Amends?
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 149
Amends?
I have been attending AA, I have no sponsor, I respect the program , it is helping me but I am doing other things to remain sober. I have a question , I have been an alcoholic for 38 years , in that time I have seen probably at least 50 people I know join AA, some were very good friends others just drunken people I met along my path. Some owe me no amends , they were always respectful to me, others were complete belligerent drunks who actually owe the world an apology. However , I have never been approached by any of them or received a letter of amends either. Some owe me financially which I do not want, but the belligerent ones who are strong members of AA have not made amends to anyone I know, I know AA is anonymous but people talk , I find this a little bit hypocritical , the last meeting I attended one of the belligerent ones was speaking about inventory and rebuilding which I respect him for , but I have an intuition that he is just going through the motions.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
People may talk, but I venture to guess that people don't talk much about amends?
If people haven't made amends to me, I'd have to consider they feel an amends is not warranted.
I may disagree but it's not my amends
Often things happen without us knowing, but even if you're right and there are people in your group who haven;t made amends, this is one of those times Id remember I'm not in control of what other people do, or don't do.
All I can do is keep my 'side of the street' clean, Bunchie
D
If people haven't made amends to me, I'd have to consider they feel an amends is not warranted.
I may disagree but it's not my amends
Often things happen without us knowing, but even if you're right and there are people in your group who haven;t made amends, this is one of those times Id remember I'm not in control of what other people do, or don't do.
All I can do is keep my 'side of the street' clean, Bunchie
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
I wanted to add Bunchie, I have never asked other people whether they have received amends from 'so and so'. I have to admit, that is really bizarre to me. I know people talk, but I can choose not to.
I highly recommend a sponsor. That person can help you understand the principles behind the program.
I highly recommend a sponsor. That person can help you understand the principles behind the program.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 149
Yiu guys must have a great AA program, I live in a one horse town with very little going on, everyone knows everyone's business and the AA meeting might as well be a town meeting, my point about amends is that none are being made and I think none should to tell you the truth except to immediate family. My bigger point is the steps are to be done over and over so how many amends can you actually make . If you have been in AA for ten years how can you keeping making amends and doing steps?I think it is constant negativity about our pasts that AA seems to constantly remind us , it really is a downer.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
Well I dunno about you Bunchie but I make mistakes everyday...sometimes I owe folks an amends - might be nothing to do with alcohol now, but I still think it's one of those 'good to by live by' models.
I also found that ten years out from drinking, I find a lot more things I decide I owe amends on from that period of my life.
I attribute that to growth on my part.
I hope, if you're interested, you'll find someone to take you through the Big Book and the Steps and help you understand the reasoning behind it all
If you're not interested and you're finding AA an unhappy experience for you - find another method - SMART LifeRing RefugeRecovery...etc
go to online meetings if you have to, or try Rational Recovery -= no meetings at all
D
I also found that ten years out from drinking, I find a lot more things I decide I owe amends on from that period of my life.
I attribute that to growth on my part.
I hope, if you're interested, you'll find someone to take you through the Big Book and the Steps and help you understand the reasoning behind it all
If you're not interested and you're finding AA an unhappy experience for you - find another method - SMART LifeRing RefugeRecovery...etc
go to online meetings if you have to, or try Rational Recovery -= no meetings at all
D
DOS: 08-16-2012
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 365
Originally Posted by least 
The only amends I think about are the ones I have to make to others.
One example. Early on my sponsor loaned someone in the program money and they never paid him back even though they had ability to and saw him often. He acted like he didn't care yet would bring it up to other people every time he saw this person. Finally he talked to his sponsor about it because he really felt this guy owed him the money and an amends. His sponsor asked him why the hell would he give money to a drunk and expect it back!!! He told him it was his choice to give him the money and he needed to get over it or he would eventually drink because of it. That's what we Alcoholics do. So my sponsor worked through it and found a way to deal with it and let it go. Honestly he still hopes to get that money back with an apology someday but at least today he doesn't dwell on it and won't drink over it. Without working through it with his sponsor though who knows where that incident would have lead him.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
I think most folks in AA go through the 12 steps once and from then on work 10, 11, and 12. Periodically we may revisit all 12 again when we feel that we need to, but that is a personal judgement.
I'm sorry that you are only able to attend a single meeting in your town, each AA meeting has its own character and is largely defined by the experience of the folks who attend it. In my experience, the purpose of the steps is to guide us to a way of living which does not require alcohol or any other mind altering substance to cope with life. This is no small feat, and it requires a lot of introspection. I doubt that most people are capable of the objectivity needed to "self-sponsor" themselves through the steps; I am certain that I was not and I continue to work with a sponsor eight years into the journey. I would recommend seeking out someone who has what you want and asking them to sponsor you. It isn't an easy thing to request of a stranger, but in my case I am eternally grateful that I did.
Keep in touch and good luck!
I'm sorry that you are only able to attend a single meeting in your town, each AA meeting has its own character and is largely defined by the experience of the folks who attend it. In my experience, the purpose of the steps is to guide us to a way of living which does not require alcohol or any other mind altering substance to cope with life. This is no small feat, and it requires a lot of introspection. I doubt that most people are capable of the objectivity needed to "self-sponsor" themselves through the steps; I am certain that I was not and I continue to work with a sponsor eight years into the journey. I would recommend seeking out someone who has what you want and asking them to sponsor you. It isn't an easy thing to request of a stranger, but in my case I am eternally grateful that I did.
Keep in touch and good luck!
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 149
Thank you Eddie,
I will stop in meetings in the city on way home from work , there will probably be more to offer at the meetings in the city . I want to laugh and I understand that alcoholism is a serious problem but the local meeting is quite despondent. Thank you for your reply and explaining amends to me, it makes me feel better that even in sober life we make mistakes and therefore amends, I was getting to the point of frustration with my local meeting because they really do not explain it like you did.
I will stop in meetings in the city on way home from work , there will probably be more to offer at the meetings in the city . I want to laugh and I understand that alcoholism is a serious problem but the local meeting is quite despondent. Thank you for your reply and explaining amends to me, it makes me feel better that even in sober life we make mistakes and therefore amends, I was getting to the point of frustration with my local meeting because they really do not explain it like you did.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Hi Bunchie, you mentioned that you thought some of us must have a great program. It might seem that way but in truth there is only one program, and it is what it is. It is all written out in the big book, but not always easy to understand - when I first read the book the whole thing went right over my head - and it is not always well explained of even available in some meetings I have been to, and that is not your fault.
My home town has something like 50 meetings, but there are also satellite meetings in more isolated places. I like to go out to visit the remote meetings once in a while and I have noticed some pluses and minuses in both city and remote meetings. What might be regarded as a plus (but really isn't) in a city meeting is that if there is someone you don't like, you can hide from them in some other meeting without any real incovenience. Of course you also hide from the growth opportunity that such a situation creates.
In the remote meeting, if you want to stay in AA, (it seems a real downer but isn't really) there ain't nowhere to go nor nowhere to hide. It means we have to grow through the issue, or leave and maybe perish. In my experience I have found some pretty solid recovery in these meetings, and maybe this would be part of the reason.
Having said that, I have been in some areas where the meetings and activity bear virtually no relationship at all to the program and message of recovery. All that gossip stuff, no talk of the program, just my day sort of thing. There is a lot of fighting and bickering, people leave and get drunk, groups fold up or in one case somehow got closed down by a neighbouring group. Understandably, no one gets well in that environment. Good idea to try the town meeting on the way home, gives you something to use as a reference point, and if you filter what you hear through the big book, you will soon get an idea of where the real recovery is to be had.
My home town has something like 50 meetings, but there are also satellite meetings in more isolated places. I like to go out to visit the remote meetings once in a while and I have noticed some pluses and minuses in both city and remote meetings. What might be regarded as a plus (but really isn't) in a city meeting is that if there is someone you don't like, you can hide from them in some other meeting without any real incovenience. Of course you also hide from the growth opportunity that such a situation creates.
In the remote meeting, if you want to stay in AA, (it seems a real downer but isn't really) there ain't nowhere to go nor nowhere to hide. It means we have to grow through the issue, or leave and maybe perish. In my experience I have found some pretty solid recovery in these meetings, and maybe this would be part of the reason.
Having said that, I have been in some areas where the meetings and activity bear virtually no relationship at all to the program and message of recovery. All that gossip stuff, no talk of the program, just my day sort of thing. There is a lot of fighting and bickering, people leave and get drunk, groups fold up or in one case somehow got closed down by a neighbouring group. Understandably, no one gets well in that environment. Good idea to try the town meeting on the way home, gives you something to use as a reference point, and if you filter what you hear through the big book, you will soon get an idea of where the real recovery is to be had.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted by bunchie
Yiu guys must have a great AA program, I live in a one horse town with very little going on, everyone knows everyone's business and the AA meeting might as well be a town meeting, my point about amends is that none are being made and I think none should to tell you the truth except to immediate family. My bigger point is the steps are to be done over and over so how many amends can you actually make . If you have been in AA for ten years how can you keeping making amends and doing steps?I think it is constant negativity about our pasts that AA seems to constantly remind us , it really is a downer.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted by bunchie
the last meeting I attended one of the belligerent ones was speaking about inventory and rebuilding which I respect him for , but I have an intuition that he is just going through the motions.
Ocean Lover!
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: You know nothing Jon Snow - UK
Posts: 2,604
Our side of the street!
“We are there to sweep our side of the street, realising nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until we do so, never try to tell him what he should do. His faults are not discussed. We stick to our own.”
Alcoholics Anonymous Page 77-78
“We are there to sweep our side of the street, realising nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until we do so, never try to tell him what he should do. His faults are not discussed. We stick to our own.”
Alcoholics Anonymous Page 77-78
Ocean Lover!
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: You know nothing Jon Snow - UK
Posts: 2,604
By being so concerned and bothered about someone else not following the steps as you believe they should be carried out, by default you are not following the steps yourself, pot calling the kettle do you not think?
Maybe you would benefit from the resentment step, look at why this is bothering you so much with a sponsor. Best of luck xx
Maybe you would benefit from the resentment step, look at why this is bothering you so much with a sponsor. Best of luck xx
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 182
We have to focus on our own inventory and just make sure our side of the street is clean. There can be hypocrisy and injustice anywhere, but our dues will come when payable.
Just focus on how well you're doing and that you're sober
Just focus on how well you're doing and that you're sober
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Bunchie, I also get your question about endless amends. The way it sounds, the people from our past must get mightily sick of us if we keep going back. But we don't.
One way to think of it is that step 9 is about clearing up the wreckage of the past. Done right, it is a oncer. Done wrong more problems are created and more amends needed later. Thai is why a sponsor is so important with this step.
The principle of amends is learned in this step and then applied as and when required in step ten as we continue in our sober life. In this respect I am making amends almost everday, everytime I make a mistake. My wife is the main beneficiary. It helps me a great deal to keep the decks clear.
Admitting when I am wrong is not an easy thing to do, it's uncomfortable and painful and it puts the offending defect of character in full view. I would rather not have to do it, but I think the constant facing of the defect has the effect of wearing it down, eventually almost making it redundant. Sooner or later the downside of the defect outweighs the upside.
One way to think of it is that step 9 is about clearing up the wreckage of the past. Done right, it is a oncer. Done wrong more problems are created and more amends needed later. Thai is why a sponsor is so important with this step.
The principle of amends is learned in this step and then applied as and when required in step ten as we continue in our sober life. In this respect I am making amends almost everday, everytime I make a mistake. My wife is the main beneficiary. It helps me a great deal to keep the decks clear.
Admitting when I am wrong is not an easy thing to do, it's uncomfortable and painful and it puts the offending defect of character in full view. I would rather not have to do it, but I think the constant facing of the defect has the effect of wearing it down, eventually almost making it redundant. Sooner or later the downside of the defect outweighs the upside.
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