My heart hurts even when my brain says it's ok
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My heart hurts even when my brain says it's ok
I miss my best friend. I miss the functional alcoholic who was in my life a year ago and now all I have are some memories of him. Nothing more. I miss the guy who planned all the fun trips and did things with me. The guy who was content with seeing a smile on my face yet started resenting me . The guy who was my husband . The guy who wanted to cuddle with me at night no matter what. The guy who told me that he loved me more than life itself. The guy who would sing foolish songs for me and act stupid just to make me laugh. The guy who was my best friend. The guy who held my hand . The guy who said he did stupid **** but was not a bad person. I am tired of being strong. I am tired of trying to let go. I am tired
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Raindrops, so sorry you are so down.
It's a struggle for sure and what I see you say is that you are struggling with two "versions" of your ex Husband.
There is the guy that was doting and kind and fun and loving and now there is this cold person who posts photos of himself in social situations that now doesn't have a care in the world after the hell he has put you through. Where did that first guy go??
I'm sure you have heard of cognitive dissonance, where your mind is holding two conflicting thoughts. Sounds to me like this is where you are at. This is not a fun place to be, your mind can't settle and when you try to make sense of it all you think - yes BUT! he was this and this, where did that go??
I'm sure there are miles of psychological explanations and ways to resolve this but what I found is that working on meshing the two was the key.
He is not two people. He is not two personalities he is one person with one (really off) personality. This can take a bit of time or you can just have an epiphany like moment where that fog of thought lifts (this happened for me and was really weird!). Even with that epiphany, it took time for me to really look at it.
From that moment on, when I realized what he was it was literally like a veil had been lifted and every word he wrote or spoke, I viewed differently, like the garbage it was. I could see the intent and it wasn't intended with love it was self-serving. I didn't see his actions as some evil scheme, it is just his way of being in life, it is who he is. So you can't take it personally. Not the kind part and not the horrible part.
I can understand you are tired, the mind gets tired of running in circles, it wants to resolve things!
Cognitive dissonance is tough and perhaps if you focus on realizing he is one person, one personality, not two, it might help.
It's a struggle for sure and what I see you say is that you are struggling with two "versions" of your ex Husband.
There is the guy that was doting and kind and fun and loving and now there is this cold person who posts photos of himself in social situations that now doesn't have a care in the world after the hell he has put you through. Where did that first guy go??
I'm sure you have heard of cognitive dissonance, where your mind is holding two conflicting thoughts. Sounds to me like this is where you are at. This is not a fun place to be, your mind can't settle and when you try to make sense of it all you think - yes BUT! he was this and this, where did that go??
I'm sure there are miles of psychological explanations and ways to resolve this but what I found is that working on meshing the two was the key.
He is not two people. He is not two personalities he is one person with one (really off) personality. This can take a bit of time or you can just have an epiphany like moment where that fog of thought lifts (this happened for me and was really weird!). Even with that epiphany, it took time for me to really look at it.
From that moment on, when I realized what he was it was literally like a veil had been lifted and every word he wrote or spoke, I viewed differently, like the garbage it was. I could see the intent and it wasn't intended with love it was self-serving. I didn't see his actions as some evil scheme, it is just his way of being in life, it is who he is. So you can't take it personally. Not the kind part and not the horrible part.
I can understand you are tired, the mind gets tired of running in circles, it wants to resolve things!
Cognitive dissonance is tough and perhaps if you focus on realizing he is one person, one personality, not two, it might help.
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Raindrops.....it is normal to have feelings like this when you are grieving....it is o.k. to cry.....but, this should not be your 24/7 state of mind, at this point....just sometimes, like the tide coming in, hesitating for a while, then moving back out again....
One thing that can help is to cut through the selective recall (recalling only the good stuff)...and, write down all of the bad things that happened, when you were together...I am sure that there were those, too! You have described him as abusive and narcissistic...in some other threads....
I am going to spitball here, and assume that you are isolating yourself.....and, you do sound like you may be depressed.....(please go back and read my post to you from 4/7/2018)...I think it still applies...lol.)….
I am thinking that you are n ot going to alanon...because you said that you didn't like people talking about alcoholism....
I am thinking, from what you have shared, that a group for abuse might be more specific to your needs, right now....(nothing against alanon, of course)...I suggest that you ask your therapist to help you find a group....Are you still going to your therapist?
I suggest that you start with some baby steps to get you out of the house and have some more structure to follow.
Exercise...just going for a walk around the block, if nothing else....
Going to a park or public place and feed the birds or just people watch....
Go to a coffee shop and read a book....
Anything where you get out and see nature and other people....
Human contact is so essential...just seeing other people.....
You have said that you were a different person before this man entered into your life....you said that you were independent and outgoing? Is that true....?
You can get back there again, but you have to decide to work on yourself and get into some therapy to help you do that.....
But, for today...take one positive baby step...no matter how small!.....
One thing that can help is to cut through the selective recall (recalling only the good stuff)...and, write down all of the bad things that happened, when you were together...I am sure that there were those, too! You have described him as abusive and narcissistic...in some other threads....
I am going to spitball here, and assume that you are isolating yourself.....and, you do sound like you may be depressed.....(please go back and read my post to you from 4/7/2018)...I think it still applies...lol.)….
I am thinking that you are n ot going to alanon...because you said that you didn't like people talking about alcoholism....
I am thinking, from what you have shared, that a group for abuse might be more specific to your needs, right now....(nothing against alanon, of course)...I suggest that you ask your therapist to help you find a group....Are you still going to your therapist?
I suggest that you start with some baby steps to get you out of the house and have some more structure to follow.
Exercise...just going for a walk around the block, if nothing else....
Going to a park or public place and feed the birds or just people watch....
Go to a coffee shop and read a book....
Anything where you get out and see nature and other people....
Human contact is so essential...just seeing other people.....
You have said that you were a different person before this man entered into your life....you said that you were independent and outgoing? Is that true....?
You can get back there again, but you have to decide to work on yourself and get into some therapy to help you do that.....
But, for today...take one positive baby step...no matter how small!.....
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I've been there, Raindrops, absolutely. I've spent good portions of the day crying, walked around my yard pruning trees and doing yard work crying, laid on the floor and wailed, been blindsided by the most ridiculous things that spark a memory, good or bad...
I do think we need to feel the pain, we need to grieve, we need to go through it in order to get past it. For me, being in nature was tremendously healing. I would take my dogs and walk and walk and walk. We saw many beautiful and amazing things on those walks, and I always felt better afterwards.
It was also helpful to do something helpful, useful or kind--offer to take the old person's cart back into the grocery store for him/her, make a jar of bath salts for a friend, or just take care of one small task that I'd been putting off. Small steps were really key.
And I really, really want to second what dandy said about making sure you remember it ALL, not just the good stuff. I had a journal that I had started when I became aware of the drinking, and it sure put things in perspective to take a look through that when I got all lost in the moonbeams and stardust...
You'll be OK in the end, Raindrops, but this part is going to be hard, no two ways about it.
I do think we need to feel the pain, we need to grieve, we need to go through it in order to get past it. For me, being in nature was tremendously healing. I would take my dogs and walk and walk and walk. We saw many beautiful and amazing things on those walks, and I always felt better afterwards.
It was also helpful to do something helpful, useful or kind--offer to take the old person's cart back into the grocery store for him/her, make a jar of bath salts for a friend, or just take care of one small task that I'd been putting off. Small steps were really key.
And I really, really want to second what dandy said about making sure you remember it ALL, not just the good stuff. I had a journal that I had started when I became aware of the drinking, and it sure put things in perspective to take a look through that when I got all lost in the moonbeams and stardust...
You'll be OK in the end, Raindrops, but this part is going to be hard, no two ways about it.
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I can easily relate to everything you wrote I think about at least some of what you wrote every single day.
Her & I were apart didn't talk to or see each other for about a year. She resurfaced for a bit in May. I saw her once for about 15 minutes or so. There was nothing good or fun about any of it. She had a lot of problems going on.
The last I heard from her was June 9th. From there she just up & vanished. Haven't seen or heard from her since. I'm just leaving her alone & haven't tried to contact her. I don't know what happened to her.
For me, fond memories are really a thing of the past. As I think back probably 2016 was the last year containing fond memories. 2016 also contained some wicked bad memories.
I know its hard to keep this all in a healthy perspective
Her & I were apart didn't talk to or see each other for about a year. She resurfaced for a bit in May. I saw her once for about 15 minutes or so. There was nothing good or fun about any of it. She had a lot of problems going on.
The last I heard from her was June 9th. From there she just up & vanished. Haven't seen or heard from her since. I'm just leaving her alone & haven't tried to contact her. I don't know what happened to her.
For me, fond memories are really a thing of the past. As I think back probably 2016 was the last year containing fond memories. 2016 also contained some wicked bad memories.
I know its hard to keep this all in a healthy perspective
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Join Date: May 2016
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I am there too. Trying to trust the process. Rolling around in grief. Remembering the good times. Realize the man I married is not coming back. Friends help. That's the most help for me. Also work helps. Being alone is very very lonely. I am a people person. I wish I knew the answer and my brain says I did the right thing by leaving but my heart is in tatters.
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 184
Raindrops, I wish I could say something to make you feel better, I really, really do. I know exactly where you are and I know the ache in your heart. Some days are better than others--it doesn't help to hear that when you're in the middle of the grief, but please know that it's true. Big hugs to you.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Wow I think everyone hit the nail on the head. The way I have had to train myself to look at things is by putting myself in the situation, what I mean by that is : sober, drunk, angry etc there are things I would never do in any state of mind that my AH has done. I consider those things inhumane period, I am not capable of hurting another living being like that, but he was. I don't want to be with someone who is capable of doing those things in any state of mind. I feel like the caring, sweet, complimentary sensitive guy was the mask and what surfaced was the real person. Not two people, he even told me that it was just one person, and when you see that you will see you deserve so much more. I know exactly how you feel I miss the person I thought he was but I am grateful to be away from the reality of who he is.
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Thank you everyone. I swing so fast and hard between the illusion of him and accepting the reality. It's like a pendulum that never stops. It makes me dizzy to my core and I try to get off of it but it's almost like I am glued there. I stopped going for counselling for a bit because I guess it is easier to stay in a place that's known vs the unknown. I am going back to my counsellor this week. I know it is cognitive dissonance and it's like I am screaming to get out of it but I feel stuck in quicksand. The harder I fight the more it sucks me in. Yes, I have isolated myself except al anon meetings. I just want the pain to stop. I want this memory of this person to be erased from my mind so that I can stop telling myself that this was love and that he loved me. I was trying to fill a void with a person who doesn't even know who he is. At 32, ending my marriage has been painful. My memories of walking down the aisle are so fresh that digging this grave for my marriage has been hardddd. I don't know who I was married to. I need to stop being so hard on myself and give acceptance a chance. I tried everything and more even after I left to fight for my marriage but I forgot that marriage is between two people and I was in it alone all along .
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Raindrops.....that is exactly why I suggested that you actually write the top worst things that happened in your marriage that led you to leaving....and keep that paper with you all of the time. Every time you feel the surge of pain and longing...read the list again, and remember the bad times. Do it as many times a day as you need to...no matter how many that is.
If you do that consistently, you will find that it works....For one thing, it is impossible to have two thoughts in your mind, simultaneously. It uses one thought/feeling to push out another one, and cut through the selective recall (of just the good memories)…..
I used this method as one of my major tools, after a very painful breakup that left me as a hot mess....a..really...hot...mess. I kept the list on an index card and carried it in my bra. I used it at work, for instance, in the bathroom....After a while, it was worn on the edges and had tear stains on it....
Actually, there are lots of guided visualization techniques that a therapist can help one with, that, actually, can help you change what is happening in your brain.....why not ask him/her to teach you some of them.....
Why not try it....you have got absolutely nothing to lose.....
If you do that consistently, you will find that it works....For one thing, it is impossible to have two thoughts in your mind, simultaneously. It uses one thought/feeling to push out another one, and cut through the selective recall (of just the good memories)…..
I used this method as one of my major tools, after a very painful breakup that left me as a hot mess....a..really...hot...mess. I kept the list on an index card and carried it in my bra. I used it at work, for instance, in the bathroom....After a while, it was worn on the edges and had tear stains on it....
Actually, there are lots of guided visualization techniques that a therapist can help one with, that, actually, can help you change what is happening in your brain.....why not ask him/her to teach you some of them.....
Why not try it....you have got absolutely nothing to lose.....
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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That is one of the tools I used as well. I didn't want to write that list, I thought I already know all that and it's not helping!
Finally I typed it out. It was long. I also found it helpful to put in some notations for some items, to make it more "real" and specific - something like:
Totally disregards my feelings - refuses to accept when I say no to something. Won't accompany me to events I want to go to but insists I attend with him and wont stop going on about it.
I should also mention, I had someone to talk to this about that understood. They kept telling me, he is not two people! My response would be no he's not BUT! always that but. My head would go round and round, I hated it, it would not settle, it wanted me to "solve" this.
Said person said to me (on more than one occasion) just let it go and I would try to explain that I would like to but my mind is insisting on solving this.
My approach was two fold. One, accepting he was one personality. Two - studying narcissism (as he was/is a full blown narcissist). I didn't know that much about it, I knew that narcissists were "self-centered" and not very nice, that's about it, I didn't even put a name to what he was until shortly before going no-contact.
I needed answers and in looking at narcissism I found them. It's a term tossed around a lot so I'm not saying your ex is or isn't, of course but it's worth looking at.
This is where I did a lot of my research, Sam Vaknin's papers:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Self-love, Narcissism, Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Relationships with Abusers, Stalkers, and Bullies - Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Re-Visited
Some of the topics I had to read several times, not because he doesn't write well but, the concepts to others can be hard to wrap your head around (sorry, I know you don't need more info to keep your mind occupied!).
Thing is, it's like knowing about alcoholism, knowledge is power and as I researched it became clear to me how he got to be who he was and how that played out and over a period of weeks my mind said - ok that's explains that.
Finally I typed it out. It was long. I also found it helpful to put in some notations for some items, to make it more "real" and specific - something like:
Totally disregards my feelings - refuses to accept when I say no to something. Won't accompany me to events I want to go to but insists I attend with him and wont stop going on about it.
I should also mention, I had someone to talk to this about that understood. They kept telling me, he is not two people! My response would be no he's not BUT! always that but. My head would go round and round, I hated it, it would not settle, it wanted me to "solve" this.
Said person said to me (on more than one occasion) just let it go and I would try to explain that I would like to but my mind is insisting on solving this.
My approach was two fold. One, accepting he was one personality. Two - studying narcissism (as he was/is a full blown narcissist). I didn't know that much about it, I knew that narcissists were "self-centered" and not very nice, that's about it, I didn't even put a name to what he was until shortly before going no-contact.
I needed answers and in looking at narcissism I found them. It's a term tossed around a lot so I'm not saying your ex is or isn't, of course but it's worth looking at.
This is where I did a lot of my research, Sam Vaknin's papers:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Self-love, Narcissism, Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Relationships with Abusers, Stalkers, and Bullies - Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Re-Visited
Some of the topics I had to read several times, not because he doesn't write well but, the concepts to others can be hard to wrap your head around (sorry, I know you don't need more info to keep your mind occupied!).
Thing is, it's like knowing about alcoholism, knowledge is power and as I researched it became clear to me how he got to be who he was and how that played out and over a period of weeks my mind said - ok that's explains that.
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Originally Posted by trailmix 
That is one of the tools I used as well. I didn't want to write that list, I thought I already know all that and it's not helping!
Finally I typed it out. It was long. I also found it helpful to put in some notations, to make it more "real" and specific - something like:
Totally disregards my feelings - refuses to accept when I say no to something. Won't accompany me to events I want to go to but insists I attend with him and wont stop going on about it.
I should also mention, I had someone to talk to this about that understood. They kept telling me, he is not two people! My response would be no he's not BUT! always that but. My head would go round and round, I hated it, it would not settle, it wanted me to "solve" this.
Said person said to me (on more than one occasion) just let it go and I would try to explain that I would like to but my mind is insisting on solving this.
My approach was two fold. One, accepting he was one personality. Two - studying narcissism (as he was/is a full blown narcissist). I didn't know that much about it, I knew that narcissists were "self-centered" and not very nice, that's about it, I didn't even put a name to what he was until shortly before going no-contact.
I needed answers and in looking at narcissism I found it. It's a term tossed around a lot so I'm not saying your ex is or isn't, of course but it's worth looking at.
This is where I did a lot of my research, Sam Vaknin's papers:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Self-love, Narcissism, Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Relationships with Abusers, Stalkers, and Bullies - Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Re-Visited
Some of the topics I had to read several times, not because he doesn't write well but, the concepts to others can be hard to wrap your head around (sorry, I know you don't need more info to keep your mind occupied!).
Thing is, it's like knowing about alcoholism, knowledge is power and as I researched it became clear to me how he got to be who he was and how that played out and over a period of weeks my mind said - ok that's explains that.
Finally I typed it out. It was long. I also found it helpful to put in some notations, to make it more "real" and specific - something like:
Totally disregards my feelings - refuses to accept when I say no to something. Won't accompany me to events I want to go to but insists I attend with him and wont stop going on about it.
I should also mention, I had someone to talk to this about that understood. They kept telling me, he is not two people! My response would be no he's not BUT! always that but. My head would go round and round, I hated it, it would not settle, it wanted me to "solve" this.
Said person said to me (on more than one occasion) just let it go and I would try to explain that I would like to but my mind is insisting on solving this.
My approach was two fold. One, accepting he was one personality. Two - studying narcissism (as he was/is a full blown narcissist). I didn't know that much about it, I knew that narcissists were "self-centered" and not very nice, that's about it, I didn't even put a name to what he was until shortly before going no-contact.
I needed answers and in looking at narcissism I found it. It's a term tossed around a lot so I'm not saying your ex is or isn't, of course but it's worth looking at.
This is where I did a lot of my research, Sam Vaknin's papers:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Self-love, Narcissism, Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Relationships with Abusers, Stalkers, and Bullies - Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Re-Visited
Some of the topics I had to read several times, not because he doesn't write well but, the concepts to others can be hard to wrap your head around (sorry, I know you don't need more info to keep your mind occupied!).
Thing is, it's like knowing about alcoholism, knowledge is power and as I researched it became clear to me how he got to be who he was and how that played out and over a period of weeks my mind said - ok that's explains that.
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Raindrops......are you willing to even try my suggestion for writing the negative things on paper....as I described above....it will give you some temporary islands of relief and redirect your mind......every time you read over the list....
It will keep you going....
Why not be willing to try...what do you have to lose?
It will keep you going....
Why not be willing to try...what do you have to lose?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Raindrops......are you willing to even try my suggestion for writing the negative things on paper....as I described above....it will give you some temporary islands of relief and redirect your mind......every time you read over the list....
It will keep you going....
Why not be willing to try...what do you have to lose?
It will keep you going....
Why not be willing to try...what do you have to lose?
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
One other thing, I did seek help afterward. I found I was almost scared of the sadness.
When he left the second time I was scared because the first time he left I was where you (probably) are right now - second time I was much, much better - but again, scared of going back to where I had been. It was depression, situational or not, I knew I didn't ever want to go back there, so I went to my GP and said - hey, i'm depressed and I need help with it and got it.
Being sad is one thing feeling desolate and unable to cope with the grief is another. I'm so glad you are reaching out for help.
Please don't isolate, if nothing else please continue to post here. Don't feel like you are posting too much. It takes a while to get out of this loop and talking to others can really help.
How did making the list go?
When he left the second time I was scared because the first time he left I was where you (probably) are right now - second time I was much, much better - but again, scared of going back to where I had been. It was depression, situational or not, I knew I didn't ever want to go back there, so I went to my GP and said - hey, i'm depressed and I need help with it and got it.
Being sad is one thing feeling desolate and unable to cope with the grief is another. I'm so glad you are reaching out for help.
Please don't isolate, if nothing else please continue to post here. Don't feel like you are posting too much. It takes a while to get out of this loop and talking to others can really help.
How did making the list go?
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https://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/the-real-reason-why-the-narcissist-punishes-you/
I found this and this has been such an eye opener for me to start shifting the focus from the narcissist and bring it back to me.
I found this and this has been such an eye opener for me to start shifting the focus from the narcissist and bring it back to me.
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Good article, I read a lot of it.
I totally agree with not joining groups that demonize them. I did originally and never felt comfortable. I didn't want to shift any of my power to him!
Now, that group was helpful in the beginning as it was my pushing off point, it set me in the right direction and I did pick up good pieces of information here and there.
She makes a lot of important points, especially about shifting the focus from him back to you.
The truth is, the person you knew in the beginning does not exist (except in the way he presented his false self) and that sucks and it's also painful and also in alignment with what many find with an alcoholic, the two are not dissimilar although what motivates the narcissist and the alcoholic (mostly) are different.
I totally agree with not joining groups that demonize them. I did originally and never felt comfortable. I didn't want to shift any of my power to him!
Now, that group was helpful in the beginning as it was my pushing off point, it set me in the right direction and I did pick up good pieces of information here and there.
She makes a lot of important points, especially about shifting the focus from him back to you.
The truth is, the person you knew in the beginning does not exist (except in the way he presented his false self) and that sucks and it's also painful and also in alignment with what many find with an alcoholic, the two are not dissimilar although what motivates the narcissist and the alcoholic (mostly) are different.
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Raindrops...you have perfectly stated what I am experiencing at this time. I live with the AH right now who is "in outpatient rehab" but all trust is lost. I appreciate that I found your words that explain these feelings. I feel so lost and upset, it's like spinning and uncontrollable thoughts are in charge of my mind and I can't get off the pendulum. The saddest part to me is knowing that whoever I married maybe never knew who he was or is. Anyway, right now I have SR and Al Anon when I can make it--my feelings are too much to try to explain to my family and I've only told 3 friends but without major detail. Well, wait, I did see a counselor this week, but won't see her again for two weeks. Maybe if you haven't talked to a doctor, you could ask for medication to help with the depression you're experiencing. Sometimes medication changes everything and allows you to get over the hump. I may ask my doctor to change what I take; it won't solve my problems, but I will take what I can get.
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Originally Posted by clarity888
Maybe if you haven't talked to a doctor, you could ask for medication to help with the depression you're experiencing. Sometimes medication changes everything and allows you to get over the hump. I may ask my doctor to change what I take; it won't solve my problems, but I will take what I can get.
I don't know what your feelings are about that Raindrops but certainly worth discussing with your doctor if you are comfortable with that. If medication is suggested it doesn't have to be "forever". Even with situational depression sometimes medication is suggested and can help to calm the brain and get you thinking more clearly.
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