cactuslady

I'm new to this board. I want to quit, but I am having real problems with the 12-step process since, from my viewpoint, it is all religious oriented and I have real problems with the concept of god or a higher power. I need help with this higher power concept. How can an agnostic/sometimes atheist work with a higher power concept? I can't change my basic philosophy. I can't believe in it.

KEEGANSDAD

I found it a problem also in the beggining
and I was told to go to the ocean and stop the next wave !

Guess What, The ocean is a Power greater than me !

Its just a beggining. !

Read the AA Big Book Online , Chapter to the Agnostics.

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE

The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.

Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous.

In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming “God-consciousness” followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook.

Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the “educational variety” because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.

Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it “God-consciousness.”

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.

We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”




Keegs Dad

thanxNA_f_ny

Quote:

I want to quit, but I am having real problems with the 12-step process since, from my viewpoint, it is all religious oriented and I have real problems with the concept of god or a higher power.

I'm sorry but your wrong. This is NOT a religious program. Your higher power is something loving and caring that is greater yourself. YOUR higher power is any thing that will keep YOU clean. When I first came into the program I used my kids as my higher power because I didnt feel there was a God since I lost my father to this disease. God stood for Good Orderly Direction for me at the time. Thats what is beautiful about this program, the sky, a horse, the ground, the dirt, the moon, anything can be YOUR higher power and the fact that we are not judged is amazing. You just have to be opened minded to having a higher power.

Good luck on finding YOUR higher power! :hugehug

cactuslady

Thanks to both of you. I will read the big book.

Phinneas

Cactus-- I too had a problem with the 12 steps at first. I tried and tried and tried to quit on my own or with other methods and I failed. So, I got to a place where I was WILLING to give AA a try. And you know what? It WORKS. It has worked for millions of people, why not me? Meetings are a place where there are other people who understand and who are helping me to get to the other side. So I urge you to put your reservations aside for a bit (90 days?), try it and see if it can work for you, too. As others have pointed out, your higher power can be anything you make it. It is not a religious program. All you need to be is Honest, OPEN, and Willing. You can do that, can't you?

Good luck!

jojo

Moontime

I had the same problems with a higher power and these 12-step fellowships were Cult-based religions. This is far from the truth, my sponsor would take me outside, that day it was raining, he said did you make the rain. I said "No", he said do you think this is power greater than yourself who can changes seasons? I agreed. I didn't change the seasons, from that point on I started to believing in something greater than myself. Today, my Higher Power or which I choose to call god has not released his anonymity to me. It is a great spirit, that takes native american beliefs, a little, taoism, mixed in with some buddhism beliefs. This is my god, my higher power today.

lonlion

Cactus; What about the concept that you have inner strength in yourself that you can tap into? You have used it in your life in other matters. Could you consider that YOUR Higher Power? Thats what it is. Reaching a higher level within your self, elevating yourself in that way.
Challenging yourself to be a better, stronger person. A person who loves themselves, and doesn't want to hurt themselves or others. You have power now, what you want to do is have higher power.

Could be a start
My thoughts and prayers to you
Love Diana

nutz

I was extreemly resentful towards a god of my understanding
at the beginning. Brimstones and hell fires.
If I was going to hell, I might as will go out in a blaze of glory.
Worst take some A-holes with me.

I had to duke it out with that big thing out in the cosmo somewhere
getting ready to strike me down with a bolt of heavenly lighting.lol
With all my anger and resentments out in the middle of nowhere.
It's was on. Me and you ...you freaken A-hole and F-u for letting
me be born and keeping me alive thou all this damn BS.
None of this , I'll trun my will and life over and grant me serenity crap.
Take my freaken life now becuase I can't stand this sh*t anymore.
FREAKEN JERK !!!!

I felt someting after that moment. Peace I belive it was.
Still confussed, scared and don't know wtf.

For some stupid reason. I chose a Yellow Happy Ball.
I was told i had a choice..
F-it ..I chose a Happy Ball. Happy I was not.
but it was something I wanted to be, and a damn ball can't hurt me.

Aa_vark

Hi Cactuslady,

Im Aaron, a recovering addict...

I think this wil help you -

step 2. We came to beleive that a power greater then ourselves could restore us to sanity.

I came to the twelve step meetings for help with my alcoholism and addiction. I came back because people there who had the same problem as me said they were staying sober, and i could too. They tell me that inorder to stay sober they couldnt do it without eachother. Meetings, staying intouch with eachother, learning how to work the steps from a sponser - someone who has long term sobriety and a program of recovery -

I found a group of people who no longer had the insanity of compulsive using, obsessive denial, who taught me that insanity is doing the same thing over and over - drinking - and expecting different results...

A group of people staying sober oneday at a time - most definately a higher power, for i could not do that by myself.... Ahhhh, a higher power.... a group of people staying sober!!!! G.O.D = a group of drunks..... Turning my will over to a Group Of Drunks -= fol;lowing the suggestions = Good Orderly Directions ... GOD.... Good Orderly Directions....

Thie group of people tells me that they are sober today with the twelve steps...

Group of Drunks, Good Orderly Directions... If I want what they have i am willing to go to any lengths to get it...

GOD Bless you...

Beleive me, you can stay sober

I am, because drinking brought me to my knees....

cactuslady

You guys are great! Your comments make a lot of sense. I was raised with the hell-brimstone, judgmental god. When I think of god -- that is all I can see as a god. Even though I am active in my church -- a rather liberal one -- I still have problems.

The comments you are making about the happy ball, the group, the support, the ability of working with others who have the same problems, -- and who can help you -- makes a lot of sense.

I am still struggling with one day -- let alone any more.

Thanks for your help.

exzim

Hi Cactuslady,
Maybe my two cents can help!
I grew up with war - a terrorist war - and organized religion was very involved in that war - and is with war - some horific things were done in the name of war. I really struggled with the God thing.
Finally I decided to call my higher power HP. But that didn't work - my computer is a HP! I had a very spiritual grandmother (her belief - mostly a mixture of eastern religions.) So I would pray to her in the beginning. I would talk to her, argue with her, yell at her at times! This gradually progressed to calling her just "G", then gradually over a long time I now call my higher power God. He/she is my friend, she wants the very best for me, she is watching out for me and is guiding me, I believe.
Take care of yourself - my thoughts and prayers are with you and your struggle.

Ama

I am having problems with the higher power too! This quote is great. I know that a divinity exists. My studies lead me to believe that must be!

Somebody told me last night at a meeting that it doesnt matter what one uses as the higher power. The leg of a chair! But I have come to believe that something has been caring for me. My actual survival and that of my childrens is proof of that. For me I am going to use my Guardian Angel and found that many at the meeting last night do the same. Angels afterall do have wings? and they lift us up when we cannot ourselves you see!

Not a guardian angel with an affiliation to any religion - more in the cosmic sense! Last nights meeting really helped me on this and so too has reading all these posts....

Thanks to all on this journey forward.....Luvs Ama