Sometimes I wonder why I bothered.
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Sometimes I wonder why I bothered.
As I head to sleep tonight after a day of meeting up with the guy I have feelings for, that I used to be so close to, I wonder at times why I bothered.
Why I bothered with learning all about codependency, staying on my side of the street and being responsible for myself. Why I bothered giving up alcohol myself. I looked at him today, living with his cousin, seemingly happy. They both have each other now, she has no self awareness about codependency etc nor does she want to know, and she gets to have him all the time. She gets to have drinks with him most nights, they play cards, watch TV series together, eat dinner together, it's a pretty sweet arrangement.
Here I am, alone, sober and feeling lonely without him. When I spoke to him and he about all I've learned, I don't think they got it at all! She def didn't. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Sometimes it seems that doing all the "right" things, by the book and following the rules, makes you seem boring, preachy, arrogant, and Ridgid. They are bending all the rules and are quite happy with their arrangement. Maybe I should have just joined them in that blissful delusion.
just how I'm feeling tonight.
Why I bothered with learning all about codependency, staying on my side of the street and being responsible for myself. Why I bothered giving up alcohol myself. I looked at him today, living with his cousin, seemingly happy. They both have each other now, she has no self awareness about codependency etc nor does she want to know, and she gets to have him all the time. She gets to have drinks with him most nights, they play cards, watch TV series together, eat dinner together, it's a pretty sweet arrangement.
Here I am, alone, sober and feeling lonely without him. When I spoke to him and he about all I've learned, I don't think they got it at all! She def didn't. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Sometimes it seems that doing all the "right" things, by the book and following the rules, makes you seem boring, preachy, arrogant, and Ridgid. They are bending all the rules and are quite happy with their arrangement. Maybe I should have just joined them in that blissful delusion.
just how I'm feeling tonight.
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Glenjo,
So sorry you’re feeling down. Life and relationships can be difficult to navigate. But I suspect that misery with this guy was what led you to your personal journey in the first place.
Sounds like he painted quite the rosy picture for you. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Maybe it will last, but based on my experience, my reading, as well as the experiences documented here, probably not.
I spent the holiday alone as DS is with ex’s family. Not pleasant, but not bad either. I am secure in the knowledge that the relationship(s) I ended was (were) in my best interest. Sure, I could have compromised and not been alone today. But I choose the more difficult path, and every day I am thankful that I was honest with myself.
You may find peace with your choices as time passes. Trust your gut.
-bora
So sorry you’re feeling down. Life and relationships can be difficult to navigate. But I suspect that misery with this guy was what led you to your personal journey in the first place.
Sounds like he painted quite the rosy picture for you. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Maybe it will last, but based on my experience, my reading, as well as the experiences documented here, probably not.
I spent the holiday alone as DS is with ex’s family. Not pleasant, but not bad either. I am secure in the knowledge that the relationship(s) I ended was (were) in my best interest. Sure, I could have compromised and not been alone today. But I choose the more difficult path, and every day I am thankful that I was honest with myself.
You may find peace with your choices as time passes. Trust your gut.
-bora
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99 
Why I bothered with learning all about codependency, staying on my side of the street and being responsible for myself. Why I bothered giving up alcohol myself.
Why did you learn about codependency?
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I think the most important thing you are forgetting for the moment is how he took off on a mad bender for months and didn't contact you to let you know what was going on.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I think the most important thing you are forgetting for the moment is how he took off on a mad bender for months and didn't contact you to let you know what was going on.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
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Originally Posted by boreas
Glenjo,
So sorry you’re feeling down. Life and relationships can be difficult to navigate. But I suspect that misery with this guy was what led you to your personal journey in the first place.
Sounds like he painted quite the rosy picture for you. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Maybe it will last, but based on my experience, my reading, as well as the experiences documented here, probably not.
I spent the holiday alone as DS is with ex’s family. Not pleasant, but not bad either. I am secure in the knowledge that the relationship(s) I ended was (were) in my best interest. Sure, I could have compromised and not been alone today. But I choose the more difficult path, and every day I am thankful that I was honest with myself.
You may find peace with your choices as time passes. Trust your gut.
-bora
So sorry you’re feeling down. Life and relationships can be difficult to navigate. But I suspect that misery with this guy was what led you to your personal journey in the first place.
Sounds like he painted quite the rosy picture for you. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Maybe it will last, but based on my experience, my reading, as well as the experiences documented here, probably not.
I spent the holiday alone as DS is with ex’s family. Not pleasant, but not bad either. I am secure in the knowledge that the relationship(s) I ended was (were) in my best interest. Sure, I could have compromised and not been alone today. But I choose the more difficult path, and every day I am thankful that I was honest with myself.
You may find peace with your choices as time passes. Trust your gut.
-bora
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I think the most important thing you are forgetting for the moment is how he took off on a mad bender for months and didn't contact you to let you know what was going on.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
What's happened here is that he lost all of his supports. No one was going to take care of him while he was doing that.
Along comes the cousin with free everything including alcohol. He's not there to quit drinking, he is there because it's free and it's somewhere to be where his drinking is accepted and he can relax. He's not even looking for a job. Who does that??
You mentioned he won't be looking for a job for a few months. I'm sure this is something he has worked out with his cousin and that gives him cruising time.
I don't think his intentions are good and I suspect you don't either. If he was of good intent you would have picked up on it and I take it you didn't.
I also don't know why you quit drinking. As for learning about co-dependency, that can't have hurt. You mentioned being around him had put you off alcohol, once you saw what it can do. Are you now realizing you did it "for" him?
As for him not getting it, he's not interested in co-dependency, he's interested in drinking. He is not in any kind of recovery, he is in active addiction.
As for the alcohol I gave it up not for him but to help manage my anxiety around everything. He says he is well aware he is in active addiction, but will be stopping soon and going to daily meetings are resuming trauma therapy in the new town.
Who knows. Maybe he will do it. At this stage I hope he does but I have no idea. I wonder what would happen if she stopped buying him alcohol daily on her way home from work. Maybe they know better and this plan of slowly coming off will work and I'm just a crazy Codependent who thinks I know better.
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Originally Posted by FallenAngelina
Why did you give up alcohol?
Why did you learn about codependency?
Why did you learn about codependency?
I learned about codepency to also deal with the pain and so it wouldn't happen again. I did it for me.
He said yesterday, what happened was all him, not one bit of it was my fault. He had planned to do all the things we had planned but once he got that first hit he went on a bender and addiction took over. He said his addiction always comes first. If I'd realised that in June I may not have been do traumatised, I think I was naieve. I blamed myself for so much when really he didn't even think about me, he thought of the alcohol and drugs.
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Sounds "normal" to me, in us recovering from the effects of addicts. Just as the alcoholic/addict has to deal with the addiction telling him/her there isn't a problem, etc.
As we keep moving forward, taking the next good healthy actions, more will be revealed. God signs. Words someone says at a meeting. Expect good surprises. Sounds like a really good time to ramp up self-care and put to use recovery skills.
As we keep moving forward, taking the next good healthy actions, more will be revealed. God signs. Words someone says at a meeting. Expect good surprises. Sounds like a really good time to ramp up self-care and put to use recovery skills.
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Rose-colored glasses?
She gets to have drinks with him most nights, they play cards, watch TV series together, eat dinner together, it's a pretty sweet arrangement.
Now, the cousin can do what she wants with her money, but, really? This is manipulation and dysfunction at its finest. That she is a willing participant doesn't change that.
I seriously doubt they enjoy all this cozy companionship as he downs one bottle of wine after another. He gets more and more incoherent, maybe nasty, until he finally passes out. Maybe wets the bed. He isn't weaning off anything. He's getting hammered.
Perhaps he really does want to recover but nothing you've described shows it. You have written of his bad treatment of you many times. That he apologized, that you got some closure from your meeting is good but you know, talk is cheap.
I'm sorry you're feeling down, really and don't mean to upset you but I think your feelings for him cloud your perception. Which is very normal, we've all been there.
Maybe they know better and this plan of slowly coming off will work
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Originally Posted by 53500
Glenjo, I say this gently but you're skipping over the obvious. He is *using* her and he drinks like a fish. She supports him as if he's a child. He isn't even trying to contribute and he's fine with that. Like another said, he found the addict's dream: a free roof, food and booze.
Now, the cousin can do what she wants with her money, but, really? This is manipulation and dysfunction at its finest. That she is a willing participant doesn't change that.
I seriously doubt they enjoy all this cozy companionship as he downs one bottle of wine after another. He gets more and more incoherent, maybe nasty, until he finally passes out. Maybe wets the bed. He isn't weaning off anything. He's getting hammered.
Perhaps he really does want to recover but nothing you've described shows it. You have written of his bad treatment of you many times. That he apologized, that you got some closure from your meeting is good but you know, talk is cheap.
I'm sorry you're feeling down, really and don't mean to upset you but I think your feelings for him cloud your perception. Which is very normal, we've all been there.
They don't, and it won't. Read what the alcoholics in recovery say about tapering.
Now, the cousin can do what she wants with her money, but, really? This is manipulation and dysfunction at its finest. That she is a willing participant doesn't change that.
I seriously doubt they enjoy all this cozy companionship as he downs one bottle of wine after another. He gets more and more incoherent, maybe nasty, until he finally passes out. Maybe wets the bed. He isn't weaning off anything. He's getting hammered.
Perhaps he really does want to recover but nothing you've described shows it. You have written of his bad treatment of you many times. That he apologized, that you got some closure from your meeting is good but you know, talk is cheap.
I'm sorry you're feeling down, really and don't mean to upset you but I think your feelings for him cloud your perception. Which is very normal, we've all been there.
They don't, and it won't. Read what the alcoholics in recovery say about tapering.
Going to do my best to focus on me for a bit.
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Hi Glenjo99
IMHO, speaking as a recovering alcoholic, tapering is a fallacy/fantasy for alcoholics to keep drinking.
I also know from experience how to show people only what I want them to see and not the ugly reality that was my life.
Keep focusing on yourself, cheesy as it sounds, be your own best friend.
I am rooting for you
IMHO, speaking as a recovering alcoholic, tapering is a fallacy/fantasy for alcoholics to keep drinking.
I also know from experience how to show people only what I want them to see and not the ugly reality that was my life.
Keep focusing on yourself, cheesy as it sounds, be your own best friend.
I am rooting for you
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Originally Posted by 2ndhandrose
Hi Glenjo99
IMHO, speaking as a recovering alcoholic, tapering is a fallacy/fantasy for alcoholics to keep drinking.
I also know from experience how to show people only what I want them to see and not the ugly reality that was my life.
Keep focusing on yourself, cheesy as it sounds, be your own best friend.
I am rooting for you
IMHO, speaking as a recovering alcoholic, tapering is a fallacy/fantasy for alcoholics to keep drinking.
I also know from experience how to show people only what I want them to see and not the ugly reality that was my life.
Keep focusing on yourself, cheesy as it sounds, be your own best friend.
I am rooting for you
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He said his addiction always comes first.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
At least he is being honest. For all active alcoholics their higher power, great love of their life and god is alcohol. Anything that interferes with that goes.
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I dont’t know, I’m personally someone who is open to non conventional / alternative treatment options/ remedies, but even those require a plan of action and follow through. Sounds to me like he and the cousin are using each other for different reasons. Both getting something out of it, most likely.
She can try to control him, by setting up this whole charade and viewing herself as the “healthy” one, even though she’s sick and dysfunctional too. He can pretend to go along (even as he’s admitting his addictions come first), to get the benefits of this set up. From what you have said about his history, it’s only a matter of time before they start getting on each other’s nerves, he starts acting out, and all hell breaks loose.
Bottom line though, there does not seem to be any kind of recovery going on here, alternative of otherwise. Just smoke and mirrors, but at the end of the day, it’s the the same behaviors
^ and very true how sad it is to see how addiction takes over some people’s lives, and also to watch it play out, how not everyone finds recovery or gets better. :/
She can try to control him, by setting up this whole charade and viewing herself as the “healthy” one, even though she’s sick and dysfunctional too. He can pretend to go along (even as he’s admitting his addictions come first), to get the benefits of this set up. From what you have said about his history, it’s only a matter of time before they start getting on each other’s nerves, he starts acting out, and all hell breaks loose.
Bottom line though, there does not seem to be any kind of recovery going on here, alternative of otherwise. Just smoke and mirrors, but at the end of the day, it’s the the same behaviors
^ and very true how sad it is to see how addiction takes over some people’s lives, and also to watch it play out, how not everyone finds recovery or gets better. :/
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Originally Posted by pdm22
I dont’t know, I’m personally someone who is open to non conventional / alternative treatment options/ remedies, but even those require a plan of action and follow through. Sounds to me like he and the cousin are using each other for different reasons. Both getting something out of it, most likely.
She can try to control him, by setting up this whole charade and viewing herself as the “healthy” one, even though she’s sick and dysfunctional too. He can pretend to go along (even as he’s admitting his addictions come first), to get the benefits of this set up. From what you have said about his history, it’s only a matter of time before they start getting on each other’s nerves, he starts acting out, and all hell breaks loose.
Bottom line though, there does not seem to be any kind of recovery going on here, alternative of otherwise. Just smoke and mirrors, but at the end of the day, it’s the the same behaviors
^ and very true how sad it is to see how addiction takes over some people’s lives, and also to watch it play out, how not everyone finds recovery or gets better. :/
She can try to control him, by setting up this whole charade and viewing herself as the “healthy” one, even though she’s sick and dysfunctional too. He can pretend to go along (even as he’s admitting his addictions come first), to get the benefits of this set up. From what you have said about his history, it’s only a matter of time before they start getting on each other’s nerves, he starts acting out, and all hell breaks loose.
Bottom line though, there does not seem to be any kind of recovery going on here, alternative of otherwise. Just smoke and mirrors, but at the end of the day, it’s the the same behaviors
^ and very true how sad it is to see how addiction takes over some people’s lives, and also to watch it play out, how not everyone finds recovery or gets better. :/
Yes I can imagine they will get on each others nerves, they did before so can't see why it won't happen again. But who knows. If he wants to stay drunk for the foreseeable and she wants to keep him as her surrogate partner (couldn't resist but you'd have to see it to believe it) then who knows when it would stop.
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
Yes I think there's lots of delusion on both parts. She is the most codependent person I've encountered in my life, and I say that as one. I agree she is getting her needs met, emotional ones, and she gets to feel like the one who rescued him and will get him sober. When i spoke to her she was all about her needing to know what he is drinking with a view to him stopping soon, like she could control it. She tried to control me this week, and I'm sure it's annoying her she couldn't.
Yes I can imagine they will get on each others nerves, they did before so can't see why it won't happen again. But who knows. If he wants to stay drunk for the foreseeable and she wants to keep him as her surrogate partner (couldn't resist but you'd have to see it to believe it) then who knows when it would stop.
Yes I can imagine they will get on each others nerves, they did before so can't see why it won't happen again. But who knows. If he wants to stay drunk for the foreseeable and she wants to keep him as her surrogate partner (couldn't resist but you'd have to see it to believe it) then who knows when it would stop.
Oh yes, I can totally imagine. I actually work in Human Services/ Social Work, and it’s a known thing within the field, that you get a lot of this type of thing too. I don’t know how old you are, but do you remember that Hairclub For Men commercial from the 80s, and how the guy says “I’m not only the hairclub president, but I’m also a client”? We’d joke that that’s how it was there, too. I could tell you some stories! People in positions of authority getting romantically involved with clients, developing their own addictions, and still seeing themselves as the “healthy” ones. Some really crazy stuff.
To me it’s all a huge reminder to be self aware and aware of my own stuff, what *not* to do. It can be such a slippery slope, especially when you love someone and feelings are involved, though. Hang in there, sounds like you dodged getting hoovered in by the cousin, which is good!
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Originally Posted by pdm22
Oh yes, I can totally imagine. I actually work in Human Services/ Social Work, and it’s a known thing within the field, that you get a lot of this type of thing too. I don’t know how old you are, but do you remember that Hairclub For Men commercial from the 80s, and how the guy says “I’m not only the hairclub president, but I’m also a client”? We’d joke that that’s how it was there, too. I could tell you some stories! People in positions of authority getting romantically involved with clients, developing their own addictions, and still seeing themselves as the “healthy” ones. Some really crazy stuff.
To me it’s all a huge reminder to be self aware and aware of my own stuff, what *not* to do. It can be such a slippery slope, especially when you love someone and feelings are involved, though. Hang in there, sounds like you dodged getting hoovered in by the cousin, which is good!
Yes the last time he lived here, the cousin tried to lean on me a bit but I did everything to avoid it, failed mostly. This time I'm more strict on it, not sure how it will pan out. If he stays under her spell, my not reporting back to her, she may try stop him being around me but I'm hoping he is stronger than that. If not, I'll survive.
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
Funny you mentioned that, apparently he had a fling with a counsellor in his first rehab. She lost her job for it.
Yes the last time he lived here, the cousin tried to lean on me a bit but I did everything to avoid it, failed mostly. This time I'm more strict on it, not sure how it will pan out. If he stays under her spell, my not reporting back to her, she may try stop him being around me but I'm hoping he is stronger than that. If not, I'll survive.
Yes the last time he lived here, the cousin tried to lean on me a bit but I did everything to avoid it, failed mostly. This time I'm more strict on it, not sure how it will pan out. If he stays under her spell, my not reporting back to her, she may try stop him being around me but I'm hoping he is stronger than that. If not, I'll survive.
Not knowing these people myself, but from what you have said, and just knowing how people are..it’s much better to be really, really rigid with your boundaries now and not give her an inch (and with him too, as you’ve said yourself). It’s worse when you go into situations with looser boundaries, and then try to firm them up, you get met with all kinds of retaliation then. And from what you have said about him, it doesn’t sound like he’s going to let this woman control him or his behavior, if anything, he’ll get triggered by her trying to, that’s my guess.
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