Post Acute Withdrawal Advice Required
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Post Acute Withdrawal Advice Required
Good Afternoon,
I was a severe alcoholic for 10 years (15-20 drinks almost everyday, sometimes more) and finally quit cold turkey early 2015. The first couple of weeks were tough but manageable and things evened out pretty quickly after that. After 3 years sobriety (earlier this year) I tested the waters only to relapse 3 times, the last time around fathers day (a month ago) on a 2 day binge. After the initial physical withdrawal I continue to experience really bad depression and bouts of horrible anxiety. I'm also experiencing general anxiety and depression daily. From what I understand - my history of drinking has clearly thrown me into the kindling group which has now created the worst symptoms I have ever experienced. I've been eating very healthy, going to the gym and meditating but the symptoms really don't seem to be subsiding. 2 days ago I started Zoloft @ 25mg and will not continue because of the discomfort and horrible side effects (no appetite, worse anxiety, bad insomnia etc..) My doctor has prescribed a different AD (Remeron) and Ativan to use during severe anxiety which I have yet to fill.
Does anyone know if a small does of Ativan used only in extreme cases (maybe twice a week) can kindle my brain because it works on the same gaba receptors ? I'm terrified to make my situation worse but need some relief at times.
Has anyone had experience with this AD for PAWS?
Any info/advice or similar experience is greatly appreciated because I'm really struggling.
Drinking is not even a question/challenge for me right now, I just want to alleviate some of the crippling feelings so I can function better in my life...
Sincere thanks in advance!
Jman
I was a severe alcoholic for 10 years (15-20 drinks almost everyday, sometimes more) and finally quit cold turkey early 2015. The first couple of weeks were tough but manageable and things evened out pretty quickly after that. After 3 years sobriety (earlier this year) I tested the waters only to relapse 3 times, the last time around fathers day (a month ago) on a 2 day binge. After the initial physical withdrawal I continue to experience really bad depression and bouts of horrible anxiety. I'm also experiencing general anxiety and depression daily. From what I understand - my history of drinking has clearly thrown me into the kindling group which has now created the worst symptoms I have ever experienced. I've been eating very healthy, going to the gym and meditating but the symptoms really don't seem to be subsiding. 2 days ago I started Zoloft @ 25mg and will not continue because of the discomfort and horrible side effects (no appetite, worse anxiety, bad insomnia etc..) My doctor has prescribed a different AD (Remeron) and Ativan to use during severe anxiety which I have yet to fill.
Does anyone know if a small does of Ativan used only in extreme cases (maybe twice a week) can kindle my brain because it works on the same gaba receptors ? I'm terrified to make my situation worse but need some relief at times.
Has anyone had experience with this AD for PAWS?
Any info/advice or similar experience is greatly appreciated because I'm really struggling.
Drinking is not even a question/challenge for me right now, I just want to alleviate some of the crippling feelings so I can function better in my life...
Sincere thanks in advance!
Jman
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
Hi Jman and welcome!
Sorry you're having a rough time. Unfortunately, there are no one-size-fits-all answers to your questions. You could poll a hundred people and get a hundred different experiences, none of which will exactly match your own. The gamut of experiences with withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal seems to be incredibly wide.
All you can do is try to be patient and take steps to address the symptoms you're experiencing. Working with your doctor on a drug regimen is a good first step, but it can take time to find what works for you.
No one can tell you whether taking an occasional Ativan for the anxiety will be OK for you. Again, the gamut of experience is very wide -- some people seem to get hooked on benzos quickly and easily, while others are able to tolerate them without developing a runaway dependence. There is a greater risk of dependence among alcoholics, but whether that means you personally are doomed to addiction if you take one or two doses a week is impossible to say.
Medication is only one facet of the solution, though. Most of us have found that doing work on recovery through AA, therapy, or even just posting here has been essential in changing how we look at life so that the effects of anxiety and depression are lessened.
I had a terrible time with PAWS -- especially the neurological aspects -- but it eventually cleared up in time. I'm sure it will for you too!
Sorry you're having a rough time. Unfortunately, there are no one-size-fits-all answers to your questions. You could poll a hundred people and get a hundred different experiences, none of which will exactly match your own. The gamut of experiences with withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal seems to be incredibly wide.
All you can do is try to be patient and take steps to address the symptoms you're experiencing. Working with your doctor on a drug regimen is a good first step, but it can take time to find what works for you.
No one can tell you whether taking an occasional Ativan for the anxiety will be OK for you. Again, the gamut of experience is very wide -- some people seem to get hooked on benzos quickly and easily, while others are able to tolerate them without developing a runaway dependence. There is a greater risk of dependence among alcoholics, but whether that means you personally are doomed to addiction if you take one or two doses a week is impossible to say.
Medication is only one facet of the solution, though. Most of us have found that doing work on recovery through AA, therapy, or even just posting here has been essential in changing how we look at life so that the effects of anxiety and depression are lessened.
I had a terrible time with PAWS -- especially the neurological aspects -- but it eventually cleared up in time. I'm sure it will for you too!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks Andante, I appreciate the response!
I figured there was no one-size-fits-all - just hoping someone may have been in the same kinda situation, specifically with the Ativan. My fear is around undoing the minimal healing that has already taken place and potentially doing more harm neurologically.
If I can ask, and I know everyone is everyone is unique - how long did your PAWS last?
I figured there was no one-size-fits-all - just hoping someone may have been in the same kinda situation, specifically with the Ativan. My fear is around undoing the minimal healing that has already taken place and potentially doing more harm neurologically.
If I can ask, and I know everyone is everyone is unique - how long did your PAWS last?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Hey newhope01,
Based on what I was experiencing I was told to stop because I wasn't able to tolerate the medication. Not surprised, I tend to be on the lightweight side when it comes to meds - 1/2 of the lowest dose sleeping pill knocked me on my arse a few years back.
Based on what I was experiencing I was told to stop because I wasn't able to tolerate the medication. Not surprised, I tend to be on the lightweight side when it comes to meds - 1/2 of the lowest dose sleeping pill knocked me on my arse a few years back.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Welcome to SR Jman. I'd echo that every person is different, and we are each affected by drugs in wide ranging ways. I can tell you that Kindling is very real as I experienced it multiple times myself.
I also had some pretty substantial Anxiety issues myself about 1.5 years into quitting and researched lots of different options, including Anti-anxiety meds. I am assuming you have shared your alcohol abuse history with your doctor, correct? Benzo's are an extremely dangerous thing for an alcoholic as they act very simliarly to alcohol in our brain and can be very addictive in themselves. And while I have not withdrawn from them myself, the stories shared around here make alcohol withdrawal look like a cakewalk in comparison sometimes.
Out of curiosity, have you ever spoken with a therapist regarding your anxiety, or only your MD? I ask because I finally found long lasting relief through a counselor and several methods learned from those sessions.
I also had some pretty substantial Anxiety issues myself about 1.5 years into quitting and researched lots of different options, including Anti-anxiety meds. I am assuming you have shared your alcohol abuse history with your doctor, correct? Benzo's are an extremely dangerous thing for an alcoholic as they act very simliarly to alcohol in our brain and can be very addictive in themselves. And while I have not withdrawn from them myself, the stories shared around here make alcohol withdrawal look like a cakewalk in comparison sometimes.
Out of curiosity, have you ever spoken with a therapist regarding your anxiety, or only your MD? I ask because I finally found long lasting relief through a counselor and several methods learned from those sessions.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Hey Scott,
Yes, kindling is hell on earth!
Yes my doctor is aware of my history but wasn't familiar with PAWS or kindling. I too have read some horror stories about being hooked on benzos which is why I was concerned with replacing one substance with another and going deeper down the hole.
I have done extensive therapy but anxiety hasn't really been an issue in the past. It only seems as though this time the kindling has really screwed me and the daily anxiety has no definitive trigger, and the drops at times are HUGE! It's definitely something I'll re-visit tho. Thanks!
Yes, kindling is hell on earth!
Yes my doctor is aware of my history but wasn't familiar with PAWS or kindling. I too have read some horror stories about being hooked on benzos which is why I was concerned with replacing one substance with another and going deeper down the hole.
I have done extensive therapy but anxiety hasn't really been an issue in the past. It only seems as though this time the kindling has really screwed me and the daily anxiety has no definitive trigger, and the drops at times are HUGE! It's definitely something I'll re-visit tho. Thanks!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by Andante 
Hi Jman and welcome!
Sorry you're having a rough time. Unfortunately, there are no one-size-fits-all answers to your questions. You could poll a hundred people and get a hundred different experiences, none of which will exactly match your own. The gamut of experiences with withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal seems to be incredibly wide.
All you can do is try to be patient and take steps to address the symptoms you're experiencing. Working with your doctor on a drug regimen is a good first step, but it can take time to find what works for you.
No one can tell you whether taking an occasional Ativan for the anxiety will be OK for you. Again, the gamut of experience is very wide -- some people seem to get hooked on benzos quickly and easily, while others are able to tolerate them without developing a runaway dependence. There is a greater risk of dependence among alcoholics, but whether that means you personally are doomed to addiction if you take one or two doses a week is impossible to say.
Medication is only one facet of the solution, though. Most of us have found that doing work on recovery through AA, therapy, or even just posting here has been essential in changing how we look at life so that the effects of anxiety and depression are lessened.
I had a terrible time with PAWS -- especially the neurological aspects -- but it eventually cleared up in time. I'm sure it will for you too!
Sorry you're having a rough time. Unfortunately, there are no one-size-fits-all answers to your questions. You could poll a hundred people and get a hundred different experiences, none of which will exactly match your own. The gamut of experiences with withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal seems to be incredibly wide.
All you can do is try to be patient and take steps to address the symptoms you're experiencing. Working with your doctor on a drug regimen is a good first step, but it can take time to find what works for you.
No one can tell you whether taking an occasional Ativan for the anxiety will be OK for you. Again, the gamut of experience is very wide -- some people seem to get hooked on benzos quickly and easily, while others are able to tolerate them without developing a runaway dependence. There is a greater risk of dependence among alcoholics, but whether that means you personally are doomed to addiction if you take one or two doses a week is impossible to say.
Medication is only one facet of the solution, though. Most of us have found that doing work on recovery through AA, therapy, or even just posting here has been essential in changing how we look at life so that the effects of anxiety and depression are lessened.
I had a terrible time with PAWS -- especially the neurological aspects -- but it eventually cleared up in time. I'm sure it will for you too!
Originally Posted by Jman101
Thanks Andante, I appreciate the response!
I figured there was no one-size-fits-all - just hoping someone may have been in the same kinda situation, specifically with the Ativan. My fear is around undoing the minimal healing that has already taken place and potentially doing more harm neurologically.
If I can ask, and I know everyone is everyone is unique - how long did your PAWS last?
I figured there was no one-size-fits-all - just hoping someone may have been in the same kinda situation, specifically with the Ativan. My fear is around undoing the minimal healing that has already taken place and potentially doing more harm neurologically.
If I can ask, and I know everyone is everyone is unique - how long did your PAWS last?
I had pretty much every PAWS symptom described anywhere (here is a good article www.digital-dharma.net too tab PAWS). Various ones took a year to even out. A little longer for some- I still have enormous sleep problems and night sweats- and the worst of it concentrated in the first 3-6 mo.
The only thing for to do about any and all health or life issues is never drink again. My AA program and other sources of recovery support are he other legs of my program along with my psych care.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks for your response August, the info is definitely helpfull!
On some levels I can relate to the timeline you describe when I quit my first time over 3 years ago, but my symptoms were not as grand back then. It would appear I may not be so lucky this time. If anything, this is a solid reminder for me as well that I can never drink again!
Curious, does the Ativan cause any rebound anxiety for you a day or two later or just does it thing as required? I'm reluctant to add any more chemicals to my body but recognize it may be necessary in the short term for my well being and those around me.
On some levels I can relate to the timeline you describe when I quit my first time over 3 years ago, but my symptoms were not as grand back then. It would appear I may not be so lucky this time. If anything, this is a solid reminder for me as well that I can never drink again!
Curious, does the Ativan cause any rebound anxiety for you a day or two later or just does it thing as required? I'm reluctant to add any more chemicals to my body but recognize it may be necessary in the short term for my well being and those around me.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,437
No experience to share medication wise but welcome Jman 
I think a month in to recovery is still early days (I know you had three years but things like kindling and PAWs don't take that in account)
If you think you're suffering from PAWs this is a great link to read, if you haven't already
https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
D
I think a month in to recovery is still early days (I know you had three years but things like kindling and PAWs don't take that in account)
If you think you're suffering from PAWs this is a great link to read, if you haven't already
https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
D
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Thanks Dee, I actually just read that article yet again.
Reluctantly, I know it's early days (again) and I wish I would have educated myself more as to what could happen. PAWS is certainly real and is DEFINITELY worse after repeated relapses.
Reluctantly, I know it's early days (again) and I wish I would have educated myself more as to what could happen. PAWS is certainly real and is DEFINITELY worse after repeated relapses.
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Jman101
Hey Scott,
Yes, kindling is hell on earth!
Yes my doctor is aware of my history but wasn't familiar with PAWS or kindling. I too have read some horror stories about being hooked on benzos which is why I was concerned with replacing one substance with another and going deeper down the hole.
I have done extensive therapy but anxiety hasn't really been an issue in the past. It only seems as though this time the kindling has really screwed me and the daily anxiety has no definitive trigger, and the drops at times are HUGE! It's definitely something I'll re-visit tho. Thanks!
Yes, kindling is hell on earth!
Yes my doctor is aware of my history but wasn't familiar with PAWS or kindling. I too have read some horror stories about being hooked on benzos which is why I was concerned with replacing one substance with another and going deeper down the hole.
I have done extensive therapy but anxiety hasn't really been an issue in the past. It only seems as though this time the kindling has really screwed me and the daily anxiety has no definitive trigger, and the drops at times are HUGE! It's definitely something I'll re-visit tho. Thanks!
My advice to you... if you have to use a benzo to come off the booze use it short term only.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Wow, I can imagine - I've been almost broken recently as well. It's awesome you've had the strength to fight two battles! The craziness you can't even describe - I'm fearful it's only just begun for me and yet hopeful as well.
The benzo would only be a "emergency use" at a time but because it hits the same receptors I'm worried my brain won't distinguish the difference and I'll be back to square one repeating the cycle.
The benzo would only be a "emergency use" at a time but because it hits the same receptors I'm worried my brain won't distinguish the difference and I'll be back to square one repeating the cycle.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
I was put on klonopin for anxiety and to get me off of alcohol.
I ended up severely addicted to it. The withdrawal was the absolute worst.
For me benzos no bueno. But YMMV. They did give me a valium taper when I detoxed, and I vowed after that I'd never take one again, and my addiction psychiatrist agrees. Sedatives are too dangerous for me. Pain pills are probably fine, as I can't stand narcotics, but any GABA related sedative is best completely avoided.
My first course of AD therapy was Zoloft. Horrible gastro side effects that I did power through. Switched to Prozac and it was better. I've taken a ton of 'em before I realized that it was bipolar depression, which requires different treatment.
ADs are different for everyone, and SSRIs can help with anxiety. This is just my experience. I do know people who always have a Xanax in case of a panic attack, and only then. But they're not addicts.
I ended up severely addicted to it. The withdrawal was the absolute worst.
For me benzos no bueno. But YMMV. They did give me a valium taper when I detoxed, and I vowed after that I'd never take one again, and my addiction psychiatrist agrees. Sedatives are too dangerous for me. Pain pills are probably fine, as I can't stand narcotics, but any GABA related sedative is best completely avoided.
My first course of AD therapy was Zoloft. Horrible gastro side effects that I did power through. Switched to Prozac and it was better. I've taken a ton of 'em before I realized that it was bipolar depression, which requires different treatment.
ADs are different for everyone, and SSRIs can help with anxiety. This is just my experience. I do know people who always have a Xanax in case of a panic attack, and only then. But they're not addicts.
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