Pathwaytofree

(Edit: I meant to put this post here in Step 12 subforum)

The sponsors I know seem to have no trouble separating themselves from their sponsee's pain, past, current life, not worrying about them, not thinking about them, etc.

It's different for me. I've always been a bit of an empath, and I'm guessing that's why.

It's getting to the point that I'm burnt out from working with sponsees because I quickly get drained from taking on their stuff and trying to help them. It's like I experience the pain of what they experience. I am not saying this in a selfish way. It's not like I'm drained, and then I go on with my life. I stay stuck in the drained feeling.

The weekly phone calls, the every now and then calls with drama, and the helping them see their part is very draining. Also, I don't judge anything they do/did or say/said, but sometimes I struggle with letting go of the results if they don't yet see what I see.

Listening to their 5th steps is incredibly draining. The way I was taught to do 5th steps, are the types that take 6 months to write. So listening to them takes many hours.

I want to help people but I'm not sure I'm cut out to be a sponsor. It has started to greatly effect both my physical and mental health.

I am concerned about hurting their feelings if I tell them I can't work with them anymore, or them thinking its their fault. I don't want them to cop a new resentment, either, or be in fear that they're going to relapse if they don't have a new sponsor right away. I'm just not sure what to do. Plus how do I do Step 12 going forward if I can't sponsor without taking on everyone's stuff?

Eddiebuckle

This is something every sponsor wrestles with at some point. It is hard to get to the place of sponsoring at arms length - give the guidance without expectations or taking ownership of their sobriety. The phrase I was given by my grand-sponsor was "carry the message, not the mess." You have to find what works for you (it may be that you have too many sponsees), but also to learn that when you care more about a sponsee's sobriety than they do, you are not doing anyone any favors.

On the flip side, I do think it is a moral obligation to help the newcomer - those that truly are willing to go to any length deserve all the support we are able to give assuming doing so does not jeopardize our own well being. I am grateful for a guy named Michael who was willing to lead me through the steps, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that he saved my life.

Keep working at it - as they say, more will be revealed.

RDBplus3

Hello Pathway,
Just a suggestion, but this could be seen as a 'powerlessness' or 'un-manageability ' issue.
Apply the Steps, modified to the issue / internal conflict:
1. The internal conflict has elements of powerlessness - I am unable, or have internal conflict, of managing the person(s) that are my Sponsees. The Step / Program method of dealing with ANY internal conflict of powerlessness or unmanageability ... is to immediately go to Step 2.
2. Remember, and apply, the FACT that a spiritual path is the only REAL path to conflict resolution / inner peace. The Self-Will, Flesh Nature path typically leads to more conflict.
3. Make the decision (once again) to commit to following the Spiritual Path that is PROVEN to work, if I just follow it thru.
4. Inventory time. Creatively apply the inventory process to the issues that are causing inner turmoil. (Even if it SEEMS they are being caused by other people, circumstances beyond my 'control', etc.) It is important to make the internal note - we manufacture our own misery, regardless of the circumstances, it is the way we are internally processing that manufactures the internal condition we experience.
5. Do I need to share this with others - not necessarily a full 5th Step, but the principal behind the 5th Step - Pray about it, listen to God after praying (silence before the Lord), share my experience with responsible others, and get feedback from responsible persons - my sponsor, others in the program that are doing the work, etc.
6 & 7 - What character defects are exposed during my Inventory, prayers, and interactions with others? Am I now willing to have the internal source of the conflict (internal wiring that keeps me churning and unable to reach, or accept, a resolution) Or, am I really wallowing in a form of self-pity, etc? Humbly ... ask God to remove my defective internal processing. Note: Step 6 is the step that separates the mature from the immature. Am I going to accept a renewed Spiritual condition/solution, or am I just playing B/S, and I really just want to justify my own B/S?
8 & 9. What in my current behavior may cause harm to others? What can I do to NOT have to make 'future' amends for potential current actions and behavior? It is important to note: a Sponsor is NOT responsible for the Sobriety of a Sponsee. The Spiritual Recovery is done by God, working in the Spirit of the person we are taking thru the Steps. Sometimes NOT taking a Sponsee, or just declining to push ourselves into a compromised condition, is the best path. It really is a God / Spiritual resolution issue.
10. Recognize the work we need to continually do while we work the program, AS LIFE HAPPENS.
11. Prayer, and listening in spiritual reverence before the Lord.
12. Bring the message to other Alcoholics / Addicts, willingly do acts of service, and just as big a part of Step 12 - PRACTICE THESE PRINCIPALS IN ALL OUR AFFAIRS.
AND ... apply the Serenity Prayer, 3rd Step Prayer, 7th Step Prayer, and 11th Step Prayer.

Conclusion:
1. We must recognize we manufacture our own misery... and ...
2. We absolutely INSIST on being Happy, Joyous and FREE.

The Steps (and prayers) work for me, when I creatively apply them to 'AS LIFE HAPPENS' situations.
RDBplus3

Ken33xx

My advice would be to stop sponsoring or cut way back. Last night a woman come up to me after the meeting to chat a bit. For ten minutes I stood there listening to her go on and on about family and work issues. She's been in AA for eleven months and has a sponsor.

But good god... I don't see how anyone outside of a trained therapist could deal with this. This woman was non-stop with the drama.

I went though this with a member I used to met up with before meetings. I spent almost two years listening to his woes and offering advice until I realize this guy wasn't going to change. He just wanted someone to hangout with. And when I explained I no longer wanted to meet up with him this fellow got upset!

Ken33xx

What Is Emotional Sobriety?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ional-sobriety

Berrybean

What does your sponsor say about it?

Tommyh

I keep saying "after this guy I am going to take a break from sponsoring"

until the next guy comes along

Ken33xx

Sponsorship is a vital part of the program but if one becomes overwhelmed working with a number of members perhaps it's a time for a break.

Ken33xx

It might be better for the OP to make her own decision on how much is enough to handle.

Running things by a sponsor and others both in/out of the program is no doubt helpful. However, I've always found the best way to grow is to make my own decisions.

Pathwaytofree

I used to be that woman.
It's hard to admit.
In my case. it wasn't because I was selfish or intentionally inconsiderate. It was because the amount of pain I was in was so incredibly insurmountable and I had no idea how to deal with it or get rid of it.
I was clueless as to how difficult and draining it must've been for the listener.

Thank you for validating that Ken.
I am sorry you had that experience.
It's a reminder that we all need to set boundaries/limits. Politely take control back of the conversation. Therapists know how to listen to this stuff without it draining them. Us lay people do not.

I've been on both sides of this example. People need to go to therapy.
People need to understand what the role of a sponsor or AA network friend is and isn't.

You didn't do anything wrong. He chose to get upset because he wasn't getting things his way (you weren't doing what he wanted/needed you to do for him--like an unintentional selfishness)--and he allowed his feelings to be hurt, instead of appreciating your time and help. I made a living amends with someone I used to be like that with, and it was a very humbling experience. There was a very healthy shift in our friendship.

I remember someone from my group who used to call me because I was on the phone list. He'd talk to me about problems/situations with his aging and ailing father, and about his business that he owned and decisions he needed to make. He'd ask me what to do. I had no idea. It would frustrate me why he was calling me to solve his problems. I had my own life to figure out and deal with. My current sponsor tells her sponsees "Go to God, the ultimate problem solver".

Pathwaytofree

BB you're one of my personal favorites on SR but I find this question frustrating and annoying. I've seen it posted before by other posters on other threads. Maybe you're catching me on an off day (I am having some health issues right now) but to me isn't it obvious that I came on here to post a new thread because I wanted to hear what my SR network thinks and has experienced.

I know what my sponsor's grandsponsor's probable opinion is about this due to something she experienced early on with sponsoring. I do not feel it is the right direction for me personally to take, due to health issues. But I respect her mode of sponsoring. She is also better at keeping her sponsees far away from her concerns. They're just part of "her girls" to her.

It's a bit tricky with my sponsor because the girls I have right now are from my former home group. I'm not sure my current sponsor would want me to sponsor right now since she'd taking me through the book again. She was quiet when we spoke about it. She was quiet when I told her that I let one of my sponsees go after discussing it with my therapist. She does not understand my health issues and it's not really for her to know details. Sometimes what my therapist says comes above what my sponsor says. I've made too many mistakes in the past doing the opposite with my former sponsor and therapist, and it effected my health so much that it nearly killed me.

Pathwaytofree

Tommy I have a sense you're an excellent sponsor and often sought out. I also have a sense that you know how to set limits, and you know when to say enough is enough. I bet your sponsees would make great sponsors, too. I hope they take sponsees on now themselves.

Pathwaytofree

This is what I'm leaning toward. It's ultimately up to me, not my sponsor.

Thank you--excellent point Ken.

Berrybean

The only reason I asked is that is that our sponsors guide us through the steps, and we can benefit from their experiences combined with an in-depth knowledge of us as individuals, which hopefully they have after guiding us through the first eleven steps. I presume though, from your response to my question that this wasn't the sponsor who first took you through the steps though, so that relationship is still forming.

And of course, you should take what your therapist says on board as well. What did your therapist say then? I think I missed that part of the picture, so apologies for that if it was in the opening post and I missed it.

I suppose the main thing is to not take on any new commitments while you pause and make decisions about ...
(A) which of your sponsees you feel you can support and which you might need to redirect.
(B) how to let them go if thats what you decide, while encouraging them to reach out to others in the fellowship for support until they find a new sponsor.

How many people are you sponsoring who still have step 4 & 5 to go? I suspect that once they're past that stage then the work won't be so gruelling. Or have you really decided that you can't sponsor at all at this stage without it affecting you adversly?

If you do let them go them honesty is the best policy, however, you don't need to give them every piece of information. If you explain that you're overcommitted and need to take a break from sponsoring for the time being, but that there is nothing personal about the decision then isn't that about the crux of it? If they choose to read other things into it, then there isn't much you can do about that. And you can encourage them to reach out to others while they're looking for a new sponsor as well, although really they should be doing that anyway.

To be honest it sounds like you and your sponsor are both thinking the same thing really. You think it's too much and likely she does as well. (But if you don't trust your own sponsor to approach her and be honest with her when you're struggling, is this really the person you want to be working with?) One of the things that she might be able to help you with is making firmer boundaries with your sponsees and others you might work with. How to encourage them to contact others in the fellowship if it's a general chat or complaint. How to communicate your time limitations. My sponsor can be a bit sharp admittedly, but she's also very clear which is great, and I know that I need to practice doing the same thing. For example, when I phone she'll tell me if it's an inconvenient time for her, or be quite direct about how long she has to chat. She's also made it clear that she goes to meetings for her own recovery, and unless it was an emergency then her meetings are not the time or place for her sponsees to approach her for in a that capacity. I'm learning slowly with this, and you know it's been one of the things that has been really helpful to me in my work and personal relationships outside AA. Being able to say no without fear. To accept that as long as I've done the next right thing then what someone else thinks of me is none of my business.

Anyway. I'm sorry if my response wasn't one that you wanted to read. And I hope you feel much, much better soon.

BB

Berrybean

Of course Ken. I wasn't thinking for one moment that she shouldn't make her own decisions. We all run things past our sponsors and counsellors and whoever's opinion we respect, but we make our own decisions. That's why there are only suggestions in AA.

However, I'm always interested in what someone's sponsor has said about a situation though, because the sponsor knows that person more intimately than we do in most cases. It's also interesting when and why people choose not to consult the one person who's there to guide them through the steps on a particular aspect of step work. (But maybe its only me who, when I don't want to speak to my sponsor about something there are some interesting reasons behind it. )

BB

Ken33xx

I have been in AA for more than 25 years and can honestly say a majority of members are sincere in their efforts to help.

That said it's also true you can receive poor if not outright terrible advise. There are those in AA who feel obligated to weigh in on everything instead of simply saying, "I don't know or I'm not sure or maybe speak with ..."

I listen to someone go on about their spouse and I know I'm only hearing one side of the story. Take it to a marriage counselor or therapist before deciding on a divorce.

I've mentioned this story before: I attended mens meeting years back and there was this young guy. Maybe 25 years old who shared about his plans for an upcoming wedding. The problem was he still had a roving eye for the ladies.

But he had this worked out and was in the middle of doing another 4th and 5th step with his sponsor.

The group all nodded in agreement.

My thinking was this guy really needed to speak with a professional marriage counselor now.

Before the wedding.

Gabe1980

Hi Pathway......I am a bit hesitant about posting on your thread but I hope that this will be helpful.

I have just taken Step 1 and someone very kindly agreed to be my sponsor today. It's taken me a long time to get here and I'm both nervous and excited about working the steps.

From the perspective of a new sponsee, it's really important for me that my sponsor is well and would take time out to care for them self, if it was needed, for any reason. If you came to me and explained a little of what you have explained above I would only want for you to take the time you need, to feel well and re-energised.

You sound like you have done an amazing job at being a sponsor for many people. I personally think it's great modelling in self-care. I'm an empath too and I work supporting families through separation and conflict. I need time out sometimes. In fact, I've just cut my working hours to focus on recovery. Maybe you need to cut down a little to focus on you? Carrying all that emotional stuff around takes it's toll. Best wishes to you.
Rachel

Pathwaytofree

Hi BB,
I understand what you're saying. Even my sponsor tells me that at this point in her sobriety she only really talks with her own sponsor about things involving her sponsees. Yes, this is my new sponsor. We're still going through the big book, starting fresh. My former sponsor, however, didn't sponsor me once I no longer needed guidance with amends. It was basically just "do what the book says" and "sponsor like I sponsored you."

I wasn't very clear on that. She and I need to discuss it further. However, she does like very much when I don't get into personal stuff with my sponsees and send them back to their therapists. I think she is trying not to step on my AA experience's toes so to speak. But she does she that sponsoring has been very challenging for me. I think she wants the decision to come from me, though. To find my own truth. She also said that I shouldn't worry about my sponsees, that many sponsees and sponsors stop working together and it won't be a big deal for my sponsees to get a new sponsor. I don't want anyone relapsing because I can't sponsor them anymore. Then again that's not responsibility, it is theirs. I can't keep anyone from not relapsing or help anyone recover--it's up to them. My job is to just guide them through the steps and put their hands in God's.

It's hard for me not to take on new commitments without worrying about what people think. My new sponsor is really into going to speaking commitments, being of service, etc. I have gone on a few speaking commitments and enjoy that a lot. But sometimes they are very draining for me.

With one of my sponsees, I was doing very well with redirecting her back to her therapist. But then something happened with some emails she sent back and forth to her ex, and I let my opinion get the best of me. I did prefix it that it was just my opinion, but this stuff is just not for me to point out what may be true or not. I should've redirected her back to therapy. Sometimes I just get so tired of saying "Sit with it in meditation with God" or "Talk to your therapist about this", because I know they want more. They want me to tell them how to fix things, or what to do/what I would do.

I love your idea about encouraging them to reach out to others in their network, if I do let them go. I did that a lot with one of my sponsees who I had to let go a while ago, because she kept bringing me her "drama of the week". I tried my best to help her, but it just became too draining to take on her problems. I specifically and clearly tried to teach her what my role was as a sponsor, but I don't think she really understood it. Or maybe she just want me to be the sponsor she wanted, and didn't care what I told her. I encouraged her to go to more open discussion meetings to talk about her stuff, and to call girls on her phone lists/network.

Right now, I have three. And the way my former home group does Step 4 and 5, it's extremely grueling. I like the way my new sponsors does 4/5. I'm even getting more out of it then I did with my former group.

That's a great point. I appreciate that. I wondered how much I should really tell them. I also worry that they'll take it personally.

That's my fear--they'll take it personally and then will be afraid to trust a new sponsor, or have a fear of abandonment.

This was very helpful. My current sponsor isn't sharp. She's clear, and concise, but I think sometimes she may just want me to figure out stuff on my own. Recently she said she will not give me her opinion unless I directly ask her for it. So there's that. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I asked her for her opinion.

Thanks BB. I appreciate your post very much.

Berrybean

The sponsee you had to let go reminded me of a horrible experience I had of sponsoring someone a couple of years ago. Flippin horrendous. It ended with her crying and saying she only "wanted a little but of love and someone to listen to" her (all on her terms and drama fuelled - getting her to focus on step work was practically impossible). Gah. I made up my mind after that to be much clearer about what a sponsors and sponsees roles are - the leaflet is great for that. I also suggest to people who ask me about finding a sponsor that they don't choose someone who they think of as a close friend. That makes things far too complicated.

The other useful thing my sponsor told me is that it is my responsibility to say no sometimes. I am working my own step 9 and owe people in my life living amends (family, partner, employers and friends). If I keep saying yes I will be no more emotionally or physicalky available to them that when I was still drinking. And we are also supposed to be working step 11. We need to leave some time and mental energy for that work, or we won't have a healthy sobriety / recovery TO pass on.

As far as saying No, I'm getting slightly better. I do still have a bit of a rehearsal if I think I'm likely to need it (esp work meetings! ) With regards to sponsorship requests, thanking them for considering you is a nice way to open it up. Explaining that you are already stretched to support your existing sponsees so you'd be doing them all a disservice to take on more at this stage is honest, and sets a good example for them later on. I know of a few meetings that are good ones for meeting potential sponsors in my area, and I make a note of these for the person so they have a good next step if they wish to follow this up. I also encourage them to get as many numbers as they can and use them so that they're kept in the middle of the boat while looking for their new sponsor. If, after all that, they think badly of me for saying no, then that's something thats their issue, not mine. It was very hard at first though as I have a codie streak a mile wide.

BB

Pathwaytofree

That sounds very familiar. I couldn't get her to focus on step work, and the excuses she gave me for not doing it were basically "the dog ate my homework" type excuses.

I've also had sponsees want to be friends with me. I've had to set very firm boundaries. I wanted to be friends with my former sponsor, and many times our long chats on the phone sounded like two friends talking to each other. She treated me like a sister. Other times she treated me like a sponsee. It was confusing. With my current sponsor, there is definitely mutual respect with boundaries. My personal opinion is maybe if you want to be friends after Step 8/9, but not before.

That's an excellent point. Sponsees can drain us, if we let them. I get it, I've been there. But we still have our own program to work.

That's a really good way to explain it.

It's a great lesson in saying no and not wearing yourself out too thin.