FreeOwl

Hi...

So in my fifth year of recovery one thing I remain deeply challenged with... one PERSON, actually, is my ex. The mother of two of my children, she consistently behaves in ways that are hurtful and frustrating. She, in turn, insists that it's ME who does that. At times, she's right.

This past week I reacted to her refusal to let me talk to the kids by lashing out and venting on social media about her. That came back to her and she brought it up in a counseling session.

The counselor, during that discussion, suggested that I get familiar with a 12-step process.... which I told her I am.

At that point, she suggested I should go to Al-Anon because "it's DIFFERENT than AA".

I've been to a few Al-Anon meetings over the years, but they're using the same 12 steps. I get that the point of Al-Anon is more with regard to the family and the patterns of dealing with an alcoholic.....

Here's my struggle.....

I think I do a decent job of forgiving, of letting go, of keeping what I can control as my focus and on trying to not react. Then, sometimes her behavior does get the best of me and I react in unproductive ways.

I'm trying to learn how to draw boundaries and not simply be walked all over (always the one who has to 'give in' because compromise only means her way or no way).... and how to do that without becoming re-engaged in the hurt and anger I've experienced with her over the years....

I suppose it's about more regularly, consciously, deeply 12-stepping the resentments I still have.

But - will Al-Anon help with that? Is Al-Anon useful in learning to accept the dysfunctional behavior of a person who probably has emotional / psychological disorder..... learning how to establish and honor boundaries without being unproductive and / or just taken advantage of?

Thanks

biminiblue

Yes.

It's very different than AA. At least in my experience.

Is there a reason why you have to interact at all with your Ex? If the kids are young, you could restrict contact to a designated email account and talk only about the kids. I'm sure you know that lashing out on social media was not a good thing to do.

She doesn't have any power unless you give it to her.

FreeOwl

Thanks.

Yes, we have to communicate about the kids because we share custody 50/50.

Lashing out was definitely not the right response and I’ve done what I can to make amends.

I’m working to grow and learn the complicated balance of letting go without letting go to the point that the kids are negatively impacted or my own boundaries crossed.

Maybe AlAnon will be helpful with that

biminiblue

Is she a drinker?

Not that it is a pre-req...

I think it's pretty normal to have issues with an Ex. I mean, they're exes for a reason. Letting go is a skill that is not always practiced perfectly. If it were, I wouldn't need God in this.

FreeOwl

She drinks but I wouldn’t classify her alcoholic.

She suffers from unresolved trauma and has untreated anxiety and depression....

FireSprite

Yes, I agree that it can help with the things you talk about in your post. To me, dysfunction is dysfunction no matter what label it wears. One of the places that the Al-Anon type strategies I've learned here at SR over the years has come in most useful has been in dealing with my severely codependent mother.

I can't help but ask - does your ex attend Al-Anon?

Ann

I attended Al-anon and got a lot of good lessons on how to live a healthy life, regardless of how my son lived his. My son is an addict, not an alcoholic, but that didn't matter to the group.

My home group, the meeting I attended regularly and gave service to over the years, was CoDA (Codependents Anonymous) which was more about dealing with dysfunction in our relationships, not always having anything to do with drugs or alcohol, and it was here that I found a wonderful sponsor who guided me through working and understanding the 12 Steps of CoDA, identical to all other 12 Steps except for one word in step 1..the word "others" replaces alcohol or drugs as in other programs Steps.

"We admitted we were powerless over others and that our lives had become unmanageable".

I think you might benefit by trying a few meetings, the size and personalities at each meeting varies, until you find one that fits you, and then continue to go regularly and give it a chance. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck.

FreeOwl

No, she’s doesn’t attend al anon or really any kind of support or counselor apart from her church.

FireSprite

Then I'm going to be contrary.

I don't understand what the therapist expects to achieve if only ONE of you are working through your resentments & issues.

FreeOwl

Thank you, I’ll definitely give it a shot

LifeRecovery

My two cents

I do not struggle with drugs or alcohol but attend open AA meetings. I am there to learn about the connectivity of being a human and how addictive tendencies seem to unit us rather than separate us. I also find a level of recovery being discussed in one meeting in particular, inspirational.

I attend Al-Anon for just the reasons you mentioned. AA helps me with my own behavior, Al-Anon helps me from getting involved with the behavior of others. It helps connect me with others that are learning self-care, loving boundaries etc. I find in my particular group of Al-Anon that as a group we are less likely to want to dive into our own feelings than the AA group and I find both sides helpful with nuanced differences.

I also attend individual therapy. In part to bring what I can't always figure out in Al-Anon/AA but also to deepen my own recovery. My own therapy has allowed me to "Take what I want and leave the rest."

In other words I find all three beneficial and use them in different amounts depending on the season.

aliciagr

In your post above it says that you feel your doing a good job of owning whats yours and letting other thing go.

Do you think that you broke one of her boundaries by calling and asking to speak to the kids at an inappropriate time? or was she just being spiteful?

In my opinion, Alanon is for people who have control issues. Where your emotions and maybe identity are tied to another person and their behavior. It goes beyond simply getting upset once in a while because of another persons actions. Humans do affect other people with their behavior and sometimes we can handle it poorly or at least not up to our own desired standard.

I don't think you really need a program like Alanon to learn about boundaries although its part of the content. There are a lot of books that cover boundaries in relationships, also if you work with a therapist then Id suggest discussing this person and how interactions make you feel.

My husband who is in recovery has issues dealing with his codependent mother. He keeps having to go NC with her. Obviously that's not an option for you since you must communicate with your ex because of the kids.

Many threads on this forum discuss troubled communications with the other parent, and how to keep things to a minimum and set firm rules for interactions to minimize stress and anxiety.

Florence

It's not normal and acceptable behavior for a co-parent to lash out against their ex on social media for any reason. If this came up in court, a judge would spank you for being unable to control your emotions enough to NOT post about it on Facebook (or Instagram, or Twitter, etc). Recently, I witnessed a huge dumpster fire on Facebook when a woman called out her boyfriend's ex for perceived violations, and all it did was create more friction and mistrust between them - and a judge did ultimately shut her down - hard - during their custody hearing the following week. Even if you think you're right, it's wrong.

I learned a lot about boundaries by participating on these forums, getting individual counseling, and creating friendships and relationships where I could talk about my feelings, trauma, frustrations, etc., without acting out in counter-productive ways. EVEN IF your ex was being petty and reactive here, you're responsible for your side of the street.

Mango212

Many paths.

Healing can be found throughout life, in many connected ways.

Al-anon has been a big part of my recovery. Having any alcoholic friend or relative is enough to get someone in the door. Once we get there, more is revealed.

I have several friends who came to Alanon sure it wouldn't work for them. They found peace, happiness and a great sense of humor through good times and chaos. I have, too.

My relationship with an alcoholic gave me the opportunity for great self discovery and stepping out of the roles assigned to me by myself and others.

I also know several Alanon members who didn't identify with the qualifications of having an alcoholic in their life until they'd been there a while and were working the steps. Sometimes alcoholism is then discovered a generation back, aunt/uncle, etc. Amazing how this works!

FreeOwl

Well.... I think she probably sees that at least one of us is open to doing the work - and is probably going on the premise that one of us working on our issues is better than none of us.

The core reason for this counseling is the children. I'm willing to do what it takes to show the children a positive model of a parent working on what he can control and what he needs to own - even IF she's never ever willing to do the same. A huge part of the issue here really is that she has forever maintained she HAS no issues.... I'm the terrible person.... her children need to respect her.... the world needs to change around her.

When dealing by necessity with a person like that, I've found I am repeatedly challenged by ever-new-resentments and am continually trying to figure out where to draw boundaries, how to respond to irrational and irresponsible behavior and what example to set for the kids.

I agree - it seems everyone involved should be willing and taking steps to work their own program. At this point, there's no indication she'll be likely to get there. The therapist did recommend therapy for everyone..... my ex refuses. She also now refuses to have the family therapy on "her" weeks because "it's not working" despite what the counselor and the childrens' psychologist say.

So.... with what I'm able to control; my own response, my own actions, my own willingness to change, my own ability to check out al anon and further my growth.... that's what I'm gonna do.

FreeOwl

well.... one of her boundaries is I am not allowed to request a call.... ever. I am not allowed contact. Ever. She claims the kids can have contact when they ask.... (as long as they're not in trouble, it's not dinner time, they're not trying to get out of a chore or a host of other things).

The net is - I almost never have contact with them at their mother's, they report being denied when they ask, and it's entirely up to her whim if, when and how any communication is had between us. So yes, I 'broke her boundary' but it's a very sore point because of how unfair and unhealthy a boundary I feel it is.....

FireSprite

Gotcha - it originally read as if you were the only one advised to do other types of therapy/meetings.

I wish I had great answers for you but I think you're right - learning what you can to control your side of things is all you CAN do. You can't force her to heal. When someone is invested in their Victimization as a basic part of their identity & choose to spread it out externally vs. healing it internally, I find them very difficult to be around in the most insignificant ways. I can't imagine co-parenting around those issues as well!

aliciagr

I don't know your situation of course, but I think its safe to say parents can use their kids as weapons.

I would follow the advice given on this forum and document, document, document. This may be something that you need to discuss with an attorney in regards to visitation/interaction with the kids. I would also document your request and willingness to do family therapy, and her rejection to this idea. Document the kids saying they wanted to talk to you, and her saying no. Document if there are outside activities of theirs that you want to attend, but arent allowed. And watch what you put on social media because she may also be documenting every interaction and post you make.

And stay healthy. Im a proponent of kids having both parents in their life as long as the kids are safe, and exposed to a healthy environment.

FreeOwl

Thank you.... I did spend a LOT of time with the document, document, document approach over the course of 8 years..... the unfortunate reality is that while the system can be helpful in the case of physical abuse.... it is much, much less helpful when the abuse doesn't leave bruises. At this point, my long-running experience with the court system leads me to believe that the best thing I can do is focus on modeling the right behavior, making all I can of the fact that I managed to get court-ordered counseling (she wouldn't go along with it for years), and doing what I can to change ME without having my rights entirely steamrolled all the time.

NYCDoglvr

And yet you blasted her on social media? If you're a recovering alcoholic go to AA, which does a terrific job with the steps. You don't have to have direct contact with her.