Is He or She an Addict First? Or a Narcissist First?
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Is He or She an Addict First? Or a Narcissist First?
Reading a very interesting article about this at moment, particularly because I have and still do struggle to comprehend at times how someone can have no empathy or responsibility for their actions. My friend 🙄 who I thought I knew, would not have been so unfeeling, although thinking back he did seem to be able to get over previous gf in his life very nonchalantly (red flag, but I was going to be different). I now believe he is a narcissist.
I am looking after my side of the street now, but researching this stuff helps me.
Apparently answering yes to any 1 of the following questions means they are dealing with narcissism as well as possible addiction. I can answer yes to all 5 about him!!!!
As your partner overcomes his or her addiction, are the two of you still feeling distant?
Does your partner announce that they’ve made “the most progress of anyone at AA” instead of sharing with you their vulnerable feelings, like sadness, or loneliness, or fear?
Does your partner show a pattern of exploitation, entitlement, and empathy impairment (triple E), the hallmark of pathological narcissism, even after they stop using?
Does their emotional sharing feel empty or shallow, fueled largely by 12-step jargon instead of genuine remorse or sadness for the pain they’ve caused?
Are they secretive about their treatment experience, as though "you couldn’t possibly understand what it’s like unless you’ve been there?”
When I asked his in the week post recovery about how he was feeling, he said I'd rather share that with my rehab friends, you wouldn't understand! When I asked him if he blamed me for walking out on him that night, he reeled off a big long AA jargon statement about past being over and future not yet written etc etc. He talked of setting up an NA meeting in his area!!!!! In his first week out of rehab.
He ticks every box. No empathy, apology or anything.
You live and learn. I will recognise it if it ever shows up again, I am determined to.
I am looking after my side of the street now, but researching this stuff helps me.
Apparently answering yes to any 1 of the following questions means they are dealing with narcissism as well as possible addiction. I can answer yes to all 5 about him!!!!
As your partner overcomes his or her addiction, are the two of you still feeling distant?
Does your partner announce that they’ve made “the most progress of anyone at AA” instead of sharing with you their vulnerable feelings, like sadness, or loneliness, or fear?
Does your partner show a pattern of exploitation, entitlement, and empathy impairment (triple E), the hallmark of pathological narcissism, even after they stop using?
Does their emotional sharing feel empty or shallow, fueled largely by 12-step jargon instead of genuine remorse or sadness for the pain they’ve caused?
Are they secretive about their treatment experience, as though "you couldn’t possibly understand what it’s like unless you’ve been there?”
When I asked his in the week post recovery about how he was feeling, he said I'd rather share that with my rehab friends, you wouldn't understand! When I asked him if he blamed me for walking out on him that night, he reeled off a big long AA jargon statement about past being over and future not yet written etc etc. He talked of setting up an NA meeting in his area!!!!! In his first week out of rehab.
He ticks every box. No empathy, apology or anything.
You live and learn. I will recognise it if it ever shows up again, I am determined to.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Could be narcissism. Could be the high horse of early recovery
I find that trying to analyze addicted folks is not a good idea, and a complete waste of time. Too much real estate in my head - I am too busy for this. They behave appropriately - they get interaction from me. Anything that harms me - bye 👋
But yes, both definitely go together
I find that trying to analyze addicted folks is not a good idea, and a complete waste of time. Too much real estate in my head - I am too busy for this. They behave appropriately - they get interaction from me. Anything that harms me - bye 👋
But yes, both definitely go together
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i think this is just a wee bit too global of an assessment.....people in early recovery are not themselves.....most are in a fog, can't find their @ss with both hands and a map, run thru emotions about every 12 minutes. many early recovering addicts become 90 day wonders.....they can't yet Walk the Talk, but man can they Talk the Talk. they've sat in enough meetings to remember a few quotes from the book, a few bumper sticker statements, and how to SOUND good. then about day 92 they are a puddle of goo and fall into despondency.
it is also quite TRUE that one who has not been to treatment and is not a former addict could not possibly fathom what that experience is like. anymore than i have any idea how it feels to jump out of a perfectly good airplane with some string and cloth on my back. or riding the winning Triple Crown horse.
nothing prior that you shared about your "friend" showed the slightest hint of true narcissism. just a confused guy messed up on coke. imho.
it is also quite TRUE that one who has not been to treatment and is not a former addict could not possibly fathom what that experience is like. anymore than i have any idea how it feels to jump out of a perfectly good airplane with some string and cloth on my back. or riding the winning Triple Crown horse.
nothing prior that you shared about your "friend" showed the slightest hint of true narcissism. just a confused guy messed up on coke. imho.
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Is he a narcissist? Unless he visits a psychiatrist for a full mental wellness check, hard to say. People with narcissistic personality disorder don't generally think there is anything wrong with them, so research is mostly done on inmates.
Everyone is on the narcissism scale (yes, even you!) we all possess narcissism to greater and lesser degrees, healthy degrees and not.
What is described in those five questions sounds to me like alcoholism. As in, it could just well be alcoholism. I bet you could appear to get over a relationship quite quickly if you used cocaine and alcohol to mask all your feelings too.
I'm not saying he is or isn't, of course. All i'm saying is that you don't want to think the world is full of people with NPD! The other thing is, generally, people with NPD don't necessarily appear to have NPD. One of the trademarks is "mirroring" other people. But certainly doesn't hurt to be aware.
When you meet someone and something appears to be "off", that gut feeling. Follow that.
Everyone is on the narcissism scale (yes, even you!) we all possess narcissism to greater and lesser degrees, healthy degrees and not.
What is described in those five questions sounds to me like alcoholism. As in, it could just well be alcoholism. I bet you could appear to get over a relationship quite quickly if you used cocaine and alcohol to mask all your feelings too.
I'm not saying he is or isn't, of course. All i'm saying is that you don't want to think the world is full of people with NPD! The other thing is, generally, people with NPD don't necessarily appear to have NPD. One of the trademarks is "mirroring" other people. But certainly doesn't hurt to be aware.
When you meet someone and something appears to be "off", that gut feeling. Follow that.
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I agree with other posters here, "narcissism" is kind of en vogue today to describe all kinds of poor behavior.
But to answer your question, addiction often accompanies NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and the disorder precedes the addiction, and will remain after the individual gets sober. Non-NPD addicts can express narcissistic behaviors while using, but also have the ability to experience true remorse.
Sounds like this is a romantic partner of yours, and NPD or not, it's a good time to reflect on whether this is a good situation for you or if you should move on and heal.
But to answer your question, addiction often accompanies NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and the disorder precedes the addiction, and will remain after the individual gets sober. Non-NPD addicts can express narcissistic behaviors while using, but also have the ability to experience true remorse.
Sounds like this is a romantic partner of yours, and NPD or not, it's a good time to reflect on whether this is a good situation for you or if you should move on and heal.
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I have narcissistic parents. I have a narcissistic brother. Not the "self-centered" catch-phrase type of thing. The type of thing I've come to realize in a really deep inner knowing through much of my own healing journey. The longer I've had No Contact with them, the more realizations and much inner healing started coming about, with therapy and support. I grew up with these people. I had a twisted view of life. I was scared and scarred, without realizing this. I didn't want to look at my anxieties and hid them from myself until I could no longer ignore it. This is healing quite quickly, in the overall scheme of things. I hoped for a 10 day cure. Each 10 months, I can look back and see gigantic strides and changes in my life.
I've read some articles, and relate to them, about how active alcoholism (or white-knuckled sobriety) often has many of the same characteristics of narcissism.
What the problem is has little to do with the actions I take for my own recovery on any given day. My recovery is developed through big and small new, healthy actions. Looking at what's going on with others is best done from a point of first finding great inner stability and a trust in my own instincts.
Here's a video from Self-Care Haven that starts with a mention of spring, eradicating the roots of what we don't want and cultivating what we do want for ourselves. The autumn balance of that is the same. Tending to the garden of inner growth in a fall ritual can be a wonderful tie-in to the ebb and flow of nature.
I find occasional use of these talks to be helpful in dealing with people who have narcissistic behaviors or emotional abusers, no diagnosis needed, simply using this as a temporary compass to direct my own recovery.
https://youtu.be/6DjUNtavJd4
I've read some articles, and relate to them, about how active alcoholism (or white-knuckled sobriety) often has many of the same characteristics of narcissism.
What the problem is has little to do with the actions I take for my own recovery on any given day. My recovery is developed through big and small new, healthy actions. Looking at what's going on with others is best done from a point of first finding great inner stability and a trust in my own instincts.
Here's a video from Self-Care Haven that starts with a mention of spring, eradicating the roots of what we don't want and cultivating what we do want for ourselves. The autumn balance of that is the same. Tending to the garden of inner growth in a fall ritual can be a wonderful tie-in to the ebb and flow of nature.
I find occasional use of these talks to be helpful in dealing with people who have narcissistic behaviors or emotional abusers, no diagnosis needed, simply using this as a temporary compass to direct my own recovery.
https://youtu.be/6DjUNtavJd4
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It also doesn't matter. Addiction creates narcissism to keep itself alive, so if somebody is already a narcissist you are likely not to notice, or just notice the evidence of it becoming more severe. Addiction, and also sobriety for an addict/alcoholic, requires a certain kind of self-centeredness.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by Cyranoak 
It also doesn't matter. Addiction creates narcissism to keep itself alive, so if somebody is already a narcissist you are likely not to notice, or just notice the evidence of it becoming more severe. Addiction, and also sobriety for an addict/alcoholic, requires a certain kind of self-centeredness.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
After living with my RAH for the past 9 months, I agree with what Anvilhead said. 100%. The RA is still very self-absorbed. It doesn't go away overnight, or even over a few months.
They have to learn an entirely new way of existing, navigating the world, feeling their feelings, and learning what to do with those feelings. Their thinking is foggy, their emotions are all over the place, they are forgetful and confused.
What you are describing sounds like a person in very early recovery. This is all just my observations with ny RAH, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary from all the other things I've read here on SR.
It was suggested to me by those on SR to detach from the RAH as much as possible. They honestly don't know up from down, they can barely help themselves, much less work on any relationship. They might talk to people, but a lot of the time they don't make a lot of sense.
You deserve to be treated well, you deserve a relationship where you are not doing all the giving. It's just not fair the other partner has to suffer MORE from something they never wanted or deserved. But that's the way it is.
Just keep coming to SR and vent away. It helps a lot and will keep your sanity intact. Hugs to you friend. It's hard when they are drinking, it's even harder when they aren't. But if he works hard, there's a light at the end of the tunnel if that's the path you choose for your relationship.
They have to learn an entirely new way of existing, navigating the world, feeling their feelings, and learning what to do with those feelings. Their thinking is foggy, their emotions are all over the place, they are forgetful and confused.
What you are describing sounds like a person in very early recovery. This is all just my observations with ny RAH, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary from all the other things I've read here on SR.
It was suggested to me by those on SR to detach from the RAH as much as possible. They honestly don't know up from down, they can barely help themselves, much less work on any relationship. They might talk to people, but a lot of the time they don't make a lot of sense.
You deserve to be treated well, you deserve a relationship where you are not doing all the giving. It's just not fair the other partner has to suffer MORE from something they never wanted or deserved. But that's the way it is.
Just keep coming to SR and vent away. It helps a lot and will keep your sanity intact. Hugs to you friend. It's hard when they are drinking, it's even harder when they aren't. But if he works hard, there's a light at the end of the tunnel if that's the path you choose for your relationship.
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
It also doesn't matter. Addiction creates narcissism to keep itself alive, so if somebody is already a narcissist you are likely not to notice, or just notice the evidence of it becoming more severe. Addiction, and also sobriety for an addict/alcoholic, requires a certain kind of self-centeredness.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
Consider, here at least, that what we are really trying to accomplish is to help you, others, and ourselves heal from our injuries past, present, and maybe future that resulted in us finding, and STAYING WITH, alcholics/addicts. What rational person does that for the love of God!?!
The only people I can understand at all are parents and children of alcoholics. At least I get why you stay or keep trying. Everybody else, myself included, seem to get off on the pure pain, misery, and martyrdom.
Good God. I'm going to sign off and punch myself in the face.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,355
Originally Posted by Wamama48
After living with my RAH for the past 9 months, I agree with what Anvilhead said. 100%. The RA is still very self-absorbed. It doesn't go away overnight, or even over a few months.
They have to learn an entirely new way of existing, navigating the world, feeling their feelings, and learning what to do with those feelings. Their thinking is foggy, their emotions are all over the place, they are forgetful and confused.
What you are describing sounds like a person in very early recovery. This is all just my observations with ny RAH, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary from all the other things I've read here on SR.
It was suggested to me by those on SR to detach from the RAH as much as possible. They honestly don't know up from down, they can barely help themselves, much less work on any relationship. They might talk to people, but a lot of the time they don't make a lot of sense.
You deserve to be treated well, you deserve a relationship where you are not doing all the giving. It's just not fair the other partner has to suffer MORE from something they never wanted or deserved. But that's the way it is.
Just keep coming to SR and vent away. It helps a lot and will keep your sanity intact. Hugs to you friend. It's hard when they are drinking, it's even harder when they aren't. But if he works hard, there's a light at the end of the tunnel if that's the path you choose for your relationship.
They have to learn an entirely new way of existing, navigating the world, feeling their feelings, and learning what to do with those feelings. Their thinking is foggy, their emotions are all over the place, they are forgetful and confused.
What you are describing sounds like a person in very early recovery. This is all just my observations with ny RAH, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary from all the other things I've read here on SR.
It was suggested to me by those on SR to detach from the RAH as much as possible. They honestly don't know up from down, they can barely help themselves, much less work on any relationship. They might talk to people, but a lot of the time they don't make a lot of sense.
You deserve to be treated well, you deserve a relationship where you are not doing all the giving. It's just not fair the other partner has to suffer MORE from something they never wanted or deserved. But that's the way it is.
Just keep coming to SR and vent away. It helps a lot and will keep your sanity intact. Hugs to you friend. It's hard when they are drinking, it's even harder when they aren't. But if he works hard, there's a light at the end of the tunnel if that's the path you choose for your relationship.
In relation to your feedback, thanks, I have detached, I'm working on my self esteem now and hoping to eventually get to a place where I'll be more consistently confident and feeling self worth as opposed to a day here and there. That said I still have horrible days. All a process.
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There are narcissists who are active alcoholics or are recovering. I think when you're a narcissist you're narcissist before alcohol took hold, during the alcoholic phase and in recovery, if they ever get to recovery. Narcissistic personality is a separate issue such as abuse. It takes much insight for them to change. I could respond yes to all those questions after 18 months of H being sober.
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