Buried AVRT Gems
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Buried AVRT Gems
I have read Trimpeys TNC lots of times.
But have now worked my way around the AVRT stuff on here.
There are is some brilliant insights and information on the long AVRT discussion threads
This, right here below, in bold is what I accept that I never accepted before. There is no high, to match the artificial high of drink/drugs (same thing drink is a drug).
This time, I do not want that high.
I do not know if there will be a time when IT goes looking for ITs high. But I never want it again. Not just I don't want alcohol again, I don't want the HIGH
I pulled this from a post in the very first AVRT discussion thread
Everyone has a Limbic system, which responds to pleasure in order to reinforce behaviors, yes. Even eating or drinking water releases some amount of Dopamine so that you keep doing it. However, the Limbic simply was not designed to deal with the obscene amount of Dopamine and other analogues released by synthetic drugs. It literally gets overwhelmed, confused, and believes that it needs the drugs to survive. The Beast is this new, perverted survival drive.
I can see how some people try and re-created that rush with other activities, but they are never going to get to the same kick out of it that they would with drugs. The amount of Dopamine released by eating cake simply can't approach the amounts released by the ingestion of alcohol, or other, more potent drugs. I drink a lot of coffee when I feel down, and it seems to help in the short term, but it is nowhere near as strong as say, whiskey.
But have now worked my way around the AVRT stuff on here.
There are is some brilliant insights and information on the long AVRT discussion threads
This, right here below, in bold is what I accept that I never accepted before. There is no high, to match the artificial high of drink/drugs (same thing drink is a drug).
This time, I do not want that high.
I do not know if there will be a time when IT goes looking for ITs high. But I never want it again. Not just I don't want alcohol again, I don't want the HIGH
I pulled this from a post in the very first AVRT discussion thread
Everyone has a Limbic system, which responds to pleasure in order to reinforce behaviors, yes. Even eating or drinking water releases some amount of Dopamine so that you keep doing it. However, the Limbic simply was not designed to deal with the obscene amount of Dopamine and other analogues released by synthetic drugs. It literally gets overwhelmed, confused, and believes that it needs the drugs to survive. The Beast is this new, perverted survival drive.
I can see how some people try and re-created that rush with other activities, but they are never going to get to the same kick out of it that they would with drugs. The amount of Dopamine released by eating cake simply can't approach the amounts released by the ingestion of alcohol, or other, more potent drugs. I drink a lot of coffee when I feel down, and it seems to help in the short term, but it is nowhere near as strong as say, whiskey.
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And I think this is why I am having difficulites applying AVRT to smoking. There is no "high" per se in smoking for me anymore. Just removal of the uncomfortable withdrawals that start a short time after the last cigarette.
Having read Alan Carr's book, I understand where the illusion that a smoke will relieve stress comes from, I no longer do believe it relieves stress (other than the stress caused by falling nicotine levels)
I don't know why I am having more trouble with using AVRT for smoking than with drinking.
Having read Alan Carr's book, I understand where the illusion that a smoke will relieve stress comes from, I no longer do believe it relieves stress (other than the stress caused by falling nicotine levels)
I don't know why I am having more trouble with using AVRT for smoking than with drinking.
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MP, I don't know.
Nicotine addiction is not affecting my life in the same way as alcohol, cocaine, lsd, mdma, banana skins etc
For me, I "use" AVRT to recognise the beast's desire of ALL those mind altering chemicals to escape from reality and ME, with all my failings and insecurity and artificial desire.
I'm addicted to nicotine as well, but vaping is a cheap distraction, almost like smoking a pipe, but without the 10000000000000 harmful sh1t.
I'll NEVER DRINK AGAIN, and that will do for now.
Nicotine addiction is not affecting my life in the same way as alcohol, cocaine, lsd, mdma, banana skins etc
For me, I "use" AVRT to recognise the beast's desire of ALL those mind altering chemicals to escape from reality and ME, with all my failings and insecurity and artificial desire.
I'm addicted to nicotine as well, but vaping is a cheap distraction, almost like smoking a pipe, but without the 10000000000000 harmful sh1t.
I'll NEVER DRINK AGAIN, and that will do for now.
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Yeah, banana skins are next on my list, those buggers!
Getting rid of alcohol isn't enough for me. Smoking kills more drinkers than drinking does. I can't afford a good vape and juice (I buy "duty free" baccy). I can't afford the initial outlay, it's more than half a weeks dole in one shot.
I caved an smoked like a smoking mad idijit last night. Now I've f*cked my smoking BP up.
I didn't stick to Alan Carrs advice
Getting rid of alcohol isn't enough for me. Smoking kills more drinkers than drinking does. I can't afford a good vape and juice (I buy "duty free" baccy). I can't afford the initial outlay, it's more than half a weeks dole in one shot.
I caved an smoked like a smoking mad idijit last night. Now I've f*cked my smoking BP up.
I didn't stick to Alan Carrs advice
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Basically theres only one way to give anything up. Stop doing it haha
I've just got to get in the mindset with smoking, an urge is an urge, it won't last forever. The physical urges when you first give something up are strongest but last a few days. So does the withdrawals . The mental urges after that are not as overwhelming.
And even though you think it will at the time, ignoring an urge won't kill you.
I've read loads of "recovery" books and memoirs and when it comes to the bones of it,thats the only way to give up anything. And why RR is so basic, cos that's what it's based on, how the millions of people who kicked drink/drugs alone gave up. And the vast majority of people do give up drinking and smoking alone,
Sorry, me talking to myself.
I've just got to get in the mindset with smoking, an urge is an urge, it won't last forever. The physical urges when you first give something up are strongest but last a few days. So does the withdrawals . The mental urges after that are not as overwhelming.
And even though you think it will at the time, ignoring an urge won't kill you.
I've read loads of "recovery" books and memoirs and when it comes to the bones of it,thats the only way to give up anything. And why RR is so basic, cos that's what it's based on, how the millions of people who kicked drink/drugs alone gave up. And the vast majority of people do give up drinking and smoking alone,
Sorry, me talking to myself.
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I found that my nicotine cravings didn't become intense, but the frequency dropped off rapidly.
Once you get over the hump you can apply the AVRT principles. You are no longer a smoker. Period. Just like you are no longer a drinker.
People say the consequences from smoking aren't nearly as dire as those from drinking and drugs. I think dying of cancer or a heart attack are pretty dire consequences. They're just not as immediate and easy to ignore as they take a long time to show themselves.
I like what you said about not wanting the high from drinking and/or drugs. That's where I am now. Remembering the alcohol buzz as silly at best and horrible at worst. Even when it was "fun" it was no big thang. Mindful presence is so much better! Sure it was fun dancing my ass off while rolling balls at a rave, but again...silly and can lead to massive depression afterwards.
Just give up the nicotine, and DON'T make the mistake of vaping as a cure. It's still nicotine. And although you don't get "high" on nicotine, you definitely get altered in some way...and "fuzzy." Plus it just feels dirty. I have almost no friends that smoke anymore. They've either quit or died.
Once you get over the hump you can apply the AVRT principles. You are no longer a smoker. Period. Just like you are no longer a drinker.
People say the consequences from smoking aren't nearly as dire as those from drinking and drugs. I think dying of cancer or a heart attack are pretty dire consequences. They're just not as immediate and easy to ignore as they take a long time to show themselves.
I like what you said about not wanting the high from drinking and/or drugs. That's where I am now. Remembering the alcohol buzz as silly at best and horrible at worst. Even when it was "fun" it was no big thang. Mindful presence is so much better! Sure it was fun dancing my ass off while rolling balls at a rave, but again...silly and can lead to massive depression afterwards.
Just give up the nicotine, and DON'T make the mistake of vaping as a cure. It's still nicotine. And although you don't get "high" on nicotine, you definitely get altered in some way...and "fuzzy." Plus it just feels dirty. I have almost no friends that smoke anymore. They've either quit or died.
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Mindful man, yes, totally agree with you. Infact I read on Smart Recovery that smoking kills more drinkers than drinking does!
And Alan Carr, he was sooo against the nicotine replacement industry. Just a con.
And yes, it does alter the brain, when I worked in mental health, we had to alter the doses of medication in people who gave up smoking.
And yes, can't even see what I saw in that high of alcohol now. Pointless. And as alcohol is a depressant and nicotine a stimulant, that is how I got hooked so heavily on fags I think. Oh yeah, and being drunk and forgetting I'd just had one!
Oh yeah and I haven't f*cked up my BP, page 178 of TNC, what to reassess if you relapse (although relapse is not exactly acceptable in RR). I didn't detach from IT properly the first time.
Everyone my age and still smoking are dropping like flies, I haven't got time to waste messing about.
I think I had a breakthrough this morning, baccy is in the bin covered in bleach.
Thanks so much for this post
PS All is not lost, I just had to reassess my BP not throw it. I didn't detach properly the first time.
And Alan Carr, he was sooo against the nicotine replacement industry. Just a con.
And yes, it does alter the brain, when I worked in mental health, we had to alter the doses of medication in people who gave up smoking.
And yes, can't even see what I saw in that high of alcohol now. Pointless. And as alcohol is a depressant and nicotine a stimulant, that is how I got hooked so heavily on fags I think. Oh yeah, and being drunk and forgetting I'd just had one!
Oh yeah and I haven't f*cked up my BP, page 178 of TNC, what to reassess if you relapse (although relapse is not exactly acceptable in RR). I didn't detach from IT properly the first time.
Everyone my age and still smoking are dropping like flies, I haven't got time to waste messing about.
I think I had a breakthrough this morning, baccy is in the bin covered in bleach.
Thanks so much for this post
PS All is not lost, I just had to reassess my BP not throw it. I didn't detach properly the first time.
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Originally Posted by mandypandy 
And I think this is why I am having difficulites applying AVRT to smoking. There is no "high" per se in smoking for me anymore. Just removal of the uncomfortable withdrawals that start a short time after the last cigarette.
Having read Alan Carr's book, I understand where the illusion that a smoke will relieve stress comes from, I no longer do believe it relieves stress (other than the stress caused by falling nicotine levels)
I don't know why I am having more trouble with using AVRT for smoking than with drinking.
Having read Alan Carr's book, I understand where the illusion that a smoke will relieve stress comes from, I no longer do believe it relieves stress (other than the stress caused by falling nicotine levels)
I don't know why I am having more trouble with using AVRT for smoking than with drinking.
I wonder if it's because cigarettes are not OBVIOUSLY ruining our lives. They may well kill us, but I'm not going to lose my job or family next week if I smoke.
Have you set a date to quit? If you'd like, we could agree a date together and give each other support.
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Hi reckless, I already threw my baccy in the bin this morning, and then some bleach on top of it. Smoky Beast was not happy at all. My quit date was meant to have been a few days ago haha.
Yes, it's easy to brush the dire consequences of smoking under the carpet, too easy
I wrote on the thread "plod" that I started in newcomers when I quit drinking, about this very problem I was having, using AVRT for smoking v drinking (it has worked very well for my drinking)
But, I came to the conclusion, although smoking doesn't give the pleasurable high drink does. It does take away the nicotine withdrawals that start soon after you put your last smoke out. The relief of that, I think, could be equated to pleasure, as in the discomfort has gone.
I can't get the bleach off my baccy now (don't think the Beast hasn't regretted me doing that 1,000 times already). But keep in touch when you quit for support
Yes, it's easy to brush the dire consequences of smoking under the carpet, too easy
I wrote on the thread "plod" that I started in newcomers when I quit drinking, about this very problem I was having, using AVRT for smoking v drinking (it has worked very well for my drinking)
But, I came to the conclusion, although smoking doesn't give the pleasurable high drink does. It does take away the nicotine withdrawals that start soon after you put your last smoke out. The relief of that, I think, could be equated to pleasure, as in the discomfort has gone.
I can't get the bleach off my baccy now (don't think the Beast hasn't regretted me doing that 1,000 times already). But keep in touch when you quit for support
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Originally Posted by mandypandy
Hi reckless, I already threw my baccy in the bin this morning, and then some bleach on top of it. Smoky Beast was not happy at all. My quit date was meant to have been a few days ago haha.
Yes, it's easy to brush the dire consequences of smoking under the carpet, too easy
I wrote on the thread "plod" that I started in newcomers when I quit drinking, about this very problem I was having, using AVRT for smoking v drinking (it has worked very well for my drinking)
But, I came to the conclusion, although smoking doesn't give the pleasurable high drink does. It does take away the nicotine withdrawals that start soon after you put your last smoke out. The relief of that, I think, could be equated to pleasure, as in the discomfort has gone.
I can't get the bleach off my baccy now (don't think the Beast hasn't regretted me doing that 1,000 times already). But keep in touch when you quit for support
Yes, it's easy to brush the dire consequences of smoking under the carpet, too easy
I wrote on the thread "plod" that I started in newcomers when I quit drinking, about this very problem I was having, using AVRT for smoking v drinking (it has worked very well for my drinking)
But, I came to the conclusion, although smoking doesn't give the pleasurable high drink does. It does take away the nicotine withdrawals that start soon after you put your last smoke out. The relief of that, I think, could be equated to pleasure, as in the discomfort has gone.
I can't get the bleach off my baccy now (don't think the Beast hasn't regretted me doing that 1,000 times already). But keep in touch when you quit for support
Baccy bleach eh? That's an impressive level of both commitment and alliteration!
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Originally Posted by mandypandy
...I can't afford a good vape and juice (I buy "duty free" baccy). I can't afford the initial outlay, it's more than half a weeks dole in one shot.
I caved an smoked like a smoking mad idijit last night. Now I've f*cked my smoking BP up. ...
I caved an smoked like a smoking mad idijit last night. Now I've f*cked my smoking BP up. ...
Also, since it is impossible to lie to yourself, you must know you are only toying and experimenting with the IDEA of a Big Plan for nicotine. This toying around is not unusual. It is in the nature of how the AV tries to remain in control by keeping you from TRULY making a Big Plan by keeping you from recognizing IT in your thoughts and feelings. The Big Plan is a profound personal choice - an experience that cannot be retracted.
For example, before you even mention the Big Plan you say "(I buy "duty free" baccy)". You buy? You didn't USED TO buy? If you really had a Big Plan the very IDEA of "I buy baccy" would sound very, very wrong to yourself. But it didn't. You clearly still have plans to smoke some more.
As you go through the moments just before you had more to smoke, you will recall how the alleged Big Plan you previously made was a half baked idea to begin with. Otherwise you would have looked at the baccy and instead of putting it in your mouth and lighting up, you would have put it back in the package and set it aside to be used for a future shifting exercise. Right?
So, when you decide to really use AVRT for nicotine, it can provide you an ironclad recovery that your lungs, heart, and arteries will deeply thank you for.
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Originally Posted by mandypandy
I can't get the bleach off my baccy now (don't think the Beast hasn't regretted me doing that 1,000 times already). But keep in touch when you quit for support
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Ok, I admit it, I don't feel the same conviction and certainty with the baccy as I did with the drink. I DO want to give up the baccy. I don't know why I am frucking around like this. I want to give it up as much as I wanted to give the drink up. But with the drink there was none of this messing about.
My smoking AV is running circles around me, and I am blind to it half the time, never mind recognizing it!
My smoking AV is running circles around me, and I am blind to it half the time, never mind recognizing it!
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Can I say in my defence though. I do not NEED the support of others to quit anything. I know it is a one-(wo)man game.
I know what needs to be done, and I haven't had a smoke since I got rid of the baccy.
No matter what the urges and physical discomfort, I won't buy more.
What more can I do?
I did try the quit smoking website, but it was a Beasts tea-party. "Quitting is a journey".."Quitting is a process"...delaying tactics. Beast to Beast conversations. So that was that with that!
No, quitting isn't a process, or a journey, making a decision to stop, stopping it and sticking to it is quitting. And since I got rid of the baccy, that's what I have done and will continue doing. Even though I have done a lot of frucking about.
I know what needs to be done, and I haven't had a smoke since I got rid of the baccy.
No matter what the urges and physical discomfort, I won't buy more.
What more can I do?
I did try the quit smoking website, but it was a Beasts tea-party. "Quitting is a journey".."Quitting is a process"...delaying tactics. Beast to Beast conversations. So that was that with that!
No, quitting isn't a process, or a journey, making a decision to stop, stopping it and sticking to it is quitting. And since I got rid of the baccy, that's what I have done and will continue doing. Even though I have done a lot of frucking about.
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