So ... I have a friend (loving an alcoholic/addict unconditionally)
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So ... I have a friend (loving an alcoholic/addict unconditionally)
I've been chewing on this one for a bit, and thought I would see if anyone else has had this sort of experience or these thoughts.
I met a man in the Spring at a meeting. We live many states apart. We became interested in each other romantically, but it did not work out for him because of the distance, and for me because, as I have come to find out, he is an alcoholic and very regular pot smoker.
Still, this man became and is one of my dearest friends.
He texts me every morning to say good morning and every evening to say good night. He touches base with me occasionally throughout the day. He is a smart, funny, kind, gentle man...who drinks way too much.
As a friend, I can love him, talk to him, have him as part of my life because I have no expectations of him being in my life in a certain way. The fact that he drinks too much is something I have accepted, detached from, and I don't harass him about it. I have no control over his choices.
If we had a romantic relationship, I would have expectations of him that he could not meet because of his drinking...that would build all kinds of resentments in me, and our relationship would have turned very toxic once I learned the extent of his drinking.
I'm not someone, I don't think, who could have a romantic relationship with an active alcoholic. I'm not that strong. I don't think I could apply the same sort of unconditional love that I do to my friend. I try to apply that same unconditional love to the alcoholic and addict members of my own family...with varying degrees of success
Maybe the reason this man came into my life is to teach me how to lovingly detach from my own family members a bit better...who knows. Anyway, just something I have been experiencing and thinking about.
I met a man in the Spring at a meeting. We live many states apart. We became interested in each other romantically, but it did not work out for him because of the distance, and for me because, as I have come to find out, he is an alcoholic and very regular pot smoker.
Still, this man became and is one of my dearest friends.
He texts me every morning to say good morning and every evening to say good night. He touches base with me occasionally throughout the day. He is a smart, funny, kind, gentle man...who drinks way too much.
As a friend, I can love him, talk to him, have him as part of my life because I have no expectations of him being in my life in a certain way. The fact that he drinks too much is something I have accepted, detached from, and I don't harass him about it. I have no control over his choices.
If we had a romantic relationship, I would have expectations of him that he could not meet because of his drinking...that would build all kinds of resentments in me, and our relationship would have turned very toxic once I learned the extent of his drinking.
I'm not someone, I don't think, who could have a romantic relationship with an active alcoholic. I'm not that strong. I don't think I could apply the same sort of unconditional love that I do to my friend. I try to apply that same unconditional love to the alcoholic and addict members of my own family...with varying degrees of success
Maybe the reason this man came into my life is to teach me how to lovingly detach from my own family members a bit better...who knows. Anyway, just something I have been experiencing and thinking about.
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Seren…..disappoint who? If you are referring to me....I certainly am no t disappointed...lol....there is nothing to be disappointed about.....
In other news...could it be that you are struggling a bit, with coming to a new way of "reframing" this relationship, in your mind.....?
(I am just taking a wild guess)…..
In other news...could it be that you are struggling a bit, with coming to a new way of "reframing" this relationship, in your mind.....?
(I am just taking a wild guess)…..
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Seren,
Yes I agree! There is something kind of fascinating to learn about detachment from what you're sharing.
I think about detachment a lot, and I learned a lot from my 1st marriage, where (thinking I was so clever in not marrying an addict) I nevertheless recreated the dynamic of my parents' alkie/codie relationship. My exH had certain stubborn qualities, I mean really stubborn, that affected out finances and our parenting and our relationship. I went into full codie mode trying to help him change, tryng to get him to see why he had to change, begging for him to change, waiting for him to change! Insanity. When I finally recognized that this patern was the old one I had learned growing up I tried detaching from his habits. I just couldn't do it. The things he did so interfered with what a normal happy healthy imperfect relationship is like, why be with him and live a life of detachment? That's not intimacy for me, I'd rather be alone and free.
Much therapy and many years later I am in a healthy normal imperfect relationship, and I can absolutely detach from the things that aggravate me about my partner. Why? Because they are not dealbreakers in terms of intimacy, they do not alter the overall loving and caring and emotionally available dynamic that we have built. I can love him unconditonally and freely. But without that baseline of trust and intimacy I wouldn't be able to practice detachment at all....
I have also been able to be friends, though not "close" I keep them at arm's length for my own mental health, with active alcoholics. I guess because their behaviors towards me are friend-like, and I am not caught up in any of the serious negative consequences of their drinking, the drama. But eventually those friends have either recovered or we're not close at all anymore because, well, they've dropped out of the normal patterns of friendship as their disease progresses....
So for me it's like an inverse scale, and a tipping point where the depth of intimacy doesn't allow me to detach fully from the other persons behavior? Maybe I need to meditate more and practice more. I use my ability to detach in all kinds of situations, at work, with my sons, in my day to day frustrations with people....but once alcoholism is involved, like with my brothers, it's like a tool that sometimes weighs 10 tons....
What makes it light and easy and available sometimes and makes it heavy and unwieldy is obviously in me. Still learnin'!
Peace,
B.
Yes I agree! There is something kind of fascinating to learn about detachment from what you're sharing.
I think about detachment a lot, and I learned a lot from my 1st marriage, where (thinking I was so clever in not marrying an addict) I nevertheless recreated the dynamic of my parents' alkie/codie relationship. My exH had certain stubborn qualities, I mean really stubborn, that affected out finances and our parenting and our relationship. I went into full codie mode trying to help him change, tryng to get him to see why he had to change, begging for him to change, waiting for him to change! Insanity. When I finally recognized that this patern was the old one I had learned growing up I tried detaching from his habits. I just couldn't do it. The things he did so interfered with what a normal happy healthy imperfect relationship is like, why be with him and live a life of detachment? That's not intimacy for me, I'd rather be alone and free.
Much therapy and many years later I am in a healthy normal imperfect relationship, and I can absolutely detach from the things that aggravate me about my partner. Why? Because they are not dealbreakers in terms of intimacy, they do not alter the overall loving and caring and emotionally available dynamic that we have built. I can love him unconditonally and freely. But without that baseline of trust and intimacy I wouldn't be able to practice detachment at all....
I have also been able to be friends, though not "close" I keep them at arm's length for my own mental health, with active alcoholics. I guess because their behaviors towards me are friend-like, and I am not caught up in any of the serious negative consequences of their drinking, the drama. But eventually those friends have either recovered or we're not close at all anymore because, well, they've dropped out of the normal patterns of friendship as their disease progresses....
So for me it's like an inverse scale, and a tipping point where the depth of intimacy doesn't allow me to detach fully from the other persons behavior? Maybe I need to meditate more and practice more. I use my ability to detach in all kinds of situations, at work, with my sons, in my day to day frustrations with people....but once alcoholism is involved, like with my brothers, it's like a tool that sometimes weighs 10 tons....
What makes it light and easy and available sometimes and makes it heavy and unwieldy is obviously in me. Still learnin'!
Peace,
B.
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I think it really shows how far you are in your own recovery Seren. It's amazing that you can have this friendship and not have the expectation to change him. When you can get to that state of mind, it really does show your own mindset is in a very healthy place.
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Not really....kind of past that. I'm thinking about all the stories I have read here over the years written by women and men who have become involved romantically with active alcoholics/addicts. It is so hard to detach under those circumstances!
With a relative, sibling, parenr, child, it is also hard to detach.
But with my friend, I seem to be able
With a relative, sibling, parenr, child, it is also hard to detach.
But with my friend, I seem to be able
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Yes, loving an alcoholic in a romantic relationship or having an alcoholic family member in your life is very different. The minute they are one of those some expectations arise.
I think with family, you (as in the world "you") didn't always know them as alcoholics, if they are a sibling, child, cousin etc. Therefore it's not surprising that there are expectations of how you would like them to be.
The "special"?? thing with addictions is that they are not stagnant, what you see today is not necessarily what you are going to see a year from now. It's shifting and generally deteriorating, how frustrating!
I think it is great that you can be there for your friend unconditionally.
I think with family, you (as in the world "you") didn't always know them as alcoholics, if they are a sibling, child, cousin etc. Therefore it's not surprising that there are expectations of how you would like them to be.
The "special"?? thing with addictions is that they are not stagnant, what you see today is not necessarily what you are going to see a year from now. It's shifting and generally deteriorating, how frustrating!
I think it is great that you can be there for your friend unconditionally.
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I'm not someone, I don't think, who could have a romantic relationship with an active alcoholic. I'm not that strong. I don't think I could apply the same sort of unconditional love that I do to my friend. I try to apply that same unconditional love to the alcoholic and addict members of my own family...with varying degrees of success
And I think you are exactly right.My XABF and I were the best of friends for 6 years before we started a 5 year relationship. I was absolutely able to accept him as he was during that friendship time....and that made me a really good friend, and I was able to love him unconditionally. We spent a ton of time together, and shared everything, and supported eachother. Two peas in a pod.
VERY soon after we decided to start a relationship, that all ended. I could no longer love him unconditionally, or without expectations that were too lofty for him to live up to....despite him still being able to accept me for who I was (for a while anyway, and until I started protesting his drinking.)
Anyway - yeah, I think you are exactly right...
And one tiny word of caution.....it can be difficult to restrain romantic feelings for someone you love, especially if there is attraction. I knew the whole time we were friends that he drank more than I wanted in a partner (among other bright red flags.) I knew and told him flat out that we would never be together. Loneliness, lust, twitterpation, whatever you want to call it eventually got the best of me and I did it anyway. Which led me here and through 5 years of hell and clawing my way out.
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Seren-
I am asking more for my own curiosity but what kind of role do you think (if any) the physical distant plays in your ability to detach?
I ask because I think it helped me when I was first dating my loved one that brought me here to have a better handle on myself and better boundaries.
I am asking more for my own curiosity but what kind of role do you think (if any) the physical distant plays in your ability to detach?
I ask because I think it helped me when I was first dating my loved one that brought me here to have a better handle on myself and better boundaries.
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Oh, I imagine that physical separation helps quite a bit! It has helped me detach from my stepson--but not completely. It helped me to maintain a relationship with my sister while she was actively drinking/using.
I can't emphasize enough how much *not* having a front row to active addiction helps!!
I suppose that, ideally, I would like to feel this same way about the others in my life who are active in their addictions. I guess what is interesting to me is that this is the first person with whom I have been able to completely detach--and yet still love very much.
My friend knows I love him. He knows that I will always be someone he can spend time with as long as he's not in "rave" mode. And we do still spend time together when one or the other of us travels--we take in a game (baseball, hockey), and it's fine--it's good, in fact. But if he knows he's going to have one of his epic weekend benders to not contact me as much, and I don't question him about it or get upset.
That "not getting upset" bit is kind of new for me. I like it And I hope to achieve that level of detached love with my family members...
I can't emphasize enough how much *not* having a front row to active addiction helps!!
I suppose that, ideally, I would like to feel this same way about the others in my life who are active in their addictions. I guess what is interesting to me is that this is the first person with whom I have been able to completely detach--and yet still love very much.
My friend knows I love him. He knows that I will always be someone he can spend time with as long as he's not in "rave" mode. And we do still spend time together when one or the other of us travels--we take in a game (baseball, hockey), and it's fine--it's good, in fact. But if he knows he's going to have one of his epic weekend benders to not contact me as much, and I don't question him about it or get upset.
That "not getting upset" bit is kind of new for me. I like it
And I hope to achieve that level of detached love with my family members...
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Originally Posted by firebolt 
...
And one tiny word of caution.....it can be difficult to restrain romantic feelings for someone you love, especially if there is attraction. I knew the whole time we were friends that he drank more than I wanted in a partner (among other bright red flags.) I knew and told him flat out that we would never be together. Loneliness, lust, twitterpation, whatever you want to call it eventually got the best of me and I did it anyway. Which led me here and through 5 years of hell and clawing my way out.
And one tiny word of caution.....it can be difficult to restrain romantic feelings for someone you love, especially if there is attraction. I knew the whole time we were friends that he drank more than I wanted in a partner (among other bright red flags.) I knew and told him flat out that we would never be together. Loneliness, lust, twitterpation, whatever you want to call it eventually got the best of me and I did it anyway. Which led me here and through 5 years of hell and clawing my way out.
Lol!
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If I ever meet another guy and I find out he's an alcoholic or a recovered alcoholic, it's OVER. I don't care if we are just starting out or 6m to 5 years in. Is that unfair to people who actively work a program and live a successful life sober? Yep... it sure is unfair. But I'm not going to buy, pick or choose rotten apples when around the corner... down the road... over yonder... there are better choices. I'm fine with someone who feels that is selfish. I was with AH who was 20 years sober and he threw it all away, packed OUR bags and took us to alcohell.
Nope. Never gonna happen. I don't have time for ANYONE active in any addiction. That's my line. Don't cross it.
Nope. Never gonna happen. I don't have time for ANYONE active in any addiction. That's my line. Don't cross it.
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Originally Posted by Seren
I totally get that, Rotzy....completely!
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This is a beautiful post to read. I’m glad you put it here It probably is easier to detach from the behaviour and love the person in a friendship. I have a thirty year relationship with an active alcoholic and I can agree that at times it is very hard to cope, and at other times, I am able to love him unconditionally and peacefully, count our blessings and appreciate who he is (and relate to your post)
It probably is easier to detach from the behaviour and love the person in a friendship. I have a thirty year relationship with an active alcoholic and I can agree that at times it is very hard to cope, and at other times, I am able to love him unconditionally and peacefully, count our blessings and appreciate who he is (and relate to your post)
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The biggest danger any recovering alcoholic can have is a relationship with an active drunk. When we put down alcohol we unconsciously seek other ways of feeling better. I turned to food and shopping until I got stable in recovery.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Yes, loving an alcoholic in a romantic relationship or having an alcoholic family member in your life is very different. The minute they are one of those some expectations arise.
My friends' spending habits don't affect me. Whether or not any of them want children or not has not bearing on me. Their religious beliefs are their business, not mine. We can discuss them but I am not affected by their practices. Their drinking (if any of them do) is a factor for them to deal with, and their families. A life partner's lifestyle affects you more than other family members' choices, and more than your friends' choices.
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Great conversation!!
I'm hoping that I can learn to be as lovingly detached from certain family members as I am with my friend. I'm learning a lot just knowing this man, and maybe I can apply these lessons to my stepson in particular--but to other family members as well.
Yeah, once romance gets involved, the whole world shifts, right? And that's as it should be...I would want a romantic partner to be available to me in a way that a friend simply is not. For me, that is where active alcoholism/addiction and romance just don't mix. Someone active in their drinking/drugging just is not available to anyone or anything other than their DOC, ime.
Progress, not perfection
I'm hoping that I can learn to be as lovingly detached from certain family members as I am with my friend. I'm learning a lot just knowing this man, and maybe I can apply these lessons to my stepson in particular--but to other family members as well.
Yeah, once romance gets involved, the whole world shifts, right? And that's as it should be...I would want a romantic partner to be available to me in a way that a friend simply is not. For me, that is where active alcoholism/addiction and romance just don't mix. Someone active in their drinking/drugging just is not available to anyone or anything other than their DOC, ime.
Progress, not perfection
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