Looking for experience, strength and hope - regarding a family member
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Looking for experience, strength and hope - regarding a family member
I'm in my 5th year of recovery and grateful for sobriety.
My younger sister is in her late 20's and is an active and rapidly-declining alcoholic in denial. She wavers into acceptance of her addiction at times (as she's either very drunk or hungover) - but then goes back to "I'm NOT going to rehab" and the many familiar statements that I'm familiar with from my own days of denial and my experience of observing many others.
Over the past several days, she's directed her blame, chaos and drama at me. She's taken an issue having nothing to do with her - a statement I made on social media about another person's behavior - and made it the basis for a giant family drama.
She's involved other members of the family to the point that they're all emotionally exhausted and she has made it pretty clear to me that she feels I'm awful, terrible, an embarrassment and disgusting to her.
I see this as the behavior of her addictive mind, another in a line of many chaotic drama points to focus on and to work others up over, another opportunity for her not to confront her own issues.
I've told her I love her, that when she's ready for sobriety I'll always be here for her..... but that I'm not going to engage in the drama or the chaos. Whether my own comments about another person were 'right' or 'wrong' is apart from her issues and I'm not going to discuss it with an active alcoholic. I've made the same clear to my family.
Her response is now to angle through my wife to make arrangements to see my children. Frankly, I find this more example of her addictive brain's 'rationale' and I also find it an enabling of her consequences. If she's going to disown me or cut me off - then she should not expect my wife to go out of her way to arrange for her to see our kids.
Also, more than once she's been drunk in their presence and denying it - so at this point I cannot be confident in what condition she may be in or what odd behavior she may bring to her interaction with the children.
In others' experience..... when it comes to these family matters.... am I being to harsh here? I feel like I need to honor my own boundaries as a brother and as a parent..... as a man in recovery, I also feel I can see what's going on for her pretty clearly. Certainly more clearly than she sees and probably more clearly than our parents.
thanks
My younger sister is in her late 20's and is an active and rapidly-declining alcoholic in denial. She wavers into acceptance of her addiction at times (as she's either very drunk or hungover) - but then goes back to "I'm NOT going to rehab" and the many familiar statements that I'm familiar with from my own days of denial and my experience of observing many others.
Over the past several days, she's directed her blame, chaos and drama at me. She's taken an issue having nothing to do with her - a statement I made on social media about another person's behavior - and made it the basis for a giant family drama.
She's involved other members of the family to the point that they're all emotionally exhausted and she has made it pretty clear to me that she feels I'm awful, terrible, an embarrassment and disgusting to her.
I see this as the behavior of her addictive mind, another in a line of many chaotic drama points to focus on and to work others up over, another opportunity for her not to confront her own issues.
I've told her I love her, that when she's ready for sobriety I'll always be here for her..... but that I'm not going to engage in the drama or the chaos. Whether my own comments about another person were 'right' or 'wrong' is apart from her issues and I'm not going to discuss it with an active alcoholic. I've made the same clear to my family.
Her response is now to angle through my wife to make arrangements to see my children. Frankly, I find this more example of her addictive brain's 'rationale' and I also find it an enabling of her consequences. If she's going to disown me or cut me off - then she should not expect my wife to go out of her way to arrange for her to see our kids.
Also, more than once she's been drunk in their presence and denying it - so at this point I cannot be confident in what condition she may be in or what odd behavior she may bring to her interaction with the children.
In others' experience..... when it comes to these family matters.... am I being to harsh here? I feel like I need to honor my own boundaries as a brother and as a parent..... as a man in recovery, I also feel I can see what's going on for her pretty clearly. Certainly more clearly than she sees and probably more clearly than our parents.
thanks
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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freowl, i dont think you are being harsh at all. you are doing what is right to protect yourself and your family.
would you let a robber into your life and let them do what they please? because with a practicing alcoholic, thats pretty much what we do- we let em in and they rob us of our mental and emotional well being.
my family( and anyone else around me) allowing me into their homes and lives was enabling me to continue the insane behavior.
hopefully the entire family will set boundaries and hopefully she accepts completely that alcohol is the common denominator in all her problems.
would you let a robber into your life and let them do what they please? because with a practicing alcoholic, thats pretty much what we do- we let em in and they rob us of our mental and emotional well being.
my family( and anyone else around me) allowing me into their homes and lives was enabling me to continue the insane behavior.
hopefully the entire family will set boundaries and hopefully she accepts completely that alcohol is the common denominator in all her problems.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Thanks... yes, the whole family needs boundaries at this time. She's actually angling not just through my wife, but through my wife by way of our Mom.
Mom is a deeply-caring, well-meaning, painfully-giving woman who is unfortunately challenged to establish boundaries. She gives and gives..... in the process, enabling far too much.
It's really hard for me to push back with her.... because I know how she was there for me and supported me through my own alcoholic devastation. But, as much as I appreciate having had her have my back - I can also see in sober retrospect that I may have had to face much harder consequences without her support. Maybe I'd have been forced to my bottom sooner..... and with my sister, I can see the boundaries continually set and then crossed.... set and crossed again.
Mom is a deeply-caring, well-meaning, painfully-giving woman who is unfortunately challenged to establish boundaries. She gives and gives..... in the process, enabling far too much.
It's really hard for me to push back with her.... because I know how she was there for me and supported me through my own alcoholic devastation. But, as much as I appreciate having had her have my back - I can also see in sober retrospect that I may have had to face much harder consequences without her support. Maybe I'd have been forced to my bottom sooner..... and with my sister, I can see the boundaries continually set and then crossed.... set and crossed again.
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Uuugggggg family issues suuuuuuuuck....
Been there... first with my now ex in laws. My AXH and I had to cut off the lot of them several years before we separated. Mental health issues mixed with alcoholism and a severe case of enmeshment made for some terrible, painful dramas.
My own mother, whom I love dearly, the epitome of motherhood, warm, caring, giving, tender, loving.... is drowning in codependence up past her eyeballs. The things she does for my 44 year old brother (who has his own set of mental and substance abuse issues) is beyond ridiculous. She can't for the life of her realize she is only helping him to stay sick. I've had her scream at me that he is her "CHILD!!!!" so she can't not do all the "helping"... she just doesn't get it. She is going to love him to death, and that's going to kill her. I've had to distance myself from that mess for my own sanity.
I do not think you are being too harsh. You have a right to whatever boundaries you need in your life to keep yourself happy, healthy and sober. You have an obligation to your children to keep them healthy and safe, being influenced by a drunk is nether healthy nor safe, sorry (not sorry) Auntie. I hope your wife can be clear with boundaries of her own too. If your mom can't respect your boundaries about the situation, only you can decide what you want to do about that.
As you well know, actions have consequences, shielding your sister from those consequences would not be helping her at all.
Stay the course FreeOwl, you are doing great!
P.S. Congrats on the sober time!!! I have the greatest respect for people in true recovery.
Been there... first with my now ex in laws. My AXH and I had to cut off the lot of them several years before we separated. Mental health issues mixed with alcoholism and a severe case of enmeshment made for some terrible, painful dramas.
My own mother, whom I love dearly, the epitome of motherhood, warm, caring, giving, tender, loving.... is drowning in codependence up past her eyeballs. The things she does for my 44 year old brother (who has his own set of mental and substance abuse issues) is beyond ridiculous. She can't for the life of her realize she is only helping him to stay sick. I've had her scream at me that he is her "CHILD!!!!" so she can't not do all the "helping"... she just doesn't get it. She is going to love him to death, and that's going to kill her. I've had to distance myself from that mess for my own sanity.
I do not think you are being too harsh. You have a right to whatever boundaries you need in your life to keep yourself happy, healthy and sober. You have an obligation to your children to keep them healthy and safe, being influenced by a drunk is nether healthy nor safe, sorry (not sorry) Auntie. I hope your wife can be clear with boundaries of her own too. If your mom can't respect your boundaries about the situation, only you can decide what you want to do about that.
As you well know, actions have consequences, shielding your sister from those consequences would not be helping her at all.
Stay the course FreeOwl, you are doing great!
P.S. Congrats on the sober time!!! I have the greatest respect for people in true recovery.
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thank you for the feedback. At times, both my sister and my family lean into putting guilt on me for the way that I was..... in an effort to justify and rationalize their own behavior.
The way you describe your mom is much like the way I see my mom. I love and appreciate her. But she'd probably have stuck with enabling behaviors with me as well.... I was fortunately scared into action and motivated to sobriety primarily by the fear of losing my children.
It sometimes seems like I'm being asked to give my sister leniency and 'wiggle room' because I was given that - but with everything I've learned through my own direct experience and that of others in recovery - I see that as more manipulation.
I don't want to play into the games, the lies, the enmeshment, the triangulation, the nonsense and the drama because at the end of the day it's all just more chaos that is really meant to distract from my sister getting sober.
And - honestly while a part of me can see some legitimacy to her point about this most recent issue - the bottom line is that my comments to a third party unrelated to her are of no concern to her. If she chooses to make it her concern or if her friends choose to make it their concern and hers - that's not mine to own.
Drama can be left at the doorway of my boundaries. Period.
The way you describe your mom is much like the way I see my mom. I love and appreciate her. But she'd probably have stuck with enabling behaviors with me as well.... I was fortunately scared into action and motivated to sobriety primarily by the fear of losing my children.
It sometimes seems like I'm being asked to give my sister leniency and 'wiggle room' because I was given that - but with everything I've learned through my own direct experience and that of others in recovery - I see that as more manipulation.
I don't want to play into the games, the lies, the enmeshment, the triangulation, the nonsense and the drama because at the end of the day it's all just more chaos that is really meant to distract from my sister getting sober.
And - honestly while a part of me can see some legitimacy to her point about this most recent issue - the bottom line is that my comments to a third party unrelated to her are of no concern to her. If she chooses to make it her concern or if her friends choose to make it their concern and hers - that's not mine to own.
Drama can be left at the doorway of my boundaries. Period.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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freeowl, something that helped me was quite simple, but i needed someone else to poitn it out to me:
yup, i was a drunk. yup, i used people, made excuses,told lies, hurt people, and left one hell of a trail of wreckage in my wake.
im not that man anymore and dont condone any of my behavior back then. i dont have to use my past as an excuse for the behavior of others because im not that man today.
others have tried and use my past to rationalize my past for the behavior of others( funny how its only family members actions. just every day joes that act the same? thats just not acceptable!). two things that come up when that happens
- to thine own self be true
- its their lie that they have to live with
yup, i was a drunk. yup, i used people, made excuses,told lies, hurt people, and left one hell of a trail of wreckage in my wake.
im not that man anymore and dont condone any of my behavior back then. i dont have to use my past as an excuse for the behavior of others because im not that man today.
others have tried and use my past to rationalize my past for the behavior of others( funny how its only family members actions. just every day joes that act the same? thats just not acceptable!). two things that come up when that happens
- to thine own self be true
- its their lie that they have to live with
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl 
If she chooses to make it her concern or if her friends choose to make it their concern and hers - that's not mine to own.
Drama can be left at the doorway of my boundaries. Period.
Drama can be left at the doorway of my boundaries. Period.
I don't know how often your Sister sees your children but was it necessary or expected that she would rush to convince your Wife and Mom that she must have visiting privileges set in place right away?
As you know, more than most, this is just more drama in the making. I'm sure in your Sister's mind this all makes sense. Under normal circumstances, it should be you she should be approaching if your differences are irreconcilable, about seeing the children.
You are well away from this. I would be tempted - at least for a while - to shut that part of the world out of my life. I don't see any good coming from letting this in (for anyone).
I'm sorry about your Sister, I hope one day she finds recovery.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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I'm also in agreement that you are right for protecting your children from this kind of drama; but I might also verbalize it to everyone if it's not getting through.
Like, Hey Wife - this is Not OK with me & you are helping to disrespect my boundaries when you help her to get around them. Please stop & if you disagree, then let's discuss it rather than just being divided about it.
How old are your kids? Depending on their ages it might make sense to have a conversation with them about it, since the whole family is caught up in the drama. Obviously if they are very young it's completely unnecessary but my 14-yr old would need some kind of explanation for why the family dynamics had changed so suddenly. (In fact, we went through something like this recently & I had to sit her down & explain why everything was off - there was no avoiding the discomfort between us but letting her create a story in her head vs. knowing the truth is a lot more damaging IMO.)
Sounds like you're handling everything really, really well. I completely agree that giving her the "leniency" you refer to is another version of manipulation. Manipulation is almost always much more subtle than people realize - that's why it works!
Like, Hey Wife - this is Not OK with me & you are helping to disrespect my boundaries when you help her to get around them. Please stop & if you disagree, then let's discuss it rather than just being divided about it.
How old are your kids? Depending on their ages it might make sense to have a conversation with them about it, since the whole family is caught up in the drama. Obviously if they are very young it's completely unnecessary but my 14-yr old would need some kind of explanation for why the family dynamics had changed so suddenly. (In fact, we went through something like this recently & I had to sit her down & explain why everything was off - there was no avoiding the discomfort between us but letting her create a story in her head vs. knowing the truth is a lot more damaging IMO.)
Sounds like you're handling everything really, really well. I completely agree that giving her the "leniency" you refer to is another version of manipulation. Manipulation is almost always much more subtle than people realize - that's why it works!
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Hello FreeOwl, welcome to this side of the board! Congratulations on your sober time!!
I'm sorry for what you are dealing with in your sister and the rest of your family. I can't really add much to what others have said except that yes...yes you do get to decide whether or not you and your children are exposed to the manipulation, drama, and chaos of active addiction.
And no, it does not matter whether you were active in your addiction previously--you still get to protect yourself and your family
I'm sorry for what you are dealing with in your sister and the rest of your family. I can't really add much to what others have said except that yes...yes you do get to decide whether or not you and your children are exposed to the manipulation, drama, and chaos of active addiction.
And no, it does not matter whether you were active in your addiction previously--you still get to protect yourself and your family
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