.

hopeful4

Yes!!! They are like naughty children. Ugh.

PeacefulWater12

**chuckle** Oh yes, for sure. AH does a great long ramble all round the houses when asked a simple question and usually doesn't answer it.

Normal, pleasant questions I mean not intrusive ones

For example, if I ask him what he would like our lunch/dinner. Brings forth a ramble, smoke, mirrors and riddles!!

I no longer ask, I always cook what I fancy having and serve it at the time I like.

Earlier in my recovery, I thought it was unreasonable of me to expect a clear answer to a question, I now know it isn't.

velma929

Technically speaking, I will quit eating too many nacho chips and coffee ice cream.

When I'm dead.

Seren

Hahaha....yes, whether she quits or not is up to her. What I mean is that she did, technically answer the question of whether or not she smokes.

She just did not answer in a way that was wanted.

alwayscovering

My AH does this. It makes me crazy. I am a very direct person. This beating around the bush BS to avoid arguments suck. I realize that sometimes I rub people the wrong way because I am like this but for the love of all that is holy just answer the damn question!!!!!!!!! I don't need the details. Just yes or no.

MCESaint

Oh, I don't think she was trying to avoid the subject because "smoking is bad for her" -- heck, she almost died earlier this year because of complications related to her massive consumption of alcohol and that didn't stop her from going right back to drinking booze after she got out of the hospital. Cigarettes will only hasten her demise by an hour or two in comparison to the booze consumption (pre-rehab).

She avoided a direct answer to the question - IMHO - because she knew that saying "yes, I currently smoke" impacts the *cost* of health insurance premiums. Non-smoker premium is $x; smoker premium is $x + $y.

Just another way that *her* choices costs our family unit more money. This on top of rehab costs, loss of her job, higher car insurance rates, lawyers, etc. all from her past (and current DWI).

Now, I wasn't **trying** to lay a guilt trip on her about THAT -- at least, I don't think I was trying to. I **did** need information (that I wasn't 100% sure about) from her in order to (a) sign up for health insurance and (b) avoid problems with my new employer if I checked the box "no" when it should have been "yes" and (c) put her in a position of having to lie or change the answer when the health insurer asked (as they said they would) for certification that she didn't smoke.

But, it is where, IMHO, her mind went. She felt "guilty" about smoking because of the cost (higher insurance premium); not to mention the cost of buying the cigarettes in the first place.

I'm just not sure I see a path forward with AW, any more.

Even when I think I'm not being "judgey" - she still perceives my communications as "judgey" --- so, of course, I come off (in her mind) as a donkey - hole who is always judging her.

MCE Saint

marie1960

I happen to know my ex husband is a “ donkey hole”. His actions and words have 100% confirmed that for me. I am entitled to my thoughts and opinions regarding this matter. My ex husband probably views me as the witch from hell, he is also entitled to his thoughts and opinions.

I am not going to lose a minute of sleep over how he views me. It’s truly none of my business what others think or say. Ever since I have accepted this this concept, my life is pleasantly manageable.

Peace.

MCESaint

Of course, he is your EX.

My AW is NOT an "ex" ----- at least not yet.

Thus, the issue of how she "filters" or views my communications is an issue that has to be considered - especially as we have a minor child about whom we ought to be "co-parenting". And perhaps the "consideration" is, to separate as much as possible from her.

MCE Saint

trailmix

Ok, let's dissect this.

Mr Saint, have you ever accused your wife of draining your family's finances with her drinking and/or smoking?

Have you ever presented her with a dollar amount cost of what her drinking/smoking and DWI have cost the family?

If you answer yes to either of these questions, then why wouldn't she go there in her head?

If you answered no, well it's her own guilt.

You don't get to choose how she perceives what you say. If you believe what you have said has been misinterpreted and you care enough to, then why not follow it up with an explanation?

MCESaint

Let me dissect this right back:

1. Is it a *fact* that AW drinking has cost this family a lot of money? Yes.

2. Have there been discussions about that fact? Yes.

3. Was THIS PARTICULAR discussion about fact?

No.

4. Should facts be totally and completely ignored in a relationship?? No.

5. You're correct I don't "get" to decide how she perceives things.

But, that just goes back to the problem: Even non-judgey things get perceived by her as being "judgey" . . . and that's not a "relationship" that *I* want to be in.

MCE Saint

trailmix

Ok well, you perceived my post as somewhat "judgey" I think and actually it wasn't intended that way at all. I was using, what I thought was a little bit of lawyer humour - I guess that didn't work!

I am not naive, I totally get what you mean, however, the fact that this has ever been discussed (and I'm going to guess in a judgmental way because what other way is there?) cannot be overlooked.

The fact that you have ever brought her to task about it guarantees the exact reaction she had and whyever would it not?

I'm not "blaming" anyone one here, not you not her, I'm not a judge, I am just trying to shed some light on her reaction, which, in this case, seems kind of normal.

You have reiterated that she is not your "ex", I took this to mean that you still hold out some hope for this relationship? My intent was to shed light, nothing more, I'm not taking sides and i'm not playing devil's advocate.

See how easy it is to feel judged though.

tomsteve

theres a solution for that problem.

DontRemember

MCE saint, you are the one,still, trying to hold on to this relationship...not her. She's doing 'whatever' and you're left to pick up whatever she leaves in her 'wake' and seem to be trying to,still,piece those together and 'make it work". You two are on complete opposite spectrums here. It's on you to do what you do,bud.. What do YOU feel would be in your and your kids best interest be here? Not her's..

clarity888

Hugs to you MCE. The conversation you described sounds an awful lot like ones I had when my H started coming off of alcohol. He was so defensive. Having any sort of productive conversation was very difficult.

FeelingGreat

MCE, I feel your frustration, although you could have stopped the texts with 'I will stop smoking', which said everything.
I enjoyed some of the replies as well and have determined that I will not eat anymore Christmas Pudding (microwave pings).