Not actually in recovery?

Old 05-21-2018, 10:26 AM
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Not actually in recovery?

How do you know when someone is actually in recovery?

My RAH stopped drinking about a year ago, and started seeing a therapist every week. No AA or anything--he claimed he didn't want to go because it was a small town and he didn't want to embarrass his mother--but after talking to her, I think he just didn't want to embarrass himself.

Last summer was pretty good. I did everything I could to support him, and we bought a camping trailer to enjoy with our son for the summer.

Since he quit drinking he started isolating himself, which has only seemed to increase. He would go to bed and watch shows on his iPad every night around 6PM, even on the weekends. He wouldn't go anywhere with me and our son on the weekends unless I practically begged him. I enjoy going to new places and exploring, especially during the summer. It got to the point where if I asked him to watch a movie with me on a Friday night, he would decline. I mean talk about minimal effort involved on his part

I found out a couple months ago that he had been hiding (since maybe last August???) that he was taking xanax, adderall, sleeping pills, and had started smoking cigarettes. He even went to the extreme to have spy cameras (they looked like USB chargers) in certain places in the house so he could see where I was if he wanted to go have a cigarette at night. (as an aside, every time I mention the spy cameras he claims he bought them to watch our son, but I'm like... wouldn't you have shared that information with me, then? Like every other camera we've gotten to watch him?)

Anyway, after that, he ended up moving out about a month ago to a rental property his parents own. I went through this whole ordeal thinking somehow it was my fault. It was something I was doing that was making him not want to spend time with me--it was something I was doing that was making him hide things from me... But since he's been living alone, the isolating has only really gotten worse. He works from home more often. He barely speaks to his mother. I have had two of his best friends call me to check on him (which is a huge red flag, right?!). I guess he hasn't been talking to his friends either. He hasn't been going to therapy as much anymore.

He also hasn't been spending as much time with our son as I had anticipated, and it breaks my heart. He was out of town for work last week and has to travel again this week. Instead of hanging out with his son last weekend and catching a short flight on Monday morning, he took our camping trailer Saturday morning and drove to the location--saying he didn't want to deal with airports, people, etc. And was planning on camping on public land on his way there so he didn't have to see anyone.

This isn't normal, right? What is also weird is that he keeps complaining that his mother and I don't ask him how he is doing or give him compliments. I am working really hard to disentangle myself from him right now and the last thing I feel like doing is bending over to accommodate his feelings. Lately, he has been making small jabs at my physical appearance when we speak, insinuating I have a boyfriend, and has told me that a few people don't like me.

I cried at the therapists office for an hour before I had the guts to tell him that I didn't want him to move back in, I didn't want to go with him when he invited me to go to the museum with him and our son. Or that I didn't want to do mothers day brunch with him ( which I eventually caved and went to). That sounds stupid, but I am terrified of making him upset. After I told him that, he went home and I got a string of texts later about how I'm "missing part of the puzzle"--all the reasons he doesn't want to fight for our marriage anymore--but he says he wont tell me those reasons because he is a good person who doesn't want to hurt other people's feelings. Implying that I am mean for telling him all those things. And that there are things wrong with me that make him not love me. Anyway, whenever I express how I'm feeling, somehow I'm always wrong or mean or end up apologizing for it in the end.

Anyway, he doesn't appear to be in any sort of recovery to me, and even appears to be getting worse. I have no idea if he is using anything other than the adderall--which I don't think he needs--but he claims it helps him not drink. I thought he smelled a little hungover the other weekend, but I don't know. I'm assuming that if I think he is using something, he probably is. Have you guys ever been wrong?

There's still this voice inside me, although it is quieter than it has been in the past, that says "maybe you're not trying hard enough." "maybe if you are nicer to him, he will change" "maybe there's something wrong with you that you need to fix to make him happy" Maybe I'm looking for validation that this voice needs to shut up. I am continuing to moving along the path forward to making a life for myself and my son without him, though. Unless he shows me (with actions) that he is changing. But it's still hard.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:49 AM
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To address the title of your post, I have to say that he does not seem to be in recovery or any kind of program. Isolating and hiding things are habits of the addict, whether he substance is alcohol or pills. He may have quit drinking, but instead of entering a program of recovery, it sounds like he replaced it with other things. Alcoholics get into the habit of lying and deceiving as a kind of default mode sometimes; getting honest is a cornerstone of recovery.

You can’t do anything more to help him if he doesn’t want to embrace full recovery. It’s part of the reason why the 12-step programs are so successful: people follow a structured set of principles that demand honesty and discipline. It seems like he was grieving the loss of alcohol and couldn’t take it, so either he’s been hiding it from you or he replaced it with another toxic habit that requires lying. You have no control over that.

Further, I find it much meaner to say that you’re “missing a piece of the puzzle” instead of just talking about it like an adult. Mind games are crueler than any truth. It seems like he’s depressed or something. It’s heartbreakinf to watch someone destroy themselves, and infuriating to think they continue to lie. If he won’t give you a straight explanation and prove that he’s working toward a change, I think he is digging his own grave.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:06 AM
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to be honest, he sounds just plain weird.
all those cameras in the house? creepy.
all the drugs he is taking? not recovery.

this is not anything YOU did. we can't NICE away addiction, or LOVE it away. it is not ours to fix or remedy.

they say when people show you who they are, believe them.

what is he showing you?
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
to be honest, he sounds just plain weird.
all those cameras in the house? creepy.
all the drugs he is taking? not recovery.

this is not anything YOU did. we can't NICE away addiction, or LOVE it away. it is not ours to fix or remedy.

they say when people show you who they are, believe them.

what is he showing you?
I agree with the weird. I must sound like a lunatic to the therapist because I continually say "something just isn't RIGHT, he's just... weird" I try to compare the person he is now to the person I met 12 years ago, and it's just... so weird.

Anyway, right now he is SHOWING me that he:
doesn't respect me (the lying, mean jokes, he broke an agreed-upon rule and smoked inside our house last week when I was out of town)
doesn't consider me or his son a priority over work
doesn't consider his recovery a priority over work (or at all? haha)
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:30 AM
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If he's taking addictive drugs there is no recovery. As they say "you can't be high and sober at the same time."
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:47 AM
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It doesn't sound like recovery to me.....
Kick that voice, in your head, to the curb! You know that it is wrong....
I am glad that you are working with a therapist.....
sounds like your self esteem could use some nurturing......
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:56 AM
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Anyway, right now he is SHOWING me that he:
doesn't respect me (the lying, mean jokes, he broke an agreed-upon rule and smoked inside our house last week when I was out of town)
I hope he wasn’t watching your son while you were away.

He doesn’t sound at all like he’s in any kind of recovery. Is it the therapist who is prescribing him the drugs?
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:57 AM
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Maybe it's just me, but real recovery in my book should help you change into the best possible version of you. There is usually no mistaking when a person has really embraced recovery honestly and deliberately. Almost everything about them changes. If something doesn't smell right to you, it probably isn't.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
I hope he wasn’t watching your son while you were away.

He doesn’t sound at all like he’s in any kind of recovery. Is it the therapist who is prescribing him the drugs?
He was! It was 2 nights and I was pretty anxious about it, but I facetimed him and had his mother checking in on him as well. I guess it all went okay...

The therapist is a psychologist so no... from what I have gathered, RAH was describing some things to therapist, who said something like "that sounds like it could be ADD..." and then RAH went to a family practice doctor, took that survey they give you, and got the prescription. (I've looked at the questionnaire and cant imagine him answering yes to more than maybe 2 of them, hah...) Therapist told me that he didn't suggest that RAH go on medication at all.

I'm assuming he started taking adderall because work was one of his main stressors and it was a way for him to have control over it. Over his productivity, confidence, etc. After he felt like he had a handle on work, he turned his "stressor focus" from work onto me. Now that he's living alone I have no idea where his blame-shifting is going to end up. I just pray it is never our son.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:20 PM
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Ugh Autumnmama, this sound like a horrible situation to be living in,

Also, as it is said, more will be revealed with time.

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Old 05-21-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways View Post
Ugh Autumnmama, this sound like a horrible situation to be living in,

Also, as it is said, more will be revealed with time.

Thanks. I like that saying but it also bugs me because I am impatient. I wish if things were going to implode, that it would just hurry up and happen already so I could move along. I feel like I am watching a car crash in slow motion.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:23 PM
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I had a therapist tell me that it's quite easy to get yourself into being Agoraphobic if not careful. She has a friend who went through some things and now, a few years later, completely isolates and won't even leave to go to the store and nearly died b/c she did not want to go to the hospital when ill. I don't know if that is happening to him, but it sounds like it could turn to that.

He sounds depressed, however he also does not seem ready to accept any responsibility or tell any truths about what is happening in his head. My XAH takes enough Xanax to put down an elephant, I can only say it makes him tired and withdrawn. When he drinks it makes him blackout drunk and mean.

It sounds like he needs a new therapist and psychologist who he is ready to be honest with, and the reality is that may never happen.

Sending you huge hugs. I would not leave a child in his care, ever. All of this is just my .02

(FYI...Adderall is just legal coke, and Xanax is a benzo. So uppers and downers)
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:43 PM
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I understand that feeling. Maybe if you stopped walking on the eggshells it would "implode" - note I don't mean do anything that would put you in an unsafe position.
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:19 PM
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When we are genuinely working our recovery, it really shows.

Sorry you are in this very difficult situation.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:55 PM
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I wish if things were going to implode, that it would just hurry up and happen already so I could move along.

you have permission to move along at ANY time. you do not need BAD things to happen....or should i say BADDER.....the longer we stay in untenable situations, the fewer options we have at our disposal to leave. we can wait TOO long.....
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:56 PM
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My husband did the same pattern of things... the camera inside our house and then the mean comments ... he said he wanted to watch the dog while he was at work but would not give me the password for the software. He also got the camera installed while I was at work. Weird as weird can be. I think it's a control issue. When they have no control over themselves, they seek control elsewhere. I unplugged the camera when I was packing to leave- that's what you get for having the camera inside the house and not outside where it belongs. People do weird things when they feel that they are losing control without realising that they are the ones acting crazy, not the whole world around them.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:47 AM
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Reminds me of my ex who planned how to scam the doctors in order to obtain pills he didn’t need.

I’m sure he knew ahead of time the questions that would be asked and how to answer them so that he walked out of the doctor’s appointment with what he actually went in there for. Then he throws in the fact he's seeing a therapist who suggested it, and BAM he hits the addict lottery!

Adderall is abused all the time, it’s like speed…………lots of highs and lots of lows.

I'm assuming he started taking adderall because work was one of his main stressors and it was a way for him to have control over it. Over his productivity, confidence, etc. After he felt like he had a handle on work, he turned his "stressor focus" from work onto me. Now that he's living alone I have no idea where his blame-shifting is going to end up. I just pray it is never our son.
Try not to make excuses for why he’s doing what he’s doing………….he’s doing what he’s doing because he’s an addict, period. Addicts blame, addicts accuse everyone for everything but don’t ever include themselves in those calculations.

I agree, why do you have to wait for things to implode? Why can’t you just get out of the way now before the car crashes? Why do you feel you need to be part of it?
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:10 AM
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Not in recovery, far from it!
My RAH has stopped many times over the years and it never lasted long. The second to last time he quit for a year but did not work any programs. I had suggested he get help and he wanted to try it on his own one more time (which basically means fail). He did not want to go to AA because our town is not that big and because of his work he knows a lot of people. Now I know that he did not want it out in the open because he was not really serious about recovery. And when he quit drinking he was basically just a drunk without alcohol to cope. So all his behaviors and attitudes were the same and probably worse because he could not drink

He went to mandatory rehab 1.5 years ago and has been doing well sobriety wise. I was at my rock bottom and told him he had to seek treatment or I was gone. He was at a point where he himself was close to being ready to quit so that helped. since then we have both learned that substance is only a very small part of the problems and stopping the substance does not mean recovery. Recovery means changing his behaviors, learning coping skills etc. He now goes to many AA meetings in town and is very open about his problem. Unfortunately it damaged our relationship a lot on my end and we are still splitting up. I have also had to change my codependent ways and am finally being true to my own feelings. I tend to be a people pleaser so always worrying about everyone else's feelings and not my own. It has been hard because I feel guilt over not being able to get past this now that he is clean and has changed a lot. But things changed while he was an active alcoholic at least from my end. I feel like I should like him because he is not a bad guy at all. But once the feelings are gone it's hard to get back

I hope you are going to alanon or at least individual counseling so that you will learn that his issues have nothing to do with what you do or don't do. They try and make us believe that because if only we did "insert blank" then maybe they will stop drinking. Read codependent no more as well.

And switching to pills etc just means he changed his addiction although chances are good he is still drinking as well. and I am sorry, but installing cameras in your house without telling you??? I think I would be done at that point.

You cannot change him and no matter how nice you are to him it won't make him quit. At least not long term. Maybe short term to lull you into a false sense of security so you won't leave.

Like others say, if someone is really in recovery you will know, they will work a program and not sneak around.

I would probably proceed to move on without him. And if by some sort of miracle that wakes him up and he gets serious about recovery then you can always reconsider. But even with that he would need to be in true recovery for at least a year. But he does not sound like he is ready.

I'm sorry you are going through this. But start taking care of you. I am not much of a counseling person but I would have been lost without it these past 1.5 years. You can be doing everything "right" and it won't make a difference for him unless he is willing to change himself. Not sure how old your kid is but being in an environment like that is no good for him.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
I wish if things were going to implode, that it would just hurry up and happen already so I could move along.

you have permission to move along at ANY time. you do not need BAD things to happen....or should i say BADDER.....the longer we stay in untenable situations, the fewer options we have at our disposal to leave. we can wait TOO long.....
Yeah I understand! Our son and I are currently living apart from him, with no plans to move back in with him. We are going to list the house to sell soon, and I am planning on going my separate way with half of whatever money we make on it. So I'm on a trajectory away from him, and I'm slowly detaching. I guess I just want him to implode so I can stop waiting for it to happen.

But I guess that until he is in a real recovery program, there is always going to be the threat of some trainwreck with him looming in the future.

Ugh I just realized that while typing it out! There is so much new (codependency) stuff coming at me lately that it's hard to keep everything in focus at one time. I'm currently transitioning between two different therapists (transitioning from going to the same one as he is going to, to a new one), reading here, listening to podcasts, etc. It's great but also a little overwhelming at times. Like drinking through a fire-hose at times!
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:25 PM
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I have heard that "recovery looks like recovery" - so if you have to work really hard to convince yourself that you see signs that maybe he's changing for the better - you're doing too much work.

I went Whoa! at the spy camera thing. I can't think of any version of "healthy" which includes secret cameras in a home you share with someone else.

Aren't there a couple of other regular posters who have had to deal with cameras and surveillance equipment installed by an alcoholic? Has this become a Thing?
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