Smarie78

While I continue on this path of healing from my very toxic relationship with an alcoholic, I often reflect on the many times in the past where the battle was often a lonely one. Due to the nature of the relationship, I felt shunned by family and friends as I continually made the decision to stay even when the going got tough. Very tough. Seeing it with some distance behind me now, I still believe I hold some grudge. Some resentment for why I had to battle the shame alone, many times feeling like my choices earned me the punishment of the “scarlet letter”. Even from those I loved the most.

Most recently this became evident in my relationship with my sister whom I often wrote about during my own many years with xABF. The judgement and ostracization I felt from her specifically, though understandably. Always wanting her approval for staying but never getting it. Begging sheepishly, but wordlessly, to hang onto me even as I sat by and watched the chaos erupt around me really needing her to love me anyways.

Fast forward to now. Her recent confession to me that she has taken up an affair with a colleague whom is also married. As she rides her very own pink cloud and beams with her own teenaged version of drunkenness, I can’t help but feel my own growing resentment. I love her very much and nothing she can do nor decide to would ever cause me to cast shame upon, however, while deep inside I am saddened by her choice, I can’t help but wonder, where was she when I needed her? Why can I so easily lend my love and support to something I don’t agree with (though understand for other reasons) yet never received the same when I needed it most.
Let me clarify by saying that I never expected her to approve of my toxic and dangerous and sad state of a relationship, how could I? I myself couldn’t even approve of it. But I did always wish I had her there for me when things got tough and I slipped into my own addiction of going back to him time and time again even when I promised I wouldn’t.
Why did I have to wear that letter and she doesn’t? Most of all, how do I handle being the one on the other side of the darkness?

trailmix

Hi Smarie, yes, why. Well, in a nutshell, you are expecting her to react as you would.

It's just not the way it is. Her "standards" for your behaviour are hers, in her head and A-OK with her. The fact that what she is now doing is totally hypocritical probably hasn't even entered her head?

Maybe that's part of her personality? Maybe she is good at justifying her actions in life while sitting in judgement of others and so detached from being supportive?

On the other hand, maybe she cares more about your well-being than hers (hence the current situation) and felt she had to detach for that reason? I don't know her at all of course so I'm just guessing.

How to handle it, personally, I would tell her what I think, as in the hazards and then be there for her, if that is what you wish to do. Respect for another's choice is my approach.

That said, if this goes on for a while, you might lose patience with it as she did with you? How can an affair with two married people go well/ end well?

hopeful4

I remember all the chaos with your sister. It's amazing what you realize about a person when you are able to just step back and look at them without the chaos in your own life.

I am so happy for all the progress you have made. Families are families. Sometimes they support you, and sometimes they don't. Just remember, you don't have to find support with only them. I have many people in my life I consider family who are not blood related at all.

Big hugs from a proud supporter! I am so motivated by watching your journey of calm healing.

FireSprite

I try very hard to take a giant step back & remember how the sting of their judgment felt & stay out of that place myself, because it's truly a god-awful place to be.

To me, these are expectations - are they reasonable? Are they fair to expect of someone? An addict can't expect their loved ones to pull them out of their addiction, why should we?

It's hard stuff, but this is such a big part of recovery to me- beyond our qualifiers & into our daily lives.

Who says you do?

marie1960

Smarie,

I know why you felt alone, because you were alone. (Granted, I do not remember your entire story) but when we make the repeated choice to stay in a bad relationship, this becomes part of our story.

There comes a point where the immediate family members have no choice other than to let go and allow adults to be adults. And live their life as they see fit. It’s crushing to watch those we love keep running back into that burning building.

We have to truly feel the consequences of our choices before we begin to wake up and choose differently..

Fast forward to today. So now your sister is needing a a confidant, for a matter that we both know is going to cause pain and more than likely end in disaster for some people. Why would you even want to lend an ear to that? Personally, I would get as far away from that as I could. Wouldn’t want to hear it, see it, or know anything about it, because sometimes even being the listening ear can keep that little fire burning, and you don’t want your name involved when this all starts blowing up, and it will ,
it always does....

Best you can do is let go of those grudges, not for anyone but you, all that bitterness has a way of holding us back from experiencing and finding new peace and joy.

PuzzledHeart

Why WOULD you want to support something that you don't agree with? Would you lie for your sister about her whereabouts if her husband asked her where she was? How are you going to face her husband now, knowing what you know? How will you feel if he finds out that you knew before he did?

Your sister is playing Hot Potato with a nuclear bomb, and like it or not, she is now asking you to lie so she can remain in Happy Land. Quite frankly, I would be angry too!

When my sister had the affair that broke up her marriage, I thankfully found out after her husband did. I supported her and believed everything she said 100% about the marriage. What I didn't know at the time was that she was playing straight out of the Cheater's Handbook. (An aside here - it's pretty crazy to see the parallels between drug/alcohol addicts and people who have affairs. )

I know that you want to avoid heaping shame and judgment on your sister, because of the burden it placed on you. I'm also wondering if some of the anger you feel for her non-support is actually anger because of her willingness to place herself in the same position that you were in not so long ago.

I guess this is a very long-winded way of saying that you can love somebody, but you don't have to support their decisions. You don't have to support her affair.

Smarie78

Really interesting thoughts you have all shared to help me “unpack this” even further. There are so many facets, and you’ve all mentioned almost all, that I think it is some combination of just everything;

1. I am sad about what she is doing. She has two beautiful babies who are my life and a husband who suffers from depression and bipolar. To me it feels like she is cheating on the whole family. This affair also takes place during business travel to flashy big cities. Her husband is unemployed. It makes me sad when I think about him home watching the children knowing she is having a blast and in her words “having the time of her life”. I feel bad for the family. The first night this affair happened was out of town and she missed her sons first day of kindergarten. It just all feels lousy and maybe I am surprised at her non-chalance of it? Like when you thought you knew someone.

2. I also feel a strange understanding - hear me out because I too have a history of empathizing to the nth degree giving even Satan the benefit of the doubt. She has been unhappy in the marriage. Her husband doesn’t hold her hand or do romantic things. He is kind of sloppy. Doesn’t help her around the house and rarely do they have sex. He also cannot hold down a job. Drinks a lot of beer and smokes a lot of pot. Her career has taken off and she is surrounded by men who are his opposite. In other words your putting a hungry bear near a honey pot. Does t make it right? No. Do I get it? In some ways yes.

3. I have issues of resentment when she gloats about this new affair. Resentful because she treated me poorly when I was with xabf but also resentful that I feel this deep Codie responsibility to be there to hear all about her love sickness - she calls me all the time now talking for hours about this guy and I never felt afforded to be open with her when I was in a disapproving situation (i get that this is very much my own doing). I partly want to listen knowing how it must feel to feel “love” and sparks again, but I partly want to scream at her for doing something that is overall, terrible. I also feel annoyed because she seems to be on this big selfish kind of streak lately only talking to me about the affair and how great it is, or her job and how great it is, not really seeming to feel anything about hurting someone.

Anyway these are more my own thoughts vs “what should I do?”. I guess I am still struggling a little since life without xabf and trying to understand where I fit now. I have trouble feeling “enough” whether it be work or toward another relationship. I think it might be time to go back to therapy :-)

Oh well, at least the chaos of the alcoholism is gone and that is a huge step - but interesting how our problems will continue to surface even in the absence of what we once thought was the “issue”.

Xo

PuzzledHeart

You can always say no. You have the right to set up boundaries.

You could say something like "I love you so much, but this affair is something that I cannot support. It is extremely upsetting for me, and it can no longer be a topic of discussion." If she's in the affair fog, she won't understand, but honestly that's not your problem. She may think that because you were recently involved with a married man that you "understand" why she's doing this. However, I will suggest that her way of thinking may threaten your own recovery.

Smarie, you're doing so well, and your health and your well-being matter so much. This is a great time to exercise your right to have boundaries that will keep you safe.

dandylion

Smarie….communication and honesty are foundational in any relationship...including sibling relationships.....Friends tell friends the truth....
Why not tell her the same truth, about this situation, that you have shared with us....Remembering, of course, that you don't have to say it mean! You can tell her these things from a position of love, understanding and support.....

Jaeger

Smarie,

The above jumped out at me. This sounds a lot like addiction to me. Do you think it is possible that is why she had such strong feeling about your relationship? I’m not in any way saying she was in the right or that her affair is ok. Just something to think about.

Lots of beer + pot=depression
Alcohol=depressant

You have made such huge strides in your recovery, don’t let it get you down.

Jaeger

NYCDoglvr

Expectations and judging can make us very miserable indeed. One of my favorite sayings: "let go or be dragged."

hopeful4

Oh boy. She is likely feeling elation of being care free. I am sure she knows she is wrong in what she is doing. Maybe she feels she deserves it.

Living with a depressed man who cannot hold down a job who drinks and smokes too much would breed resentment. I know this b/c it happened to me. That was my XAH. The ones who truly suffer are the kids. I never cheated on him, but I can see how easily it could happen. You feel like you become roommates, not spouse and spouse.

Have you told her that you feel uncomfortable with all of this and that you really don't want to be part of it or talk about it? I would say that is about all you can do. It is her life and her choices, you just don't have to set yourself up to hear all about it.

maia1234

Smarie,
You have come a long way in two years with your recovery. You fell a few times, but got back up and look at you now? You are the "healthy" one. Your sister is probably jealous of you, no kids, good job, no loser boyfriend. You have freedom to do as you please.

Your sister in my opinion is acting like a spoiled brat. Why she thinks it's ok to tell you everything about the affair is just wrong. If she is unhappy with her husband, divorce him. I know that she did everything to get you away from your axbf. So because she helped you " you are Expected" to support this?

If it was my sister (If I am not mistaken I think twin), I would say, you know I am still struggling with all my issues and I am sorry, but I just don't have the time to listen to all of this and leave it at that. Don't let her engage and give you the details of her affair. She might get angry, but forget it. I know that she has been very good to you. I know that she doesn't expect you to judge her because of what you put up with over the years and she never "judged" you.

She knows it wrong and destroying her family. She too wears the "scarlet" letter but she fails to accept that today (its just all fun) If you remember its the same way you failed to see the unacceptable treatment in your life. All I say is that you don't have to engage in it with her and I feel if you tell her why she could get very angry with you.

We say here on SR, we need to stay on our side of the street. It is not your job to judge her, and it helps when you don't know all the gory details.

PuzzledHeart

I'm going to throw something out there, and it may be so wrong that I'll never be able to eat chocolate again. Are you still seeking your sister's approval or even her love?

You may be thinking "If she loved me, she wouldn't even mentioning her affair to me because she would be afraid of reviving memories of my past relationship." And then the anger and resentment flood in. But you don't want to lay down the boundary, because if you tell her the boundary, and she doesn't respect it, in your own mind it means she doesn't love you. So you don't bother, because why test her love?

IMHO, love has nothing to do with it. She may love you, but she's so doped up in Affair Land that she can barely acknowledge your boundary. Addicts hate boundaries; you know that by now.

Being trapped in an unhappy marriage is an awful thing, but having an affair doesn't make it any better at all. If she wants to leave it, she needs to leave it.

Perhaps it's just me, but you and your siblings seem to share similar behaviors when it comes to codependency and addiction. May be worth exploring.

PuzzledHeart

Shoot, I should add that your thread has made me think about my own sister. I've always thought about the ways we are different. I should also think about the ways we are very much the same. So thank you.

Smarie78

I think you make a great point! I'm not sure if it's so much as approval as it is me still trying to make strides at not being a doormat. It's kind of like I find myself still being good to people who weren't so good to me. Not saying she wasn't "good" to me but I remember when I was with xabf I felt so small around her. She would look at me like I had three heads. I felt ostracized and shame. And yes I know that nobody can make you feel that way but you, but I certainly felt that emanating from her during those last 3 years. For me, I just can't imagine being anything less than a shoulder or a hand for a loved one, even if I disagreed with their choices. Maybe a part of me feels like since I know what it felt like to feel small because of a bad choice I made, I wouldn't want anyone else to feel judged or ashamed.

Smarie78

Thanks so much guys - really interesting feedback. I think I will in fact need to set a boundary though because it's starting to drive me nuts. More so because I am tired of talking about it - the exact same conversation everytime. And it isn't the lovestruck la la land all the time, but also just the unhappiness with her current husband and having every conversation be about that. And her new found confidence and zeal to live her best life. Before all this she couldn't stop talking about work. She is just very much on this high lately because she got a very big promotion at work so is hanging out with the leaders (one of them her lover) and feeling on top of the world.
I asked her the other day if she felt guilty at all when she looked at her boys since it's their father she was being unfaithful to, and I was so surprised that she had said no. She feels she deserves this because she's never had spark or love or caring from her husband. Almost like it's her "time", if that makes sense. At any rate, a lot of that comes from resentment feeling like he never really cared much at all about her or anything else. But still, I don't know...cheating with kids makes me sad inside because I would automatically feel like I was cheating on my family vs. just my husband.

Anyhow, none of this is good. Interesting that in one of your lovely comments you mention keeping to my side of the street. I love that.This morning during one of our chats she said she feels bad because she was not there at all for me during my hard time, yet wonders why I am being there for her. I told her that it's because I don't lose sleep over it, which is true. I am focused on my side of the street. I will listen to her but I spend no real time on it like she use to with me. I only care about the well being of my little nephews in all of this. That's what I use to feel like with my xabf. Us adults are adults, we know better. It's the kids we are shaping now - his son or my nephews - that don't deserve the choice the parent makes that will undoubtedly impact them later on.

I did tell my sister to please delete her text messages (she likes to keep them so she can read them back to herself to get that high), but her password is her birthday and her son is old enough to get in there and play games as he usually does...plus old enough to read. Anyhow...im rambling, at the end of the day my well being by paying attention to my own life, and the well being of her little boys are what I care most about.

hopeful4

I think it's interesting that she KNOWS she was not there for you and is seeing you are there for her. Be there for your nephews, that's all you can do. I agree to tell her to delete the messages. It usto make me furious that my XAH would have his messages pop up on his phone right after we separated. My children did not need to read those, but they were literally right in front of their face and hurt them badly.

You have to let go of what you cannot control. Your own recovery is shining today friend!

FireSprite

I'm making assumptions but my interpretation is that all her judgment about Smarie's situation is a self-reflection of things she was judging herself for in her own reality.... Smarie was just an easy outlet for that insecurity, frustration & blame.

Does knowing all this change the way you "hear" her opinions in hindsight? That a lot of what she said to you was filtered through her own self-judgment & respect?

Smarie78

Yes, my xabf use to change the women's names to names of men on his phone and leave the text preview on I didn't even have to snoop to know he was cheating. I always told him the least he could have done was hid it better so I wouldn't have to see it. And yes, all I can do is be there for the boys. Back to my side!