Can alcoholics Love? Do they hate themselves?
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Can alcoholics Love? Do they hate themselves?
Good morning,
These questions arose, this weekend, on a road trip I took to Moab. Lots of time in the car, plenty of time to think.
I'm sure they've probably been answered somewhere on the forum, already. If you have links to those threads, that would be lovely. I don't want to make you all repeat yourselves.
I was just wondering if alcoholics are capable of loving? My AXBF was putting whiskey in his coffee, every morning and 10-20 beers or more, per day. Can they really love if they're always numbing out like that and no time for introspection?
With that in mind, I mentioned to a friend (who admits to being an A) how much he was drinking, and her response was "man, he must really hate himself". But I read on a forum somewhere else, some weeks back, that A's had said that's not why they drank. Thoughts?
I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.
Thank you!
These questions arose, this weekend, on a road trip I took to Moab. Lots of time in the car, plenty of time to think.
I'm sure they've probably been answered somewhere on the forum, already. If you have links to those threads, that would be lovely. I don't want to make you all repeat yourselves.
I was just wondering if alcoholics are capable of loving? My AXBF was putting whiskey in his coffee, every morning and 10-20 beers or more, per day. Can they really love if they're always numbing out like that and no time for introspection?
With that in mind, I mentioned to a friend (who admits to being an A) how much he was drinking, and her response was "man, he must really hate himself". But I read on a forum somewhere else, some weeks back, that A's had said that's not why they drank. Thoughts?
I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.
Thank you!
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I can only say that I believe it depends on the person. No every single A thinks the same. Some are saddened by their choices. Some are narcissistic and think they deserve to do whatever they want, everyone else be damned. None of us thinks the same.
Big hugs. IT's really hard to figure out the why's. One day you will realize it does not matter why. Actions are actions, and that is where the focus has to be.
Big hugs. IT's really hard to figure out the why's. One day you will realize it does not matter why. Actions are actions, and that is where the focus has to be.
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In my experience, my STBXAH probably did love me as much as he was capable of. I do believe that his capacity was severely diminished by his addiction problems, though. It is said that an addict's emotional development basically stops around the age when they start abusing substances. In my ex's case, that was early to mid teens.
My marriage had absolutely zero emotional intimacy. I didn't recognize it for years because I had my own issues from my upbringing.
As far as hating themselves, I can only speak from my own experience. I'm not so sure that my ex hates himself as much as he just doesn't know how to handle life without numbing. Maybe that can lead to self-hatred? IDK. His addiction has led to many years of destructive behaviors and decisions, not the least of which is abandoning his family and having an affair. It's like a vicious cycle.
Just rambling from what I've been through.
My marriage had absolutely zero emotional intimacy. I didn't recognize it for years because I had my own issues from my upbringing.
As far as hating themselves, I can only speak from my own experience. I'm not so sure that my ex hates himself as much as he just doesn't know how to handle life without numbing. Maybe that can lead to self-hatred? IDK. His addiction has led to many years of destructive behaviors and decisions, not the least of which is abandoning his family and having an affair. It's like a vicious cycle.
Just rambling from what I've been through.
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Phoenix......I think the very basic reason that an alcoholic drinks...from day one...is to feel better. And, that works...until they get to the bottom of the glass...
Yes, I do think that alcoholics can feel the emotions of love...in different amounts and degrees...depending on the individual person....but, I see that as different than having the ability to be responsible to that love.....
There are some individuals who are so sociopathic that they are incapable of that kind of human connection.....
I am curious---are you trying to figure out what makes alcoholics "tick"....
Helpful Hint: If you ever are in a relationship where you find yourself thinking...."If I can figure out what makes him tick...I can make him care enough to make this work"......start packing your bags to flee.....whether they are even alcoholic or not!
Yes, I do think that alcoholics can feel the emotions of love...in different amounts and degrees...depending on the individual person....but, I see that as different than having the ability to be responsible to that love.....
There are some individuals who are so sociopathic that they are incapable of that kind of human connection.....
I am curious---are you trying to figure out what makes alcoholics "tick"....
Helpful Hint: If you ever are in a relationship where you find yourself thinking...."If I can figure out what makes him tick...I can make him care enough to make this work"......start packing your bags to flee.....whether they are even alcoholic or not!
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
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There are previous threads about this... can't find them now but will add them if I do find them. I think it depends. Some As drink because they like to party and it gets out control. I think by the time someone is in stage 4 and they risk losing their lives, they probably really hate themselves. My stbxAH wasn't just an alcoholic but was also addicted to drugs. He drugged himself to forget things. He absolutely hated himself. He hated himself enough to hate that I loved him, yet he also wanted to be loved... .
So my short answer is:
It depends.
They don't love themselves. Yet they are selfish.
They can't love you if they can't love themselves.
However, it doesn't matter why they do what they do. It only matters that their actions are destructive and needs to stop... or you need to find a way to protect yourself from it.
If you're living in a valley and a volcano keeps threatening to go off (lots of fumes, lots of smoke... etc...), spending too much time ruminating on the mechanics of the eruption means less time to run like heck.
So my short answer is:
It depends.
They don't love themselves. Yet they are selfish.
They can't love you if they can't love themselves.
However, it doesn't matter why they do what they do. It only matters that their actions are destructive and needs to stop... or you need to find a way to protect yourself from it.
If you're living in a valley and a volcano keeps threatening to go off (lots of fumes, lots of smoke... etc...), spending too much time ruminating on the mechanics of the eruption means less time to run like heck.
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 
I can only say that I believe it depends on the person. No every single A thinks the same. Some are saddened by their choices. Some are narcissistic and think they deserve to do whatever they want, everyone else be damned. None of us thinks the same.
Big hugs. IT's really hard to figure out the why's. One day you will realize it does not matter why. Actions are actions, and that is where the focus has to be.
Big hugs. IT's really hard to figure out the why's. One day you will realize it does not matter why. Actions are actions, and that is where the focus has to be.
We had a massive argument when I was just over it and we broke up and he bought the motel in the mountains with his buddy and rekindled things with his, ex (that was happening while we were still together). Then, when I saw him 9-months later and we got back together, he said all he could remember about that is that he was "drinking a ton". But he never put together that, that's potentially why we broke up. And why we had so many issues.
Thank you for your take on this.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Phoenix......I think the very basic reason that an alcoholic drinks...from day one...is to feel better. And, that works...until they get to the bottom of the glass...
Yes, I do think that alcoholics can feel the emotions of love...in different amounts and degrees...depending on the individual person....but, I see that as different than having the ability to be responsible to that love.....
There are some individuals who are so sociopathic that they are incapable of that kind of human connection.....
I am curious---are you trying to figure out what makes alcoholics "tick"....
Helpful Hint: If you ever are in a relationship where you find yourself thinking...."If I can figure out what makes him tick...I can make him care enough to make this work"......start packing your bags to flee.....whether they are even alcoholic or not!
Yes, I do think that alcoholics can feel the emotions of love...in different amounts and degrees...depending on the individual person....but, I see that as different than having the ability to be responsible to that love.....
There are some individuals who are so sociopathic that they are incapable of that kind of human connection.....
I am curious---are you trying to figure out what makes alcoholics "tick"....
Helpful Hint: If you ever are in a relationship where you find yourself thinking...."If I can figure out what makes him tick...I can make him care enough to make this work"......start packing your bags to flee.....whether they are even alcoholic or not!
I guess, all that time to think, I just started to miss the old AXBF I know he can be. It's so hard to think that I miss him, but I sincerely think he doesn't miss me, at all. He'll just replace me. It's what he does.
One of his friends even said, I don't think he misses any of the women he dates when they're gone.
When we were dating, and he had told me he was going to Costa Rica with the lawyer/belly dancer, we were going to have a "big talk". I got out of EMT class earlier than expected. I called him, as we had planned, and he answered and said "You're calling already? I thought I was going to have more time to drink before we talked" Ouch. What does that mean?!
The conversation ended up going better than expected. I was super nice through all of that. I probably shouldn't have been. I should've told him to take a hike with that chick, right then and there.
So, I am sitting here thinking, what were all the long and deep talks about building a new relationship, then? They happened in the same conversations when I told him it was my birthday, coming up...he forgot that, so I'm guessing he forgot all of the rest, as well.
I am just sitting here thinking, was any of it real? Did he even care? Was it just a complete joke to him and he is sitting back laughing at all of it? It felt like I was just his favorite person to destroy. And now he sails off into the sunset owning his motels in the mountains and Costa Rica, no consequences and I am forgotten. It's a lot to take in.
Struggling. Thanks for listening.
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It's my experience that a person should always look at actions, words mean nothing, talk is cheap.
An A will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
An A will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz
He drugged himself to forget things. He absolutely hated himself. He hated himself enough to hate that I loved him, yet he also wanted to be loved... .
If you're living in a valley and a volcano keeps threatening to go off (lots of fumes, lots of smoke... etc...), spending too much time ruminating on the mechanics of the eruption means less time to run like heck.
If you're living in a valley and a volcano keeps threatening to go off (lots of fumes, lots of smoke... etc...), spending too much time ruminating on the mechanics of the eruption means less time to run like heck.
And, you're right. Running like heck is all I need to be doing. I did tell him, when he tried to text me, last week "Not mean or angry, just very matter of fact...I don't care to be in touch, right now. Maybe further down the road, but not at this point".
So, the door is closed, it's just the, "oh my gosh, what was I just put through. And worse, what did I ALLOW myself to be put through". Ugh.
I appreciate your take on it.
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
It's my experience that a person should always look at actions, words mean nothing, talk is cheap.
An A will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
An A will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
You're right, he has shown me who he is. Maybe it's better not to look back. Every time I do, realize something terrible or put 2 and 2 together and it makes me feel like garbage.
Thank you, for the response.
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I think there is definitely that time of shock. You just went through trauma and have to sit back and figure out what happened.
I have family in law enforcement. They do debriefings with the people involved in trauma after a big event. This means they all sit down and talk about the events, and what they will need for follow up care (if any is needed).
I always think that we all need this when we are moving forward. Sort of a debriefing of what happened, figure it out as best we can, and what do we need to move forward.
I have family in law enforcement. They do debriefings with the people involved in trauma after a big event. This means they all sit down and talk about the events, and what they will need for follow up care (if any is needed).
I always think that we all need this when we are moving forward. Sort of a debriefing of what happened, figure it out as best we can, and what do we need to move forward.
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Phoenix....it is natural to ruminate, at this stage of grieving.....just don't let it dominate you....because you can't turn back history....
You know that YOUr feelings were real. That is what is important....
And you didn't know, at the time, that you were casting your seed upon stone...that you were casting your pearls before swine.....
Don't form relationships based on Potential....base them on what is....
Until a person puts their potential into action..."potential" is just an abstract concept that can lead you into the land of Oz......
You know that YOUr feelings were real. That is what is important....
And you didn't know, at the time, that you were casting your seed upon stone...that you were casting your pearls before swine.....
Don't form relationships based on Potential....base them on what is....
Until a person puts their potential into action..."potential" is just an abstract concept that can lead you into the land of Oz......
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Phoenix....it is natural to ruminate, at this stage of grieving.....just don't let it dominate you....because you can turn back history....
You know that YOUr feelings were real. That is what is important....
And you didn't know, at the time, that you were casting your seed upon stone...that you were casting your pearls before swine.....
Don't form relationships based on Potential....base them on what is....
Until a person puts their potential into action..."potential" is just an abstract concept that can lead you into the land of Oz......
You know that YOUr feelings were real. That is what is important....
And you didn't know, at the time, that you were casting your seed upon stone...that you were casting your pearls before swine.....
Don't form relationships based on Potential....base them on what is....
Until a person puts their potential into action..."potential" is just an abstract concept that can lead you into the land of Oz......
The land of Oz....it was definitely crazy making and he was very much the Tin Man...heartless. :/
Let's not do that, again.
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When we don't know something, we don' t know what we don't know....
That is o.k. We are all ignorant of something. The thing is not to condem ourselves for what we didn't know....but, rather, do better, because we , now, know better....
Forgive yourself for what you didn't know.....
Doesn't it strike you as ironic that we can be soo critical of ourselves...yet, give them so much leeway for what they Do?
We treat others better than ourselves......that is a sure sign of low self-esteem....
***It is not our fault that we have low self esteem....after all, no baby starts out in the world with low self esteem....the world teaches us that, along the way...
That is o.k. We are all ignorant of something. The thing is not to condem ourselves for what we didn't know....but, rather, do better, because we , now, know better....
Forgive yourself for what you didn't know.....
Doesn't it strike you as ironic that we can be soo critical of ourselves...yet, give them so much leeway for what they Do?
We treat others better than ourselves......that is a sure sign of low self-esteem....
***It is not our fault that we have low self esteem....after all, no baby starts out in the world with low self esteem....the world teaches us that, along the way...
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Doesn't it strike you as ironic that we can be soo critical of ourselves...yet, give them so much leeway for what they Do?
We treat others better than ourselves......that is a sure sign of low self-esteem....
***It is not our fault that we have low self esteem....after all, no baby starts out in the world with low self esteem....the world teaches us that, along the way...
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I am an alcoholic. Love has never been a foreign concept to me and even when drinking, I was able to love. I drank because life did not meet my expectations.
Love, by itself, could not trump that.
The solution for me was multifaceted. It could not be found and achieved through only a single facet of my makeup. It took a complex retooling.
Love, by itself, could not trump that.
The solution for me was multifaceted. It could not be found and achieved through only a single facet of my makeup. It took a complex retooling.
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz
There are previous threads about this... can't find them now but will add them if I do find them. I think it depends.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...nt-enough.html (Why Love isn't enough)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...able-love.html (Why The Alcoholic Is Incapable of Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...addiction.html (Intervention for the Codependent: Love Addiction)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...bout-love.html (Let's Talk About Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...lthy-love.html (Article about Toxic Love vs Healthy Love)
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Originally Posted by nez
I am an alcoholic. Love has never been a foreign concept to me and even when drinking, I was able to love. I drank because life did not meet my expectations.
Love, by itself, could not trump that.
The solution for me was multifaceted. It could not be found and achieved through only a single facet of my makeup. It took a complex retooling.
Love, by itself, could not trump that.
The solution for me was multifaceted. It could not be found and achieved through only a single facet of my makeup. It took a complex retooling.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Here you go..... I'm sure there are more but this is a good start:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...nt-enough.html (Why Love isn't enough)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...able-love.html (Why The Alcoholic Is Incapable of Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...addiction.html (Intervention for the Codependent: Love Addiction)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...bout-love.html (Let's Talk About Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...lthy-love.html (Article about Toxic Love vs Healthy Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...nt-enough.html (Why Love isn't enough)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...able-love.html (Why The Alcoholic Is Incapable of Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...addiction.html (Intervention for the Codependent: Love Addiction)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...bout-love.html (Let's Talk About Love)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...lthy-love.html (Article about Toxic Love vs Healthy Love)
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
it's my experience that a person should always look at actions, words mean nothing, talk is cheap.
An a will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
An a will lie, lie, deny, lie. They will make excuses, they will behave in ways that are terrible. Many of them do this while they drink, and while they don't.
He has shown you who he is, believe it.
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