bunchie

I'm reading the big book and I find it confusing, it is more or less like a philosophy book as I continue to read. I was thinking while I read it, how someone of limited education could get lost trying to comprehend it. There are obviously points about alcoholic behaviour I agree with but some of these same character flaws are found in non alcoholic people as well. I also think in my humble opinion that alcoholics are unique in their addiction, each one got to their own bottom or never had a bottom, but this book seems to paint us all with a broad brush. I will continue to read I find it interesting and informative however I also see how people could become lost or confused with the subject matter. I am in no way downgrading or insulting AA, I know it works and I am glad for it , I have been to 3 meetings this week and I am going to continue to go. They told me to read the big book which I am doing , but I am finding it to be a little like a spiritual philosophy book.

Dee74

I actually found it really easy to read and I think the writers tried to make it easy to read.

70 years later the vernacular might be a little hard to get into if you're not used to it I guess?

as far as all of us having individual stories thats true - but you know what saved me?

The similarities in everyone's problem and the steps taken to solve that problem.

that gave me hope

Gerard52

I found I preferred to listen to the audio readings the book is a bit "dry" for my taste.

bunchie

Dee, can you explain page 62 on self-centredness of the alcoholic, I know being an alcoholic is selfish , but the wording of this is kind of confusing to me. Thank you

bunchie

He says we are driven by fear, self pity , and resentments, I do not really agree with this. I drank for the pleasure , I was not hiding or fearing or resenting , maybe I am reading into this wrong. Drinking was pleasurable, it became uncontrollable so now I have to stop. I still have my job my family and my pride, although the last few binges were shaming me and I owe my family an apology. I know my drinking was out of control but I still went out and drank, and I realised over the last year or so that I was not able to stop for 3 beers and go home like I used to , I met my obligations to family for the most part , on occasion I was not at my best for work, but I feel this paragraph on self-centred behaviour is not typical of all who drink alcoholics, maybe I am interpreting it wrong. I am going to bring it up at a meeting when I get more sober time and more comfortable at the meetings. Thank you. bunchie

Berrybean

It IS like a spiritual philosophy book, you're right. AA isn't so much about getting sober as it is about staying sober. If you look at the steps, onky the first one even mentions alcohol.

You're also right about the defects being ones that are common in all humans. Trouble is, we tend to be folk of extremes, and very sensitive, and great at dwelling in and on those defects so it's good for our sobriety if we can learn to be aware of them and not let them direct us. I got in touch with my conscience and learnt to live with integrity in recovery, which gave me serenity and allows me to love others and myself with greater humility (ie stops me being quite so fear and ego led, when I work my program properly anyway). Of couse, these things are problematic for all people. But it's my own recovery, and myown side of the street that I need to take care of if I'm gonna be comfortable sober. Taking others inventory (other individuals or a populous) got me nowhere fast.

The Big Book study guides with Joe and Charlie we very helpful to me (and thousands of others). If you haven't tried them yet that might be an idea. And I'd suggest not trying to read loads of Big Book in one chunk or you can end up with spiritual and intellectual indigestion lol. Take it easy and look for the similarities and things will likely get easier.

BB

PS The Joe and Charlie recordings can be found here, along with the Big Book audio book by chapter, and lots of great AA speaker recordings organised by step (link is to Step 1 speakers)...
https://www.recoveryaudio.org/joe-charlie-aa-tapes
https://www.recoveryaudio.org/speake...ymous-big-book
https://www.recoveryaudio.org/step-1-speaker-tapes

brighterday1234

A spiritual philosophy book indeed. My favourite meetings are basically just that; shares about spiritual philosophy and applying this to living life. Staying recovered from alcoholism is living spiritually and so my favourite meetings share about the spiritual life. Alcohol is seldom mentioned.

bunchie

Thank you very much for your advice, I used to like reading philosophy years ago , I am a little rusty just new to the sober world , I am a little gung go right now and iam learning that's all part of my alcoholic personality. You have been very helpful .

Gottalife

The first time I read the book I read it like a novel. When they asked what I thought, it said "it's a bit American. Maybe a New Zealand verison would be better".

I had missed the whole point, and it wasn't all that surprising. I was 22 for one thing, someone who had achieved nothing. I never been a doctor, lawyer or stock broker, who were the first three members of AA. Neither had I been a high powered business man, owner of a motor dealership, or had I had a family or children, or any of the wonderful things many of the ones written about had.

There were lots of promises and descriptions of positive events which were just words to me. They didn't mean anything as they were beyond my experience. "we will have a new freedom and a new happiness" didn't mean anything to me as I hadn't had the old freedom or happiness.

So it didn't gel well on the first attempt. But there was still something wrong with me. Seeing as I couldn't identify with the getting well part, which is most of it, I began back at the beginning with the forwards and the doctors opinion, looking at the explanations of what AA was, how it had been working over time, and comparing my experience with the problem as described in the book.

That seemed to be the important thing to begin with, making sure I was at least in the "common problem" part.

Having established that, and from that point of view I could do an assessment of the common solution. Did I want what I saw in others? Could I swallow the medicine? Was I willing to do what it takes? Did I have any other options open to me than the spiritual path? What was the alternative? Answers: Yes, yes, yes, yes, no, an alcoholic death.

I didn't understand the book as I have said, but I got into it again with the help of a sponsor. Instead of trying to understand it all, I took the suggested actions, and the understanding came from the experience. Not only that, I recovered as well.

Page 62, disliked intensely by many in AA, invites me to compare my experience. It objective is as an assessment of the need to take step three, the decision to put the rest of the program into effect. Selfishness and self centredness was indeed the root of my problem. I began to see I had been driven by self serving instinct through most of my drinking years. The last year or so was totally living by instinct and fear. Not so much resentment in my case. All decisions were based on self advantage, all fears were rooted in not getting what I wanted, or losing something which I had. I began to see how destructive my way of life had been.

Then it says there does not seem to be much hope of getting rid of this selfishness without God's help, so it explains the need to get connected to a greater Power.

The third step prayer is most intersting. It talks about freedom from the bondage of self, not alcohol. The booze was just a symptom of a way of living that didn't work, my way. I needed a new manager. And so it goes.

I did a fourth step once with a man who had no fear, no resentment, had never been dishonest, had never hurt anyone else,. He was a straight up guy, but I doubt if he is alcoholic, at least of my type. He has no trouble staying sober and probably doesn't need our program, but he likes the social aspect.

In the book it also talks about crossing lines. It uses phrases like "If you are not too alcoholic" or "if you are as alcoholic as we were" so obviously they were expecting that some readers wouldn't be "that bad".

In conclusion, having studdied the book and treated it like a text book, I have found it now describes me quite accurately. I got to see not only how I had the common problem, but also I have experienced the many promises that it made to me, if I followed the prescribed course of action. I understand what it means now, But it took a while, and I am still learning.

August252015

Personally, and from those I hear speak most often, beginning a study of the BB is much easier to understand with someone else who has more experience of its applicability to real life if you will. In AA that is called having a sponsor. Learning the details and history such as the real names of people in the book who could seem like characters in a story was also helpful. Hearing my sponsor share real experiences from her own life as she learned the BBand grew in recovery was even more useful.

As I went through the simple steps it lays out- which are actually emotionally complicated in many ways and require time to "get" IME and IMO- I began to really understand what it is all about. And at 29 mo and change I am still learning.

You don't have to commit to AA permanently as I have and understanding the BB can be useful to anyone, IMO. Giving it that time sink in is really important. Perhaps committing to such a plan for90 days, which will also give your brain and heart and body time to get some clarity away from drinking, would be a good plan.

tomsteve

could be you that you stopped before that all happened, which is awesome. you dont have to agree with what the bb says for you. you may not have gone that far down the scale. although the first 2 sentences in the next paragraph may be true,too, and just require some time to see it.
check out the prelude to the second set of stories,"they stopped in time."

i didnt understand any of the big book when i first started reading it. bits and pieces started making sense with the more i listened at meetings, asked questions, and worked the steps.
when i was doin the 4th step, a whole lot of the BB started makin sense.

Gottalife

This is what the book has to say about philosophy.


"If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."

bunchie

Tomsteve, thank you I really appreciate the help and I am sure in time I will figure out what the fears and resentments mean, I realize I was incredibly selfish drinking when I should of been home taking care of business, I was shirking responsibility so their had to be some fears , maybe it was thinking and worrying about my kids, paying for college, maybe my resentments were thoughts on why I did not accomplish more in my life. ( I have a good job, union utility worker, make good money great benefits , retirement, security) but I have always felt like something was missing , maybe these are my resentments and fears. My wife also had some health issues doing great now but it was tough while the kids were young she got cancer twice and it was difficult , but we got through it , maybe these are my resentments and fears, All I know is that my drinking changed to out of control , and I thank God I recognised it before an oui or losing job and family.
Thank you so much, bunchie

Gerard52

Scratch the surface of an addict and that is what you will find. Is it pleasurable now? Why are you here?

Dee74

Hi bunchie - I've read the book once.

I hope I've never made anyone think I'm at expert at anything - I'm not - just a fellow traveller

I didn't like p62 when I read it. I was the guy everyone came to to fix things or do things.

I though I was anything but self centred or self piteous - but the further I got away from who I used to be, the more I could see the resentments and anger I was holding onto were all connected to how other people saw me or treated me.

I learned I couldn't control what they did but I could control my response to it.

People do the steps for exactly that reason, among others - to let go their baggage and their self absorption.

I didn't do the steps, but letting all that stuff go was still a great release for me.

D

BDTL

Get you a sponsor and actually work through the 12 steps. That is the only way to truly understand the Big Book.

tomsteve

you are already makin sense of it and seein things-

heres a funny:
i memorized "how it works" thats read at meetings. was able to read it at the meeting without even lookin at the sheet. one day a man said,'dam, thats pretty awesome!!"
i replied," it only shows i have some memory but i dont understand any of it."
which he replied,"yet."
today i believe there is a whole lot in those few paragraphs.

and i cant recite it from memory.

eyes99

The BB was hard for me at first too, and I am by no means an expert now, nor do I actually want to be. But, it was extremely helpful once I started looking for similarities and not differences. For me,

Fear = avoidance/anger. Most people in my life would call me fearless. I’ve taken lots of professional and emotional risks, am known as the fixer, and am generally the first one to jump into hard, gnarly problems. But there are plenty of things that I did not do because “I didn’t want to”. Really, I was afraid. And I was always low level angry when facing hard things. Because I was scared.

Self-pity = martyr/no one understand what I’m going through for me. It’s close cousin was “everyone expects me to do it and no one helps me”. I did have to reset boundaries, but none of those thoughts were strictly true. People did care, some needed to step up more, but I also created situations where I got to be the hero, then feel sorry for myself because I did it all alone.

Resentment = I was full of this because of the self-pity. Again, I liked being the savior. That was a central part of my identity. But then I’d get upset because no one came to save me. Nevermind the fact that if they tried, I’d shut them down because “I didn’t need help”. So, I just got more resentful and wrapped myself in a blanket of self-righteousness. And it felt good lol. But it was lonely and I was turning all of those negative feelings in on myself by drinking.

So...long story longer, when I actually looked ore deeply at the BB, I could see how the concepts applies to my life, even if the phrasing or context presented in the book didn’t.

bunchie

Eyes99,
Thank you so much , that explains things quite clearly, that's preety heavy stuff all this emotional baggage we have, I never thought of it before, I just went to bar after work and drank and figured I deserve it , a lot of people go to bar for same reason, but I guess it is an escape from ourselves that we are after, I will have to really reflect on myself and try to come to grips with what my , fears, and resentments are , I think this is very important from what I have been reading.,: Being so early in recovery I do not want to overwhelm myself right now so I will talk to someone about sponsoring me.
Thank you so much.

nez

and is that a bad thing? :~)