a real specific issue
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a real specific issue
Hi,
Looking for some action advice on a detail.
My spouse insists she doesn't have a drinking problem; I see actions that say otherwise. I'm not new to this.
I suspect/know my spouse gets quite emotional when hungover. I've confirmed that in the past by checking consumption. I don't need to check my gut anymore.
Some of this detachment stuff is confusing to me and I don't know where to draw the lines.
Today, there has been another super emotional episode.
Lot's of drinking the last few days and last night.
I am certain there is a correlation today.
Today, I stayed detached and listened; I offered some support and asked what was needed from me.
It didn't go over well.
It is quite difficult to think that the drinking is contributing to the actions and not say anything. It's also difficult to get up and leave the room and say , "I'm willing talk about it later when you're less charged up."
I am tempted to either ask directly, "Are you hungover and could that be causing some anxiety?" or state directly something like, "You drank a lot last night and I think maybe that's effecting your outlook?" Maybe that's just too accusatory...
The reason I would be more direct is to at least acknowledge that drinking may be contributing to the emotion level. I want at least put a light on the possibility.
Any thoughts on this approach?
Thanks for your help.
Looking for some action advice on a detail.
My spouse insists she doesn't have a drinking problem; I see actions that say otherwise. I'm not new to this.
I suspect/know my spouse gets quite emotional when hungover. I've confirmed that in the past by checking consumption. I don't need to check my gut anymore.
Some of this detachment stuff is confusing to me and I don't know where to draw the lines.
Today, there has been another super emotional episode.
Lot's of drinking the last few days and last night.
I am certain there is a correlation today.
Today, I stayed detached and listened; I offered some support and asked what was needed from me.
It didn't go over well.
It is quite difficult to think that the drinking is contributing to the actions and not say anything. It's also difficult to get up and leave the room and say , "I'm willing talk about it later when you're less charged up."
I am tempted to either ask directly, "Are you hungover and could that be causing some anxiety?" or state directly something like, "You drank a lot last night and I think maybe that's effecting your outlook?" Maybe that's just too accusatory...
The reason I would be more direct is to at least acknowledge that drinking may be contributing to the emotion level. I want at least put a light on the possibility.
Any thoughts on this approach?
Thanks for your help.
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It would seem she has had the opportunity to acknowledge that her drinking is an issue, no? She doesn't sound quite ready to admit it, though, and I'm afraid that until she *is* ready there's nothing you can say nor any way you can say it that will change that.
You, however, don't need her to agree that her drinking (and all of its subsequent consequences) is a problem for YOU. What are your boundaries for dealing with unacceptable behavior?
You, however, don't need her to agree that her drinking (and all of its subsequent consequences) is a problem for YOU. What are your boundaries for dealing with unacceptable behavior?
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cardoon.....I don't think that there is anything to be gained by walking on eggshells.
I think we all are familiar with the moodiness and irritability that goes along with hangovers from drinking. As far as I know...there is nothing to be gained by trying to offer support...other than just to be civil, of course. Also, familiar with the arguments that come with someone who is disinhibited by alcohol.
It seems, to me, to be very common consequences of living with someone who is actively drinking.
thanks to your sharing, in previous threads...it seem that there have been some chronic issues in the marriage.....even when she wasn't drinking, in 2017...?
My experience is that it is best to give a large distance between the yourself and the drinker...when they are drunk and argumentative,,,or hungover and irritable. A possible boundary.
It is likely, that whatever you say is going to cause her to be defensive, argumentative...angry....especially if you are linking anything to her drinking....
Anyone who interferes with an alcoholic's ability to drink freely, or, in peace, is seen as the Enemy----no matter who it is...it will generate anger and resentment....
As I said...I don't see any value in keeping your concerns or unhappiness with her drinking or post-drinking behaviors hidden under a bushel.
You, like all of us, have to establish the boundaries for what we will or will not live with....
In my experience, this is best done when/if you can catch them in a sober state.....talking about it, that is.....
Even so...the drinker may not be too happy about it...or deny or minimalize what you are talking about.....or shift blame onto you.....
It sounds like the marriage might be in a tough place.....
I see. that, in a previous thread, I suggested that you might go into counseling/therapy...even if your wife doesn't.....to help you to with what you want/need in your relationship....
Generally, marriage counselors will not take a couple if they are aware that one partner is actively drinking....
***An old saying in recovery circles----"Say what you mean; mean what you say; but, don't say it mean".
I think we all are familiar with the moodiness and irritability that goes along with hangovers from drinking. As far as I know...there is nothing to be gained by trying to offer support...other than just to be civil, of course. Also, familiar with the arguments that come with someone who is disinhibited by alcohol.
It seems, to me, to be very common consequences of living with someone who is actively drinking.
thanks to your sharing, in previous threads...it seem that there have been some chronic issues in the marriage.....even when she wasn't drinking, in 2017...?
My experience is that it is best to give a large distance between the yourself and the drinker...when they are drunk and argumentative,,,or hungover and irritable. A possible boundary.
It is likely, that whatever you say is going to cause her to be defensive, argumentative...angry....especially if you are linking anything to her drinking....
Anyone who interferes with an alcoholic's ability to drink freely, or, in peace, is seen as the Enemy----no matter who it is...it will generate anger and resentment....
As I said...I don't see any value in keeping your concerns or unhappiness with her drinking or post-drinking behaviors hidden under a bushel.
You, like all of us, have to establish the boundaries for what we will or will not live with....
In my experience, this is best done when/if you can catch them in a sober state.....talking about it, that is.....
Even so...the drinker may not be too happy about it...or deny or minimalize what you are talking about.....or shift blame onto you.....
It sounds like the marriage might be in a tough place.....
I see. that, in a previous thread, I suggested that you might go into counseling/therapy...even if your wife doesn't.....to help you to with what you want/need in your relationship....
Generally, marriage counselors will not take a couple if they are aware that one partner is actively drinking....
***An old saying in recovery circles----"Say what you mean; mean what you say; but, don't say it mean".
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Thank you for the responses. We have been making progress in the marriage. She declared some months ago that she was comfortable having drink or two and if I don’t like it oh well. And she’s right! And at 2 glasses a day she’s okay to be around. Problem is she can’t maintain that and when she goes over I sometimes get caught off guard and forget to walk away. My problem I know. It’s just really tough when the alcohol gets in the way and the blame is leveled at me or the relationship or some outside thing. Boundaries...
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Originally Posted by cardoon 
Thank you for the responses. We have been making progress in the marriage. She declared some months ago that she was comfortable having drink or two and if I don’t like it oh well. And she’s right! And at 2 glasses a day she’s okay to be around. Problem is she can’t maintain that and when she goes over I sometimes get caught off guard and forget to walk away. My problem I know. It’s just really tough when the alcohol gets in the way and the blame is leveled at me or the relationship or some outside thing. Boundaries...
Therein lies the rub.
- Have strong boundaries
- You have no control over her drinking
- Detach
These are all good things in this situation and the only things, really, that will work to give you some peace and for your own sanity.
The thing is, the relationship will suffer. You can absolutely stay in a relationship for 100 years and remain detached, you absolutely can but it's not going to be any kind of fairy tale. You can't be close to someone and detach at the same time, at least not in the traditional sense, in my opinion (others might disagree).
Relationships are about trust and communication and being able to rely on the other person (all the time, not just when they aren't drinking) etc etc, detachment is not part of these things, it's about letting go, it's about detaching from the behaviours and to some extent the person.
Some people choose this and I totally get it. You are human though, your feelings will get hurt from time to time, that's normal.
It's tough.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
You can't be close to someone and detach at the same time, at least not in the traditional sense, in my opinion (others might disagree). Relationships are about trust and communication and being able to rely on the other person (all the time, not just when they aren't drinking) etc etc, detachment is not part of these things, it's about letting go, it's about detaching from the behaviours and to some extent the person.
Cardoon, a relationship with an active alcoholic is by nature unstable. Personally, I have found the practice of loving detachment to be a tremendously rewarding opportunity for me to lessen the power of others' behavior and to work on and greatly improve my own internal issues that pre-date the relationship. The practice of loving detachment during life with an active alcoholic has brought me a wonderful ability to create my own peace, no matter the choices of others. It's a new freedom and joie de vivre that I would not trade for anything. I will tell you, however, that becoming well practiced in loving detachment and committing to my own inner peace has created an atmosphere in which I am now unwilling to let anyone compromise my mental and spiritual well being. Sadly, this, means that the active alcoholic in my life, whom I dearly love, is no longer welcome in my world.
Loving detachment, in and of itself, is a healthy aspect of every healthy relationship. Without it, we have enmeshment and we rise and fall with the roller coaster of others' making. We need a certain amount of emotional independence in order to have satisfying relationships. But I see how trail mix is right here: Loving detachment does lead to distance if the person who is supposed to be our intimate is a person we cannot rely on, a person with whom we cannot communicate in a stable, mutually satisfying and peaceful way. The better you get at loving detachment, the less willing you will be to expose yourself to the hurtful choices that others may make.
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Thanks again for the thoughtful responses. I just stated clearly that I thought alcohol was contributing to the anxiety and high emotions of the last several days. It was as if I dropped a bomb shell. She followed me around the house as I asked politely to be left alone. I got to my car to leave and she got in. Wow. She told me that I am crazy. I am now tempted to bring out he hidden bottles and empty packages to prove my point. She said that we don’t realate. That I am trying to control her. She said that her drinking is off the table and that me suggesting her drinking was causing her behavior was “ lobbing an emotional bomb.” This is the second time I have said out loud that the quantity she was/ is drinking was too much for me and she didn’t need to agree to that. Anyway. Wow. And thanks again for the level headed advice and empathy.
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cardoon...I applaud your being able to speak your truth.....you are allowed, at least that, I think.
The reality is this....living with a practicing alcoholic is not serene and peaceful waters....especially, if you speak your truth ….and, protect your own boundaries....
But, consider the other option----to stuff down all of your feelings...and keep a cushion under their backside...by enabling them to always drink in comfort, regardless of the effects on you?
How does that help you?...or, help her?
I suspect that she realizes where your vulnerable buttons are...(of course, she does...lol)….and she knows how to intimidate you back into submission. And, she may even up the ante....to regain control, in the relationship....It seems to work for her...and, people tend to continue doing what "works", for them.....
It is your right, and responsibility to decide what you can and will live with....
and, you can't expect an alcoholic who is drinking to agree with you or to , even, be happy about it.....
As my stepfather always said...."They can stay mad until they get glad"....
The reality is this....living with a practicing alcoholic is not serene and peaceful waters....especially, if you speak your truth ….and, protect your own boundaries....
But, consider the other option----to stuff down all of your feelings...and keep a cushion under their backside...by enabling them to always drink in comfort, regardless of the effects on you?
How does that help you?...or, help her?
I suspect that she realizes where your vulnerable buttons are...(of course, she does...lol)….and she knows how to intimidate you back into submission. And, she may even up the ante....to regain control, in the relationship....It seems to work for her...and, people tend to continue doing what "works", for them.....
It is your right, and responsibility to decide what you can and will live with....
and, you can't expect an alcoholic who is drinking to agree with you or to , even, be happy about it.....
As my stepfather always said...."They can stay mad until they get glad"....
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Originally Posted by cardoon
Thanks again for the thoughtful responses. I just stated clearly that I thought alcohol was contributing to the anxiety and high emotions of the last several days. It was as if I dropped a bomb shell. She followed me around the house as I asked politely to be left alone. I got to my car to leave and she got in. Wow. She told me that I am crazy. I am now tempted to bring out he hidden bottles and empty packages to prove my point. She said that we don’t realate. That I am trying to control her. She said that her drinking is off the table and that me suggesting her drinking was causing her behavior was “ lobbing an emotional bomb.” This is the second time I have said out loud that the quantity she was/ is drinking was too much for me and she didn’t need to agree to that. Anyway. Wow. And thanks again for the level headed advice and empathy.
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Again Thanks! The advice and perspectives of you all are ringing so true.
I have a lot to loose if I the marriage ends and she knows that and has used divorce as a tool in the past. She also knows I'm a "forever guy". I've actually worked myself through all that and if divorce happens I'll be okay. Actually, I'd be much more free. I'm still not ready to actually initiate it though. The way she can turn a situation around so that it becomes my problem is remarkable. Plus all the psychobabble....Yes, Dandylion she knows my weak spots and goes for them. I've gotten much, much better at not reacting.
Our situation is not yet untenable, still I feel so lonely at times and even when she just has a few I know it and tend think that I'm talking with a drugged person. So the interaction isn't real. And the need/ want to drink everyday when she knows my feelings about it; well, I know you all know how that is.
So, yeah, I'm learning to be much more independent than I already am, but heck, I didn't get married to live my life by myself. And then I think, "the odds of my soul mate showing up at my age well that's a fantasy."
Interestingly enough she dumped her hard liquor stash in the last day; the empty bottles are in the recycling bin. I don't know what to think about that...
I have a lot to loose if I the marriage ends and she knows that and has used divorce as a tool in the past. She also knows I'm a "forever guy". I've actually worked myself through all that and if divorce happens I'll be okay. Actually, I'd be much more free. I'm still not ready to actually initiate it though. The way she can turn a situation around so that it becomes my problem is remarkable. Plus all the psychobabble....Yes, Dandylion she knows my weak spots and goes for them. I've gotten much, much better at not reacting.
Our situation is not yet untenable, still I feel so lonely at times and even when she just has a few I know it and tend think that I'm talking with a drugged person. So the interaction isn't real. And the need/ want to drink everyday when she knows my feelings about it; well, I know you all know how that is.
So, yeah, I'm learning to be much more independent than I already am, but heck, I didn't get married to live my life by myself. And then I think, "the odds of my soul mate showing up at my age well that's a fantasy."
Interestingly enough she dumped her hard liquor stash in the last day; the empty bottles are in the recycling bin. I don't know what to think about that...
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Originally Posted by cardoon
s
And then I think, "the odds of my soul mate showing up at my age well that's a fantasy."
And then I think, "the odds of my soul mate showing up at my age well that's a fantasy."
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Originally Posted by cardoon
She also knows I'm a "forever guy".
.
.
the odds of my soul mate showing up at my age well that's a fantasy.
just seems a lil contradictory for someone married and sayin theyre a "forever guy"( if my thought about one of them is right) then be thinkin 'bout a soul mate.
i know a few women that would have been in complete hell if they called me their forever guy and stood to it.
i also would have been in complete hell- after i got sober- if stuck to my beliefs early on in a relationship.
hell with circus music playin constantly in the background.
forever.
p.s.
im 51, have been single for quite a few year, and LOVE it.
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Tomsteve you’re making me think!
I think those two perspectives can indeed go together without being contradictory.
An unexamined life is not worth living right?
I took the marriage vow; my perspective is biblical in nature; so yes, till death do us part. Yet as a thoughtful and aware human I need to be weighing my oath against reality; especially in my current situation. In other words I’m malleable to a point.
Part of marriage I think, is developing yourself alongside your chosen partner within the framework of the institution. I have grown tremendously while being married. And I also find myself asking, “did I make the right choice?”
Which leads to my soulmate comment. I must say, that was somewhat tongue in cheek. A jab at myself in a way. I agree with Sparklekitty; there’s probably not just one person out there for anyone at any given time. I stand by my comment though. I evaluate my marriage within the framework of the vows I took with my partner. Are we both moving to a more positive place individually and as a married couple? Is there all the healthy stuff going on that makes the marriage work and therefore the partner soulmates. If not, then maybe there is a person out there that fits better.
I don’t know if I explained myself clearly enough and maybe you’ll read this and tell me I’m extremely confused but that’s what I got for now!
I think those two perspectives can indeed go together without being contradictory.
An unexamined life is not worth living right?
I took the marriage vow; my perspective is biblical in nature; so yes, till death do us part. Yet as a thoughtful and aware human I need to be weighing my oath against reality; especially in my current situation. In other words I’m malleable to a point.
Part of marriage I think, is developing yourself alongside your chosen partner within the framework of the institution. I have grown tremendously while being married. And I also find myself asking, “did I make the right choice?”
Which leads to my soulmate comment. I must say, that was somewhat tongue in cheek. A jab at myself in a way. I agree with Sparklekitty; there’s probably not just one person out there for anyone at any given time. I stand by my comment though. I evaluate my marriage within the framework of the vows I took with my partner. Are we both moving to a more positive place individually and as a married couple? Is there all the healthy stuff going on that makes the marriage work and therefore the partner soulmates. If not, then maybe there is a person out there that fits better.
I don’t know if I explained myself clearly enough and maybe you’ll read this and tell me I’m extremely confused but that’s what I got for now!
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"Our situation is not yet untenable, still I feel so lonely at times and even when she just has a few I know it and tend think that I'm talking with a drugged person. So the interaction isn't real."
This statement really hit me.
Tonight, I had a very bizarre and scary, yet kind of interesting, experience on a deserted highway. I couldn't wait to get home to tell Spouse about it and found myself feeling disappointed, because I knew Spouse had several drinks while I was gone and the response I would get wouldn't be REAL. I thought "maybe I'll wait until tomorrow to tell my fascinating story...so Spouse will be sober and we can have a REAL conversation about it."
These thoughts just passed through my mind, without me thinking twice about it. It's an eye-opener, realizing how accustomed I've become to the extreme drinking.
It IS a sad and lonely place to be in.
Thank you for the eye-opener....
This statement really hit me.
Tonight, I had a very bizarre and scary, yet kind of interesting, experience on a deserted highway. I couldn't wait to get home to tell Spouse about it and found myself feeling disappointed, because I knew Spouse had several drinks while I was gone and the response I would get wouldn't be REAL. I thought "maybe I'll wait until tomorrow to tell my fascinating story...so Spouse will be sober and we can have a REAL conversation about it."
These thoughts just passed through my mind, without me thinking twice about it. It's an eye-opener, realizing how accustomed I've become to the extreme drinking.
It IS a sad and lonely place to be in.
Thank you for the eye-opener....
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