AutumnMama

I finally made an appointment for marriage/couples counseling for next Monday. Part of me is excited to continue to move things forward (whatever that means!)--another part of me is nervous it's going to be immediately obvious that there is no "fixing" this relationship.

What should I expect for a first appointment? Do you hash out the whole history of why you're there?

I was going to bring up my recent discovery of the Russian-ordered benzos in a therapy session. I think it will give myself more of a chance of not being steam-rolled by him. This prob wouldn't happen in the first session, would it? I'm pretty sure he's going to tell me that they are old and he found the pill blister packages while cleaning out an old suitcase or something.

My husband seems excited about going, at least.

Mango212

Hi AutumnMama,

It seems like your expectations are in good places: it's one step on the journey, not to expect big issues to be solved quickly and opening lines of communication.

I had a few counseling sessions with my husband during early sobriety periods. It was very beneficial for me, and in that it was nurturing for my marriage in becoming more of my own advocate.

Good luck! One piece of advice I was given that helped greatly is to make other plans for the day that were outside my normal routine, before the appointment and for later. This helped take pressure and expectations off and allowed for new self-care habits.

dandylion

AutumMama…..I see t hat you and your husband have gone to therapists, in the past....(one for yourself and one that you share with him)…..so, I think you will find the first visit, not much different than those.....mostly, introductions...and getting a feel for the therapist as he/she gets a feeling for the two of you....
Might be some general questions....like "What brought you here".....or, "What are your goals for therapy"...….
If it is a one hour session, if will feel like only 15minutes....before, "Time is up"....lol...

I think, that, in marital therapy.....remember that the marriage, itself, is the client...not either individual partner.....

atalose

I truly do not want to be the negative nelly here, I’m always hoping for the best for everyone but……

If he is in active addiction, which you believe he is after discovering those benzo’s, of course he’s excited to be going to marriage counseling, it gives him breathing room to continue feeding his addiction all while trying to prove to you he doesn’t have one. All the focus is on “us” “we” “family” and not all shining on his addiction.

I don’t want you to set your expectations high with this. I also would not blindside him with your discovery of the benzo’s at therapy. That should be something you talk about first and when it gets you nowhere, then bring it up in the counseling session. I think you would want to share with this new counselor your past history of therapy, his addiction and how that has affected the marriage.

dandylion

I think that alalose makes a very good point.....Most marriage therapists won't take a couple if one is involved in their addiction.....for several very good reasons.....one of them being, that it can actually be harmful to the non-addicted spouse. The playing field will not be level.....

LovePeaceSushi

I went to marriage counseling a few times with my AH. Sometimes it was hard bringing up issues with my AH sitting right there and he would pout afterwards, like I had betrayed him or like the therapist and I were ganging up on him. I would suggest emailing your therapist beforehand with a general description of your issues with the marriage and/or your husband. That way, you can get it all out there beforehand (without your husband sitting right there) and the therapist will be able to see through the bologna if he tries to downplay the situation. Just a thought.

I know when my AH was seeing a male counselor at our church, the counselor brought me in for a joint session after 2 private sessions because he could tell my AH wasn't giving him the complete picture. I cut through the BS really quickly. This was a year ago, and at the end of that session the counselor was suggesting to my AH that he needed to get treatment somewhere. AH wasn't ready to take that step yet, so he quit seeing the church counselor.

That being said, I agree with what atalose said. Don't get your hopes up too much. He may not really be ready or he may just be buying time. It took my husband a whole year after the church counselor to hit bottom and be receptive and genuinely willing to get help. This is a step in the right direction, though! I wish you two the best. ((hugs))

AutumnMama

Yeah I have asked both (lol) of my therapists about whether or not it is worth it to go if he is in active addition... and they both keep saying it's just a way to see what the potential of the relationship is, and kind of force whatever is going to happen to happen sooner rather than later. Speeding up the process, I guess.

I also specifically asked my therapist for a recommendation for a person who could see through any BS and she recommended the lady that we're seeing Monday.

I think it will be helpful for at least to help me get some things off my chest and out into the open. I have issues communicating with him on my own due to just being scared. Having someone to help facilitate the discussion will help.

I honestly don't know what he can even do to earn my trust back. I have a bodily reaction of anxiety when I can sense he is on something, and until that is gone, I'm not sure what the point of anything is.

dandylion

One comment----with marital counseling, the therapist can't be colluding with just one partner...so, if something is emailed about one partner...the therapist is obligated to share it, in session, with the other partner....

atalose

What exactly is it that you are scared to communicate to him that you want/need someone to help facilitate that?

FireSprite

I wasn't prepared for how fast the time would go, like dandy said. So I personally wasn't prepared to manage all of my triggered emotions on my own, afterward. Sometimes I didn't even trigger until later because there was too much to process in that small window of time.

I found that on marriage counseling nights I needed to up my level of self care/love. Comfort food, restorative yoga, whatever. I was always so exhausted & just wiped out completely after sessions, no matter how well they went.

Ours had us fill out questionnaires separately (same questions, just separate responses) & we used that as a springboard for our 1st session. It helped to figure out what we each expected out of counseling, why we each agreed to go, how we independently labeled the problems we had, etc.

AutumnMama

OpheliaKatz

This is just my experience and it may not be yours, but I had a horrendous experience with marriage/couples counseling with an active addict. In the end, the counselor ended up colluding with my ex-spouse to abuse me. The more I was advised to detach, the worse the abuse from my spouse became, and the more the counselor blamed me for him using more drugs (because detaching unhinged him, which is what he said, when he called her crying and saying he could not come to therapy because I was expecting too much from him... and he would do this even if the only thing I had "expected" of him that day was to wake up in the middle of the afternoon so that he could make it to the appointment with me on time). After each session, if I had expressed any dissatisfaction with the relationship at all, my spouse who wait until we were alone and scream at me: if I had not spent the entire session saying that we were a strong unit and we could get over anything together and I was 100% happy with his treatment of me, there would be adverse consequences for me. If I had preempted my complaints by first telling him what I was going to discuss in session, he would refused to go with me, wait until I was out of the house, then he would call the counselor on the phone and complain that he was sick and I was trying to force him to go to sessions -- I was, apparently, "controlling", just like his mother (who, during his childhood, was routinely beaten to a pulp by his "emasculated" father... however my then-spouse said that she had "instigated" all the fights and was "responsible").

When the whole marriage went pear-shaped, I made an appointment with the supervisor of our counselor, who said that she wasn't made aware that I was in an abusive marriage, and then she yelled at me because my then-spouse had been using illegal substances and "didn't I know that I was in a situation that was illegal?!?" I was so confused that I lay in bed crying for months... then I finally started to see a domestic violence service and it was illuminating. I didn't understand emotional abuse. I do now.

In the beginning, and for a number of years afterwards, my ex was an okay person -- I didn't think he was abusive... but I also didn't think he was an addict. He was charming, sweet... there was something about him that was like a little boy.

So that's my experience. I realize it's nothing like your marriage. I can't tell anyone what they should or should not do about their relationship. I can only tell you what happened to me... and what I feel you should do (based on my own experiences/biases). In your case, I feel that you know your spouse and you know if the counseling will be beneficial or not. If you think he is ready to work on the relationship, then by all means, go! If he is already trying to work out issues with you -- and he is doing this of his own free will (not because you suggested it), I think counseling will work. If he is still in denial about anything (his addiction or ability to control it or his treatment of you), if you think that he's still in the early stages of recovery, I feel that recovery is going to take up 100% of his energy; in which case you might as well just continue with your individual counseling because going to couples counseling with a spouse who can't do the work is like going to counseling with a garden gnome.

OpheliaKatz

But if you bring this up in counseling with him... how do you think he would react afterwards? Relationships counseling relies on both parties being open and honest during the sessions... but you said you can't trust him. Can you trust him to be open and honest with you? How will that change with an extra person (a stranger) in the room? If it's because you think you will feel safer disclosing things with another person there... bear in mind that you are not taking the counselor home with you.

I sound like such an alarmist and I am totally aware that on the boards, I sometimes come off as Debbie Downer, but I was also in a position where I was afraid of saying things to my ex (and then decided to go to counseling with him).

Also, if he is trying to be sober now (but is still using), is he psychologically ready for your thoughts on his behavior? The friends and family of addicts often carry a lot of resentment. I am not blaming you for this, it happens, it happened to me (in fact, I am still furious, why wouldn't I be?). If you want to use the sessions to air your resentments (to talk about why he is wrong, what he is doing wrong), the couples counseling is unlikely to help you in any way -- this sort of counseling often focuses on how both of you can work on the marriage, not just him. You may feel insulted by the idea that you are being asked to do more for the marriage (god knows I was! I was already doing so much!)

On the other hand, if you have a marriage where this type of sharing already happens... and you just need extra guidance, maybe it will work.

SaveHer

another part of me is nervous it's going to be immediately obvious that there is no "fixing" this relationship.

This is exactly what happened to me. AXBF spent both of our therapy sessions talking absolute nonsense, claiming that I had neglected our daughter because she was crying and I didn't immediately comfort her and asserting that he didn't have to contribute anything financially to our daughter's care because I was the breadwinner. He was basically putting on a little show, and probably drunk at both sessions, and the therapist saw right through him. At the end of the second session, she told me, "I've only had to do this one other time in my entire career, but I won't be able to help you. I can refer you to another therapist if you like." I immediately broke down.

It was a very powerful moment, seeing him so clearly through someone else's eyes. I am so grateful to that therapist. It was exactly the wake-up call I needed. On the way home, I told him I was done, and now, 15 months later, my daughter and I are living our lives without lies, manipulation, emotional abuse, resentment, neglect, and anxiety.

Something becoming immediately obvious might not be such a bad thing...

Wheelsup

I did not find marriage counseling helpful because, frankly, I needed significant help for co-dependency and he needed a lot of help for his addiction.

Things didn't start to get better for me until I started seeing an addiction therapist and working on co-dependency. My therapist won't do couples counseling until the addict has been sober for a year. Unfortunately, we ended up divorced because he wasn't/isn't serious about recovery. (Plus, there was a host of other problems, mainly repeated affairs.)

I do think therapy/counseling is useful ... but its got to be with the right therapist and the right problem needs to be treated. I really wish I had gotten help for the co-dependency part of being married to an alcoholic years and years ago...I really think things would be different. But, I just didn't know.

Seren

Marriage counseling during my first marriage did not, unfortunately, help us. It did, however, speed that train to the divorce. The ultimate objective of marriage counseling is to save a marriage if it can be saved. But it can't if one partner doesn't put in as much work and effort as the other. That's what happened to me. I wanted to save the marriage, my ex did not.

atalose

A relationship without trust is like a cell phone with no service, all you can do is play games.

Trust is the very basis of any relationship and without it there really can be no relationship except a toxic one.

Do you fear this relationship is not going to work? If so, could that be the reason you fear telling him how you feel or what you want and need? Afraid that if you say the wrong thing or don’t apologize, the marriage will be over and you are not ready for that to happen yet?

FireSprite

You know how I love a good metaphor/simile - thank you so much for this!! What an excellent way to word it.

AutumnMama

I love the cell phone comment And it is so true.

I think I am struggling with ending the relationship. I mean, for all intents and purposes, we are separated. We don't live together. I really don't talk to him a whole lot. But there's still a part of me who wants the "old" him to come back and we could be a happy family. I just don't know where that guy went--is he on drugs? does he have a personality disorder? was he just never there to begin with?

My therapist asked me where I saw myself in 5 years, or how I imagined my life. I started crying because I realized I didn't see him in it. I see my son and I as a little happy duo. Maybe I've been watching too much Gilmore Girls? hah. But even saying that, I'm not sure I'm 100% ready to let go. I hope these sessions at least help me make up my mind.

But I fear communication with him because it never makes me feel better--I always end up feeling worse. I used to be able to go to him with my anxieties and fears and he would non-judgmentally make me feel better. But he isn't that person anymore--I told him my therapist suggested some SSRIs for the short term for my anxiety and he's thrown it back at me, more than once, to try to point out that *I* am the one with the problem. He's just miserable and trying to get me to own all his misery, which I was happy to do before. But I'm not doing it anymore.

atalose

.

That’s a very positive sign for you. I think the more you build that inner strength the less anxiety you will discover you have.

I think that’s what kept me stuck in an unhappy relationship for so long, waiting for that other guy to show back up because the one abusing pills was a real @aa hole. It’s funny how we do know deep down that the relationship is over yet we continue trying to water a dead flower.

You’ll know when you have had enough in your own time when it feels right for you.