Av
Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 431
Personally I don't like the term AV it is a bit too neat and fake. Also it infers you have some alcoholic personality lurking in your mind, I don't buy into that.
The medical evidence on addiction is that we have established habits and thought patterns that cause us to drink. These can be destroyed and replaced by new habits and thought patterns, providing we don't drink. If we drink a chemical rush will occur and we quickly resurrect the hold habits. Addiction and habits are learned.
The medical evidence on addiction is that we have established habits and thought patterns that cause us to drink. These can be destroyed and replaced by new habits and thought patterns, providing we don't drink. If we drink a chemical rush will occur and we quickly resurrect the hold habits. Addiction and habits are learned.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
Folks
Keep in mind AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) is a key component of Rational Recovery.
You don't have to use it or even like it - but as a belief/tenet/tool some of our members share - lets discuss it with respect just as we discuss elements of AA Smart or life ring here.
No recovery debates
thanks,
Dee
Moderator
SR
__________________________________________________ __
For me no it's not a cop out.,
I realise some personify the AV as something external but its my understanding the AV as discussed in AVRT is not an external entity (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong).
If it's me, how can that be me evading responsibility?
D
Keep in mind AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) is a key component of Rational Recovery.
You don't have to use it or even like it - but as a belief/tenet/tool some of our members share - lets discuss it with respect just as we discuss elements of AA Smart or life ring here.
No recovery debates
thanks,
Dee
Moderator
SR
__________________________________________________ __
For me no it's not a cop out.,
I realise some personify the AV as something external but its my understanding the AV as discussed in AVRT is not an external entity (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong).
If it's me, how can that be me evading responsibility?
D
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 26,666
Hi keto, I think whatever we call it, it’s there. It may not rear its head for years then up it pops and maybe with an advert or a film we’re maybe fancying a drink, dressed up to imagine it’s great for us!
Our sub conscious most probably, the main thing is being prepared. I liken it crossing the road. We learn to look both ways then a double check before we cross. We don’t have to think of it now it comes naturally as does when booze pops in our head we can deal with it, dismiss it and get on with our lives.
Our sub conscious most probably, the main thing is being prepared. I liken it crossing the road. We learn to look both ways then a double check before we cross. We don’t have to think of it now it comes naturally as does when booze pops in our head we can deal with it, dismiss it and get on with our lives.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
There's a no recovery debate rule in this forum - been here several years.
It's to stop people sniping at other recovery methods - sadly it's quite common round these parts in some quarters.
I know you didn't just join us yesterday, so I'm not sure how you missed it all these years, Forwards?
Morning Glory has a great post on the difference between discussion and debate in these forums
Still - now we all know, so thanks 
D
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
I know you didn't just join us yesterday, so I'm not sure how you missed it all these years, Forwards?
Morning Glory has a great post on the difference between discussion and debate in these forums
Discussions are fine. Respectful disagreements are fine too. I consider a discussion a conversation when all parties are listening to each other and sharing ideas. Respectful disagreements are disagreements that still allow the other person their own opinion. Discussions are showing an interest in understanding why another feels a certain way. We listen intently as they explain themselves and are free to admit any error in our own ways of thinking. A discussion is a cooperative effort and seeks resolution resulting in a peaceful end even when there are disagreements. Discussions help all to gain a better understanding of both sides of the issue.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
D
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
As I said above AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique) is a key component of Rational Recovery.
Theres a long discussion here
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ined-long.html (AVRT Explained (long))
if that's too daunting google 'avrt crash course'
D
Theres a long discussion here
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ined-long.html (AVRT Explained (long))
if that's too daunting google 'avrt crash course'
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 674
Originally Posted by Gerard52 
Also it infers you have some alcoholic personality lurking in your mind,
My AV is very much me. The question is do I let that destructive aspect of my personality win out over the other more constructive aspects of me or even the 'authentic' me?
Sounds a bit crazy I guess - meaning it's not immediately intuitive. It seems to me most of us tend to believe we are just one super cohesive set of thoughts and emotions. But I don't think it's far from how our personalities actually work.
-B
PS - I tend not to take AVRT super literal. It's more of a conceptual framework for me to use to recognize patterns of thinking & behavior that are not really driven by rationality or what's good for me, but rather driven by some part of me that craves whatever it is I am craving.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
Zero to say about competing recovery methods, in fact I'm always confused and dismayed that people on either side feel the need to do so. Anyhow, the AV is the opposite of a cop-out for me. It's a technique used to identify that part of my self that is driven to feed itself poison above all other values, morals, standards and desires. It is an inherent part of your being. I suppose it could be compared to how a Catholic sees the part of themselves that has the sinner inside - something to make one self aware of, to the fight against, and to alter with actions over time.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by Keto
Isnt it a cop out or a lack of ownership for actions???
My AV can only create feelings, not actions. I am 100% responsible for my behavior.
I have the impulse to drink. I have also learned and reasoned that drinking is a horrible idea for me. Those contradictory issues originate in entirely different parts of my brain. I am comfortable separating them into different entities and referring to them as such. I have found it to be quite helpful. That works for me.
What works for you?
Sober Soldier
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,911
I agree with nonsensical
We don’t have conscious control over the part of our brain from which cravings for alcohol/drugs come from (and from which cravings for food, sex and other things essential to survival come from). The urges are going to arise whether we want them to or not, and there is nothing we can do about it.
We also have little contol over our thoughts. Anyone who has practiced mindfulness or meditation will have come to this realization. Thoughts, like cravings, simply arise in our consciousness, without our even willing them to.
Like nonsensical said, the one thing we do have 100% percent control over is our our actions, our behavior. So no matter how many urges or thoughts of drinking arise in my consciousness, and no matter how strong they are, I can choose not to act on them. That is my responsibility, and therefore I can’t use those thoughts as a copout.
We don’t have conscious control over the part of our brain from which cravings for alcohol/drugs come from (and from which cravings for food, sex and other things essential to survival come from). The urges are going to arise whether we want them to or not, and there is nothing we can do about it.
We also have little contol over our thoughts. Anyone who has practiced mindfulness or meditation will have come to this realization. Thoughts, like cravings, simply arise in our consciousness, without our even willing them to.
Like nonsensical said, the one thing we do have 100% percent control over is our our actions, our behavior. So no matter how many urges or thoughts of drinking arise in my consciousness, and no matter how strong they are, I can choose not to act on them. That is my responsibility, and therefore I can’t use those thoughts as a copout.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
In my opinion its just semantics or terminology. The AV or whatever you choose to call it will come knocking. Its up to us to ignore answering the door.
I recall many a Friday and Saturday night crawling into bed around 6:30-7:00pm and watch TV just to keep me away from the bottle.
I recall many a Friday and Saturday night crawling into bed around 6:30-7:00pm and watch TV just to keep me away from the bottle.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 182
I think AV is very real and one of, if not the, worst heads of our disease of addiction. I personally feel it makes the "one day at a time", heck sometimes one minute at a time, principle exist. Why else would we even wrestle against fact or self-preservation in wanting or continuing to drink/use? Using the AV as a cop-out for relapse or drunken actions is just that, an excuse. Staying strong and combating this is a battle we fight constantly and unfortunately lose at times.
I was walking on the wharf yesterday and saw an inviting sign for local wine tasting. "It's literally just a taste" was my instinctual, automatic thought...after everything I have been through, after knowing drinking me is a beast I never want want to wake again. My second thought was "Ha, we all know where a taste leads you..."...this was all a matter of 6 seconds. It's just that this happens 6 million times a day is our never ending fight. So yes, my opinion is that AV is very real and a force to not take lightly. It can ultimately lead to our downfall.
I was walking on the wharf yesterday and saw an inviting sign for local wine tasting. "It's literally just a taste" was my instinctual, automatic thought...after everything I have been through, after knowing drinking me is a beast I never want want to wake again. My second thought was "Ha, we all know where a taste leads you..."...this was all a matter of 6 seconds. It's just that this happens 6 million times a day is our never ending fight. So yes, my opinion is that AV is very real and a force to not take lightly. It can ultimately lead to our downfall.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 514
I don't consider AV a copout or an excuse; it's a reality. It's not literally a "voice", but that part of my mind that seeks to convince me that managing my drinking is possible. It's the voice that tries to rationalize the irrational, e.g. THIS time, as opposed to virtually every other time, you will manage a single drink just fine and feel only the "benefits" of drinking (relaxation, the pleasant side of the "euphoria" before it turns into blackout, etc. It also tries to convince me that anyone who wants me to stop drinking is trying to control me and restrict my freedom. Irrational thoughts like this pop into my mind, and that's what I consider AV.
For me, it is not a copout, but rather recognizing that it is just that - a voice that I can choose to ignore.
For me, it is not a copout, but rather recognizing that it is just that - a voice that I can choose to ignore.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
Originally Posted by Keto
My post has nothing to do with arguing about methods.....
Thanks for the responses -some good reading !
Thanks for the responses
-some good reading !It's an excellent question and I enjoyed the responses as well. Thank you for the post.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 514
I'd actually like to add that AV for me is kind of a more reasonable term than "craving" somehow. When I'm thinking of a craving, I think of something that I like and that I would enjoy consuming. I think neither of these things about alcohol, and yet I want it. Something in some area of my subconscious tells me that I want it, and if I manage to get it, that want turns into a perceived need. So what could possibly initiate such a misfire of logic in my brain? An irrational craving? That's one way to look at it. But it could also be somewhere, something telling me that it would be fun to have a drink. That it would make this boring place I'm at more fun. No good!
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