donewithhurting

She started drinking again.
In Al-Anon I learned not to talk about the drinking.
The 3 C's

So Holiday comes, me and the grown kids abstain from drinking in support of her "sobriety"

She sneaks booze, gets trashed and we have to deal with a drunk..

But I can't talk about it with her as she get really defensive...
And then I remember that I can't talk about it.

So we ignore th elephant in the room? She gets to get trashed, we suffer for it, and she gets a free pass?

Please tell me how this is supposed to work.

FeelingGreat

Hi Done, I'm not familiar with Al-anon, but I think the idea is that it's useless to reason them sober. In the sense of dealing with her on the spot you can't really avoid mentioning it and letting her know you're aware she's trashed may be unavoidable. I also personally think you have the right to tell her how you are feeling if you need to vent. It won't stop her drinking but that's about you, not her.

Just wondering how you have to 'deal' with her? Is she acting in a way that spoils your gathering? Abusive? Carrying her upstairs? Would you all be happier if she wasn't around during family gatherings?

Do you have any boundaries about her drinking or behaviour, about what you'll live with or not?

I should have said straight up that I'm sorry she's relapsed. I don't know how old your children are, but I remember how I was always on edge as a young teen, dreading that this would be the night my parents drank.

SparkleKitty

The three C’s are not about ignoring the drinking or pretending it is not happenings. They are about accept that you have no control over her actions.

You have stated here before, I believe, that if she drinks, you are done. Is that still your boundary?

Hawkeye13

Enforce your boundary, since it is impossible to control the actions of another adult.

AnvilheadII

She started drinking again.

no, from what you have shared, that should read:
She is STILL drinking. she never really quit quit.

trying to talk to someone who is drunk is pretty useless. but that does not mean that you do not have a voice. or an opinion. or a choice.

dandylion

dwh......remember that alanon exists for and bout you--that have suffered due to the love one's drinking.....
What you are referring to (not talking about the drinking)....is a part of what is called detachment. Detachment can be a tool to help free one up from the entanglement with the alcoholic and their alcoholism.
In the way you are talking about this detachment concept, I believe....is a short-term tool to help give you some time and space to begin to think more clearly and remove you from the senseless, futile, disturbing fighting that can come from nagging them about the drinking....Why? Because they will almost always get defensive, and counter-attack you and just heap more blame on your head. It won't motivate them to quit drinking...but it sure will wear you down and stir up your emotions and and just make your hour-to-hour existence more and more miserable.....
I agree with what FeelingGreat just posted to you.....
1. You have a right to express your feelings to her about how her drinking is effecting you and your family. Best to do it when she is in a sober state....because she won't remember much of what is said while dunk, anyway.
2. Operating from boundaries....boundaries to protect yourself from the effects of the drinking. The concept of boundaries can be tricky to wrap your head around..especially, at first...so you may have to spend some time grappling with it...

As FeelingGreat pointed out---you do need to use common sense about dealing with your wife when she is actively drinking and disruptive....(lol...the same way that "Security" might have to deal with a person who was acting up in a hotel lobby).....

Detachment is a short-term tool, when used in this context that you are talking about. It is not a "cure" for the alcoholic..or a solution for a bad relationship. It can buy you some peace and room to think more clearly.
One does need a hammer to build a house...but, you can't build a whole house with J UST a hammer....

For the alcoholic...the compulsion to drink is powerful...and, the alcoholic voice is whispering to them 24/7. Holidays and special events are particularly triggering for most. The compulsion to drink will override other factors...like others not drinking to "respect their sobriety"....An alcoholic who wants to drink will find a way to drink....Of course, this is especially true when one is still early in their sobriety...or, is not working their program diligently....

You can't control them...is the bottom line...their control is up to them....
The question for you is alwa ys...what are YOU going to do?

I recognize that relapse must be enormously disappointing for you and you are probably as angry as *ell........

atalose

Only if that is what you continue to choose to do.

Other options would be………..

Not have family gatherings that include her when you suspect she has been or is drinking.

Plan a get together with your kids away from her and the house.

The more we attempt to have “normal” with an active alcoholic the bigger that elephant becomes.

dandylion

YES--as atalose says.."The more we attempt to have "normal" with an active alcoholic, the bigger the elephant becomes. I have sure found that to be true!

OMG...I don't know of anything as sure to mess up a family special occasion like an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not a respecter of persons---not the alcoholic or anyone connected to the alcoholic. The disease desires only to be satisfied as top priority and doesn't care a twit about anything else. It can't. That is why it is called a disease.....
The disease is powerful....it is bigger than you are, dwh . And...it is more powerful than she is...until and unless she is able to co me to the realization that she is powerless in the face of alcohol.....(addressed in Step 1)......
(I have seen alcoholics dabble in AA for a long time before they ever come to terms with Step 1.).....

Bernadette

Detaching allows me to get back to reality and to NOT ignore any elephants. But it is wicked hard to do, and as dandylion points out - it is only one tool!

I also struggled with this kind of stuff- like if I am detaching am I just ignoring and being in denial and allowing unacceptable behavior on the As part? The answer was yes, if ALL I am doing is detaching. And this from atalose kind of gets to the heart of it:

The more we attempt to have “normal” with an active alcoholic the bigger that elephant becomes.

An example, and this was only possible for me after years of AlAnon and learning about this dynamic etc. Years ago, one A bro invited me and the boys out to his house for some winter fun, sledding, etc. I was wary but also always trying to maintain a relationship and normalcy. He and his roommate were drinking heavily when we arrived. It was late and I put the boys to bed and then I just felt trapped listening to their obnoxious loud mouthed drunk blabbedy blah. I thought about detaching, this wasn't my business etc, it's his house. What I really wanted to do was go scream at him, "You a**hole! I come here with your little nephews and you're just a wasted mess, WTH is wrong with you etc etc etc!" I was so pissed. But having practiced some level of consistent detachment I sat on the edge of the bed and just calmly thought about my choices.

I repacked our stuff, woke up the boys, got the parkas on 2 cranky sleepy kids and schlepped our stuff back out to my car. My bro and his pal were like "Where are you going? WTH are you doing?" I said, in a level voice, "There's just too much drinking going on here. I can't be around it. Catch you later." Oh boy did my bro start roaring, what an a**hole I was, it's Friday night they are just having a "few" beers, you're such a judgmental quack quack quackeroooooo......he was yelling at me, trying so hard to pick a fight with me, that old hobby horse of the A, blow up and rage and deflect, deflect, deflect (YAWN). I just said, "Hey man it's cool. I'm just going home."

The boys were in a fog (I think they were probably 7 and 11). It was only an hour or so drive, and I spoke to them about why I decided not to stay, about drinking, and how uncomfortable it makes me, I don't really remember but age appropriate and honest about my feelings. I do remember my older son asking some really interesting questions.

Next afternoon I took the boys to a state park and we ice skated and had hot choco and had a lot of fun.

Did A bro call me to apologize next day? HA! Did he stop drinking because of what I did? HA HA! But my ability to do that (which was really a struggle believe me!) was a turning point in my understanding of addiction and codependency.

What I learned:

• I can acknowledge that the planned event is ruined, for me, by drunken behavior, and YET I can still go on to have a good time, on my terms; I do not have to let my own mood be ruined, even if the "event" is tainted by their behavior.

I started to see a good analogy in that movie A Christmas Story, if you've ever seen it? My A bros are like Bumpus's hounds, and when they come steal the Christmas turkey, yes I am going to lament the loss of the turkey, and I will have lots of intense feelings, but then I am going to go out for Chinese food and have a good time (different holiday than I planned but no less fun or special!).

What I have found is this really rocks the boat of the enablers in my family. The alcoholics just continue to do what they do, whether they blame me or talk about me behind my back, or they ignore the fact that I leave. They. Just. Keep. Drinking.

Loving an A really sucks and is really hard to navigate. The dynamic that is created is beyond the bounds of normal human friendship. We keep applying normalcy, and the A uses this to alcohol's advantage, which is to maintain a relationship dynamic that supports drinking.

Blueskies18

Hi Donewithhurting,

I'm sorry you had to deal with this. I had a similar experience two days ago with my husband who had been sober for 75 days.
All my mixed up feelings surfaced and I dealt with it by reading, and trying to reach out to other people who might understand. I knew I had to talk to him, because, like you, I find it stressful for there to be an elephant in the room, which only gets bigger in time. For me, in the past, when I know I need to talk about something that's on my mind I keep a few things in mind:
1) HALT am I hungry anxious lonely tired? a few months ago I would have said yes to lonely and tired all the time, now not so much. If the answer is yes then need to stop and take care of myself.
2) what is my hidden agenda for needing to talk? is it to hear what I want to hear? is it change him or help him? Or is it just something that I need to say. In the past he has been defensive, angry, dishonest, attacking towards me, and I've still been happy that I said what I needed to say.

People will give you advice. For some people perhaps elephants aren't a problem and they can stay quiet about something like this. The great thing about Alanon is that you can take what you want and leave the rest. Not everything that's said there or here will always be the best thing to hear or the best advice for you, and sometimes we will take what we want only when we are ready for it.

Personally, I have not been drinking either, and I like to remember that this is my choice, not something I am doing because I'm making a sacrifice for him. This removes any chance of me feeling resentful for my decisions.

One thing that has helped me in difficult times, is noticing what's going on with me emotionally. I can be sad, but when sadness and anger comes from trying to force a solution for his problems, I know that headed in the wrong direction.

The best thing I have done in the last two weeks, is to deliberately write down three things I do every day that I call self-care. Some of the things on my list are: have a shower, clean the kitchen, do laundry, eat a really good healthy meal, go for a run, meditate, listen to music etc. My husband has a plan, and I decided that I need one too! The habits I have formed have really helped me to get away from worry and control.

And finally, the good news is, nothing is urgent for me. Like you, my kids are grown. There is no urgent need to protect anyone else except for myself. I can let go and let God, take it easy, take a walk, be in the moment, reflect on what is best for me, go to an alanon meeting, talk to my therapist, etc. What a luxury!

I had many sad crying moments on Saturday, and I am happy to say that the sadness hasn't multiplied into self-pity or trying to force solutions purely because of my plan. I've heard it said that alcoholism is a baffling disease, and sometimes I feel baffled in my moments of difficulty. When I remember not to try and force a solution to my problem and accept what I cannot control, I'm able to calm and think clearly.

I was done with hurting too. I wish you all the best.

Berrybean

You have set so many 'boundaries' but not followed through on them. Just reread this thread... https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...igure-out.html (Help me figure this out)

I think it's got to the stage where when she says shes trying to stay sober she doesn't believe herself and you don't believe her either. But equally, when you state your boundaries she doesn't believe them any more than she believes she s going to stay sober. And why would she? You haven't followed through on a single one of them. She might have to resort to a hissy fit or some sulking every now and then, but actually what shes doing is working for her right now.

It isn't a case of not saying anything and making it an elephant in the room. It needs to be a case of saying clearly what you mean and sticking to it. And the first stage of this (like getting sober) Is about courageous self-honesty. What ARE your boundaries? What are you willing to do for yourself to ensure that she doesn't get to keep treating you the same way as she has been? You need to figure this out for yourself, and work out the practicalities of it before you tell HER (if you even DO tell her, because you don't have to if you don't want to). This is about you protecting yourself, not controlling her (you really can't do that - there is no magic threat of cajoling statement that will make her do what you want. If she wants to drink she'll drink, as you've found).

It may mean consulting a lawyer to discuss what your options are.

BB

Ladybird579

Please tell me how this is supposed to work.

As I said to you on your other thread. It isn't supposed to work. You set a boundary..one was you were done if she started drinking again but how many times have you threatened this and not followed through? She will not stop and all you can do is decide if you want to live like this. If you don't, you leave or make plans to get her out. Simple. Nothing is going to change from her end. She knows you do not carry out your ultimatums and can't/won't stop even if you do.

The elephant in the room is you do not seem to be able to accept that is the truth of this situation. It will stay as it is until YOU change it.

FireSprite

IMO - you already HAVE been ignoring the elephant in the room, every single day - not just during this event.

What's supposed to happen is that you're supposed to enforce boundaries, but you haven't seemed to be able to get to that point just yet..... you seem to want to spend more time decorating the elephant, widening the doorways for it to fit through & then blaming it for being the elephant that it is when it still continues to thrash around your life.

Trust me, you aren't the first of us to do this - not even close. Its easier sometimes to say what you want than it is to stand up & create it. Fear, Guilt, Obligation - all these thing get twisted into our sense of love & belonging but they are NOT the same thing.

Marriage vows are NOT a mutual suicide pact.

You can get off this merry-go-round anytime you'd like, DWH. She is not changing so you're going to have to if you want your life to be different.

NYCDoglvr

The only actions you're able to change are your own. In Alanon I learned I'm powerless over people, places and things; if I don't like what someone is doing I can leave but that's it.

tomsteve

Please tell me how this is supposed to work.
welp, heres how it worked for my fiance:
experience me a drunken SOB. she'd be irate and hurt the next day.
i would "im sorry" and "i promise."
and she would believe it.
repeat.
add a threat here and there and i would slooooowly slide back into my old habits( slooooly meant within less than 2 weeks).
she wouldnt back up her boundaries. i would keep dragging her down with me.

until the day after my last drunk. she had enough and through tears told me some of what i did and said in a blackout.
"im sorry" was met with," **** YOU!"
"i promise..." was met with," **** OFF!"
"im going to....." was met with,"GET OUT!! PACK YOU **** AND GET THE **** OUT!"

i did. she stuck to that boundary. no wobbling it.
she healed.