horrible end to day
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horrible end to day
Today my son's parent/teacher conference was at 5 pm.. I have a new job and drive 55 miles each way, but was able to attend, which was great. Walking in, the smell of rotten beer wafted across to me from my AH. My heart sank. After outpatient, he has fallen down at 100 days and now at 115 or whatever. I made it through the conference.
Our last agreement was that if he drank, he would be honest with me. That was what I asked. And that if he continued to lie about it, there would be separation of at least a day and possibly more. I admit I didn't have much of a relapse "plan" in place. I asked him twice if he had anything to tell me. "Like what?" he said. "I don't know what you're talking about". I told him I knew, and he confessed. That is not honesty. Thus, I asked him to leave for the night to either his parents' or a hotel. I told him this relationship is making me sick and I need some peace tonight. And I really do need it--I have a job where I can't handle my son's pickup after school, and AH does it. So I am deciding where I could work so I could be independent of AH's help. Also, AH was drinking around 11 am. The stench was bad, he denies it was more than a big bottle of beer, but I don't put any stock in that. Our son missed a ride home at 1 pm from a neighbor (school let out early, and he walked home). So another point I made to AH was: had the neighbor communicated that son was NOT picked up, you (AH) would have had to pick him up--and you would have possibly been over the limit. He did not like my point very much since his whole point was "but I haven't given him a ride home in 3 weeks since "neighbor" has been doing that". Well, sh*t happens and you may have to parent--maybe drinking at 11 am is a bad idea!
I feel cruel, because AH said "I was chickenshit, I should have just told you". He always says that, and says he is sorry. I told him I know he is sorry, but that it doesn't help anything. He tossed his debit card toward me, like I would take it to prevent him from buying alcohol. I told him that I can't be the police, that it's up to him. Still requested that he leave. Tomorrow he will be at the school for an event, and I told him to please arrive sober. Also, our son's teacher could def. have smelled the beer. Mortifying.
I hate this so much.
Our last agreement was that if he drank, he would be honest with me. That was what I asked. And that if he continued to lie about it, there would be separation of at least a day and possibly more. I admit I didn't have much of a relapse "plan" in place. I asked him twice if he had anything to tell me. "Like what?" he said. "I don't know what you're talking about". I told him I knew, and he confessed. That is not honesty. Thus, I asked him to leave for the night to either his parents' or a hotel. I told him this relationship is making me sick and I need some peace tonight. And I really do need it--I have a job where I can't handle my son's pickup after school, and AH does it. So I am deciding where I could work so I could be independent of AH's help. Also, AH was drinking around 11 am. The stench was bad, he denies it was more than a big bottle of beer, but I don't put any stock in that. Our son missed a ride home at 1 pm from a neighbor (school let out early, and he walked home). So another point I made to AH was: had the neighbor communicated that son was NOT picked up, you (AH) would have had to pick him up--and you would have possibly been over the limit. He did not like my point very much since his whole point was "but I haven't given him a ride home in 3 weeks since "neighbor" has been doing that". Well, sh*t happens and you may have to parent--maybe drinking at 11 am is a bad idea!
I feel cruel, because AH said "I was chickenshit, I should have just told you". He always says that, and says he is sorry. I told him I know he is sorry, but that it doesn't help anything. He tossed his debit card toward me, like I would take it to prevent him from buying alcohol. I told him that I can't be the police, that it's up to him. Still requested that he leave. Tomorrow he will be at the school for an event, and I told him to please arrive sober. Also, our son's teacher could def. have smelled the beer. Mortifying.
I hate this so much.
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clarity…….yikes...you must have been sooo uncomfortable at that conference.
You know that "lying" is part of the disease...…
I think that the following article, by Floyd P. Garrett, M.d., may be of great interest to you, right now....
Here is a link....
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
good job on maintaining boundaries. I do think that it is an excellent idea to look for job closer to home....driving those number of miles, every day, and trying to depend on an alcoholic for important things....will really wear you down. You must be exhausted!
I do think you will need to change some of your expectations for him....
Is he attending AA or any kind of program?
You know that "lying" is part of the disease...…
I think that the following article, by Floyd P. Garrett, M.d., may be of great interest to you, right now....
Here is a link....
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
good job on maintaining boundaries. I do think that it is an excellent idea to look for job closer to home....driving those number of miles, every day, and trying to depend on an alcoholic for important things....will really wear you down. You must be exhausted!
I do think you will need to change some of your expectations for him....
Is he attending AA or any kind of program?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,628
Originally Posted by clarity888 
After outpatient, he has fallen down at 100 days and now at 115 or whatever. I made it through the conference.
So to be clear, he drank after 100 days sober and drank again 5 days later?
One thing I think is important is to call a spade a spade. He is an alcoholic and he drank. Then he drank again 5 days later (and whenever else he hasn't bothered to mention).
Anyway, you are right, you absolutely can't depend on him for a minute when it comes to your child. I really hope you can find work closer to home, for both your child's sake and your own! It must be so stressful for you.
I feel cruel, because AH said "I was chickenshit, I should have just told you". He always says that, and says he is sorry.
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Thank you for the article, Dandylion. He goes to AA about 1-2 times per week. He saw a therapist a week ago who helped a lot--he is sorting through a major trauma/abuse issue that he'd never talked about until two weeks ago (he'd never told anyone). That therapist recommended Refuge Recovery, and I made big efforts to be home on time for him to attend it Monday, but he didn't. I told him when this abuse thing came up two weeks ago that he MUST work a program, and he must be truthful with me. After reading that article, I now wonder if I should be more understanding of his lies, but we all know that's hard. In short, yes, my expectations of him must change. I can't rely on him to pick up all slack while I drive all over the state for this well paying job and get home late many days. I hate to quit as a new grad and jobs are scarce, but I can ask if they will keep me on as a PRN for maybe 20 or 30 hours weekly. I never meant to apply for a job with this many hours, but the hiring person took my app for a PRN job and told me "this job is FT in two towns (instead of the one)". So I tried...but it's not going to work. Mango, about tomorrow, the problem is that I will be gone from 7 am until at least 7 pm for work. I won't even know if he is drinking or not until I get home. And then, I'm assuming he won't be honest, or maybe he'll stop for awhile again. I never really know, unless the stench is unbearable like today and at church two weeks ago. This is why working so far away seems like such a bad idea. I wanted to get 3 months in at this company so I could "have experience" and get a job locally, but it's just not seeming to work...
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Trailmix--thank you. Yes, he reached 100 days sober, and on that day he reacted to something stressful but that had been resolved by drinking a fifth of whiskey. Then around 15 days later (today), he was buying groceries and decided to buy "x" amount of beer as well and down it all by noonish in a parking lot and then he drove home where he works from home. He didn't anticipate needing to drive to get our son (luckily didn't have to), but he knew he'd have our son home w/early release around 1:30. Regarding why I felt cruel--mainly I mean that knowing the trauma he went through, I feel horrible having to mete out this consequence of him not telling me he fell off the wagon. I wonder if I should take a different approach since he's only recently admitted to this trauma, and not get angry for him smelling like a brewery and not admitting it to me (he is afraid of my reaction). Many ppl on SR learn to deal with lying, but I just can't take it, at least not yet. He has fatty liver disease and I know his health is very compromised. You make a good point too--knowing our son would be home, getting mad that he was drinking and reacting is not nec. cruel (though not "drunk", acc. to him--yeah right, w/that much stink).
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I understand how you got to the cruel description. You have a lot of empathy/sympathy/pity for him, whichever it is - I get that.
The alcoholic does not have control over their drinking.
He got lucky this time, he managed to control his drinking to x number of beers which didn't have him passed out on the floor, that's just a roll of the dice. Alcoholics can't control their drinking (as you already know) so it could have just as easily ended up with him being totally non-functioning drunk.
I think that is the crux of the matter here. If you downplay his behavior it becomes almost acceptable, that's not the case. You were protecting your child who has zero say in any of this and is completely defenseless. You did the right thing, in my opinion.
The alcoholic does not have control over their drinking.
He got lucky this time, he managed to control his drinking to x number of beers which didn't have him passed out on the floor, that's just a roll of the dice. Alcoholics can't control their drinking (as you already know) so it could have just as easily ended up with him being totally non-functioning drunk.
I think that is the crux of the matter here. If you downplay his behavior it becomes almost acceptable, that's not the case. You were protecting your child who has zero say in any of this and is completely defenseless. You did the right thing, in my opinion.
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clarity…..the reason that I sent you the link to the article about lying, is just for you to UNDERSTAND the dynamic of why it occurs. This can help YOU...because it can take down some of your own resentment and personalizing the lies......As in--you will know that it is not about you, at all...he is not lying to you....he is lying because he is controlled by his alcoholic voice that tells him, 24/7---"Protect me" "go ahead and sneak a drink--it will be o.k.".
It can decrease your bitterness and anger at him, if you understand what is going on...because, carrying that amount of anger and resentment is so draining for you. It is less stressful if you hate the disease, and not him.
I would like to say one thing, that you have brought to light....so many men keep their histories of abuse...and, especially, sexual abuse (you don't have to tell us) to themselves. And, they tell no one...not even their wives, in many cases. They are even more reluctant to tell about it, than women, in general. there is such a stigma in the male world about it....threatening to their sense of shame and their feelings about their manhood, etc. They are even afraid to tell therapists about it. So many turn to alcohol to deal with their feelings...and, over time...this leads to the addiction.
Having a group of other victims can help....there is a website that I will give to you, for male victims of abuse.....
If he stayed sober for 100 days--then he is obviously trying....good for him...I think that he could benefit from going up to an AA meeting per day....especially, for a while.....
None of this changes what you must do for yourself, however....you do need to do whatever you can to make life easier for you, in every way that you can....
Here is the website for the organization for male abuse victims....RAINN
https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexua...t-men-and-boys
It can decrease your bitterness and anger at him, if you understand what is going on...because, carrying that amount of anger and resentment is so draining for you. It is less stressful if you hate the disease, and not him.
I would like to say one thing, that you have brought to light....so many men keep their histories of abuse...and, especially, sexual abuse (you don't have to tell us) to themselves. And, they tell no one...not even their wives, in many cases. They are even more reluctant to tell about it, than women, in general. there is such a stigma in the male world about it....threatening to their sense of shame and their feelings about their manhood, etc. They are even afraid to tell therapists about it. So many turn to alcohol to deal with their feelings...and, over time...this leads to the addiction.
Having a group of other victims can help....there is a website that I will give to you, for male victims of abuse.....
If he stayed sober for 100 days--then he is obviously trying....good for him...I think that he could benefit from going up to an AA meeting per day....especially, for a while.....
None of this changes what you must do for yourself, however....you do need to do whatever you can to make life easier for you, in every way that you can....
Here is the website for the organization for male abuse victims....RAINN
https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexua...t-men-and-boys
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by dandylion
clarity…..the reason that I sent you the link to the article about lying, is just for you to UNDERSTAND the dynamic of why it occurs. This can help YOU...because it can take down some of your own resentment and personalizing the lies......As in--you will know that it is not about you, at all...he is not lying to you....he is lying because he is controlled by his alcoholic voice that tells him, 24/7---"Protect me" "go ahead and sneak a drink--it will be o.k.".
It can decrease your bitterness and anger at him, if you understand what is going on...because, carrying that amount of anger and resentment is so draining for you. It is less stressful if you hate the disease, and not him.
I would like to say one thing, that you have brought to light....so many men keep their histories of abuse...and, especially, sexual abuse (you don't have to tell us) to themselves. And, they tell no one...not even their wives, in many cases. They are even more reluctant to tell about it, than women, in general. there is such a stigma in the male world about it....threatening to their sense of shame and their feelings about their manhood, etc. They are even afraid to tell therapists about it. So many turn to alcohol to deal with their feelings...and, over time...this leads to the addiction.
Having a group of other victims can help....there is a website that I will give to you, for male victims of abuse.....
If he stayed sober for 100 days--then he is obviously trying....good for him...I think that he could benefit from going up to an AA meeting per day....especially, for a while.....
None of this changes what you must do for yourself, however....you do need to do whatever you can to make life easier for you, in every way that you can....
Here is the website for the organization for male abuse victims....RAINN
https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexua...t-men-and-boys
It can decrease your bitterness and anger at him, if you understand what is going on...because, carrying that amount of anger and resentment is so draining for you. It is less stressful if you hate the disease, and not him.
I would like to say one thing, that you have brought to light....so many men keep their histories of abuse...and, especially, sexual abuse (you don't have to tell us) to themselves. And, they tell no one...not even their wives, in many cases. They are even more reluctant to tell about it, than women, in general. there is such a stigma in the male world about it....threatening to their sense of shame and their feelings about their manhood, etc. They are even afraid to tell therapists about it. So many turn to alcohol to deal with their feelings...and, over time...this leads to the addiction.
Having a group of other victims can help....there is a website that I will give to you, for male victims of abuse.....
If he stayed sober for 100 days--then he is obviously trying....good for him...I think that he could benefit from going up to an AA meeting per day....especially, for a while.....
None of this changes what you must do for yourself, however....you do need to do whatever you can to make life easier for you, in every way that you can....
Here is the website for the organization for male abuse victims....RAINN
https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexua...t-men-and-boys
Lies hurt - even when they come from a compulsive, uncontrollable liar.
Trust me, I've dealt with dementia/senility in my parents/grandparents and even their distortions of realities (aka lies) hurt a bit -- even though you "know" that its just their own warped brain that is playing cruel tricks on them.
Active alcoholic = Compulsive Liar. Period. The article explains the "why" of the lying (from the alcoholic's viewpoint); but it does NOT state that those being lied to should just, ya know, roll with it. In fact, I think it's pretty clear about the devastating effect such constant lying has on the alcoholic's OTHER relationships (that is, other than with the booze).
In fact, they should rename "addiction" - any addiction - "The Lying Disease."
And that disease has a corrosive effect on everyone surrounding the active alcoholic which, like all rust and corrosion, weakens the bonds between them.
MCE Saint
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Thank you dandylion. The article really does help me accept what lengths this disease makes the person go to. You are right that understanding it that way can help me w/my own anger. MCE--last night in bed, I was thinking about how many diseases don't create lying, having my own pity party. It's painful and scary in a primal way to watch someone become a compulsive liar. But there are tools and ways to look at this. I looked at Paths to Recovery, step 1, and every question at the end applied to me and my inability to accept his/our powerlessness. I will refer him to that website. Malesurvivor.org is another good one. Today or tomorrow I have to make big job changes so he can work a program. Recovery aside, it was too far to have m own life anyway. I'm scared of career suicide, but first things first. I can do home health around here fairly easily and make my own schedule (from what I've researched); and God willing that I'm not jinxing myself for saying/assuming that, but have to step into the unknown.
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Clarity, just wanted to say that I so understand where you are and I've been there too - so many times. I remember several mornings at church where we were down front (no back row Baptists here; just alcoholics! LOL) and the smell of my AH's alcohol breath was just sickening and embarrassing. Open houses, plays, parent meetings...Of course the teacher smelled it!
My pleadings to my husband were the same: just be honest! The lies, oh, the lies. They were sometimes more difficult to bear than the person the alcohol turned him into. I've sent him away for the night (and sometimes he's stayed away for days) while he was on his benders. His parents have a whole upstairs that they are more than willing to let him occupy and drink to his heart's content.
Your situation with your job and son is a difficult one, but I think you know the answer - - something is going to have to change because AH can't be trusted to pick him up/bring him home/be sober to take care of him. I see that you're in home health care - - lucky for you, that is a career field that is thriving as baby boomers get older but still desire their independence! I don't want to "blue sky" it for you, but I am optimistic that you can do just what you said: work closer to home, make your own schedule, and most importantly, be there for your son.
We're all here for you whenever you need to vent or just need a little support. ((hugs)) I'm putting you in my prayers.
My pleadings to my husband were the same: just be honest! The lies, oh, the lies. They were sometimes more difficult to bear than the person the alcohol turned him into. I've sent him away for the night (and sometimes he's stayed away for days) while he was on his benders. His parents have a whole upstairs that they are more than willing to let him occupy and drink to his heart's content.
Your situation with your job and son is a difficult one, but I think you know the answer - - something is going to have to change because AH can't be trusted to pick him up/bring him home/be sober to take care of him. I see that you're in home health care - - lucky for you, that is a career field that is thriving as baby boomers get older but still desire their independence! I don't want to "blue sky" it for you, but I am optimistic that you can do just what you said: work closer to home, make your own schedule, and most importantly, be there for your son.
We're all here for you whenever you need to vent or just need a little support. ((hugs)) I'm putting you in my prayers.
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Yes Sushi...the lies are hard to get over. I am just back at Step 1 of Al Anon realizing that powerlessness leads to lies, and it's not a personal, maybe not a character thing. It sounds like your situation possibly improved, maybe the days of smelling stale alcohol are less frequent I hope? Thank you for putting me in your prayers and being optimistic..def. helps...(((((hugs)))).
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