dandylion

The following scan shows the physical appearance of an alcoholic brain as compared to a more normal brain....

There has been a lot of discussion, especially, lately, concerning the behaviors of the alcoholic...over the course of their drinking history and during early months of recovery/sobriety....
This scan reveals the actual changes in the brain that can explain the dramatic changes that loved ones observe in their alcoholic....

https://abuse-drug.com/wp-content/up...lcoholic-2.jpg

Learning14

Whoa!

dawnrising

WOW - my AH forgets conversations but insists he is right. He knows he has trouble with his memory and thinks its from playing soccer as a kid of course he didn't have issues until the drinking got really bad. Btw its not like he played outside of high school. He admitted to me that he had this problem that was scaring him but insisted that with me he always remembered the incident the right way and I had the problem. QUACK

Smarie78

Can the alcoholic brain heal or is this the brain they will always have as an addict that they must contend with? I ask because this would then change the whole recovery game (ie. can one recovery that no longer possess the biological capacity to do so?)

dandylion

Smarie.....the simple answer to this is that the brain does have capacity to compensate and recover to a degree....and, it takes some time to do so....
again, the variable between individuals come into play....the things like age, length of time and amounts of drinking, any other chronic problems that the person may have, etc.......
It is possible to have permanent damage in some individuals....

CarryOn

I believe it can...to a point. When my XAH was in an IOP, they informed us that he had "cognitive impairment". I had noticed some of the issues but didn't realize the seriousness of it until they told us. It improved/disappeared with sobriety, but came right back when he started drinking again. The impression I had was with continued use there would come a time when the impairment would become permanent and his brain function would continue to decrease.

For reference...my XAH was 47 at the time of this diagnosis. He had been drinking off and on for four years at that point, following seventeen years of sobriety. He generally drank 12-24 cans of beer a day, 4-5 days per week.

Wamama48

I imagine that scan is from a very severe alcoholic, but WOW, what a difference! It helps to see there is an issue, its not all selfishness. When you've lived with alcoholic selfishness for two decades, its encouraging to see the brain has the ability to heal, even when severely damaged.

Smarie78

Interesting and yes, very fascinating. My qualifier is 43 and had been in active addiction for years with small breaks of sobriety, or dryness rather. Probably the longest stint of sobriety was 4 years (that I know of and also take with a grain of salt since it was before I was in the picture). I don't know when his drinking turned into addiction, but as of now he goes about a month or two totally dry and then binges for weeks on nothing but straight alcohol. No break in between, just lays in bed and drinks and ceases to function. He also drinks chemicals during these binges as well when he gets desperate (perfumes, hairsprays, vicks liquid rub) so I would be shocked if this hasn't impacted his brain with permanent damage.

I would just think at this point stopping completely and forever is the only option since he is still alive and in a dry period. I just often wonder if his brain is capable of it and whether permanent damage has taken hold. At any rate I have detached from him, but I of course still pray for him.

hopeful4

Wow.

My XAH forgot to give me something that belongs to my child, so I went by today and picked it up as he left it for me in their garage.

What I also saw bagged up in his garage were his 100's of his beer cans and bottles. It reminds me that his brain looks a lot like this I would guess, between the drinking and RX drugs he pops like candy. This is around his same age.

How sad. I may not like him or care for him in any way other than he is the father of my children, but for them, I pray for him daily.

aliciagr

I don't mean to sound silly here, but do most family members do research on alcoholism, alcohol use disorder, substance use disorder, brain function and such?

This was one of the first things I did in order to "help myself". I of course looked online where there is a lot of info, but I also went to see a Dr who specialized in addiction medicine.

The brain function part has been really important for me to understand. It has to do with behaviors, memory, symptoms, refusal to acknowledge the problem, refusal to seek treatment. The knowledge of this stuff plays into so many of the choices Ive made all during this process.

I was told the brain recovers for the most part. It develops new pathways over time. But the odds are always better when progression is stopped early. That's why such a push for treatment even when its not 100% effective. Slows progression. Remaining sober for a good chunk of time is important , so overall healing can take place. Its why even when sober for a day or two - and we think we are talking to someone who is logical, rational - often we aren't because that damage is there.

Thanks for posting this. I know this is not a medical site, but Ive found it unusually odd this forum doesn't offer info/links for this stuff and encourage education for its family members.

hopeful4

I did educate myself. I was willing to help my XAH in any way I could, but unfortunately, he did not want to help himself.

He continues to coast down the road of addiction, trampling everyone in his path. Difference is, we got out of the way of the path.

It came down to actions. His actions were unacceptable, so I had to change the situation and break the chain for myself and my children, regardless of the "WHY."

Hawkeye13

This website is pretty well-known and about a woman who cared for her "wet brain" alcoholic spouse Riley for many years until his recent death.
It is very depressing in that what she thought would be a short time caring
pretty much ate up a large chunk of her life and health.

It has lots of information about what happens when there is no going back. . .

The Immortal Alcoholic

aliciagr

Most of my posts don't end up expressing what I mean to say in total so I apologize for that.

What I meant was that getting a good understanding of the medical side was most helpful for me. It helped me understand. It helped with my emotions, coping, anger, compassion. It helped me make choices knowing this is a complicated issue and will likely always be part of my life if we are together.

It also helped because I knew I couldn't fix it. It was not about me, and I didn't hold the magic key. You know how people in addiction blame shift and deny? I knew why so I didn't take it to heart any longer. Things like that were very helpful.

Knowing facts -also bring a lot of hope, wont deny that. Because I knew it was a medical problem. Its not that he was a bad person, weak. Something started and got out of control and the why he couldn't just stop (despite the bad stuff) was because of his brain.
That helped me.

The whole treatment issue is another topic really, but I think it does run parallel with medical facts. I will just say it helped me to know there is a lot of medical research and a lot of proven effective treatments. Its a huge relief to know my husband didn't / doesn't have to figure it all out on his own. It helps me to know the medical profession is always working to come up with more options..

dandylion

I respectfully decline to accept the statement that this site doesn't offer information and education for it's family members. I, for one, have constantly posted that "knowledge is power".....lol. And, have, just as frequently posted outside links for specific types of relevant information.
We, also have an extensive library of informational and educational articles within the stickies.
I have never seen a better or more extensive collection of information for friends and family of alcoholics. There are, also, recommendations for books on alcoholism, itself, as well as related subjects.
I think it is fair to say that this is not, primarily, a medical site....it is a support forum. I have a feeling that there would be a plethora of legal issues, were we to try to become a medical site.....I think we have to be careful about what we appear to be "sponsoring"......
I can't really comment any further than this, as I would be out in the weeds about what it takes to run a forum...lol.....

Dutchy36

My husband has frontal lobe brain damage and epileptic seizures from drinking. He always said it wasn't because of the alcohol.....until he came out of rehab....at least that is clear and I was right.

Clover71

Unfortunately, and ironically, alcohol abuse damages the part of the brain that controls impulse control - which of course includes how much to drink and when and if to stop

Wamama48

For some reason what you said here really spoke to me. Hmmm. Something Ill need to research. When I'm convinced of this, I can forgive him.

aliciagr

This is just one article I wanted to show you, might help you get started. Below are a few portions, but here is the link from science daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1119193624.htm

"An individual with executive dysfunction may not be able to anticipate and plan for the future, making the associated decisions," explained Ester M. Nakamura-Palacios, associate professor and senior scientist at the Federal University of Espírito Santo in Brazil as well as corresponding author for the study. "They may be unable to solve problems, even simple ones, and have difficulties focusing their attention or concentrating on something. They may get stuck in one response or one thought, showing inflexible behavior or thinking, or be unable to change their response when facing a new situation demanding a new or different direction. Notably, they may have difficulties controlling their own behavior, losing the ability to inhibit inadequate or even injurious behaviors."

"For many people, but especially for those who investigate the brain and its functioning, the frontal lobes are those structures that represent best the nature of humanity," said J. Leon Morales-Quezada, a research associate in the Neuromodulation Laboratory at Harvard Medical School. "These lobes located in the front of the whole brain are the governors of our behavior and are responsible for the acts that separate the homo 'thinker' sapiens from the rest of the animal kingdom. The frontal lobes control and inhibit our primal impulses; this inhibition of such impulses prevents us from taking dangerous risks, or behaving in a deviant way, and facilitates our living as a community."

"An alcoholic who is a highly skilled professional, for example, an engineer or professor, may be perfectly able to perform regular duties such as temporal and spatial orientation, naming things, and calculations. However, this highly skilled person may be frontally impaired and unable to change or control their use of alcohol or drugs, even knowing that this behavior was and is harmful, or make important decisions in urgent situations. Imagine this highly skilled alcoholic subject driving on a road and a soccer ball unexpectedly crosses in front of his or her car, likely followed by a child. Most of us would bring together all faculties needed to evaluate the situation, the possible consequences, and quickly take action, even if you hurt yourself. What if someone is unable to execute these functions in a proper way?"

"Frontal impairment is a hallmark in alcoholism and also in other drug addictions," said Nakamura-Palacios, "yet many gaps still remain regarding our understanding of this disorder. The consequences of alcohol and drug use among youth are especially worrisome as they occur during a time when the prefrontal cortex is still maturing. Behavioral changes may not be seen when they are still young but they become more apparent in adult age, when they are required to take responsibilities for many aspects of their lives. Unfortunately, we are still making late diagnoses, especially for alcoholism, when these structural brain changes are already established."

"Perhaps this research will help relatives of those suffering from this condition to better understand some of the problems they see, especially how difficult is for an alcoholic to control his/her impulses towards alcohol or their behaviors affecting other people," said Morales-Quezada. "Alcohol represents physical damage to the brain and a direct attack on its functions; the chronic toxicity of alcohol leads to aberrant behaviors that perpetuate the entrapped cycle of an addiction."

MindfulMan

It's also possible that variations in brain structure and chemistry make for poor impulse control which leads to addiction, or at least is one factor in that direction.

A chicken and egg question.

When I went into rehab I had pretty bad ataxia...stumbling gait, balance issues, and some cognitive issues. These could be symptoms of wet brain. They are two of the classic triad, the third is a loss of ocular control that makes it difficult to see.

That was May 9 of last year. I've noticed that my cognition has slowly gotten better. I was walking pretty well within about 5 weeks after my sobriety date, and the memory issues have slowly continued to improve.

I'm seeing a neurologist next week to hopefully rule out neurological damage that is permanent or even worse progressive. They will probably also do a brain MRI if the examination shows certain things. My doctor said there could be many explanations for the gait changes, including the simple fact that I started drinking around the clock in mid-March and didn't stop for 2 months, only getting out of bed to go downstairs and get more wine (I had a collection of over a thousand bottles), and it was primarily due to muscle atrophy. The continuing cognition issues could be due to medication I take for various things.

I drank and used drugs on and off from the time I was 12 years old, and I'm now in my mid 50s. It was far from a continuous usage, I had years where I drank "normally", but there were huge binges of alcohol and coke, and pretty nasty self-detoxes...which is where a lot of research indicates the damage comes from; binge drinkers are more prone to develop dementia than steady heavy drinkers.

It's all scary, but the likelihood is that I will continue to recover enough to start riding a motorcycle and remembering words again. You never know tho.

Wamama48

Thank you! That's a lot of information. The nerd in me needs to print it out, read it again and make notes. Tonight we talked about the timelines of his drinking. I knew about sneaking beer at 12, binge drinking at 14, an alcohol o.d. that almost killed him at age 16 etc. There were things I was either in denial about (very likely) or just didn't put two and two together. But after hearing it all, my head is spinning, I was blown away!