KatieNoPockets

My husband is in treatment now. We dated and married during 7 years of sobriety. He relapsed after our marriage - about 6 months ago. I have had people just assume that because I married an alcoholic that somehow that makes me a codependent person. Frankly, I feel I am not in denial, I am a fairly self-aware person, and I score a near 0 on every codependent profiling quiz I come across. I am getting frustrated when people use that title and have no idea who I am.

I don't identify with the characteristics of codependency. I believe that I was uneducated on the disease, I didn't have a plan if he were to start drinking again - what boundaries I needed to set in advance. I have made errors in judgment along the way before I kicked him out, but I did take a stand, get support/therapy for myself, and I now surely have clear boundaries.

I am curious to hear from people who also DO NOT identify as codependent, who may have a perspective on this. I am sure people will post who believe this a form of denial - but I do believe that I am not lacking self-awareness, I am not looking for validation or praise, I am looking for similar experiences to understand more about how other people feel about labeling, personal responsibility. I want to understand how to find a support system that isn't soley focused on managing one's codependent nature.

dandylion

KNP....I, for one, do not believe that everyone who is married to an alcoholic is, necessarily, "co-dependent".
I tend not to use the term, very often, in any case.

LLLisa

I'm not a fan of quizzes. The fact that you score 0 on a "co-dependent quiz" doesn't really mean much. Got a link to these quizzes? I'd like to have a go!

Anyway, you've found your way here to us. How do you think we can support you?

There's lots to read here. I found that reading other's experiences helped me to see that whether or not I was co-dependent, there were many, many things I needed to learn. There were many, many things I needed to change.

Kudos to you for only having put up with your alcoholic husband for 6 months of marriage. Well done for recognizing your errors in judgement during those 6 months. Keep reading and you'll surely find something here which will be useful to you.

hearthealth

I think there's a range of codependency from 0 to 10. I think they are talking more about themselves and their experience and knowledge. They only know codependent spouses of alcoholics.

TheFool

I identify with you. I feel really strongly I’m not co dependant-I was brought up to be kind. I didn’t know my boyfriend was an alcoholic when I started seeing him years ago. We’ve never lived together. I didn’t know how bad it was until he had a couple of over the top drinking bouts I witnessss. And who hasn’t had one of those occasionally, after a shock etc? I still didn’t really twig for months. I stayed because he was suddenly so sad. Because I’m his best friend. Because I care. I find the remedy for suggested codependency difficult because stepping back suggests you care less. I’d hang in there with a friend, I don’t believe that makes me co dependant but empathic and dependable. I don’t like labels. I dislike being thought if as codependent as much as I dislike being told he’s powerless over alcohol and ‘ill’ Ges not I’ll. he has poor impulse control and has developed a very bad habit. The
codependency rag suggests to me I’m helpless in my responses to him. I choose to support him although it’s crazy making and confusing as I think it’s the right thing to do and I’d like someone to stick by me if I was struggling. X

dandylion

The definition of co-dependency that has been most helpful, for me, is this:
"Co-dependency is not as much about the relationship with another person...as it is about the LACK of relationship with the self"

Blueskies18

I used to think I wasn't codependent because it's not a medical psychiatric term and there isn't really a clear definition. But right now I think I've been codependant AF!
I have never heard anyone tell me in real life that I have codependancy issues.

About three years ago a councellor started to tell me the story about the frogs in the pots of boiling water. (Take 2 frogs, put each one into a pot. One has warm water that slowly coming to a boil, one is in bubbling boiling water, which one survives?)
I didnt even let her finish their story. I gave her the correct answer quickly. Over the next two years, I told People about what a bad councellor she was, she didn't even know about the pot of boiling water I jumped into in my twenties, I'm not a frog!!! (Sometimes I'd cry when I said this)

Then I thought," why am I still talking about this? Why is this bothering me?"
Because there was truth. Truth that I just needed to sort out on my own. Defending myself kept me from the truth. And if there wasn't any truth, I probably wouldn't still be annoyed about it two years later.

I don't think you need to label yourself, and I don't know you. I think good questions to ask yourself is, "why do I care what they are saying?" Or "why do I spend time with people who hurt my feelings"

(If those people are repeating themselves in an effort to change you it sounds like they might have some codependancy issues)

tomsteve

i scored 127 on an IQ test and do dumb real good.

Eauchiche

I had two different clergymen suggest to me that I could repent from my dysfunctional, addictive life, and OH BOY, did I HATE them!!!!"

FireSprite

I don't believe that every partner/loved one/friend of an addict automatically qualifies as a Codie. I also think a person can start out perfectly healthy & end up Codie as a result of the insanity of dealing with an addict. ESPECIALLY as a result of their ignorance because they often attempt all the classic-fail ways of trying to manipulate their loved one's addiction instead of seeking education.... it's a merry-go-round. You can't seek education about something that you don't recognize happening. So you employ various tactics of control & manipulation (emotional, financial) which turn into habits over time that you don't see for what they are. Depending on how long this dynamic continues & progresses, those codie traits can start to really take over a personality.

My Codependency shows differently in my relationships - it's far easier for me to identify & back away from that behavior with RAH than it is with my FOO because those are the blurrier, more difficult boundary lines for me.

I AM codependent in terms of my FOO (it has been central in those relationships) but I ACT codependently with my RAH at times (it is situational/reactive) because I have always seen myself as fully independent from him on some level, no matter how much I love him..... but again, over enough time that was hard to separate because my codie side was growing in reaction to his bad behaviors. I don't have such an easy separation of Self with my FOO. (I'm getting there, trust me, especially THIS week )

I think our codependent nature, or lack thereof, has more to do with who we are in relation to everyone around us compared to Self & not just about managing ourselves around addiction. Definitely makes sense that a person codependent from early in life is more likely to seek out relationships with those that will utilize their codie skills because it feels "right" & "normal" to them, or that we slide more easily into that role in all kinds of relationships in our lives.

__________________

healthyagain

I come from a culture that does not have the concept of codependency. The word does not even exist in the language. However, this does not mean that we do not have codependents and codependent behaviors, and alcoholic marriages, and the dysfunction they carry, and then again, nothing is ever black an white. I consider myself to be a "codependent in transition," and I strongly believe that many of the issues were part of my youth and emotional immaturity. I also knew nothing about the complexity of alcoholic relationship and what kind of role I played as an enabler in my ex husbands life. I do not think that codependency is a label that one is doomed to carry for the rest of life. But it is great to be aware of codependent tendencies and recognize codependent behaviors in oneself. I just wish I knew some things when I was in my early 20s.

Sasha1972

For me, the only definition of "codependency" that worked was "codependency is when you believe that your ability to be happy is dependent on someone else behaving well". Codependency as constant enabling and being "addicted" to trying to help the unhelpable didn't resonate with me. For me, recovery from codependency means working on separating my own serenity and well-being from whatever insanity the alcoholic in question is engaging in at the time. It's a long hard process because we were together for 25 years - my whole adult life until the point of separation - and so my identity, my "go-to" emotional responses to situations and my reflexive behaviors were all forged in the context of addiction and mental illness, even though for many years I didn't realize the depths of the addiction and mental illness.

I realized I was making progress on recovery when it became clear to me that I don't really care if he stops drinking or not, even though it's probably going to kill him - I just want him to leave me and Kid alone so we can get on with the good things in our lives.

hopeful4

My counselor banned the word, and I fully support that. He said we need to focus on individual actions, not catch phrases for them. I loved hearing that because even though I am/was codependent, finding that out did not help me. Learning to change my own behaviors to realize I cannot control anyone else's actions except mine, and I can only control my own reactions is what helped. Learning the actual actions and behaviors behind that is what changed (and continues to change) my life.

HardLessons

I have to be one of the worst & dumbest co-dependents of all time.

While I was still in my relationship with my addict, I first read about the concept of co-dependency. What I read fit me like a glove.

After reading a lot about the subject & thinking about it in terms of my relationship with her, I told her what I now knew. She rolled her eyes and said "your a f-ing idiot". Needless to say I never brought it up again to her.

With her I think I would always be nothing but a raging co-dependent.

With anyone else I probably display co-dependent tendencies but now that I am aware, I keep it under control.

Bernadette

I don't get hung up on words or labels - I choose action!

Whether it is from this forum, or an AlAnon meeting, or a book (titled, whatever "Codie No More" or "I am Not a Codie") or other sources, I just take what I can use and leave the rest.

I've been through enough life experience and various modes of therapy that I also (after I cool down) take a look at descriptions people may toss out about me and examine why it made me defensive.

If someone casually says "Wow B you are a control freak," or "B you're being negative," or whatever, and I respond in my mind angrily F** you I AM NOT!! I take a minute to
A. consider the source, is the specific person trying to hurt me or do they have a personal agenda?
B. to look in the mirror and see if there is any truth to the statement and if examining that will help me in any way?

I am on my own journey in this life. It has helped me to know what my goals are. What kind of person do I want to be? How can I help myself become that person? If people around me label me in ways I bristle at and that are not valid then I don't have to listen to them or accept their labeling. I know who to trust, I recognize allies as I walk my path.

Evaluating advice and self-progress is on me, and if I need help evaluating I go to my steady resources (therapy, trusted friends etc.).

Peace,
B.

dandylion

As always, one is advised to take what works and leave the rest......

Seren

Hello katie, and Welcome.

Personally, I do not believe that everyone who is in a romantic relationship with or has a family member who is addicted must be codependent. Just as there are many paths for an addict/alcoholic to follow in order to achieve sobriety and peace, so, too, are there many paths and choices for those of us who love someone who is addicted.

Some family members have only used the support that SR provides, some have found therapy to be the most useful, and some have relied on group support. Learn all you can about addiction, because it certainly does help, and decide what is best for you.

Clover71

I'm right there with DL on this one

aliciagr

I can relate and have experienced the same type of assumptions.
I met my husband in college where he was a bit of a party boy. We married after grad school when those patterns of behavior were long extinct. I grew up without dysfunction in my home, and I feel learned to develop a strong sense of self which was supported by personal values, beliefs. I feel like Ive always had a sense of boundaries in regards to how I should be treated, and also how I interact and treat others - from friends, coworkers, romantic interests. Most of this was fostered by my parents as I grew up. But there were also learning lessons with friends who wanted too much from me and I learned to say no, if that's the only reason you want to be my friend then we are not really friends and should part ways.. And in college with regards to understanding everyone is responsible for their own life, embrace diversity and how others choose to live, but stay firm in my own beliefs.

I have always had my own identity apart from my husband but will say Ive always considered him my best friend, and one of my biggest supporters as I tried to work towards my goals in life. I think he would say the same of me.. I say this because what we had felt very healthy and fulfilling to me.

But when he began to binge on alcohol and drugs a couple of years ago it was not something that I was emotionally prepared for, and I was also not truly educated on what was happening to his mind and body. I also made mistakes, suffered confusion, began to focus more on his immediate medical issue than other things in my life, and I tolerated unacceptable behavior in part because I was so confused by the changes in his behavior. And because I kept thinking it would stop.

I personally don't think this is abnormal in the short term because I feel as part of a family unit - it can be emotionally distressing for all - and focus can shift to a member of the family who is ill and showing severe symptoms. Logic says they will see the problem, correct it. Or they will go see a doctor, be diagnosed and receive medical care which will resolve the symptoms, treat the underlying problem, and life will go back to how it was for all of us in the family.

When people speak of the slow fall of the family member who lives long term with the dysfunction addiction brings - I can understand how this happens - it slowly creeps in - and then one day its all there is remaining. The family member is part of the problem however because they become dysfunctional in response to the dysfunction. If they have red flags in their own behavior, just like the addict - these are ignored. So the cycle continues. Some may call this codependency but I prefer not to use labels or assume there is a one size fits all explanation or solution for the family member.


I have had people just assume that because I married an alcoholic that somehow that makes me a codependent person

Ive also seen this assumption. I think it goes back to ones own beliefs on addiction - what it is, why people have it, what types of people are affected - stigma and preconceived notions. I also personally think the link between alcoholic/addict = codependent family member is encouraged by some recovery programs.


Frankly, I feel I am not in denial, I am a fairly self-aware person, and I score a near 0 on every codependent profiling quiz I come across. I am getting frustrated when people use that title and have no idea who I am

I feel like I did the correct thing for myself after I realized I was making so many mistakes and admitted my emotional distress. I went to see a psychologist who specialized in addiction. I even asked about codependency but after explaining my own specific situation, the doctor said no you are not. You made mistakes in dealing with the situation because you were not prepared and it would help to work on coping skills, and educate yourself on addiction. Ive even shared that with people and often they say, maybe your therapist wasn't familiar with addiction.


I am looking for similar experiences to understand more about how other people feel about labeling, personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is something that interest me too. I will not allow myself to fall into the victim mentality. There was chaos in my home and it affected me deeply for a short amount of time as compared to what other members here post about.

My husband was truly out of control for a while especially when mixing drugs and alcohol. But he was in no way responsible for how I handled the situation. He was not in control of my emotions or my choices. I was. I am. One of the issues I have been wanting to talk about with other family members is this feeling I have where I keep going back to how I lost control of my emotions, and then my logical thinking process. I was faced with a personal challenge unlike anything I had ever experienced and although I understand why I responded as I did.. how do I know I will be able to handle life when the next HUGE challenge comes my way.

I want to understand how to find a support system that isn't solely focused on managing one's codependent nature

Ive found the most support through individual therapy. We did family therapy and the Dr also held these group sessions and there were about 6 of us couples who sat and talked. That was really insightful! We moved away from that area so cant go anymore.

I wish there was a program like Alanon that was free, accessible to many, but not tied to a program. I found it was helpful in some ways, but it really focuses on codependency and control issues. I believe, and someone can correct me if Im wrong - but the material originally used and recommended for family was Melody Beatties book: Codependency No More.

To fill in some of the support gaps for myself, Ive looked for online peer support related to marriage, divorce, families who are dealing with mental health /chronic issues. Addiction is now medically defined as a Alcohol or Substance Use Disorder so this terminology is helpful when looking on the medical side of things. This may sound strange but for example bipolar illness creates a situation that can be similar for families to deal with. And many actually have dealt with substance abuse issues in an attempt to self medicate. Ive never found family members to be focused on codependency in the medical support settings. But I have found much on boundaries, self care, how to support but not smother, how to maintain relationships to what degree is possible, treatment, and other things which have been helpful to me.

velma929

Labels don't often help much. My shrink asked me once, "What are you getting by staying with your husband? There's a reason or reasons you're doing it."

He was right about that. Some people are afraid of change (even if the chances it could be BETTER are great) If the alcoholic is still working, one may be better off financially with him/her than without. Some may not want to admit her whirlwind romance and marriage six months after meeting was a mistake. Maybe people in her family *don't get divorces.*

Not that I've thought about this at all...