What would you do?
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What would you do?
Okay so I feel stupid just posting this. I can't believe I'm actually puzzled about how to handle this. So I need advice:
A friend from rehab, who lives out of state, has relapsed 4 times since we got out. She stays in touch with a few of the people that I see around my local meetings. We usually talk about how others that we share acquaintance with are doing. Actually, I don't ask. But others volunteer information and then ask me about so and so, and so and so etc.
This person that has relapsed does not want me to tell anyone. Ok, that's fine. I have told her that being honest is pretty darned important. That she is really just deceiving herself, etc. But I'm sworn to secrecy so there it is. And its not my business....except that I care about her and see her delusion, as well as her tremendous fear of being judged, as part of her problem. Anyway, there are a couple of people here locally that I really have a bond with. I have had to lie to them both several times about this person and it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I'm not resentful at all, that's not it. I feel terrible lying. I have tried saying "I don't talk about anyone else's recovery" but I see that that shuts people down. Its not like we are gossiping, its merely checking in and asking how someone is doing. Ugh.
Not sure why this is such a big deal. If I say something like "I don't know, ask them" still lying. I hate it.
This is so petty. Anyway, what would you do?
A friend from rehab, who lives out of state, has relapsed 4 times since we got out. She stays in touch with a few of the people that I see around my local meetings. We usually talk about how others that we share acquaintance with are doing. Actually, I don't ask. But others volunteer information and then ask me about so and so, and so and so etc.
This person that has relapsed does not want me to tell anyone. Ok, that's fine. I have told her that being honest is pretty darned important. That she is really just deceiving herself, etc. But I'm sworn to secrecy so there it is. And its not my business....except that I care about her and see her delusion, as well as her tremendous fear of being judged, as part of her problem. Anyway, there are a couple of people here locally that I really have a bond with. I have had to lie to them both several times about this person and it makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I'm not resentful at all, that's not it. I feel terrible lying. I have tried saying "I don't talk about anyone else's recovery" but I see that that shuts people down. Its not like we are gossiping, its merely checking in and asking how someone is doing. Ugh.
Not sure why this is such a big deal. If I say something like "I don't know, ask them" still lying. I hate it.
This is so petty. Anyway, what would you do?
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I don't think it's your place to out her. I also wouldn't lie. I would say (to others who ask) - "Janet and I have discussed our recovery journeys a little bit, and I've agreed to keep the conversations between the two of us."
If people don't like your reply regarding her, that's their problem.
Obviously she trusts you and it isn't really fair of her to swear you to secrecy, but if you've agreed to it I think you have to abide by that. You can always end any conversation at any time - so you don't have to be her sounding board, ya know?
She may have no one else she trusts...but that's her issue.
If people don't like your reply regarding her, that's their problem.
Obviously she trusts you and it isn't really fair of her to swear you to secrecy, but if you've agreed to it I think you have to abide by that. You can always end any conversation at any time - so you don't have to be her sounding board, ya know?
She may have no one else she trusts...but that's her issue.
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Anonymity
I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question in recovery.😉 Your email prompted me to think of tradition 12. "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place principles before personalities" If I was in your position I would be respectful to her anonymity. It's a tough one because it sounds like you care about her but that's what I would do. Good luck!
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Would these people you have to tell go back to your relapser friend and tell her? If not, and the lying is really bugging you i'd be truthful but gentle. Like maybe saying "I think s he's having a bit of a bumpy road", as opposed to "SHE'S RELAPSED FOUR TIMES!!!". I dunno.
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I posted something about setting your values on another thread, and someone else responded kindly about it. Since doing a lot of work around my values, I now look at ethical dilemmas through that frame.
Sounds like you value loyalty to your friend. Or you could value openness more. Whichever it is, I think it helps to understand your values, and adopt an approach that is consistent with them (and then adopt that approach consistently). That is the way to live with integrity.
Personally, I would honour my promise to my friend not to tell. Then I would say something straightforward like "I have heard from [x]. Yes, she's doing ok. Has she relapsed? [Pause, smile] You should speak to her yourself." And if pressed: "I'm not going to breach her confidence."
It might become pretty darn obvious that she has relapsed but they haven't heard it from you. I sometimes don't care if people know I know more but just won't say. Part of my job actually is to keep confidences. In my line, we get used to saying politely, "That's confidential." People can draw their own conclusions. People who expect you to cross that line are being rude. I consider keeping confidences a matter of honour ... but those are my values.
Sounds like you value loyalty to your friend. Or you could value openness more. Whichever it is, I think it helps to understand your values, and adopt an approach that is consistent with them (and then adopt that approach consistently). That is the way to live with integrity.
Personally, I would honour my promise to my friend not to tell. Then I would say something straightforward like "I have heard from [x]. Yes, she's doing ok. Has she relapsed? [Pause, smile] You should speak to her yourself." And if pressed: "I'm not going to breach her confidence."
It might become pretty darn obvious that she has relapsed but they haven't heard it from you. I sometimes don't care if people know I know more but just won't say. Part of my job actually is to keep confidences. In my line, we get used to saying politely, "That's confidential." People can draw their own conclusions. People who expect you to cross that line are being rude. I consider keeping confidences a matter of honour ... but those are my values.
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Oh dear, sorry you are in this position.
I have been in similar positions, shudder, it isnt comfortable at all. I dealt with it by referring them to the actual person to ask their questions of. Then changing the subject.
I found putting my full focus on my own recover was my best way forward.
Good luck.
I have been in similar positions, shudder, it isnt comfortable at all. I dealt with it by referring them to the actual person to ask their questions of. Then changing the subject.
I found putting my full focus on my own recover was my best way forward.
Good luck.
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i have been on both sides of this. in my opinion it is not your place to share what is going on in other peoples recovery. keep your friends trust and say the same to the others. Not my place to talk about other people. The sad thing is. this is the issue that i have had with AA. People talk about other people alot. I am saying, this has been my experience over 5 years... At times, I feel like I am back in highschool and its clicky. stay true to your friend.
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Bimini, I like your answer. I would further have a discussion with my friend who is relapsing and tell her that she is putting (me) in a difficult position by swearing me to keep her secrets. She's losing credence with our friendship I'd tell her. To keep those kinds of secrets serves her issue not the friendship. Take it directly back to this friend and if you lose her you lose her but living in your truth is so worth it.
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Do you consider a friend?? if you do, respect her wishes. dont judge. because all of the people that are saying opposite have relasped also.... keep her trust, and when she is ready to get herself back so knows she can always come to you., A friend!
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Originally Posted by comtnman740 
I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question in recovery.😉 Your email prompted me to think of tradition 12. "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place principles before personalities" If I was in your position I would be respectful to her anonymity. It's a tough one because it sounds like you care about her but that's what I would do. Good luck!
I know I am guilty of it, but discussing others' situations- even mutual friends- can quickly get any of us in direct conflict with step 12. We care about people and we are human and we want connection....but I have been thinking about what, how and to whom I say things a lot lately. Gossip can get ugly very fast in recovery (possibly more so than in regular life, ha)....
Ultimately, I'd apply the "stay in my lane" approach and not participate in conversations. If asked about someone I don't want to (or shouldn't) talk about, I think I will just direct things back to me and say (here is a truth) "I've been so busy lately! I haven't been great at responding to folks (or whatever)" - basically, a basic truth that I can use to change the topic- or exit the conversation.
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Originally Posted by Porcetta
I'd be concentrating on my own journey and direct people straight to the person
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
I don't think it's your place to out her. I also wouldn't lie. I would say (to others who ask) - "Janet and I have discussed our recovery journeys a little bit, and I've agreed to keep the conversations between the two of us."
If people don't like your reply regarding her, that's their problem.
Obviously she trusts you and it isn't really fair of her to swear you to secrecy, but if you've agreed to it I think you have to abide by that. You can always end any conversation at any time - so you don't have to be her sounding board, ya know?
She may have no one else she trusts...but that's her issue.
If people don't like your reply regarding her, that's their problem.
Obviously she trusts you and it isn't really fair of her to swear you to secrecy, but if you've agreed to it I think you have to abide by that. You can always end any conversation at any time - so you don't have to be her sounding board, ya know?
She may have no one else she trusts...but that's her issue.
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Originally Posted by comtnman740
I don't think there is such thing as a stupid question in recovery.😉 Your email prompted me to think of tradition 12. "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place principles before personalities" If I was in your position I would be respectful to her anonymity. It's a tough one because it sounds like you care about her but that's what I would do. Good luck!
. Haha.Yeah, maybe I can make light of the question and throw out step 12....'bro come on, step 12 yo?' Yes I like that! I joke around a lot so that could work. If I get too serious they'll know I'm covering, if that makes sense.
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Originally Posted by thomas11
Would these people you have to tell go back to your relapser friend and tell her? If not, and the lying is really bugging you i'd be truthful but gentle. Like maybe saying "I think s he's having a bit of a bumpy road", as opposed to "SHE'S RELAPSED FOUR TIMES!!!". I dunno.
And there is the part where I feel like if she were honest with them when she talks with them I wouldn't be in this position. And she would be facing her truth. She's in 12 step so I think that would be suggested.
But that is of course entirely her call.
I'm just a crap liar.
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Thanks Miss perfumado. Yes!!!!
Values. Maybe it's more about that than I realize. Keeping her secret? For sure. Loyalty? Big time.
But, out of the, I dunno, 40 of us from rehab only 4 of us, that I know of, haven't relapsed. Many have and they've come back. No one judges, surely not me. I've had one of the craziest times getting sober of anyone I know. I don't tell war stories usually but besides legal problems I've experienced it all. Crazy crazy dark stuff. So I feel only compassion. But maybe it's a friendship thing....her being so brazenly dishonest with several people. On the one hand, I guess I'm flattered that she trusts me. On the other, I value honesty. It's weird.
Values. Maybe it's more about that than I realize. Keeping her secret? For sure. Loyalty? Big time.
But, out of the, I dunno, 40 of us from rehab only 4 of us, that I know of, haven't relapsed. Many have and they've come back. No one judges, surely not me. I've had one of the craziest times getting sober of anyone I know. I don't tell war stories usually but besides legal problems I've experienced it all. Crazy crazy dark stuff. So I feel only compassion. But maybe it's a friendship thing....her being so brazenly dishonest with several people. On the one hand, I guess I'm flattered that she trusts me. On the other, I value honesty. It's weird.
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Originally Posted by Am2144
i have been on both sides of this. in my opinion it is not your place to share what is going on in other peoples recovery. keep your friends trust and say the same to the others. Not my place to talk about other people. The sad thing is. this is the issue that i have had with AA. People talk about other people alot. I am saying, this has been my experience over 5 years... At times, I feel like I am back in highschool and its clicky. stay true to your friend.
It's this rehab closeness.....and for sure, I wouldn't betry her.
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Originally Posted by Ladysadie
Bimini, I like your answer. I would further have a discussion with my friend who is relapsing and tell her that she is putting (me) in a difficult position by swearing me to keep her secrets. She's losing credence with our friendship I'd tell her. To keep those kinds of secrets serves her issue not the friendship. Take it directly back to this friend and if you lose her you lose her but living in your truth is so worth it.
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