How to talk to kids about father's drug use
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How to talk to kids about father's drug use
I'm thinking about talking to my kids about their father's drug use. I'm scared to death to do it, but I think I need to.
Our court order specifies that neither parent should speak disparagingly of the other, or do anything to diminish the children's love. It also says that we are not to talk about anything regarding the court with them.
Well, that was the original order, before all hell broke loose. But even though the order's been modified for father to have supervised visitation (which he just stopped exercising 2 months ago), that part of the order is still in effect.
So what do I tell them? So far, I've just been saying "Your dad has some things he needs to work on."
And then he tells them over the phone, "This is all your mom's fault. You'll see. You'll be living with me soon. The truth will come out."
So I'm playing by the rules, he's not. I feel like I'm protecting his reputation at the expense of my own. And the kids deserve an explanation. But I'm not so sure how much to tell them.
Today I went to Barnes and Noble to find a book about how to talk to kids about parental drug abuse. Not. A. Single. One. The nation's capital for illegal drug use and not a single book on the topic. Wow.
I found a few that look decent online. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one and have the conversation.
I hope I can do this in the best possible way. If you have any advice I'd appreciate it.
Our court order specifies that neither parent should speak disparagingly of the other, or do anything to diminish the children's love. It also says that we are not to talk about anything regarding the court with them.
Well, that was the original order, before all hell broke loose. But even though the order's been modified for father to have supervised visitation (which he just stopped exercising 2 months ago), that part of the order is still in effect.
So what do I tell them? So far, I've just been saying "Your dad has some things he needs to work on."
And then he tells them over the phone, "This is all your mom's fault. You'll see. You'll be living with me soon. The truth will come out."
So I'm playing by the rules, he's not. I feel like I'm protecting his reputation at the expense of my own. And the kids deserve an explanation. But I'm not so sure how much to tell them.
Today I went to Barnes and Noble to find a book about how to talk to kids about parental drug abuse. Not. A. Single. One. The nation's capital for illegal drug use and not a single book on the topic. Wow.
I found a few that look decent online. I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one and have the conversation.
I hope I can do this in the best possible way. If you have any advice I'd appreciate it.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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This is such a tough situation. It sounds like this man’s life is largely dictated by drugs, which certainly is sad. Depending on how old your kids are, I think telling them the truth from a constructive approach would be a good idea... kids pick up on more than people realize, so they may already have an inkling of what is going on. Maybe it would even motivate him to ditch the drugs for the sake of his children? He sounds like he’s in a vindictive place though, so proceed with extreme caution. If he somehow twists it to make it seem like you’re trying to get them to turn against him, it could backfire and make things even more complicated. Have you asked a lawyer for advice?
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I agree with Vigilance. Talk to a lawyer.
Does your children's school have a social worker or some other mental health professional on staff? It may be a good idea to consult him/her for advice for two reasons 1) you're talking to a professional and 2) you can document that you consulted a professional about this. The fact that he is skipping visitations is probably wearing heavily on your children. You'd probably want to talk to their school anyway to make them aware of what's going on.
If you homeschool your kids, I wonder if the court system has a family social worker on board if you can't reach a school counselor. If your ex is skipping supervised visits and continues to do so, the court's going to have to get involved in this anyway sooner or later.
Does your children's school have a social worker or some other mental health professional on staff? It may be a good idea to consult him/her for advice for two reasons 1) you're talking to a professional and 2) you can document that you consulted a professional about this. The fact that he is skipping visitations is probably wearing heavily on your children. You'd probably want to talk to their school anyway to make them aware of what's going on.
If you homeschool your kids, I wonder if the court system has a family social worker on board if you can't reach a school counselor. If your ex is skipping supervised visits and continues to do so, the court's going to have to get involved in this anyway sooner or later.
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I am so freaking sick of attorneys. The one I had said it was largely up to him to tell them. Yeah, let's leave it up to the pathological liar to set things straight.
I posted on a legal forum and 3 attorneys responded with different answers. The first one said to tell them, "The judge said this is how things are going to be for a while." I reminded her that my order says not to talk about the court case. Another attorney responded and said that this isn't a question for attorneys- it should be dealt with by a counselor. The third said I should tell them, "Daddy has been told he can't see you guys until he stop doing things that are harmful to himself, like drugs."
I've had the kids in counseling for almost a year, and just recently ended their sessions because I'm going to be starting work full time and won't be able to take them anymore. When I had explained the situation to her- that the kids were seeking answers, but I was afraid of violating the order- she said I could simply explain that there is a "safety concern". I don't know why people think kids would think a one-liner like that is a sufficient explanation for kids. As if they're not going to ask the very obvious follow-up question of "well, what was it?"
I posted on a legal forum and 3 attorneys responded with different answers. The first one said to tell them, "The judge said this is how things are going to be for a while." I reminded her that my order says not to talk about the court case. Another attorney responded and said that this isn't a question for attorneys- it should be dealt with by a counselor. The third said I should tell them, "Daddy has been told he can't see you guys until he stop doing things that are harmful to himself, like drugs."
I've had the kids in counseling for almost a year, and just recently ended their sessions because I'm going to be starting work full time and won't be able to take them anymore. When I had explained the situation to her- that the kids were seeking answers, but I was afraid of violating the order- she said I could simply explain that there is a "safety concern". I don't know why people think kids would think a one-liner like that is a sufficient explanation for kids. As if they're not going to ask the very obvious follow-up question of "well, what was it?"
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In theory I agree that he should be the one to tell them, with you present. From what you’ve shared, though, he’s clearly not ready or is unwilling to work with the situation. It seems kind of dramatic, but maybe a counselor and a lawyer? You could even give him the opportunity to be present, with strict stipulations that he shows up sober and acts appropriate. I agree that saying it is a “safety concern” is not enough information even for a little kid. From meeting people in rehab who had kids, they mostly seemed to agree that honesty was the best route if you don’t want them to find out some other way and get a bunch of misinformation.
Is there anyone close to both of you who could possibly mediate a conversation?
Is there anyone close to both of you who could possibly mediate a conversation?
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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XAH, has not exercised a supervised visitation in coming up on two years. My children are young, elementary aged. The supervised visitation counselor (who was court ordered) advised me if I spoke with the children to keep it simple and short and speak in "I feel" statements if they ask me a direct question about their dad because of the court order but to let the children do the most of the talking unless if something comes up or they say something that you need to address/correct. So, I use examples of things on the news or on shows about how negatively drugs/alcohol can affect people in general as teachable moments and things they should be aware of. The usual bit about paying attention to your surroundings. Not getting in a car with someone who has been drinking or using drugs, not being around people using drugs or drinking. They have asked signs of drug use or being drunk or "how can I tell" about others in general and for the most part has opened up a healthy dialog not just for their dad but other people they may meet in life.
I have seen in my own children that they will sometimes fill in the blanks of why he is gone or where he is. If someone asks them about their dad, I usually hear the response of , "He moved away." or "I don't have one." and I let those go. None of most peoples business anyway! When I heard the youngest say, "When I turned two, I was really fussy, so he moved away." I quickly intervened with a simple affirmation that him leaving was absolutely nothing to do with them and children are never responsible for grown ups, etc. I usually try to end those chats with do you have any questions?
His visitations were sporadic at best anyways but after a few months when I realized he most likely would not be exercising them at all I knew I needed to address that with the children. I was stressing out about what to say, if I said the wrong thing or if I would get into trouble with the court for saying anything at all. I sat the children down and just said, "You know how we used to go to X to see your dad? Well, in the future if we see him it will be at Y's work. Y works at a very cool place with lots of things for kids to do with their parent. And Y is a very nice lady that will be there when you see him and you can trust her. It is very important if we see him at the park or at the store that you stay with me. We cannot run to him or drive anywhere with him. He cannot pick you up from school. (Which is in the court order) The only place we see him would be at Y's." I told them if they had any questions about their dad they could ask me, I may not know all the answers but I would do my best. I then asked if they had any questions and I will never forget but they whispered to each other for a minute and then one said, "Is the easter bunny real?" Over time, they have had more questions and I definitely use the "I feel" statements but try to keep to simple, age appropriate answers. Even though they were little, they knew he had issues. Doesn't change the fact that their sweet hearts love him despite it all.
Sorry this is so long, I wanted to share part of the learning curve I have been on. "I feel" if I were questioned by the court about it now, I can confidently say, he went missing, I have to be honest with the children about that fact and deal with it in a healthy way that allowed us to continue moving forward.
I also looked for books, I ordered the Brown Bottle by Penny Jones off of Amazon, after it arrived, I decided to not read it with the children ... yet at least.
Trust your mom instincts. Hugs friend
I have seen in my own children that they will sometimes fill in the blanks of why he is gone or where he is. If someone asks them about their dad, I usually hear the response of , "He moved away." or "I don't have one." and I let those go. None of most peoples business anyway! When I heard the youngest say, "When I turned two, I was really fussy, so he moved away." I quickly intervened with a simple affirmation that him leaving was absolutely nothing to do with them and children are never responsible for grown ups, etc. I usually try to end those chats with do you have any questions?
His visitations were sporadic at best anyways but after a few months when I realized he most likely would not be exercising them at all I knew I needed to address that with the children. I was stressing out about what to say, if I said the wrong thing or if I would get into trouble with the court for saying anything at all. I sat the children down and just said, "You know how we used to go to X to see your dad? Well, in the future if we see him it will be at Y's work. Y works at a very cool place with lots of things for kids to do with their parent. And Y is a very nice lady that will be there when you see him and you can trust her. It is very important if we see him at the park or at the store that you stay with me. We cannot run to him or drive anywhere with him. He cannot pick you up from school. (Which is in the court order) The only place we see him would be at Y's." I told them if they had any questions about their dad they could ask me, I may not know all the answers but I would do my best. I then asked if they had any questions and I will never forget but they whispered to each other for a minute and then one said, "Is the easter bunny real?" Over time, they have had more questions and I definitely use the "I feel" statements but try to keep to simple, age appropriate answers. Even though they were little, they knew he had issues. Doesn't change the fact that their sweet hearts love him despite it all.
Sorry this is so long, I wanted to share part of the learning curve I have been on. "I feel" if I were questioned by the court about it now, I can confidently say, he went missing, I have to be honest with the children about that fact and deal with it in a healthy way that allowed us to continue moving forward.
I also looked for books, I ordered the Brown Bottle by Penny Jones off of Amazon, after it arrived, I decided to not read it with the children ... yet at least.
Trust your mom instincts. Hugs friend
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 224
Hope that helps, HCD. You've come a long way with your own recovery and I am sure your children pick up on that change. I believe it is normal for them to have questions. I am trying to become more comfortable that I do not have all of the answers for mine and they are still thriving in our new life without the chaos of an addict.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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He really is a piece of work.
Hadn't paid a penny in child support for 9 months. A couple weeks ago I got a check from Department of Child Support Services. He paid $21. Owes over $7,000 (and that's not even including spousal, which is around $9,000). The only reason he paid the measly $21 is so they won't be able to file contempt charges or take away his license.
Then I got a call from DCSS saying that he provided an affidavit saying he had paid me $700 a month cash for September-November. The only proof he is providing is a receipt. There is no year on the receipt. I'm guessing it was from November 2016.
So he's entering false evidence, attempting to mislead the court, obstructing justice...
Moreover, his attorney KNOWS he hasn't paid child support since August. He ADMITTED this in his drug evaluation, dated November 11, 2018.
Sooooo.... his attorney is ALSO offering evidence which he has knowledge to be false.
I told DCSS about the drug eval which states this, and that I have texts from him admitting he hadn't paid, refusing to pay, etc. They told me, "Well, we don't know if the liason would be interested in those. They're probably not admissable evidence." Oh, but a receipt without a year is????? WHY WON'T ANYONE HELP ME?????
I'm really thinking about reporting his attorney. He's taking advantage of a severely mentally ill veteran. He's offering false evidence. He's suppressed evidence in the past.
I'm so sick of court. I don't seem to ever get more than a month's peace.
Hadn't paid a penny in child support for 9 months. A couple weeks ago I got a check from Department of Child Support Services. He paid $21. Owes over $7,000 (and that's not even including spousal, which is around $9,000). The only reason he paid the measly $21 is so they won't be able to file contempt charges or take away his license.
Then I got a call from DCSS saying that he provided an affidavit saying he had paid me $700 a month cash for September-November. The only proof he is providing is a receipt. There is no year on the receipt. I'm guessing it was from November 2016.
So he's entering false evidence, attempting to mislead the court, obstructing justice...
Moreover, his attorney KNOWS he hasn't paid child support since August. He ADMITTED this in his drug evaluation, dated November 11, 2018.
Sooooo.... his attorney is ALSO offering evidence which he has knowledge to be false.
I told DCSS about the drug eval which states this, and that I have texts from him admitting he hadn't paid, refusing to pay, etc. They told me, "Well, we don't know if the liason would be interested in those. They're probably not admissable evidence." Oh, but a receipt without a year is????? WHY WON'T ANYONE HELP ME?????
I'm really thinking about reporting his attorney. He's taking advantage of a severely mentally ill veteran. He's offering false evidence. He's suppressed evidence in the past.
I'm so sick of court. I don't seem to ever get more than a month's peace.
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He sure is a piece of work. My XAH currently pays child support (I have forgiven around $5k that he owed, I just don't want to deal with it). I have 100% accepted that he will implode, and eventually I won't get child support from him. I will be on my own. I try not to depend on it at all. It's wrong, but that is how it is.
Big hugs to you friend.
Big hugs to you friend.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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I couldn't agree more with hopeful4. I cannot depend on receiving child support. I went an entire year with nothing at all. Every 6 months or so I will receive a small payment (most likely to keep his license effective or something). When a person is determined to not pay, I have learned to not be surprised by the links they are willing to go to in order to do just that. I tried at first to go to court on contempt, failure to maintain, income withholding orders, you name it, however, in the end ... it was taking a huge toll on me. I was spending my time, energy and money going to court to have the same result every time ... the judge giving xah another chance. Things are tight every month but my sanity is priceless! My stance on it now is as long as he is in active addiction and not exercising visitation I have no problem not receiving child support and letting the arrears grow. Where I live, the law says six months of no contact or support a person could petition the court to terminate parental rights. Then I learned that getting a judge to do just that is almost impossible because "they would only terminate rights for something really harmful to kids" The legal system is beyond frustrating.
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It is absolutely crazy. Judges seem to love eff ups.
Ugh. Termination is nearly impossible in CA. There would have to be complete abandonment (this would include no phone calls) for one year AND no financial support for one year AND a stepparent ready to adopt the children as his own. Absolutely insane. I've googled this on legal forums. The one that stood out to me the most was a woman whose ex had not been in the children's lives for years, had been in and out of jail, and was literally homeless, pushing a shopping cart and talking to himself downtown. She wanted to terminate and a bunch of attorneys chimed in to chastise her for not supporting the children's relationship with their father. Eff these people and their belief that any father is better than no father. Eff all the research that is done on general populations, and not specifically on children of addicts. Children DO NOT need contact with a parent who is out of their mind on drugs. CPS seems to understand this a little better, but from what I understand they'll only step in if both parents have a problem. If you're a sober parent, tough noogies!
And then today I got a call from my son that he needed hot lunch because his lunch was "rotten". This kid! He's so jealous of the kids that eat cafeteria food. I try to pack healthy lunches with their choice of sandwich, fruit, and string cheese or nuts... nope. He has to throw me under the bus to the ladies in the office who know the drama with their father and probably assume I'm some druggie too, who gives her kids rotten food. I gave in. I signed my kids up for cafeteria food. I can't risk being seen this way. But I'm so frustrated. I try to be a good mom, I try to do the right thing, and it always backfires.
Ugh. Termination is nearly impossible in CA. There would have to be complete abandonment (this would include no phone calls) for one year AND no financial support for one year AND a stepparent ready to adopt the children as his own. Absolutely insane. I've googled this on legal forums. The one that stood out to me the most was a woman whose ex had not been in the children's lives for years, had been in and out of jail, and was literally homeless, pushing a shopping cart and talking to himself downtown. She wanted to terminate and a bunch of attorneys chimed in to chastise her for not supporting the children's relationship with their father. Eff these people and their belief that any father is better than no father. Eff all the research that is done on general populations, and not specifically on children of addicts. Children DO NOT need contact with a parent who is out of their mind on drugs. CPS seems to understand this a little better, but from what I understand they'll only step in if both parents have a problem. If you're a sober parent, tough noogies!
And then today I got a call from my son that he needed hot lunch because his lunch was "rotten". This kid! He's so jealous of the kids that eat cafeteria food. I try to pack healthy lunches with their choice of sandwich, fruit, and string cheese or nuts... nope. He has to throw me under the bus to the ladies in the office who know the drama with their father and probably assume I'm some druggie too, who gives her kids rotten food. I gave in. I signed my kids up for cafeteria food. I can't risk being seen this way. But I'm so frustrated. I try to be a good mom, I try to do the right thing, and it always backfires.
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I believe in second chances. I do not believe in the courts continuing to give an active addict multiple chances. HCD's original question about discussing the elephant in the room so to speak reminded me of just another aspect of how helpless I felt with the legal system because I am the one who is trying to follow the rules. Moving forward for me, if the court or the attorney general's office wants to spend their time, money and energy pursuing charges against him, that's great but I won't hold my breath.
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Termination is next to impossible here also, even with the law as written. When I inquired about it with district attorney, my attorney even a judge in a neighboring county their answer were all the same ... The court doesn't want to terminate parental rights of an absent parent because those children could wind up on government assistance. What in the heck kind of logic is this?! As if children can't wind up on government assistance with an absent parent? The google searches for these types of situations are flawed. Most do not understand the term is not co-parenting when one parent is an addict ... parallel parenting maybe ... Solo more like it.
I laughed so hard about the lunches, so thanks for that! I just went through the same thing with one of mine. Except she was having my pack her lunch and then ordering a tray so I got a notice for "insufficient funds" with the cafeteria. I was mortified!
I laughed so hard about the lunches, so thanks for that! I just went through the same thing with one of mine. Except she was having my pack her lunch and then ordering a tray so I got a notice for "insufficient funds" with the cafeteria. I was mortified!
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