hummingbird358

Maybe this is not there right place to post this but I am just curious.
Since I have been researching different rehabs for my son I have noticed that almost 90% of those that work there are recovering addicts. They are very helpful and always have such inspiring stories.
Do rehabs hire their patients after a certain time period? Just seems odd that almost everyone that answers the phone are in recovery. Like do they offer them free sober living in exchange for work or something. Or is it just that since they are sober they love the feeling and want to help others. Just curious if anyone ever noticed that.

Seems like maybe there is hope after all that when our loved ones go to rehab some do actually turn the corner and stay sober. A lot of them do admit they had to go to rehab more than once though

Clover71

My mom was a detox nurse. Most of her coworkers were recovering addicts. She had been married to an alcoholic (my dad). Some feel like they have a calling after recovering or living through this life. I find the same pattern to be present in social work.

Sleepyhollo

My RAH went to rehab and several of the people that worked there were recovering alcoholics but there were also several of them that were not. The recovering alcoholics were all licensed to do whatever they were doing though. I think a lot of them once they get clean they want to help others and get the necessary training in order to do so. They’re obviously a very good resource since they know that patients ave gone through exactly. I don’t think they just hire them unless they have the right training. I can’t speak for sober living housing but only the full blown inpatient rehab my RaH went to.

Clover71

Oh yeah. I missed that part. They wouldn't be there unless they were trained in that discipline

Seren

In many ways, I think that staffing rehabs with people who have solid recovery is a good thing. They can speak to the recovering addict/alcoholic from personal experience in a way that I, for example, could not. I might have the best education and the best of intentions, but I have not walked the walk.

tomsteve

Do rehabs hire their patients after a certain time period?
what i know of certain one,theres a time period, long after the employees were patients.
i dont know if rehabs allow patients work for them in much more than duties like housekeeping, laundry, kitchen help,yardworketc. ones i know about dont allow patients past that.

Like do they offer them free sober living in exchange for work or something.
ones i know about-no. employees earn A wage.
theres typically training,too

atalose

From what I understand, many of the rehabs have call centers, where they may hire recovering addicts who have not yet taken the proper course to become full counselors but can answer the phone and answer some questions. They usually take the information, name, phone number, insurance etc. then they pass it along to someone actually in admitting at the facility.

aliciagr

When we were looking at rehabs, noticed this also. I think some of the rehabs do specifically look for people in recovery because they are relatable, can share their story. On the phone they are trying to be informative, but also encourage those who might be skeptical of going into treatment.

I also think its true that rehabs, and sober living hire those in recovery as part of what they call the rehabilitation process and job training. Depending on the situation, former patients may not have developed job skills, work history - but they can fit into this industry with jobs ranging from housekeeping, peer counselors.

But we found its important to check into components of "treatment" and to make sure there are qualified doctors and other staff who handle these things. Insurance usually requires rehabs to meet minimum standards on what they call evidence based treatments, but some rehabs that are free or low cost don't have to meet these standards as insurance isn't involved usually.

YES!! The rehabs should be honest. All the medical stuff Ive seen says clearly multiple attempts at treatment, including rehabs may be needed. Its important to have accurate expectations. This is something hard to treat even when a person wants to recover. why its called a chronic relapsing brain disease. Its good the people on the phone told you of their own experiences because that's the reality.

Babescake

At least you recognize it as a disease. Nobody wants this life. I hope F&F know that even if that is the life we get. Sucks for me I guess though I'm fighting. Imagine fighting every day to be normal. It blows.

racingthoughts

hey hummingbird,

As you know, I'm a recovering addict who is currently working in a rehab.

I was a little under two years sober when I started working there. I was close enough that it was okay for me to work there, but there policy on recovering employees is two years clean. With that being said, I'm a graduate student going for a specialized addictions counseling degree. This is why they brought me on, and my status as a recovering person had no bearing on it. This may be unique, but most of the clinicians at my site are not in recovery. Rehabs don't just hire people because they're former addicts.

Sober living is something for people in the very early stages of recovery. A former addict who qualifies time-wise at any decent rehab is going to be past the sober living stage.

Your last sentence about "needing" multiple stays in rehab is somewhat of a misconception. Addicts have to experience a level of pain when using to where getting clean is less painful than continuing to use. Someone who needs multiple rehab stays or attempts at sobriety is someone who hasn't experienced enough pain to where they become willing to do whatever it takes, and this is different for every person. This is how powerful the disease is. An addict can go to 500 rehabs, and if the willingness resulting from the pain isn't there, then each stay will be a waste of money. I was totally willing to do whatever it took the first time I went to rehab, and therefore, only went once. I'm working with a client now who isn't even thirty yet and has been to rehab 15 times.

All of this is why you have to be absolutely sure your son wants this before you shell out a large sum of money to send him to rehab, if he is in fact willing to go. Rehab is a tool, not a solution.

aliciagr

Thanks for your post. Im curious, you said you were willing to do anything. What did you do?

I had a couple of questions if you don't mind answering. When you entered rehab how long did you stay? Where were you on the grading spectrum with your alcohol/substance use disorder? what kind of treatments did you receive when you were inpatient? What tools did you use, or currently use for recovery? Did you have any other underlying medical issues to address like past abuse, depression, bipolar, anxiety?

Just trying to reconcile what I was told from the Addiction doctor/therapist that I worked with, and what you said about needing to want it bad enough and be willing to do anything and then one shot of rehab or treatment is enough. That is a reference Ive heard a lot from people in AA and Alanon also. But it doesn't match up with a lot of what I was told directly , or with what Ive seen coming form the medical community. What about motivational interviewing and other approaches that are used by therapists? And the concept that even failed attempts can slow progression and raise the bottom where complete change can occur? Part of the issue with negative consequences and failed realization of how the use of substances are causing the pain is due to changes in the brain, the frontal lobe as I understand it. Id really love to trace back where the idea of wanting it bad enough comes from. Ive looked and looked and I cant find anything. Im a bit of a research geek and when I hear something I like to dig into it. As a student maybe you have a resource you can share?

My husband entered a rehab in a rush because of his parents and a legal issue they created to get him into treatment. But he hated it there and didn't finish the program. He did however switch over to individual therapy and that seems to have worked well. The legal issue had nothing to do with it because that whole thing was dropped within a few months and he had no new consequences. So he wasn't willing to do the rehab and follow their guide, but he went another way with good results. I remember people telling me he wasn't ready yet after he left that rehab. The director of the rehab told me that also! He said he did the work as asked but had no heart in it. As a family member that was upsetting but I had to just trust in what I was seeing from my husband. Most certainly, it was progress but not perfection for a while in his recovery.

hopeful4

Wow! All so very true! Thank you for sharing this!

racingthoughts

aliciagr,

I went to a dual-diagnosis facility due to the fact that I have bipolar II, although, I was diagnoses with major depressive disorder at the time. I was never in inpatient. Based on what I was using and the fact that I wasn't actively suicidal, both my insurance and the facility wouldn't approve me for a bed. I was an outpatient instead. My first two weeks were spent in a partial-hospitalization level of care. For five days a week I spent the mornings in an addictions group and the afternoons in a mental health group. Also, I saw their psychiatrist weekly. He put me on a couple psychiatric drugs that I have mixed feelings about, but were generally helpful at the time. I stayed in an extended stay motel at night, due to the facts that home was over an hour away and I didn't trust myself to not use. This is what I mean by willing to do anything to stay clean. I knew moments of weakness would come, and being in that motel room and away from drugs at 2 in the morning kept me clean. I stopped trying to be my own doctor and gave myself over to the program. Many addicts who go into rehab complain about trite little requirements and the level of care they're in, while also not taking suggestions. These are the ones least likely to succeed. The desperation isn't there and this is seen by the fact that they're still trying to run their own show. It's sad that desperation is the determining factor here, but like I said, addiction is so powerful that you have to be so desperate that you're willing to do anything to not use. My motel room, which I drained most of my small remaining funds to pay for up front, was symbolic of my willingness to change. Without it, rehab may not have worked for me. I was in 5 day PHP for two weeks and then 3 day IOP for about a month. I would have stayed longer, but my senior year of college was beginning. I learned a lot of great coping skills and set a foundation for myself, and now, I have almost 3 years clean as a result.

I'll try to address your doctor vs. aa questions as concisely as possible. First of all, most rehabs that are covered by insurance use a disease model, which I personally believe in. This implies that you're either an addict or you aren't, and if you are, you need to remain clean from all mind-altering substances. In short, it defines addiction as an obsession of the mind and an allergy of the body, and results in self-will run amuck. Not using requires the willingness, a spiritual solution, and other help when needed. Most doctors don't follow this. They follow what is known as the medical model. The medical model is different than the disease model in that it sees addiction as something that can be dealt with with prescribed medical interventions. These include therapy, rehab, and certain drugs that help someone stay clean. Doctors will treat rehab like a prescription that may need to be upped in dose. I'd argue that the dose can be as high as it wants, and if the willingness isn't there, it won't make a difference, hence the guy I mentioned who has been to 15 rehabs in as many years. The medical model, including the DSM-5, defines addiction as a "substance-use disorder" that varies in severity and specific drug. Rehabs will diagnose someone with one, but this is mostly an insurance formality. If it's based in the disease model, then the same therapeutic approach will be instilled. I don't like the whole substance-use disorder thing, because if someone has "alcohol-use disorder: severe", then it implies that alcohol is the core problem. Addiction is the disease and the drug of choice is a technicality. Many places now are trying to incorporate the medical and disease models together, including the place that I work at. Addressing addiction medically isn't enough though, in my opinion. An example would be the use of Vivitrol. This medical intervention is supposed to be a cure for alcoholism or opioid addiction, as it blocks the euphoric effects of using these substances while reducing cravings. It's not a cure though, it's a tool. I've seen several people turn to cocaine while on this. I've also seen people drink unbelievable quantities of liquor in an attempt to override the effects. The disease hasn't been adequately addressed in these cases, and the willingness to change either wasn't there to begin with, or has subsided altogether.

Motivational Interviewing is a counseling technique that is used on people who are ambivalent about change. Like everything, it can be a tool for someone who's contemplating getting clean or even contemplating contemplation. If someone is in rehab because they want to be there, it generally serves little purpose.

I wish I had some great resource to share with you, but I don't. You can look up comparative analyses of the models of addiction. If you want to know more about the disease model, the AA big book or NA basic text would be a good place to start. Going to an open AA or NA meeting could be another tactic. There don't seem to be a lot of scientific conclusions. My opinions come from my own experience, my experience working with others, and what I've learned in grad school. Everyone is different.

aliciagr

Thank you very much RacingThoughts. I didn't make it clear yesterday when I posted that Im very happy you are in recovery and doing well !

YES, there is a distinct difference in the medical model which includes all the things you mentioned (which was all explained to me by the addiction Dr I worked with). It entails many different types of therapy, behavioral therapies, tools that are more aligned with an internal locus of control vs the spiritual approach usually the 12 step model which is calls for more of an external locus of control - something beyond you is necessary. Have no desire to debate, but agree - and understand the difference. The medical model encourages treatment as early as possible and uses therapeutic tools to help ready a person who may be ambivalent move towards change with certainty and focus. yes agree. While the disease model, from what I can find and sounds like you agree - the concept comes from the program/Big Book where readiness, complete willingness is core to success.

Its good you are planning to get a Masters Degree because at least at this point it appears treatment is moving towards evidence based medical model for treatment. But YES again many rehabs combine both models as the multi-disciplinary approach can be the most effective and offer the most options. covers all bases so to speak.

But technically per the medical field - peer support/the spiritual model isn't called treatment and participation isn't required for recovery to occur. Although its often encouraged and can provide a good long term support that is free and readily available.

That I think is where it can be confusing to family members and patients also!

I did go to a few AA meetings with my husband and I went to Alanon for a while also. This is where many of my questions stem from. As you know in those meetings there is no material outside of AA offered, no crosstalk. But I did find lots of shares after the meetings on the family side. My MIL is also focus solely on the spiritual model, and she still cannot accept that my husband wouldn't use that approach. Its had a very deep emotional effect on her (which could be considered codependency - lol ) So Ive just stopped trying to talk to her about the subject and I just ask her to look for the end result of recovery work, and let his actions shine through. That is all that matters anyway in the end as far as Im concerned.

But alas, thank you for answering my question and confirming that the idea of 'wanting it bad enough, and willing to do anything' basically comes from the program. I respect that and appreciate the time you took to answer my question.

Seren

Here in lies the rub, I believe. The idea that rehab or other recovery methods won't work unless and until the addicted person really wants recovery more than anything comes from the testimony of the recovering addicts and alcoholics themselves. I have read this stated over and over here on SR in the Newcomers, Alcoholism, and Substance Abuse sub-forums--written by people who are finally sober and are sharing their own experiences. While it may not be peer-reviewed research, we scientists do have a name for personal testimony from many individuals--data.

I am glad that researchers and counselors have a variety of methods and tools at their disposal, because different things work for different people. I can only hope and pray that each person who struggles with this "relapsing brain disorder" finds whatever it is that will help them lead peaceful and joy-filled lives.

aliciagr

I understand your point and agree.

If someone was to ask me how I got where I am now from where I was 2 years ago I would say the same thing - I was willing to do whatever it took. But my state of mind was not so clear when I began going online for support, or called and made my first therapy appointment. I think all I can say for sure is that I knew something needed to change in my life. I had help figuring out the rest, and I took it step by step with my strength growing as I continued on.

I think change and success of any kind requires a person to do whatever it takes. If you want to stop -drugs, alcohol, gambling, lose weight, become a champion gymnast, get that promotion at work, get an A in the science class.

But could you imagine if you had to state your desire and willingness to do anything -Before - you were to allowed to register for this site? Before going to see your doctor for the first time? Before you went to your first Alanon or AA meeting? Before you were hired by that company, Before you could sign up for gymnastics class?

NYCDoglvr

Rehabs hire staff with training and certification in the recovery field. I'm sure the majority of people working in recovery-related professions are people who relate to it personally. Being of service is a cornerstone of AA recovery which can be done by sponsoring others or incorporating into career-related activities.

NotAPeach

My husband went to a rehab that was several thousand miles away. When I made the initial contact with them (via an online form on their website), the young man who called me back was in recovery and he let me know that fairly early on. At one point I asked if everybody who worked there was, and he told me that everybody but two or three people was in recovery, and then told me that one of the people not an alcoholic/addict was one of the owners and "a normie like you. We call you guys normies." That normie guy is from what I would call an extremely famous family of alcoholics, so he obviously has been around it all his life. I don't think the phone guy went through the same rehab but there was another guy there who did the same job and he did go through the same rehab where he worked. He's been featured on TV a bunch of times, I think.

I really liked that there were so many employees there who were in recovery. From my perspective, I obviously couldn't really help my husband so maybe trying something different with people who understood what was happening might be worth a try. The phone guy insisted that he had to have a "man to man talk" with my husband because he said it would all be a waste of time and money if my husband wasn't ready, and he was nice but blunt that I was not invited to be a part of this call and it needed to be the two of them (this was actually fine with me but I guess sometimes it is a problem).

Anyway, I think there are lots of reasons why people in recovery work at rehabs. For the lovely young man I referred to above, he apparently spent quite a bit of time in prison as a result of his addiction. Trust me when I tell you that if you met him, you would never in a million years guess that. He looks and behaves like a boy scout. So maybe finding employment could be a challenge due to his prison record. I also think that part of working a successful recovery program can include helping others, so it helps them as well as the people they are trying to help.

There is also the current reality that there is A LOT of money in drug and alcohol rehabilitation. My husband's rehab had a 2:1 staff:client ratio and he had several counselors that he saw every day, but it was also not cheap, although I think that had some clients who were there at a reduced rate (not sure how that all worked). I was shocked at how much the total bill was for 2 months of rehab.

daredevil

hummingbird1094,

From what I’ve heard, two people I know derived benefit from the fact that their counselors (one at IOP, one at inpatient) were alcoholics in recovery. One person said that at a prior rehab, the counselor ‘with the Ph.D’ didn’t understand his plight. Understanding someone’s plight and relating to it are different things, and I think people benefit when someone can relate to them. My counselor wasn’t in recovery, but I related to him. Although it works for some, I’d prefer not to have a counselor in recovery, all things factored. I’m sure it’s a selling point for rehabs, but people who are drawn rehabs are questionable in my opinion.

dandylion

As a counterpoint to daredevil's point....I have worked with alcoholics and their families in a variety of settings....When I first began my career...I was very green (and young) in my knowledge about alcoholism. Like many here, I was not raised around alcohol and, medical training was great on the physical consequences but not very much in depth as to the psychosocial dynamics around the issue. That still requires specialized study and experience...even, today....especially the experience part.
At my very greenest...I began working in a large, new psychiatric unit that also served a large number of alcoholics and drug addicts. I still value the education that I got by working along with long recovering alcoholics....psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, social workers...They all had academic credentials...but...it was their experience of being an alcoholic in recovery that gave them special insight....One of their favorite sayings was "You can't bull***t a bull****ter".....
I was also, privileged to spend several days onsite at Hazelden Treatment Center, in Minnesota---known as one of the best in the country...along, with Betty Ford...at that time. A large percentage of their staff was recovering alcoholics...
I will, also, add that everywhere I have worked ....recovering alcoholics were very highly valued and that the 12 step model was incorporated into the overall treatment programs.
I feel very indebted to recovering alcoholics and, find them to be some of the most honest and compassionate people that I have dealt with....as, they were l ong recovering.....
I truly believe that a long recovering alcoholic who continues to work (live) their program is truly a changed person....for the better!