OT - Does he really even care?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
OT - Does he really even care?
There was an in law party. My H and children went. I decided not to go and now I'm sad and miserable and they're being social. I cant invision myself having a non two face, good time with these people. We didn't even discuss it.
I'm withdrawing as much as he is. I'm not putting in any effort to us. He hasn't in a long time. I was discussing with my aunt the relationship and her stance was as long as he's not violent than it's not a bad thing to have no relationship yet married. (She's never been married. ) Yes, but no. I can't talk to him. His family makes no effort. Yet, I wish, when he found out I wasn't going he said something. We talked about superficial things about the party but never about me not going. I guess part of me wanted him to say, "Let's work on this." or " It's important to me." or "What's important to you?"
I'm withdrawing as much as he is. I'm not putting in any effort to us. He hasn't in a long time. I was discussing with my aunt the relationship and her stance was as long as he's not violent than it's not a bad thing to have no relationship yet married. (She's never been married. ) Yes, but no. I can't talk to him. His family makes no effort. Yet, I wish, when he found out I wasn't going he said something. We talked about superficial things about the party but never about me not going. I guess part of me wanted him to say, "Let's work on this." or " It's important to me." or "What's important to you?"
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
hearthealth...seems like you have been wanting him to care for a long time, now....and, that must really sting....
I hope that you will go to the thread that I made today..."Not at all OT"......it is about women making change......
I was raised in a culture where, according to my m other's generation....as long as a man brought home a decent paycheck...and didn't beat or cheat on the wife, then, that was all that mattered.....for people who believe in that---there is no changing their minds....
As it turns out...I "shook that tree", pretty hard.....
I hope that you will go to the thread that I made today..."Not at all OT"......it is about women making change......
I was raised in a culture where, according to my m other's generation....as long as a man brought home a decent paycheck...and didn't beat or cheat on the wife, then, that was all that mattered.....for people who believe in that---there is no changing their minds....
As it turns out...I "shook that tree", pretty hard.....
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
HH, has he ever been expressive towards you? Are you wishing he was someone he simply isn’t?
In my pre-recovery relationships I set myself up for so much resentment and disappointment because I refused to accept the people I was with for who they actually were—they were not bad people, but neither were they the kind of partner I wanted.
In my pre-recovery relationships I set myself up for so much resentment and disappointment because I refused to accept the people I was with for who they actually were—they were not bad people, but neither were they the kind of partner I wanted.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Dandylion, maybe that's it with him and his family? He does brings home the paycheck and I've never been hit so that's all that should matter?
Sparklekitty, He is expressive on his terms
When he has something to gain from it. I guess a deep connection isn't important to him as long as I take care of the household and don't get in his way.
Reality, I don't think this will ever make me happy. I am accomplishing my hobbies while they are gone but it's such a cold lifestyle. It spas the joy. The loneliness when we are together. The pity party when we are apart.
Sparklekitty, He is expressive on his terms
When he has something to gain from it. I guess a deep connection isn't important to him as long as I take care of the household and don't get in his way.
Reality, I don't think this will ever make me happy. I am accomplishing my hobbies while they are gone but it's such a cold lifestyle. It spas the joy. The loneliness when we are together. The pity party when we are apart.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
hearthealth.....I think with those who have been raised with that belief...especially, the generations of women before us....there often wasn't any choice...if the woman didn't have some kind of independent means....staying in such marriages was usually a matter of sheer survival for women. Marriage gave them their "place" in the world. They really didn't have much reproductive choice, either.
I am quite sure that many of those women were not happy in their marriages....but, they tried as hard as they could to just accept their "fate".
Even so...there were some women who did balk at it....as divorce has been legal for a very long time....
But, fortunately, today, women have more choice over their lives....
We are not just machines....we all want to see "seen" and "heard"....want to know that we matter....the authentic self inside of us craves expression...and, when our environment and/or the people in it obstruct that for us....it brings enormous stress and unhappiness...even to the point of illness....that kind of stress is terribly destructive.....
Hearthealth...I hope that you will listen carefully to the words of the song, in my thread, that I suggested for you....
One of the lines is---"You are more than a wife"....
I so wish that you had more support, in your life, of people that understood exactly how you feel....and there are plenty, out there! I feel like that would m ake a world of difference for you....
I am quite sure that many of those women were not happy in their marriages....but, they tried as hard as they could to just accept their "fate".
Even so...there were some women who did balk at it....as divorce has been legal for a very long time....
But, fortunately, today, women have more choice over their lives....
We are not just machines....we all want to see "seen" and "heard"....want to know that we matter....the authentic self inside of us craves expression...and, when our environment and/or the people in it obstruct that for us....it brings enormous stress and unhappiness...even to the point of illness....that kind of stress is terribly destructive.....
Hearthealth...I hope that you will listen carefully to the words of the song, in my thread, that I suggested for you....
One of the lines is---"You are more than a wife"....
I so wish that you had more support, in your life, of people that understood exactly how you feel....and there are plenty, out there! I feel like that would m ake a world of difference for you....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
I listened to the song but to be frank I didn't understand the lyrics. I had to check that separately. I feel I am not even the wife but 'only' a mother. I am a part of that generation that doesn't want to be divorced. I still wants to be happy. I can't have it both ways.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
what IS it about the term divorced that causes you to balk? you are obviously miserable in this marriage.....your husband is not a full fledged partner, takes you for granted, has been abusive and just downright mean to you and the kids. what is it that wants you to cleave your oxen to him....or however its said?
i never cottoned to the term "yoked" - since that is two oxen, manually forced together in a contraption, to plow a field. if that is marriage? yeah no thanks.
i never cottoned to the term "yoked" - since that is two oxen, manually forced together in a contraption, to plow a field. if that is marriage? yeah no thanks.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
I've been also reading these last couple of hours about narcissistic effects. It is resonating with my relationship.
When I challenge the status quo. I struggle back to...I should have just gone and put on a plastered smile. Easier for me to avoid the confrontation though I give up a little piece of my needs. How much does a person give up before they no longer really live but just exists in a marriage?
When I challenge the status quo. I struggle back to...I should have just gone and put on a plastered smile. Easier for me to avoid the confrontation though I give up a little piece of my needs. How much does a person give up before they no longer really live but just exists in a marriage?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by hearthealth 
How much does a person give up before they no longer really live but just exists in a marriage?
What I can tell you is that I have not given up *any* of myself in my marriage. The way you live is not the way it has to be.
Also, I was divorced several years before I met my current husband, and I was happier on my own than I ever was married to the wrong person.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
I have to ask: What are YOU getting out of this other than a ring on your finger and a 'title' of married? If my wife was as unhappy as you sound..i'd rather her go. I say this not to be mean,but what's the point of it all? I didn't always think like this and did stuff 'by the book' of how I was raised(I'm early 40's) and was miserable way longer than I needed to be..Just sayin'.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Sometimes, I get the impression you are playing games to get your husbands attention and when he doesn't play it the way you want, you get hurt. Trust me, addicts/alcoholics don't just know how to play the game, they know how to win!!
If we all said....no he doesn't really care....then what??
If we all said....no he doesn't really care....then what??
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
hearthealth.......I certainly do get it that you are under tremendous cultural pressures....and, I perceive that those around you are very anti-divorce.....that can be an enormous pressure....most of us are most comfortable when we are in accordance to our cultural norms and customs.
And, it takes a bit of "Shaking The Tree"....to go against that grain, when we need/.have to....
When you say that you are of "the generation that doesn't want to be divorced"......well, I would venture to say that all of us who have been or are married don't WANT to be divorced....why would we have gotten married, in the first place if we wanted to be divorced? That just wouldn't make a lot of sense, to me.....
I never wanted to be divorced, either....and, I wasn't raised in a culture that went for divorce (except for beating or cheating).....I wanted to be married and assumed that it would last forever, just the way I dreamed.....I loved the being married part...of the good parts that come with it...I loved being a mother to my 3 kids and all that came with that....it looked pretty perfect, in most respects.....except for one crucial aspect....that my husband was very self-centered and rigid and narcissistic...very critical and controlling....He never laid a hand on me nor yelled or called me names....but, it slowly, over the course of 6yrs. became more and more like an invisible prison....where my inward self...at the soul level was being squeezed to death ....I was no longer a person...but, an interchangable part. In fact, when I filed for divorce...I can remember telling him...
."You will be happier without me, also. You can hire a maid and housekeeper....they are much cheaper than a wife and much more efficient. They will demand nothing from you. They will need nothing from you except payment of money and they will never argue with you about anything. For sex...or female companionship...you can date women or pay for women...or whatever you so choose.".....
I chose to get divorced ...not because I liked the idea of getting divorced, per se...but, because I had to do it to save the emotional life of myself and m y children.....
Sometimes we just get to the point that we have to do what we know , deep inside, that we have to do...and, I had reached that point and I knew it....
To this day, I have never regretted that decision. That was a very long time ago...and, I hear from the grapevine that he has not changed one molecule.
I am not bitter against marriage or anti-marriage. I remarried, later to a wonderful and very loving man. One who cared and valued me and my children and dogs and cats...lol....
It is not about the "married" or "not married" or "divorced"....it is about being able to live in a relationship where we can thrive and experience the joy of being alive....not just existing....
And, it takes a bit of "Shaking The Tree"....to go against that grain, when we need/.have to....
When you say that you are of "the generation that doesn't want to be divorced"......well, I would venture to say that all of us who have been or are married don't WANT to be divorced....why would we have gotten married, in the first place if we wanted to be divorced? That just wouldn't make a lot of sense, to me.....
I never wanted to be divorced, either....and, I wasn't raised in a culture that went for divorce (except for beating or cheating).....I wanted to be married and assumed that it would last forever, just the way I dreamed.....I loved the being married part...of the good parts that come with it...I loved being a mother to my 3 kids and all that came with that....it looked pretty perfect, in most respects.....except for one crucial aspect....that my husband was very self-centered and rigid and narcissistic...very critical and controlling....He never laid a hand on me nor yelled or called me names....but, it slowly, over the course of 6yrs. became more and more like an invisible prison....where my inward self...at the soul level was being squeezed to death ....I was no longer a person...but, an interchangable part. In fact, when I filed for divorce...I can remember telling him...
."You will be happier without me, also. You can hire a maid and housekeeper....they are much cheaper than a wife and much more efficient. They will demand nothing from you. They will need nothing from you except payment of money and they will never argue with you about anything. For sex...or female companionship...you can date women or pay for women...or whatever you so choose.".....
I chose to get divorced ...not because I liked the idea of getting divorced, per se...but, because I had to do it to save the emotional life of myself and m y children.....
Sometimes we just get to the point that we have to do what we know , deep inside, that we have to do...and, I had reached that point and I knew it....
To this day, I have never regretted that decision. That was a very long time ago...and, I hear from the grapevine that he has not changed one molecule.
I am not bitter against marriage or anti-marriage. I remarried, later to a wonderful and very loving man. One who cared and valued me and my children and dogs and cats...lol....
It is not about the "married" or "not married" or "divorced"....it is about being able to live in a relationship where we can thrive and experience the joy of being alive....not just existing....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
HH, you are the past the point of taking any action, I can hear it in your tone and in your writing. You have given up. You feel you have been left to your lot and there you will stay. I don't believe you actually have any hope left.
You might have read stories in the alcoholics section of those that have gone to AA when they had no hope left of recovery. The big book tells them, do what we do and you can have what we have and they blindly jump in and follow the 12 steps and in a tried and true way, many recover.
You can have hope again but you are going to have to take that leap of faith and listen to the people here who have been showing you the way.
From your replies it's hard to see if you actually read what they say to you and if you do it isn't truly registering that I can see.
There is hope. Use the tools and resources everyone has been talking to you about for so long.
You might have read stories in the alcoholics section of those that have gone to AA when they had no hope left of recovery. The big book tells them, do what we do and you can have what we have and they blindly jump in and follow the 12 steps and in a tried and true way, many recover.
You can have hope again but you are going to have to take that leap of faith and listen to the people here who have been showing you the way.
From your replies it's hard to see if you actually read what they say to you and if you do it isn't truly registering that I can see.
There is hope. Use the tools and resources everyone has been talking to you about for so long.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
hearthealth.....I know that you do feel held down by financial responsibility, because you have talked about it before and you are planning to take on more hours, at work.
If my memory serves me well...you have a hard time getting out of the house without him becoming suspicious. But, you did say that you can "fudge" the time, here and there, while doing usual activities...shopping, etc....
As I have suggested before, I believe it is so important for you to contact the dom estic abus organization...because support and help is essential, for you. You can have, say...30minute conversations, on the phone with them several times a week....it is totally confidential and you have nothing to lose. You don't have to do anything you don't want to , or before you are ready.....
They have contacts at their disposal that you may not even have thought of...and, you need to find out what assistance that you qualify for....
You need legal counsel, for one thing....from someone w ho is experienced with your kind of situation....
And, you need contact with someone who can actually help you with counseling services and helping you to make your plans.....
Please do not try to do this alone....
Every little baby step is progress...
Just knowing that there are real, live people who are there to help and protect you can be such a relief, in itself. Also knowing your rights and the actual realities of the situation, can help so much,,,,,the more you know and the better plans that you have, the more confident, and less fearful, you will be....
By the way...he is just as responsible for the bills as you are...and he is legally required to support his family....these are your rights....
If my memory serves me well...you have a hard time getting out of the house without him becoming suspicious. But, you did say that you can "fudge" the time, here and there, while doing usual activities...shopping, etc....
As I have suggested before, I believe it is so important for you to contact the dom estic abus organization...because support and help is essential, for you. You can have, say...30minute conversations, on the phone with them several times a week....it is totally confidential and you have nothing to lose. You don't have to do anything you don't want to , or before you are ready.....
They have contacts at their disposal that you may not even have thought of...and, you need to find out what assistance that you qualify for....
You need legal counsel, for one thing....from someone w ho is experienced with your kind of situation....
And, you need contact with someone who can actually help you with counseling services and helping you to make your plans.....
Please do not try to do this alone....
Every little baby step is progress...
Just knowing that there are real, live people who are there to help and protect you can be such a relief, in itself. Also knowing your rights and the actual realities of the situation, can help so much,,,,,the more you know and the better plans that you have, the more confident, and less fearful, you will be....
By the way...he is just as responsible for the bills as you are...and he is legally required to support his family....these are your rights....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by hearthealth
I am a part of that generation that doesn't want to be divorced.
I had made the decision to divorce my husband before he told me he was terminally ill. I never told him, and he died about six weeks later. On a widows' forum, someone asked, "What would surprise your late spouse the most, if he or she could see you today?" I wrote, "He'd be surprised how much I miss him." I do. And I'm with someone new, now, but there were things about Late Husband I do miss. The husband I married started disappearing long before he died, though.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I was first in my HUGE family to be divorced. The only one, ever. I also come from a generation that you don't divorce. However, I am not willing to let myself be miserable for the rest of my life. Things got so bad that well, I divorced. Guess what, two other women in my extended family divorced after me. They both told me they thought they had no right to divorce because we come from a generation that does not divorce LOL. We are all collectively much happier people.
I understand that you have a financial tie to him. I get that. I also understand that sometimes you have to just start over, with not much to start with. If you cannot do that, maybe it's time you just accept that you are staying ONLY due to finances, and that you expect NOTHING from him. When you expect nothing, and you get nothing, you are not disappointed.
I kindly say that I hear in your threads that you wish he were a different person. We all wish that of the qualifiers in our lives, married or not. However, they are who they are. Put all that work into YOU. What can you do to thrive and make yourself happy?
For about 2 years before I divorced, I had a sort of epiphany. I was so tired of staying home, worrying, being mentally used and abused. No relationship, no nothing. So, even though I was still married and we still lived together, I had my own life. I went out with friends to do things. Went traveling with my kids. The things I enjoyed. If he wanted to come, AND PARTICIPATE (not just walk around with us miserable), he was invited. If not, he could stay home. And 99.9% of the time, he did just that. That's ok. I had fun. I created memories. I got a life.
You deserve to get a life as well my friend. I don't say any of this to hurt you. I just see that you seem alone, and you seem very unhappy. You deserve more, and you can give yourself more. You just have to choose to do it.
I understand that you have a financial tie to him. I get that. I also understand that sometimes you have to just start over, with not much to start with. If you cannot do that, maybe it's time you just accept that you are staying ONLY due to finances, and that you expect NOTHING from him. When you expect nothing, and you get nothing, you are not disappointed.
I kindly say that I hear in your threads that you wish he were a different person. We all wish that of the qualifiers in our lives, married or not. However, they are who they are. Put all that work into YOU. What can you do to thrive and make yourself happy?
For about 2 years before I divorced, I had a sort of epiphany. I was so tired of staying home, worrying, being mentally used and abused. No relationship, no nothing. So, even though I was still married and we still lived together, I had my own life. I went out with friends to do things. Went traveling with my kids. The things I enjoyed. If he wanted to come, AND PARTICIPATE (not just walk around with us miserable), he was invited. If not, he could stay home. And 99.9% of the time, he did just that. That's ok. I had fun. I created memories. I got a life.
You deserve to get a life as well my friend. I don't say any of this to hurt you. I just see that you seem alone, and you seem very unhappy. You deserve more, and you can give yourself more. You just have to choose to do it.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
