Not a newcomer, but anxiety and cravings
No Dogma Please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Not a newcomer, but anxiety and cravings
Hey all.
I've now been sober for 15 months, and my sobriety is pretty rock solid. Inpatient, 12 Step, Outpatient, Cognitive Therapy, individual therapy, dual diagnosis treatment, AVRT/Rational Recovery. Through all of that I found a pretty wide sober path. I've simply taken drinking off the table, for good, and until recently it really wasn't much of an issue any more.
I haven't worked in 17 months. Pretty much every professional that I encountered during my recovery advised me that my job was making me sick for a lot of reasons. I was there for 15 years, but it changed in the last five, moved away from what I'm good at and became 100% about the parts of my job that I did NOT enjoy and wasn't particularly suited for. The organization had gone through a lot of changes and I was shifted over to a very toxic group, both peers and above. Drinking definitely escalated as things grew worse and worse, and it wasn't just me. People were up and leaving out of the blue, and weren't being replaced, so on top of everything else, the workload kept increasing.
It was time to go. MORE than time. So I never returned.
The industry itself had grown more and more toxic, and was no longer fun. So I completely switched careers. I took and passed the state real estate licensing exams (on my 1 year sobriety date!) and have signed on with a very prestigious sales/agency group, with a lot of established procedures. It's a completely new way to work, 100% commission, tons of cold calling. It's going to be tough, but a fantastic start into the industry. Starting over at 57 isn't exactly easy, but it's better than going back to a job and an industry that has a pretty high probability of contributing to a relapse...or at least a pretty miserable existence, there's no upside to working there again.
I start tomorrow and I'm oscillating between quietly confident and utterly terrified. I had a dream last night that I was packing up an old storage locker because I was graduating from college. There was a ton of crap in it that I hadn't seen in years, and it was very disorganized. I had decided to pitch everything when I found a bunch of bottles of bourbon and took a shot. I passed out (in the dream) and woke up (in the dream) to my wife (I'm gay and unmarried) saying she'd never had a fight like that with me, but I'd gotten so drunk I passed out and she had to haul me around in a wagon (my subconscious isn't very subtle).
In real life I got up, went downstairs and made coffee. There's a bottle of coconut rum in the fridge that my roommates had from a party. It's been in there for months. This morning I REALLY wanted to take a hit of it. Also been dreaming of some xanax. It was the first real craving I'd had in over a year, and it scared me a bit. I could easily say no, replay the tape of where that one sip would lead, think rationally of how horrible the anxiety would be when the alcohol wore off, 10x worse! It all worked. Wasn't all that hard, as the AVRT training really does work. The addictive voice has an ally, and her name is ANXIETY. So I went hiking, stopped for a bottle of ginger ale (holy crap...60 grams of sugar!) and some antacids and Pepto-Bismol. My biggest anxiety symptom is stomach flip flops and nausea, and the Pepto will help.
This isn't the first time this has cropped up in the past two weeks. I've brought it up with my therapist, and had a medication follow up my psychiatrist, and spoke quite frankly about it. We upped my wellbutrin dose, as the anxiety is at the worst in the middle of the night and when I wake up in the morning, when the time release wellbutrin would be wearing off. As I have bipolar II disorder, mania is always a concern when upping antidepressants, so we're keeping an eye on it. Benzos as antianxiety medications aren't even being considered given my addiction history. I'm also going to return to my very small AA home group next Friday. I haven't seen them for nearly a year, and it will be good if nothing else to get some support and let them know I'm still sober, and didn't disappear to go out. My recovery has mostly been about AVRT and Rational Recovery and not so much about 12 Steps, but I think if nothing else, it can't hurt to get the reinforcement from the group. It's only about 5 regulars and they have all been sober for years, all older black men that I really relate to. Unlike many, I don't feel that AVRT and 12 Step are completely mutually exclusive.
I just wanted to share here. I think I have a handle on it, but it's hard AF, this is the first big challenge I've had pretty much once I got through the first 120 days and outpatient therapy. So glad I have this site.
Comments and advice appreciated.
I've now been sober for 15 months, and my sobriety is pretty rock solid. Inpatient, 12 Step, Outpatient, Cognitive Therapy, individual therapy, dual diagnosis treatment, AVRT/Rational Recovery. Through all of that I found a pretty wide sober path. I've simply taken drinking off the table, for good, and until recently it really wasn't much of an issue any more.
I haven't worked in 17 months. Pretty much every professional that I encountered during my recovery advised me that my job was making me sick for a lot of reasons. I was there for 15 years, but it changed in the last five, moved away from what I'm good at and became 100% about the parts of my job that I did NOT enjoy and wasn't particularly suited for. The organization had gone through a lot of changes and I was shifted over to a very toxic group, both peers and above. Drinking definitely escalated as things grew worse and worse, and it wasn't just me. People were up and leaving out of the blue, and weren't being replaced, so on top of everything else, the workload kept increasing.
It was time to go. MORE than time. So I never returned.
The industry itself had grown more and more toxic, and was no longer fun. So I completely switched careers. I took and passed the state real estate licensing exams (on my 1 year sobriety date!) and have signed on with a very prestigious sales/agency group, with a lot of established procedures. It's a completely new way to work, 100% commission, tons of cold calling. It's going to be tough, but a fantastic start into the industry. Starting over at 57 isn't exactly easy, but it's better than going back to a job and an industry that has a pretty high probability of contributing to a relapse...or at least a pretty miserable existence, there's no upside to working there again.
I start tomorrow and I'm oscillating between quietly confident and utterly terrified. I had a dream last night that I was packing up an old storage locker because I was graduating from college. There was a ton of crap in it that I hadn't seen in years, and it was very disorganized. I had decided to pitch everything when I found a bunch of bottles of bourbon and took a shot. I passed out (in the dream) and woke up (in the dream) to my wife (I'm gay and unmarried) saying she'd never had a fight like that with me, but I'd gotten so drunk I passed out and she had to haul me around in a wagon (my subconscious isn't very subtle).
In real life I got up, went downstairs and made coffee. There's a bottle of coconut rum in the fridge that my roommates had from a party. It's been in there for months. This morning I REALLY wanted to take a hit of it. Also been dreaming of some xanax. It was the first real craving I'd had in over a year, and it scared me a bit. I could easily say no, replay the tape of where that one sip would lead, think rationally of how horrible the anxiety would be when the alcohol wore off, 10x worse! It all worked. Wasn't all that hard, as the AVRT training really does work. The addictive voice has an ally, and her name is ANXIETY. So I went hiking, stopped for a bottle of ginger ale (holy crap...60 grams of sugar!) and some antacids and Pepto-Bismol. My biggest anxiety symptom is stomach flip flops and nausea, and the Pepto will help.
This isn't the first time this has cropped up in the past two weeks. I've brought it up with my therapist, and had a medication follow up my psychiatrist, and spoke quite frankly about it. We upped my wellbutrin dose, as the anxiety is at the worst in the middle of the night and when I wake up in the morning, when the time release wellbutrin would be wearing off. As I have bipolar II disorder, mania is always a concern when upping antidepressants, so we're keeping an eye on it. Benzos as antianxiety medications aren't even being considered given my addiction history. I'm also going to return to my very small AA home group next Friday. I haven't seen them for nearly a year, and it will be good if nothing else to get some support and let them know I'm still sober, and didn't disappear to go out. My recovery has mostly been about AVRT and Rational Recovery and not so much about 12 Steps, but I think if nothing else, it can't hurt to get the reinforcement from the group. It's only about 5 regulars and they have all been sober for years, all older black men that I really relate to. Unlike many, I don't feel that AVRT and 12 Step are completely mutually exclusive.
I just wanted to share here. I think I have a handle on it, but it's hard AF, this is the first big challenge I've had pretty much once I got through the first 120 days and outpatient therapy. So glad I have this site.
Comments and advice appreciated.
ours de petit cerveau
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,630
I think it's perfectly natural for anyone - sober addict or not - to have some anxiety about going back into the workplace after an extended break, & particularly going in to a brand new industry with many unknowns. exciting on the one hand, but a little scary too.
for the addict though, I think thoughts that you may not have had since getting sober can bubble up to the surface & can trigger the automatic responses from when we were drinking/using if we're not prepared for them. you have the CBT tools to process them, but they may need to be consciously processed the first few times whilst you lay down some new neural pathways. as for dreams, well, dreams are always a firestorm if we have things rumbling away in the subconscious, particularly anxieties.
I'm in a similar situation, or will be soon. I haven't worked full-time since getting sober, although I've done a few bits of consultancy to keep me ticking over financially & am going to have to start looking for work fairly shortly. the first little anxieties are showing up, even though I'll be going back into the same industry as previously & it'll be more of a known quantity for me.
good luck, I'm sure it'll work out great for you. your postings always come over as intelligent & self-aware, so stay vigilant, keep close to your support & do what you need to to remain safe.
for the addict though, I think thoughts that you may not have had since getting sober can bubble up to the surface & can trigger the automatic responses from when we were drinking/using if we're not prepared for them. you have the CBT tools to process them, but they may need to be consciously processed the first few times whilst you lay down some new neural pathways. as for dreams, well, dreams are always a firestorm if we have things rumbling away in the subconscious, particularly anxieties.
I'm in a similar situation, or will be soon. I haven't worked full-time since getting sober, although I've done a few bits of consultancy to keep me ticking over financially & am going to have to start looking for work fairly shortly. the first little anxieties are showing up, even though I'll be going back into the same industry as previously & it'll be more of a known quantity for me.
good luck, I'm sure it'll work out great for you. your postings always come over as intelligent & self-aware, so stay vigilant, keep close to your support & do what you need to to remain safe.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 322
Oh gosh, you have been on such an enormous journey in 17 months that I would be surprised if you weren't feeling the way you are! You are going back into the workplace, a new career path, and it's a huge deal so your AV is tempting you to deal with such a massive life change in your old way of coping! Like they say when you are quitting, you have to retrain your brain when you are doing things you used to do that you don't drink any more, and I guess this is the first time you are doing this so it's about retraining.
Congratulations on the new job, I hope it all goes well tomorrow, you should be extremely proud of your achievements.
Congratulations on the new job, I hope it all goes well tomorrow, you should be extremely proud of your achievements.
No Dogma Please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Thanks guys.
I think the psychiatrist (it's an addiction and mood disorder clinic) nailed it. He said I wasn't having cravings because I wanted to PARTY, but I still am feeling the need to self-medicate the anxiety. Isolating like that helped, even though the end result would be the same. Addiction, more rehab, and all the "yets" I avoided by stopping would probably not be "yets" anymore.
OK, I need to get back to my webinar!
PS. I asked the roommates to keep the rum in their room. Just to be sure!
I think the psychiatrist (it's an addiction and mood disorder clinic) nailed it. He said I wasn't having cravings because I wanted to PARTY, but I still am feeling the need to self-medicate the anxiety. Isolating like that helped, even though the end result would be the same. Addiction, more rehab, and all the "yets" I avoided by stopping would probably not be "yets" anymore.
OK, I need to get back to my webinar!
PS. I asked the roommates to keep the rum in their room. Just to be sure!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
I'm glad you posted and vented MM = I think anyone would be daunted going back to work, in a new high pressure industry where you have to survive purely on what you bring in. I don't think anyone, alcoholic or not, would not be a little scared.
But,.,,I think you';re gonna make it =- you obviously are a great salesman and have a lot of self confidence and you are clearly someone who can converse easily with others.
I think you're going to do great - you'll not only survive but thrive
best wishes man
D
But,.,,I think you';re gonna make it =- you obviously are a great salesman and have a lot of self confidence and you are clearly someone who can converse easily with others.
I think you're going to do great - you'll not only survive but thrive
best wishes man
D
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Heyyy, I'm getting ready to actually start working in real estate too and find myself equally terrified. I got my license, went through the training.. then quit drinking. I knew I wasn't on solid enough ground at the time so I haven't been pursuing it. But it's getting to a now or never point.. It's not an easy career path but the potential is there for it to be very lucrative. Would you want to get into investing? I know wholesaling is a gray area but I'm seriously considering it since I don't have the capital for flips yet.
Starting out I'm going to keep my bar job which is super part time and umm just hope it works out trying to do both for a while. But I've been trying to get myself in the right mindset.. reading ridiculous books like Think and Grow Rich, and You are a Badass. Another quote that stuck with me from somewhere is "if you want to take the island, burn the ships". Don't give yourself an out.. drinking/using being the biggest out there is of course.
Cravings happen, it's good that you posted.. I'm confident you'll have the tools you need to overcome them. As for the anxiety, it really is about fear of the unknown, which can be paralyzing. So although I don't see it from a 12 step perspective I am trying to get better at just "letting go" of the things I can't control. Anyway sorry that's just a bunch of rambling but good luck on your fist day, I'm sure you'll kill it
Starting out I'm going to keep my bar job which is super part time and umm just hope it works out trying to do both for a while. But I've been trying to get myself in the right mindset.. reading ridiculous books like Think and Grow Rich, and You are a Badass. Another quote that stuck with me from somewhere is "if you want to take the island, burn the ships". Don't give yourself an out.. drinking/using being the biggest out there is of course.
Cravings happen, it's good that you posted.. I'm confident you'll have the tools you need to overcome them. As for the anxiety, it really is about fear of the unknown, which can be paralyzing. So although I don't see it from a 12 step perspective I am trying to get better at just "letting go" of the things I can't control. Anyway sorry that's just a bunch of rambling but good luck on your fist day, I'm sure you'll kill it
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Your big day is tomorrow! My goodness. Knowing you, you will completely slay it. You have been slaying everything left and right this entire time you've been sober. Losing weight, getting out there, making changes, getting fit, hanging with friends, dating, moving ahead with a career change: mindful you've SO got this.
If it helps recently on vacation I had a craving for beer so intense that I could barely deal with it. I knew I wouldn't drink because I don't but that doesn't mean the damn craving wasn't there. I ate a bunch of sugar to cope with it and that has o f course it's own ramifications that suck but I got through it: not well as I think it contributed to my injury but some times you just have to get through.
I'm glad you didn't drink. I'd have been shocked if you did: you're a nondrinker now. We have taken it off the table. Damned if we aren't still alcoholics, though.
Best wishes tomorrow.
If it helps recently on vacation I had a craving for beer so intense that I could barely deal with it. I knew I wouldn't drink because I don't but that doesn't mean the damn craving wasn't there. I ate a bunch of sugar to cope with it and that has o f course it's own ramifications that suck but I got through it: not well as I think it contributed to my injury but some times you just have to get through.
I'm glad you didn't drink. I'd have been shocked if you did: you're a nondrinker now. We have taken it off the table. Damned if we aren't still alcoholics, though.
Best wishes tomorrow.
No Dogma Please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Thanks all.
At first I'm concentrating on residential, and the group I joined makes you a buyer's agent first. Get good at that, and you start doing sellers and listings and such. OF course if you bring a listing into the group they will love you long time.
Given my business background and MBA, I think working with investors will be a natural flow at the right time. My house has doubled since I bought it in 2013 so I have a ton of equity to invest in rental property on my own account, and pyramid it into more property as it appreciates. Oldest game in the SoCal investing book.
Just gotta get through these first few weeks and transactions. TONS of cold calls!
Anyone looking to buy or sell a house in LA, please PM me, or anyone you know who does.
Sorry, shameless plug!
I think I may have got this....
At first I'm concentrating on residential, and the group I joined makes you a buyer's agent first. Get good at that, and you start doing sellers and listings and such. OF course if you bring a listing into the group they will love you long time.
Given my business background and MBA, I think working with investors will be a natural flow at the right time. My house has doubled since I bought it in 2013 so I have a ton of equity to invest in rental property on my own account, and pyramid it into more property as it appreciates. Oldest game in the SoCal investing book.
Just gotta get through these first few weeks and transactions. TONS of cold calls!
Anyone looking to buy or sell a house in LA, please PM me, or anyone you know who does.
Sorry, shameless plug!
I think I may have got this....
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
You were wise to share the pressure and the spectre of the dream with us. We can act as a heatsink for you as you navigate this whole new course!
I agree with Dee, though. I think your capability, people skills, and general can-do spirit will make you a natural at real estate.
Best of luck today!
I agree with Dee, though. I think your capability, people skills, and general can-do spirit will make you a natural at real estate.
Best of luck today!
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
Hi MindfulMan,
Good luck with the new job!
About the part: this isn't the first time this has cropped up in the past two weeks.
Just over two weeks ago this post from you seemed strange to me.
"Other than the fact that all 'NA' beer does contain a small amount of alcohol, there is now a new study out that seems to support the theory that it can cause a relapse for recovering alcoholics."
Yada, yada. Something about a lab study with rats, the smell and brain reaction with anticipation from the smell.
YMMV
Good luck with the new job!
About the part: this isn't the first time this has cropped up in the past two weeks.
Just over two weeks ago this post from you seemed strange to me.
Originally Posted by MindfulMan 
I had two non-alcoholic beers, one last night and one tonight. It had nothing to do with a craving, I just wanted something to drink with some delicious small plates food, they had it, and it wasn't awful. They had the same brand at the restaurant tonight so I had anther one.
My drinking fake beer had nothing to do with wanting to get drunk. I really didn't. I don't drink alcohol anymore. But I still wanted to give it to SR so people I know and trust can call ******** in case I'm really poking the bear.
My drinking fake beer had nothing to do with wanting to get drunk. I really didn't. I don't drink alcohol anymore. But I still wanted to give it to SR so people I know and trust can call ******** in case I'm really poking the bear.
Yada, yada. Something about a lab study with rats, the smell and brain reaction with anticipation from the smell.
YMMV
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
My guy! I was shocked when I clicked on this post this morning and realized it was you who had written it. And I say that in the most respectful and honest way. Not that I believe any of us is out of the woods when it comes to lifelong sobriety. It's just I have always been inspired informed and motivated by your journey. So basically I'm saying you have to stay sober for me! :-)
Anyhow, I can't speak to AA as I am an avrt guy. I can say though that I believe that your
desire to drink has much to do with what Jung would call one of the archaic complexes of avoidance. Have you ever read James Hollis? Look him up, I really do recommend him. I think the anxiety that you must and should be experiencing prior to this new journey in your life is bringing up the old habits. One of the old habits I think many of us alcoholics have, from youth, is the pattern of avoidance. I could do a deep dive on it right now, but I will spare you that. Anyhow kudos to you for not taking a swig. I'm mad your roommates even keep that kind of crap in the fridge. But I don't hold it against them.
Congrats on this new phase of your professional life. Even just from your posts on this site it seems like a great fit for you. Keep checking in with us, as always. And check out James Hollis. His writings on meaning, psychology and midlife have been very instructive for me during this phase of my life and have fortified my sobriety.
Stay strong MM. It's not easy, but a better life was never going to be the easy way.
Anyhow, I can't speak to AA as I am an avrt guy. I can say though that I believe that your
desire to drink has much to do with what Jung would call one of the archaic complexes of avoidance. Have you ever read James Hollis? Look him up, I really do recommend him. I think the anxiety that you must and should be experiencing prior to this new journey in your life is bringing up the old habits. One of the old habits I think many of us alcoholics have, from youth, is the pattern of avoidance. I could do a deep dive on it right now, but I will spare you that. Anyhow kudos to you for not taking a swig. I'm mad your roommates even keep that kind of crap in the fridge. But I don't hold it against them.
Congrats on this new phase of your professional life. Even just from your posts on this site it seems like a great fit for you. Keep checking in with us, as always. And check out James Hollis. His writings on meaning, psychology and midlife have been very instructive for me during this phase of my life and have fortified my sobriety.
Stay strong MM. It's not easy, but a better life was never going to be the easy way.
Ocean Lover!
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: You know nothing Jon Snow - UK
Posts: 2,604
Hi MM, you are bound to be nervous and anxious starting a new career with all those unknowns, it's absolutely natural. I also worked in a very toxic industry consulting for large organisations and have taken the rest of this year out just to concentrate on myself and my sobriety, not even sure I will return to that kind of work as it was a large contributing factor to my drinking. Don't think I can add any more than what lessgravity said, I think he hit the nail on the head. Just wanted to wish you all the best, you will do absolutely fine and in a month you'll wonder why you were so nervous. xx
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,469
MM, I'm glad you posted.
I think you are doing so well! It's understandable that you are anxious at this time when you are launching a new career and it's Day 1 on the new job. It sounds like you're ready to move ahead and that you are keeping a close eye on medications.
I wish you all the best as you start your new career.
I think you are doing so well! It's understandable that you are anxious at this time when you are launching a new career and it's Day 1 on the new job. It sounds like you're ready to move ahead and that you are keeping a close eye on medications.
I wish you all the best as you start your new career.
No Dogma Please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
First day was good. I thought I'd escaped making cold calls but they asked me to do some from home as I was headed out. The anticipation was worse than the reality. Will do 25 more today plus prepare for my training with our group leader on Thursday and Friday.
A strange blend of excitement and anxiety!
Zero cravings, which is good. The upped dose of Wellbutrin is also helping, I think.
A strange blend of excitement and anxiety!
Zero cravings, which is good. The upped dose of Wellbutrin is also helping, I think.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
