lessgravity

I never, ever want to drink again.

Regardless of the demons, the life events, the causes and reasons and justifications and excuses, the mental issues, the opportunities, the success or lack-thereofs - nothing is more selfish than taking one's life and leaving behind young children. To say nothing of the parents and family and friends. I say this as someone who has been touched, deeply, by suicide in my life.

It's relevant regarding my sobriety and my decision to finally grow up and take responsibility for my life and my obligations as a man and a father. Makes me think about my decisions to give into the demon of addiction again and again, like I did for so many years, in the face of the responsibilities I had as a father, causing what I am sure are going to be real, perhaps life-long damages to my son - I'm ashamed.

But I'm not defeated. And I'm sober. So now I can at least do my best to make up for my mistakes and poor decisions. Which is more than can be said about Bourdain. For all the joy he may have brought me and the rest of us, he hurt the most vulnerable and valuable person in the world that he could have. Instead of all the social media salutes to him I keep seeing, that's what I'll be taking away today.

Maudcat

Both Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain left young children.
So very sad.

SaturatedSeize

I agree with you to a certain extent.

The topic of suicide is a touchy one but also worth discussing.

I agree, as a Father, I could never imagine putting that amount of hurt onto my daughter. It doesn't compute with my brain.

I once read a comment on a Facebook post when Robin Williams ended his life. It explained how when somebody is facing that severe of depression, they have themselves convinced their family is better off without them around, that they are doing more harm then good, alive. That perspective and being in that dark of a place is incredibly scary and I can't imagine living that way, day to day. It opened my perspective up to depression in an entirely different way and helped me understand (not that it's my place, really) why some individuals make that decision.

My counselor asked me last week the famous question of if I ever wanted to harm myself and without hesitation I answered, absolutely not, I could never do that to my daughter. I don't have those demons to face and if anything, it's another example of mental health and how it effects our society (not that we need more examples).

I still believe, like you, it's a selfish decision, but, as an addict, I also understand how unhealthy thoughts can drive my self-defeating behaviors. I need help through my sobriety just like somebody with severe depression needs help.

Was some good food for thought for me, anyways.

doggonecarl

True. But depression, despair, suicide--like addiction--is a very selfish affliction.

entropy1964

I hear ya LG. As someone who has tried to off herself.....ugh. Can't believe I did that and so glad I made it. I've never tried to harm myself sober. I don't have stats but I'm pretty sure substances play heavily in suicide.

As far as the harm done to our children? Yeah. Its a thing. Obviously. I think about it all the time. I just hope my daughter doesn't become me. Ugh.

trailmix

And maybe that was just too much for him. I've thought about your post today lessgravity and while I understand your view, to commit suicide, to end his life, where must his mind have been at?

We don't know that, thankfully, while many or all of us might have pondered it at some time, that dark a place of no hope, no way to see forward, that must be hell.


So I don't hold judgement on him or anyone else, just empathy that he was there and could not see any other option.

alphaomega

Darkness grabs and pulls at us, oftentimes in the least expected days.

I have had 3 separate instances where I was literally FINE one hour, then so overcome with complete and utter despair the next, that had I not been guided in another direction, I would have crashed that car into that brick wall that was screaming at me to come at it full force.

Evil finds your personal loophole and takes its best shot.

And it can happen in a matter of literal minutes.

If you have not ever bared witness to this type of indescribable negative pull, consider yourself not selfless, but rather damn lucky.

And don't be so sure that someday, sometime, you may not be beckoned, and succumb, to overwhelming darkness.

No judgment. Just complete sorrow for losing one of the most authentic souls that ever tried to get it right down here.

soberista

[QUOTE=doggonecarl;6920740]True. But depression, despair, suicide--like addiction--is a very selfish affliction.

What a totally crass statement.

doggonecarl

How so?

thomas11

[QUOTE=soberista;6920819] Sorry, but I disagree. Suicide is a selfish endeavor no matter how you slice it. The person is only thinking of themselves and no one else.

I view it differently for those who are terminally ill. Touchy subject.

Porcetta

This sums things up quite succicently:

"Please, people, do not f**k with depression. It's merciless. All it wants is to get you in a room alone and kill you. Take care of yourself".

ScottFromWI

Folks....let's remember that we are a community of support here. Certainly the subjects at hand are serious and close to our community, but we can discuss them without taking shots at each other.

doggonecarl

I probably should have not painted with such a broad brush, but rather, spoken from an "I" perspective instead.

My depression, addiction, despair was aggressively self-consuming.

I found it hard to give.
I lacked empathy.
It was all about me. My sorrow, my sadness, my pleasure seeking.
It affected my “self” totally. It lived in my headspace, it was something I internalized .
I was miserable with my life and couldn’t see past that.

My affliction made me selfish, like a failing organ makes a person ill. I was ill.

lessgravity

Where is anyone here taking a "shot" at another? Seems like a very serious, emotional topic. Not seeing anything personal exchanged.

WeaverBird

I'm just glad we're talking about suicide. It's a pretty emotive subject and still quite taboo.

I heard someone say about suicide that "something gets inside their head, they can't get it out, and we don't know what it is yet." This has stuck with me. I think perhaps the pain the suicide was feeling is spread out amongst those people left behind. I don't know if this is true.

I didn't know that every family has been touched by suicide somewhere in its dynamic. It is much more common than I realised.

I am always glad when we start speaking about human issues. I think real progress can be made once we drop the shame and we put our heads together to understand.

Thanks for the post Less and thanks for all the replies. I have learned a lot. Prayers and love, Weev.

ScottFromWI

You are right, it is an emotionally charged topic. And topics as such generate responses that are sometimes written before thinking about how they might be read by others. My suggestion is for those who have comments to make to do it in a courteous/constructive way.

Anna

I think there is some serious judgement being posted on this thread.

I have enormous sadness and compassion for Anthony Bourdain. I cannot imagine the immense emotional pain he must have been fighting.

Let's remember that this is a community of support. Discussing depression and suicide is fine, but let's keep in mind that we are here to support each other and not to point a finger at someone who has made a truly desperate decision.

Please use this instance as an opportunity to look at people in your family, in your life and see if there is someone there who you could reach out to.

lessgravity

Judgment towards Bourdain, perhaps - but I don't see it directed towards each other here.

And I do judge Bourdain, as I judge the people who were part of my life who made the same decision as him. I know many, very well, who have suffered deeply, but have made the hardest of decisions NOT to kill themselves, in order to protect their loved ones from the inevitable and horrible pain.

It is the right time to reach out. It's also the right time to look at all the social media posts, Twitter is awash with them, where Bourdain has alcohol in his hand. He glorified what, if he was suffering from depression, clinical or not, he should have forsaken.

Anna

LG, there are many things I 'should have done' in my life, which I didn't do.

I imagine many of us here have not made the right decisions in some instances.

I will not use the word 'should' speaking about Anthony Bourdain, nor will I judge him. I believe, very deeply, that he felt his family/friends would be better off without him.

alphaomega

You can have everything,

Absolutely everything that everyone thinks makes this life worthwhile.

Love, children, disposable income, the dearest of friends, worldly travelled, five Emmys, be a published author, a household tv name, a rags to riches success beyond most of our wildest imaginations.

You can be 61 and still have a full head of hair and no gut.

Evil can grab you up in a split second.
And oftentimes there is absolutely no warning.

Just an impending , inexplicably impulsive, unwavering pull and motivation to just cut bait.

It’s inexplicable.
Unless you have gone through it.

And managed to survive.

The several times in my life when I actually had a damn good reason to want to die, I couldn’t even so much as think about ending it.

It was the times that I was entirely fine one minute, and completely obliterated the next, that scared the living hell out me.

Literally.