WeThinkNot

Hi everybody, this is my first post here. I was a heavy drinker for about 15+ years, tomorrow I celebrate 20 months of sobriety.

I came across some information about PAWS a few months ago after desperately doing a Google search. I wanted to know why sometimes I would be miserable and break down in tears despite doing all of the "correct" things in sobriety. Reading the information gave me a little bit of relief that what I'm experiencing is normal but living through one of these spells (which I currently am) is still a nightmare.

I've jumped into recovery with both feet and I've made a complete turnaround in a relatively short time. Meditation every morning, heavy lifting four days a week, eating healthy, going to AA meetings, fixing my finances (debt free!), etc. One of the biggest hurdles I had to get over in the first month was the concept of forgiveness. I took an inventory of all the resentments I had towards others and myself and vowed that I would set it free from my heart.

When I get an episode of PAWS all of the old resentments come flooding back and festering in my heart again. Thinking about old pain is bringing tears to my eyes as I type this and feeling like I'm regressing in sobriety is even worse.

I've read that PAWS is supposed to go away after two years. If this is still happening in mid April I have no idea what I'm going to do. I don't see the point of therapy since I've already come to terms with my demons. I refuse to take medication since I'm all about clean living these days. My greatest fear is that the resentments will be along for the ride pretty much for the rest of my life.

I have no clue what kind of answers I'm looking for here.

Dee74

Hi and welcome WeThinkNot
I'm sorry you're suffering.

If it is PAWs, this link not only gives a lot of information but also gives some ideas on mitigating the effects of PAWs.

https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/

I wonder tho if you've thought about also getting checked out for depression and/or anxiety?

D

DayTrader

as a fellow AA-guy, I believe given your post I can say this and you'll get what I mean. If not, please shoot at PM my way.

While what you're experiencing could be "PAWS," it could also be what we call in AA, "untreated alcoholism." The symptoms are almost identical but the treatments are completely different.

When I look back at my history in recovery, it would have been super convenient had "paws" been a popular thing because I would have loved to say "man, these PAWS are driving me nuts." Luckily for me, nobody was talking about PAWS back then so I chose the most logical culprit - untreated alcoholism. As an fellow AA, we have a solution for untreated alcoholism - the 12 steps. The folks who've had that "vital spiritual awakening" don't experience stuff like you are or like I was. For me, it was a great big warning sign that trouble was coming and I better get moving in the right direction.........OR ELSE.

There's a 12-step forum here too.... lots of great info, advice and AA experience to help you there too.


Long story short, I went back through those steps with a helluva motivation. Who wants to be dry AND miserable, ya know? I got really interested in what I'd possibly missed in my first time through the steps. Turned out I'd missed most of the steps.... lol. I mean, I did them my way. That second time through, I did them according to the instructions and it made ALL the difference.

Nobody can say with any conviction which one you're suffering from. And, as you know, all that really matters is what you believe and what you do about it.

and just FYI, it started for me around a year and got progressively WORSE with the passage of time, not better....... until I got down to brass tacks and finally REALLY tried the AA program. In your post I read a lot about the external stuff straightening out but no mention of having a sponsor, completing all 12 steps, or what you were doing about your spiritual and internal condition. Have you formally worked through all 12 steps?

WeThinkNot

I had never heard about PAWS before I found some resources online and it described what I was feeling to a tee.

The mood swings didn't get to me so much in the real early days since I was anticipating it. After some time I'm now finding it to be a blow to the morale. I'll go to bed one night feeling great and believe me I am cognizant of how far I've come along over this twenty month journey. Then I wake up and it's a dark cloud out of nowhere just covering my soul and I'm sobbing in the car while I drive to work. Then after a day or two...poof it's gone.

I'm future tripping hard. I want to get to my two years so I'm convinced this will be over but at the same time I'm terrified it won't be. I'm rambling...

least

I want to welcome you to the SR family.

There are other ways to ease the discomfort. My daughter is into yoga and swears by its therapeutic effects. I also believe in the power of exercise. I don't work out regularly, but do usually manage to get in a dog walk once a day, weather permitting. I know I always feel better after a walk with my dog.

The other thing I was told to do for my sobriety was to practice gratitude every day. It was hard at first cause I was early in recovery and was still depressed. But it got easier and now I find reasons to be grateful everywhere.

D122y

we,

I have paws and ptsd from my drinking days. It gets better and better. I exercise a bunch and I think that helped. Especially jogging.

When I feel like I want to die as I make my 3rd or 4th lap, my paws disappears. The physical suffering wins.

I still suffer a bit everyday.

I am med free as well. Taking rx meds is a bit of an anything can happen world. The meds start to wear off or not work anymore. Then try new meds. Sort of a nightmare to me.

You are not alone.

Thanks.

EverySngleNight

Hi. Sorry you are having a tough time.

I was sober for a couple of years. I definitely experienced some protracted issues during that time. Life threw a LOT of stuff at me and I did relapse.

I had not yet gotten the coping skills I needed to pull though the pain and new issues life threw at me. I had a TON of therapy under my belt too.

I didn't know it but I still had a lot of junk lurking deep down. I wish I had gone for therapy again back then- so of course I feel I should share those sentiments with you. ♡

We are all a work in progress. I hope you feel better soon.

DontRemember

I'll say this; When I was serious and 'working' what I thought was a good 'plan', I was still lying to myself/others. Not big/in obvious lies(finances,relationships,ect..were fine) type of a way..actually "not accepting" would be a better way to phrase it,for me.. Once I 100% accepted my self/situation in life, I was able to build myself back up from there. Anyone can write down a list of resentments(both inner/outer) and pretend to get over them or "give them to a higher power"(not knocking anything), BUT....for me..it wasn't until I fully accepted and owned MY stuff, that I was willing/wanting and worked to get past,that I felt 'free' from them. I still harbor resentments towards other people and they'll be there until those people make ammends(I hope they never try),but I don't let those affect my life any longer.

WeThinkNot

Thanks for the input everybody. You've given me a lot to digest.

When I went to rehab years ago (the first time I got serious about trying to quit) I learned about forgiveness. The part that appealed to me was that forgiveness and reconciliation were not the same. People that have wronged you can be unwelcome in your life but you can still forgive them. That way you empower yourself. I had never thought of it like that before. In my heart I believe I've forgiven everybody but maybe old habits die hard.

I'll have to revisit this tomorrow morning during my meditation. Also I like the idea about practicing gratitude for the simple things in life. Maybe I'm too rigid in sobriety with making sure I'm checking all the right boxes that I'm overlooking the bigger picture (not seeing the forest for the trees if you will).

Thanks again everybody. These "spells" I'm having are not fun but I'm determined to keep improving myself.

DontRemember

that was the biggest 'part' for me..just getting over myself and MY expectations of any/all things out of my control. Once I focused on what I can do, things got a lot simpler. Keep 'chipping away' at what works for you and make the tweaks where you need them, would be my advice...and always look for help/advice before you 'pick up'.

totfit

I am really not a fan of "PAWS". I am not saying it does not exists, but I think entertaining the term and attributing all our "symptoms" to PAWS is not a helpful way to approach sobriety or life. I know that there have been points in my journey where I studied all the literature, was full of knowledge and "afflicted" with so many things, including PAWS my journey seemed near impossible.

I think we attribute possibly many things to PAWS that would just be considered part of the "human condition" for those that have never had the "drinking issue". I have found after floundering along for so long, with my issues, that just "living" responsibly a much better solution and focus. For me focusing on getting proper rest, plenty of exercise, eating a healthy diet, awareness, honesty with self and others and pitching in helping others and contributing to society a much better way to focus my energies. I have found that no matter what my issue, titled or not that focusing not on the issue, but moving forward and living responsibly has been much more effective in my life.

WeThinkNot

It is not my intent to be flippant but a normie could easily say something similar:

"I am not really a fan of alcoholism. I am not saying it does not exist, but I think entertaining the term and attributing all our poor life choices to alcoholism is not a helpful way to approach being a productive member of society or life."

Is it part of the human condition to break down sobbing out of nowhere when you were happy a moment ago? I'm desperate for answers here. I don't think I ever suffered from anxiety/depression in the past. I'm not a doctor so I can't diagnose myself but I'm pretty sure I would know if I did. All I know is that I'm enjoying my new life in sobriety, I'm not craving a drink, and sometimes the darkness just falls on me.

biminiblue

I think having an answer for the darkness is important here.

Forgiving is ongoing. It's not a one-and-done thing. Memories and fears are going to continue to come up, and that's why therapy, yoga, exercise, meditation, prayer, 12 Steps all have similar solutions. They are all means of changing focus and letting go.

Many of the above use the physical, some are purely emotional/mental. Exercise and yoga are really good for the physical, as well as eating a well balanced diet with very little caffeine and/or sugar. I notice pronounced mental functioning problems and intrusive thoughts if I have more than two cups of coffee or eat too much sugar.

Problems in thinking are going to come up forever. Thoughts are random.

How I respond to them are the way forward, and I don't think any of us are permanently cured of random unhappy thoughts. I don't have to grab on to them or invite them to sit down for tea, I just accept that they have visited and I allow them to leave as quickly as they came.

totfit

And you would be correct. Don't mean to be flippant, but we are all human, nothing more or less. We are all "normies". All "normies" have issues of some kind. My issue is just another of those. Works for me.

Andante

Hi! As someone who has been through the PAWS funhouse, I can relate to the distinction you're trying to draw between simple mood swings attributable to inadequate coping skills, and overwhelming wild blows to your stability that seem to come out of nowhere.

Sometimes even the best coping skills in the world fail to have much effect on a brain that's taking a longer time than most to readjust in the wake of long-term alcohol abuse.

I doubt there's anything wrong or inadequate about your efforts at recovery. It's just that for some people it takes longer than others, and sometimes even the best efforts at "rewiring" aren't up to the task when the "circuit board" on which the new wiring is being written is itself damaged and needs time to heal.

I'm afraid there are probably no easy answers. You might consider going the medical route and seeing if a good psychiatrist can prescribe something to level out the extremes.

It's a tough road, but there is hope as long as you continue to do the "next right thing" for your recovery, day by day.

Hang in there!

WeThinkNot

There was an incident that occurred recently which was the debilitating blow to my morale in sobriety. Maybe writing about it would help.

As I said earlier I don't believe I suffered from anxiety/depression before I started drinking or while I was active in my addiction. I was most definitely unhappy in life but depression didn't hang over me like a dark cloud. When I started having these episodes I chalked it up to part of the healing process. After my first year anniversary when the episodes were still occurring from time to time is when I got a little nervous. "Shouldn't I be feeling better by now?" and so forth. I lied to myself that I was feeling burned out from work even though at a gut level I knew there was something wrong with me.

In mid October I booked a 10 day trip to Vegas which is absolutely my favorite place in the world. I wanted to treat myself for my year and half of sobriety and to the goals which I had accomplished during that time. To treat myself kindly. I was having an amazing time and just felt free from all worries. Each morning I went to the gym followed by breakfast. Then I spent some time at the pool as it was still warm. I went to a bunch of nice restaurants, took in some attractions (I highly recommend the Mob Museum), and played some tables.

I was having dinner one evening after having already been in Vegas for a week. Just out of nowhere the episode hit me. Nothing triggered it, nothing happened, just boom out of nowhere. I started panicking because I was happy on my vacation, enjoying myself SO WHY IS THIS HAPPENING. After finishing my meal I made a beeline to my room, started crying in my depression, and just called it a night.

The next morning? Completely fine. It was as if the whole incident from the previous day had never happened.

It felt like I was losing my mind because it just came/went on a whim while I was on vacation. I googled "depression during early recovery" or something like that and somehow came across an article about PAWS. I had never heard of it but it seemed to describe what I was going through.

Ever since then I can't let my mind rest despite my best efforts. On the one hand I'm thinking "just a few more months to grind through" while I'm also thinking "what if these spells never go away?"

Spider

It never ceases to amaze me that people so effortlessly universalize the very real and really large and complicated issues of others around their own experience.

Granted, some people exaggerate. Some people claim ailments that help explain or excuse manageable issues, but here? Really? There is a concept of 'charity' in logic; it's simple. In light of a unconfirmable (and irrefutable) detail in a position, one can go with it to see if anything is there.

As for my experience, I know there are others who assimilate into really happy, healthy, and comfortable lives. That fact is neither an inconvenience nor a source of schadenfreude for me. It simply isn't my experience...and I exercise, eat well, take medical suggestions, and am of service to my family and others...the latter done purposely under the radar because I believe in altruism; I don't want recognition for what I ought to be doing.

And with all this, I still feel as if a pre-born state would be a kindness

sugarbear1

I'm sorry if I missed it, but have you mentioned working those 12 steps?

WeThinkNot

The short answer is no. When I first quit I did 90 meetings in 90 days because I was desperate for help. I like my AA group because of the fellowship and mainly because I wanted to absorb as much knowledge as I could. I still go twice a week but I never got a sponsor.

I've tailored my own recovery plan which is based in large part on AA's principles. I know AA can be divisive in the recovery community; I have an overall positive opinion of the group but I'm not an avid follower. I took my username from the promises because I've found that despite this bump in the road they have either come true or are coming true for me.

Tomorrow I'm going to see a general practitioner MD who specializes in addiction. The last time I saw this guy is right when I stopped drinking. I barely remember him, it will be nice to become acquainted when I'm in a better frame of mind.