Awal

So...we have a bottle of Jack D in the kitchen cupboard. This is the 'out in the open drink' which AH probably thinks l am monitoring (hes right). But its come to my attention that after l go to bed each night he is going out into the back garden briefly as l can see the the conservatory door open from the bathroom window. Last night l made sure both inner and outer conservatory doors were locked before going to bed. I went in bathroom and waited. Sure enough 2 mins later l saw the outer door open. Couldn't see him though. So l went downstairs for a glass if water... he was in lounge...i went in kitchen and l shouted "do you know the outer conservatory door is open?" (the inner one was closed) he said "no, l didnt realise"(lying pig) so l went through to lock it (again) and he came through to the kitchen...he said " you may as well leave it open so the dog can go out if he wants" but l said there is no need cos the dog is asleep.
Ive been awake most of the night wondering where his stash is hidden..it has to be close by....he hasnt touched the JD in the cupboard so it 'looks' like he didnt have drink last night. Yeah....he takes me for a fool. He can drink what the hell he wants but its the blatant LIES that get to me!

Mango212

Hi Awal,

Does it matter?

Alcoholics drink. It's a given, just like fish swim in water.

This disease is illogical. So is our own recovery from the insanity of it. Good luck with getting some sleep tonight. Tomorrow is a new day.

What helps you with getting past checking up on him?

suki44883

The more you try to monitor him, the more this stuff is going to "get to you." If you have decided to stay in the marriage and allow him to do what he wants and you do what you want, you are going to have to let go of the monitoring. Otherwise, you will continue to be frustrated and angry when you catch him doing what you know he is going to do.

Leelee168

Hi Awal,

A lot of us did the monitoring thing. I used to take pictures, after marking off consumption of various bottles with sharpies. As someone else pointed out, all that did was make me feel worse. Plus, I had to do it in the morning before work and I was already getting up at 5 am to take care of pets and try to do what I called “preventive safety” before leaving for work at 8 am. It was exhausting and, truth was, he had bottles stashed everywhere. Garage, basement, toolbox, car, truck, his bathroom sink vanity, bedroom and bathroom closets, linen cabinet, among the wine in the wine rack. It was everywhere but I didn’t know that until he was gone and I was cleaning things out.

I guess that when I was taking pictures I was trying to come to terms with the fact that, yes indeed, his drinking was out of hand. I thought if I could give him rational evidence of his drinking he would stop. I didn’t know that wasn’t how it worked.

Tonight, you will get some sleep. Take care.

Awal

Its just that he promised not to hide alcohol from me again and l told him one more 'find' and l will know for sure. I think l have the right for HIM to know that I know what he is. Then we can stop all the ***** footing around the subject and he can do what the hell he wants just as l will!

Awal

I just need concrete evidence for my own sanity. For some reason finding another hidden bottle will do that. Thanks for replying

Awal

Its not the booze so much as the lying...l want to illustrate how easily he lies to me. I know what's going on...but l want to prove to him that he is the liar he denies he is.

SparkleKitty

Why is it more important that he accepts he is a liar than that you do?

dandylion

Awal..….alcoholics don't drink "at you. It really doesn't have anything to do with you. They drink because they have the disease of alcoholism....and there is an extreme compulsion to drink. Once drinking, there is no ability to just stop. That is what separates a non-alcoholic from an actual alcoholic.
The alcoholic lives inside their own "bubble"....inside their head.
There is a war going on, inside their head, at all times...24/7.....telling them to drink....that it will be o.k. Unless they go into recovery---that voice never stops. Sometimes, softer, sometimes, louder--but always there.
It has nothing to do with you--it is about the disease. The disease doesn't care a twit about you. The only goal of the disease is to get the alcoholic to drink.

Same thing about the "lying". All alcoholics lie about their drinking. ALL of them. They will lie with a drink in their hands, as they raise it to their lips---lol..I have seen them do it.
Why? Not because they want to hurt you...but, to protect their ability to be able to drink. It is an overwhelming compulsion. Please realize that not drinking seems incomprehensible to the alcoholic---like telling a fish to give up water. It feels like a death to them. Naturally, they will lie, if they have to...or keep an emergency stash, if they need to....whatever they need to do to satisfy the disease.
They are also, in denial...because the denial is how they cope....if they didn't have denial...they couldn't drink. It is an integral part of the disease.
By the way, he isn't a "lying pig"---he is a person with a disease that has him in it's grip. I don't know him...but, I doubt that he is a pig of a person--if he was, why are you spending your life with him...?

I know that this is probably hard for you to wrap your head around--because you are not an alcoholic. You can't possibly know what it feels like, inside of his head. Just like his denial makes it hard, for him, to understand how this is making you feel....

People lie for all kinds of reasons, depending on the person or the circumstance.
For example---imagine that you were, literally, on the edge of starvation...and your survival was in question--you would lie about food, if it helped you to get more food. You would also hide food.
If you were without water in the desert, you would do anything---anything to get some water. That is what the alcoholic is up against. It feels like life or death to them.

I can tell you, from my own experience, that there is no amount of evidence that you can collect to convince him that he is a "liar".....You could film him hiding it and drinking it---it won't do anything to stop the compulsion inside of his head...or, his denial. Your searching won't change anything, either. Even if you found all of h is stash---you won't feel any better.
He knows he is hiding and drinking. You know he is hiding and drinking.
His alcoholism is known.


I get it...that you assume that logic will open his eyes and that he will automatically "fly straight".....No. Alcoholism doesn't rely on or use logic. It is a fool's errand to try to influence an alcoholic by logic.


I hope that you can come to understand...or, accept, what I am trying to say....otherwise, you will just stay a ball of simmering anger...and, it will drive you Krazy…..


I am giving you the link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the oved ones. There are more than 100 of them...enough for you to digest one every single day. I hope you will do this...because there is soooo much to learn,
Knowledge is power.


Here is the link....(these articles are located in the stickies, just above the threads)….

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)

dawnrising

Awal - I totally get wanting to prove it to him about the lying, but its not going to give you the closure you are after you won't ever get that from him unless he is sober. Most likely you will find the stash and he will either say thats not mine or oh no I forgot about that hiding place, that was from months and months ago I wouldn't dare lie to you now. He drinks because he's an alcoholic and he will continue to drink. If you find one stash he will move it, if you control the house he will hide it in his car, a park or drink to excess before he comes home. The "stash" will simply change locations while he will continue to lie. You know he's lying can you peacefully live with that knowledge or do you want something more?

FireSprite

I think this is exactly why ultimatums suck & learning to rely more on boundaries is a win-win. I'm always left frustrated when I rely on ultimatums, but with boundaries I can feel measured progress. (even in dealing with crossed boundaries)

His admission and/or acceptance of his behavior doesn't change anything you already know or your ability to change things on your side.

So, you get to be right. You're already right. You already know that. Now what? It's frustrating, or at least it feels that way to me when I've been stuck in this loop...

You don't want his "permission" - you want him to have a shift of perspective & "see" things clearly enough to have accountability & acceptance. You want him to change & if he was ready for that, you wouldn't be upset about *this* today.

I'm sorry, these situations just plain suck.

BlownOne

As a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you that I didn't give a rats a** if my ex knew I was lying or not. I didn't care. It wasn't going to change me if she called me out on it. I would shrug it off and say "ok. I'm a liar. Would you like a cookie?" and then go find another drink. Alcoholics don't think the way normies think. Hoping that you can shame an alcoholic into honesty is a fool's errand, IMHO.

Ladybird579

I did this looking for stash, monitoring how much a bottle went down thing for a very long time and it was crazy making. I found out in the end for every bottle I "found" ( cos he'd let me) there were another 20 I never saw. Even if you did find him out he'd lie some more. He'd deny they were his, say they were from ages ago...whatever come to mind to get you off his back.

Whatever he does it is up to you to decide if this is the life you want? Ultimately he won't change his ways. You already know he lies and he is NEVER going to admit he lies to you. You do not have to put up with his lies tho. You can walk away from them anytime you want.

Awal

Because then he will see he cannot fool me like he currently thinks he is.

FireSprite

That's not true. You are making assumptions about what goes on inside his mind.

He can say whatever you want to hear without believing a breath of it. Him SAYING something doesn't equal an understanding of it. He can tell you that you're right & not believe it for a second.

If he COULD understand, you'd be having different conversations.

dandylion

Awal.....suppose you do find his stash and place it on a table , in front of him...and say...."There, I found you were hiding a bottle and drinking from it, so you didn't fool me, on bit."......exactly, what do you expect will happen, at that point?

There is, also, the option of telling him straight to his face, when he is sober.....
"You haven't fooled me--I know that you are drinking a lot more than your are admitting to me. I know that you are hiding your liquor and drinking after I go to bed....because I saw you."...…..that is even easier than the cat and mouse exercise.


lol...I get the feeling that you don't believe those of us who have been through all of this.....and, you strongly believe that you can logic or shame or guilt him into stopping.


Here are some more likely responses that you might expect, after you confront him with a mountain of evidence.....


1. He will deny---like dawnrising said---"That is an old bottle". "It isn't mine".
"I forgot it was there, from last year".

2. He might break down in sorrow and tears and say that, yes, he is a "lying pig" (your words)..and that he is going to change his ways and it won't happen again, and that he will never lie about his drinking again. And, he might even try to white knuckle it for a little while, and, then go back to hiding and drinking, again.....because the alcoholic voice, in his brain will be pushing him....

I think that this might be the most likely....


3. He might (depending on his personality)….feel threatened and humiliated, and get really angry....and, maybe, call you a controlling *itch.


What, exactly are you expecting, after you present the evidence?

SparkleKitty

Okay. But that won't make him care whether you are fooled or not fooled.

BlownOne

Sparklekitty is dead on.
I doubt very much if he cares weather or not he's fooling you. The person he's trying to fool is himself. He more than likely doesn't care at all if he's getting away with the sneaking drinks as long as he can drink. Alcoholics are not good at honesty. Most of all with themselves. Honesty isn't a priority. When I was still drinking, the only person I cared who believed my lies was me. Lying to ourselves makes the mental acrobatics necessary to maintain the illusion of control possible. Nothing else matters.

PeacefulWater12

Sorry but in my experience both as a spouse of an AH and as a RA myself, A's don't care!

A's think in a different way to normies.

I am sorry you are going through this. You sound exhausted and frantic.

snitch

Wow! I am a (newly) recovering alcoholic and everything you have said here is spot on. In fact reading this was in fact an eye opener of the type of behaviour I was engaging in because I wanted/needed/wanted to drink!!