Pathwaytofree

Page 101, Working with others:

"So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.

You will note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
I can probably answer my own question with those 2 paragraphs. But I figured I should ask, because I don't know if these would apply:

I was invited to a "yoga-at-the-winery" with a friend of mine who I don't get to see to often because of her busy personal and work schedule. She also has invited me to local beer breweries to socialize, see musicians & drink.

I no longer feel anything being with people who are drinking. But I really don't enjoy being around it--the ambiance is uncomfortable nowadays. There's no temptation, and there's no seeking vicarious pleasure from watching people drink.

I'm fine with drinking sparkling water and lemon, although people I'm with think it's weird. Whatever. They'll probably stop inviting me, anyway, because my not drinking probably makes them have to look at their own drinking.

But a winery? A beer brewery? I just don't know. Would that be weird and pressing my luck a bit too much?

I wish I could find friends who don't revolve their lives around drinking, eating, shopping. :-(

kevlarsjal2

Hi Pathwaytofree! In your situation I'd probably say to that friend something like "Yoga sounds amazing but I'm not a huge fan of wineries/breweries, do you think we could find a similar event somewhere else?"
Or you could just suggest another activity that you'd organise, like going to an exhibition etc.
I assume this is a friend who doesn't know about your alcoholism. If she does though, I'd just tell her that you don't mind meeting at a restaurant or bar but that activities that revolve that much around booze make you feel a bit weird. I'm sure she'll understand

Ken33xx

I tried hanging out with my drinking friends after getting sober but realized without the booze we really didn't have much in common.

Such relationships have pretty much faded away.

Lautca

Page 101, Working with others:
"So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't. "
Huh?
In my book, legitimate reasons for being there are not participatory. Legitimate things are like the plumbing contractor or the air conditioner repair crew who arrives to make emergency repairs, which are bad enough when one of those guys is trying to get sober but has to be there or go out of business! Going there for reasons of joining in the alcohol-consuming activities/festivities but not consuming alcohol are obviously not legitimate because they are not in the best interests of an alcoholic trying to get sober or maintain sobriety. Quit skirting the issue by covering it with fluffy okay-sounding language! If you want to go someplace and tempt yourself or "Providence" - now that is a term that takes away all responsibility for messing yourself up - go ahead, but just be ready to accept the obvious and have a new First Day Sober starting point!

When growing up (or no longer accepting being a baby in an adult body) and becoming an adult, WHICH IS OFTEN THE BIGGEST PART OF GETTING SOBER, one of the things you MUST learn is to know when either YOU or someone is Bulloneying YOU! This looks to me to be a big load of Bulloney, I don't care what kind of credentials and Ph.D's (that's short for "Piled higher and Deeper") are stacked behind that advice! Uh, uh, nope, just don't go near alcohol when getting sober or after getting sober, and for goodness sake, PEOPLE NEED TO QUIT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO GET NEAR BOOZE, it seems that page 101 may be out of context. You are either committed to sobriety, or not. I guess you can tell I don't approve of whoever wrote that, what did they have in mind, sending good, once un-sober, but now sober people back down to Rock Bottom to start over? Jeez!

I've been sober going on 21 years, and the way I did it is I have been sober one single day at a time. It isn't magic, just one day at a time 7,584 days in a row as of right now. That means I left the booze alone for 7,584 days in a row, and I did that by not engaging in activities where booze was involved.

Okay, I'm off my soap box. Good Luck!

Lautca

fini

well, PTF, do you have any good social or personal reason?
is this the only way you can get to spend time with her? do you feel okay doing this?
i have certainly gone to celebrations in restaurants where there was a free "order whatever drinks you want" offer, and i had good reason.
check your motive, both for considering going or not going.
personally, i would find combining yoga and winery off-putting, but not "illegitimate"

and Lautca, that quote PTF used is from the AA big book, just fyi.

tomsteve

Would that be weird and pressing my luck a bit too much?

in all honesty, i think you already know the answer.

Pathwaytofree

Lautca, this is an Alcoholism 12-step subforum thread. The quote is from the big book, aka "Alcoholics Anonymous." It is from the chapter entitled "Working with Others, which contains the suggestions for Step 12. The steps are the suggested program of action that alcoholics take to recover from our disease of alcoholism.

Perhaps you've heard of the book, or seen it on a chair at an AA meeting? I'm sure you must've moved it in order to take a seat. I've heard they even have those books at open discussion meetings. It's the one that talks about how to have a spiritual awakening by taking the 12 steps so we recover from alcoholism? It's the book that does not state that "meeting makers make it", "just don't drink and go to meetings", or "treat your sponsees or other people in AA like sh*t, humiliate them, yell at them, and have power and control over them, throw "isms" out them, and act all superior over them." Nor does it say that the longer you're sober, the better a recovered alcoholic you are.

The point of the passage is to say that if an alcoholic is spiritually fit, they can be around alcohol IF they are there for legitimate reasons. For example, if you're going to a birthday celebration at a bar, you can go if you're comfortable being in that atmosphere and won't feel tempted, because your reasons is to celebrate the person's birthday. But if you're going to live vicariously through the drunk people, then no, that's not legitimate.

I was merely trying to decide if I wanted to do yoga in a winery. You know, outside around grapes. I didn't have any plans to walk into the store where they sell the wine, stare at the wine bottles and salivate. The smell alone will now make me sick, thankfully. I am capable enough to look within to find the truth about my current level of spiritual fitness. You know, the thing you are when you no longer have white knuckle sobriety? But I wanted to hear from others what they thought about it, since well it IS a winery after all. But how different is that then a birthday party at a bar or a restaurant with a bar?

Perhaps you didn't read my post clearly. What I wrote is in quotes. I marked as being from page 101. It's from the big book of AA. Again, it's Step 12. You're on a Step 12 sub forum of AA. The Big Book was written in the 1930s and so far it's suggestions have worked well for millions of people since then.

Wow.

Do you talk to your sponsees like this? Oh and for the record, Bill Wilson (you know, the alcoholic who wrote the big book? Yeah him) didn't have a PhD in anything.

Congratulations on your sobriety.
So you've never gone into a restaurant where alcohol is being served?
Never went to a get together where everyone's drinking?
Gone to a wedding where everyone's doing a champagne toast?
Been to a pub where your friends sit at a bar before dinner and had a water and a chat?
Attend a New Year's party where people toast the new year?
In 21 years you've never been around alcohol? Jeez. There was even alcohol at the book club I go to.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks Tomsteve. You're absolutely right. I'm just getting tired of every social function revolving around alcohol. And now something spiritual like yoga is revolving around alcohol. Exercise groups revolving around beer. Instead of feeling sorry for myself about this, I need to work on my gratitude for my recovery.

Pathwaytofree

Yes
No

I'm not sure. The premise bothers me. Yoga is supposed to be spiritual. Being in a winery is not spiritual. Being around grape vines outdoors doing yoga, that's spiritual because it's nature. But knowing those grapes are going to be turned into wine--definitely not spiritual. Ugh.

Same here. For me, it seems to get easier with time.

I think my motive for going is becoming more clearer as I'm answering your post. Thank you for that.

It helps a lot to read those words. I had to ask myself even if it's off-putting, do I still want to go? And I think the more I'm processing things, the answer is "no". I could convince myself by saying "Well it's not like I'd be going on a guided walking tour of the winery, or just standing around at wine tastings sipping water" but still....it's off putting. Your words summed it up perfectly. Thank you fini.

I wish people would socialize without the booze. I mean, I can't even go to a ladies' night sip-and-paint night which looks like fun minus the wine of course. My friends who go to outdoor concerts drink first and then sneak in booze so that's out. I've gone to minor league baseball games but there's beer everywhere and I've gotten beer spilled on me. Why does everything have to involve alcohol?

tomsteve

that is rather crazy.hey- lets have a cycling class and offer beer to rehydrate!

theres gotta be some healthy yoga classes/groups around ya maybe?

Pathwaytofree

Thanks! This is a great idea. No, she doesn't know yet that I don't drink. We don't see each other that often. I've tried to suggest other activities with her, but she's always busy with her family.

Pathwaytofree

Tomsteve I can always count on you to make me laugh!!!! You_Rock_

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had the same thought. Bikers and runners seem to enjoy "rehydrating" with beer. It makes no sense. Beer has nothing to do with health, fitness, or especially rehydration!!

(Moping my head and shuffling my feet a little) yeah I know.... but I hate having to try to make new friends and I wanted to see this friend again. I'm being silly, I know.

PS - And you're right. I do know the answer. But I needed to be reminded of that.

Pathwaytofree

It's a tough realization. But I know I don't have to make it out to be that way. I think I'm listening to my mind too much on this subject. The mind will always want us drunk.......

Maudcat

I agree, PTF. Alcohol seems to be around a lot of social activities.
I was surprised to learn that even Halloween trick or treating involves drinking (for the adults, of course) and is a bit of a thing.
My spouse and I were interested in going to a food truck night at a local historic location til we learned that it was less about food and more about craft beer tasting.
So...that’s out.
As to yoga at the winery, I think that simply reflects the popularity of yoga and the different ways organizations try to brand it to keep it fresh and interesting for people.
Yoga on the beach, Yoga at the lighthouse (not kidding. That is actually offered around here)
Paddleboard yoga.
Uh, nope.
I’m not big on yoga outdoors, but that’s me.
I prefer a roomy, air conditioned studio.
I say, go with your friend whom you do not get to see much.
Have a sparkling water if she imbibes, but you might also suggest ahead of time that after yoga you and she go for a snack somewhere.
It sounds as though you would really like to see your friend, so do it.
I’m going on six years sober, or maybe it’s five. I’ve lost track.
I could spend the night in a damn winery and not be tempted.
Not that I am going out of my way to do so.
Those floors are hard!
Good luck and good thoughts.

Maudcat

It’s going on six!
I looked it up in my journal.
Whew.

tomsteve

wellllll, an alkie like me rationalized it.when i was building houses- hot summer days- beer was my goto after. because, ya know, the first ingredient in beer is water.

Maudcat

Every year I help with a local environmental organization’s fund raiser.
It’s a swim across the bay that starts at 7 am.
Two years ago we added a beer tent, at the request of the swimmers.
So it’s a thing.
Go figure.

fini

"The mind will always want us drunk......."

oh.
that is not how it is for me anymore.
is that your experience, or your belief, or...?

Pathwaytofree

It's annoying, isn't it?

Guilty.....

Yup it's the same by me, too. There's $$$ to be made in food and booze. I guess that's what it comes down to.

I just don't get it. But I guess it's just marketing and gimmicks. I'm with you--a roomy air conditioned studio is best.

Congrats on 6 years sober!!!

Pathwaytofree

A lot of us did that, tomsteve. :-)
I used to rationalize that red wine was good for the heart...