~month sober before kicked
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
~month sober before kicked
Hi All,
My mother was sober for nearly 12 years before she relapsed. My brother and I were taken away when I was 5 years old, spent 2 years in foster care before being adopted. This was nearly 23 years ago. When my little sister was born, she started working towards sober living. In order to shorten this post I'm going bullet point some major time events.
Fast-forward to this week- I receive a panicked call from her at 2:00am in the morning, insisting that I check that my sister is still in bed. After reassuring her that she's still in bed, she goes on to tell me that she had a cat to this man's house, his garage was covered in plastic, and that she was sure that he had my sister. She starts banging on his door, yelling for him to give her kid back. She then goes on to tell me that the man responded with, "Hey crazy lady, I have your kid". Cops show up, brings her back to program, which is when she decided to call me. The entire time she keeps repeating that she's not crazy, that I know she's not crazy, and that they are insisting that she get assessed at the hospital. I calm her down, let her know that no one is saying she's crazy, and that my sister is safe. The next day, she calls me after going to the hospital, and tells me that they basically dismissed it as being caused by her quitting smoking cold-turkey. Then she goes on to talk about 2am incident, we walk through it, but she doesn't seem to be fully making sense. She kept repeating that she didn't want to say out loud what she thought had happened, because it would make it come true. However, we have a good conversation, let her know that even if she had been diagnosed with a mental disorder, that it doesn't make us love her any less or think differently of her. The next morning, I get a voicemail from a random number, which turns out to be my mother, she lets me know that she was kicked out for banging on a lady's door even though she apologized. I call the program, speak to one of staff that was on shift, and she lets me know that they tried to get her to go back to the hospital to get assessed by a psychiatrist, as she seemed to be delusional and confrontational with other people. That my mother had been convinced that conversations that had not occurred had occurred. One thing to note is, mental health issues run deep on both sides of the family.
Okay, now that you have some backstory, here's where I'm struggling... I know I need to protect my loved ones and myself, and especially after the emotional turmoil that she has caused my sister. If it weren't for the possible mental health issues, I wouldn't have an issue just telling her that she's going to have to figure it out, because that's our deal. As long as she's in program, I'll support her emotionally and financially (Nothing extreme, just basic necessities + cigarettes), but I'm having difficulty when you add delusional thinking into the mix. I mean, allowing her back into the house is off-limits, but I'm not sure what to do overall...
My mother was sober for nearly 12 years before she relapsed. My brother and I were taken away when I was 5 years old, spent 2 years in foster care before being adopted. This was nearly 23 years ago. When my little sister was born, she started working towards sober living. In order to shorten this post I'm going bullet point some major time events.
- April- 12 year old sister comes to visit for spring break
- April-Mother loses job, sister is going to stay while we pack up the apartment
- May-Mother moves in with wife and I
- June-Mother steals thousands of dollars via racking credit card debt in my name, pawning our stuff
- August-Mother comes to me and tells me that she started using Meth almost a year prior
- August: Mother continues to steal, so we end up having to ask her to leave
- January 26th: Mother gets into second drug rehab center
Fast-forward to this week- I receive a panicked call from her at 2:00am in the morning, insisting that I check that my sister is still in bed. After reassuring her that she's still in bed, she goes on to tell me that she had a cat to this man's house, his garage was covered in plastic, and that she was sure that he had my sister. She starts banging on his door, yelling for him to give her kid back. She then goes on to tell me that the man responded with, "Hey crazy lady, I have your kid". Cops show up, brings her back to program, which is when she decided to call me. The entire time she keeps repeating that she's not crazy, that I know she's not crazy, and that they are insisting that she get assessed at the hospital. I calm her down, let her know that no one is saying she's crazy, and that my sister is safe. The next day, she calls me after going to the hospital, and tells me that they basically dismissed it as being caused by her quitting smoking cold-turkey. Then she goes on to talk about 2am incident, we walk through it, but she doesn't seem to be fully making sense. She kept repeating that she didn't want to say out loud what she thought had happened, because it would make it come true. However, we have a good conversation, let her know that even if she had been diagnosed with a mental disorder, that it doesn't make us love her any less or think differently of her. The next morning, I get a voicemail from a random number, which turns out to be my mother, she lets me know that she was kicked out for banging on a lady's door even though she apologized. I call the program, speak to one of staff that was on shift, and she lets me know that they tried to get her to go back to the hospital to get assessed by a psychiatrist, as she seemed to be delusional and confrontational with other people. That my mother had been convinced that conversations that had not occurred had occurred. One thing to note is, mental health issues run deep on both sides of the family.
Okay, now that you have some backstory, here's where I'm struggling... I know I need to protect my loved ones and myself, and especially after the emotional turmoil that she has caused my sister. If it weren't for the possible mental health issues, I wouldn't have an issue just telling her that she's going to have to figure it out, because that's our deal. As long as she's in program, I'll support her emotionally and financially (Nothing extreme, just basic necessities + cigarettes), but I'm having difficulty when you add delusional thinking into the mix. I mean, allowing her back into the house is off-limits, but I'm not sure what to do overall...
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
No advice... just hugs.
I'm so confused as to how our society deals with drug abuse. If someone slit their wrists or held a gun to their head, they would be involuntarily detained. They would be forced to get help. But so often with drug abuse (which in a sense IS holding a gun to your head) they just let them go. They figure... "Oh, well it's just the drugs causing them to act this way. Once they get off the drugs they'll be fine." As if it's that easy.
So sorry you're going through this. I've been reading about a certain type of meth that's known to cause psychosis. Meth in itself is bad enough, but this new strain is really so terrible.
Really do hope you can find peace soon. Please don't be afraid to establish boundaries. Remember that enabling is the worst thing you can do right now. Get strong.
Many blessings
I'm so confused as to how our society deals with drug abuse. If someone slit their wrists or held a gun to their head, they would be involuntarily detained. They would be forced to get help. But so often with drug abuse (which in a sense IS holding a gun to your head) they just let them go. They figure... "Oh, well it's just the drugs causing them to act this way. Once they get off the drugs they'll be fine." As if it's that easy.
So sorry you're going through this. I've been reading about a certain type of meth that's known to cause psychosis. Meth in itself is bad enough, but this new strain is really so terrible.
Really do hope you can find peace soon. Please don't be afraid to establish boundaries. Remember that enabling is the worst thing you can do right now. Get strong.
Many blessings
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
I just realized this is one of many times that I've said I have no advice to offer, but then go ahead and offer advice anyway. I'm sorry, I just can't help myself. I know better, but I've got opinions, know what I mean?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Figured I'd go ahead and update once I processed it. The conversation with mom did not go well. Unfortunately, a lot of my fears were, in my eyes, confirmed once we sat down and spoke with her. I'm not sure how exactly to explain it, but her language did not match her body language. It seemed obvious to me that she was putting a lot of effort into maintaining a positive persona, but was struggling to keep it going. However, there were several red-flags during the conversation as well.
At about midnight, she called and left a voicemail basically saying that I left her out in the cold, that she's still clean, and that one day I'll go through it too.
Do I feel awful that she had to spend the night outside, in the cold? Absolutely, but it also bothers me that there are thousands in my area who are sleeping in that weather. I'm not sure if this is the healthiest way to handle it, but it's what helps me through it: Just because we have the ability to help does not always mean we should, sometimes the best way to help is to let her stumble.
I simply can't continue to be her safety net...if you take us out of the picture, what would she do? Unfortunately, she would have spent the night out in the cold...
Thoughts? Suggestions? Please feel free to point out any fallacies in thinking.
- She kept trying to show us "evidence" that she's clean and sober.
- A book from a meeting she recently attended
- Within the first minute of the conversation she mentioned wanting the debit card (The only check being deposited in there is Child Support for my sister).
- Before she went into rehab, she refused to give up control of the child support money, even though we had been supporting my sister for over 6 months, as well as paying the credit card debt she racked up in my name.
- The child support money had been a pretty big trigger in the past, leading to her not only threatening to take my sister four times, but actually doing so twice.
- So when she went into rehab, she asked if I would support her financially, to which I agreed, but only if she surrendered control of the child support money.
- She kept insisting that she was kicked out of rehab for things that were out of her control.
- She didn't know that I had actually spoken to staff at her rehab earlier that day.
- The reason that she had been discharged was due to her continually breaking the rules, disrupting the neighbors, and refusing to see a medical professional regarding her delusional thoughts.
- She had actually been discharged from their main program a week prior, but they agreed to give her a second chance at their smaller sister program.
- She kept hinting at that my wife and I were keeping my sister from her.
- This had continually been an issue while she was actively using.
- However, we weren't actually keeping my sister from her. My sister had become scared of her and did not want any contact with her, so I asked my mom to respect that.
- At one point, she cut my wife off and said that she wanted to hear from me.
- She has been convinced that the choices being made weren't coming from me, but from my wife.
- What she doesn't know is, before yesterday, I told my wife from the very beginning to not stress over it and let my uncle and I handle it.
- When I told her that living in our home was not an option, she attempted to guilt me by saying, "You are going to let your own mom sleep outside in the cold".
- As soon as I told her that the child support money was not her money to use, she quickly blew up and threatened to call the cops on us.
- She kept "reminding" me that she still had custody of my sister, that it wasn't up to me, and that if I didn't hand it over she would have the cops come out.
- To which, I got up and told her that I would not continue this conversation while she is in this state.
- What she doesn't know is, we had actually been debating buying her a motel room for the night, but once she blew up I knew that doing so wouldn't actually help her.
At about midnight, she called and left a voicemail basically saying that I left her out in the cold, that she's still clean, and that one day I'll go through it too.
Do I feel awful that she had to spend the night outside, in the cold? Absolutely, but it also bothers me that there are thousands in my area who are sleeping in that weather. I'm not sure if this is the healthiest way to handle it, but it's what helps me through it: Just because we have the ability to help does not always mean we should, sometimes the best way to help is to let her stumble.
I simply can't continue to be her safety net...if you take us out of the picture, what would she do? Unfortunately, she would have spent the night out in the cold...
Thoughts? Suggestions? Please feel free to point out any fallacies in thinking.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 471
I have such compassion for your plight.
I have had similar experiences with my mother in law and niece. Sadly, if someone can't/won't stay sober - and especially once they become delusional, all you can do is protect yourself and direct them to help (if they'll go).
I know how very sad it is to watch people you love and care for self-destruct. It killed my mother in law and my niece still struggles. When I second guess myself about what I did or failed to do, I realize that I did everything I could have and probably more than I should have to save them. The only time there was progress was when they wanted it for themselves more than I wanted sobriety for them.
But in the end, if someone is going to heal, they need to participate and cooperate in the process. Otherwise everyone suffers and no-one gets better.
I don't like to give advice, but I have learned that at the very least, it is important not to do anything that will harm others or put them in danger in response to someone who is either mentally ill or addicted (or both). When that occurs, more people can get hurt than just the ill person.
I don't know if this helps, but I send all the love and compassion I have and hope you find a path that even if it is hard, you find peace doing.
I have had similar experiences with my mother in law and niece. Sadly, if someone can't/won't stay sober - and especially once they become delusional, all you can do is protect yourself and direct them to help (if they'll go).
I know how very sad it is to watch people you love and care for self-destruct. It killed my mother in law and my niece still struggles. When I second guess myself about what I did or failed to do, I realize that I did everything I could have and probably more than I should have to save them. The only time there was progress was when they wanted it for themselves more than I wanted sobriety for them.
But in the end, if someone is going to heal, they need to participate and cooperate in the process. Otherwise everyone suffers and no-one gets better.
I don't like to give advice, but I have learned that at the very least, it is important not to do anything that will harm others or put them in danger in response to someone who is either mentally ill or addicted (or both). When that occurs, more people can get hurt than just the ill person.
I don't know if this helps, but I send all the love and compassion I have and hope you find a path that even if it is hard, you find peace doing.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Troubledone 
I have such compassion for your plight.
I have had similar experiences with my mother in law and niece. Sadly, if someone can't/won't stay sober - and especially once they become delusional, all you can do is protect yourself and direct them to help (if they'll go).
I know how very sad it is to watch people you love and care for self-destruct. It killed my mother in law and my niece still struggles. When I second guess myself about what I did or failed to do, I realize that I did everything I could have and probably more than I should have to save them. The only time there was progress was when they wanted it for themselves more than I wanted sobriety for them.
But in the end, if someone is going to heal, they need to participate and cooperate in the process. Otherwise everyone suffers and no-one gets better.
I don't like to give advice, but I have learned that at the very least, it is important not to do anything that will harm others or put them in danger in response to someone who is either mentally ill or addicted (or both). When that occurs, more people can get hurt than just the ill person.
I don't know if this helps, but I send all the love and compassion I have and hope you find a path that even if it is hard, you find peace doing.
I have had similar experiences with my mother in law and niece. Sadly, if someone can't/won't stay sober - and especially once they become delusional, all you can do is protect yourself and direct them to help (if they'll go).
I know how very sad it is to watch people you love and care for self-destruct. It killed my mother in law and my niece still struggles. When I second guess myself about what I did or failed to do, I realize that I did everything I could have and probably more than I should have to save them. The only time there was progress was when they wanted it for themselves more than I wanted sobriety for them.
But in the end, if someone is going to heal, they need to participate and cooperate in the process. Otherwise everyone suffers and no-one gets better.
I don't like to give advice, but I have learned that at the very least, it is important not to do anything that will harm others or put them in danger in response to someone who is either mentally ill or addicted (or both). When that occurs, more people can get hurt than just the ill person.
I don't know if this helps, but I send all the love and compassion I have and hope you find a path that even if it is hard, you find peace doing.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: NORTHFIELD
Posts: 188
I'm so sorry that you find yourself here, in this position, with your mom.
I guess I am wondering, if it is mental illness or if it is meth (or both).
I know you said mental health issues run in the family. But meth is notorious for it. And the meth psychosis can last (or come on) up to 18 months after last use. Did you see signs of mental issues before the drug use?
My stepson had meth psychosis, the last episode, we were so sure he used. He swore he hadn't. We brought him to the hospital, tested him and they said he hadn't used, but being in a car with someone smoking it was enough to throw him in psychosis (?) And it was bad. Really really bad.
One of the problems with psychosis is that the caretaker ends up (a lot of times) being the target of the delusions. And it gets unsafe. Fast.
It sounds as if she could still be using, with the money issue, etc.
I don't have any answers, but here is what I do know, you have to keep yourself and sister safe (It sounds like you are doing amazing by your sister!) I think you are doing all the right things. I just want you to know that as much as it sucks, you aren't the only one walking this road. Make SURE to take care of you, first.
I guess I am wondering, if it is mental illness or if it is meth (or both).
I know you said mental health issues run in the family. But meth is notorious for it. And the meth psychosis can last (or come on) up to 18 months after last use. Did you see signs of mental issues before the drug use?
My stepson had meth psychosis, the last episode, we were so sure he used. He swore he hadn't. We brought him to the hospital, tested him and they said he hadn't used, but being in a car with someone smoking it was enough to throw him in psychosis (?) And it was bad. Really really bad.
One of the problems with psychosis is that the caretaker ends up (a lot of times) being the target of the delusions. And it gets unsafe. Fast.
It sounds as if she could still be using, with the money issue, etc.
I don't have any answers, but here is what I do know, you have to keep yourself and sister safe (It sounds like you are doing amazing by your sister!) I think you are doing all the right things. I just want you to know that as much as it sucks, you aren't the only one walking this road. Make SURE to take care of you, first.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Well, it sounds like they would take her back and that they wanted to help her. Tell her that if she wants a life with you guys, she has to get the help she needs, to go back, and to accept whatever they recommend.
Keep you and your poor sister safe. Do what you need to do to get custody of her.
Keep you and your poor sister safe. Do what you need to do to get custody of her.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
Thank you everyone who has offered words of encouragement and advice, I simply cannot express how much it has helped. Figured I'd go ahead and update everyone as well.
Update: Okay, so I got a call from a social worker at a local hospital regarding my mom. She's safe, on a 72 hour hold, and will likely continue to be there the rest of the week. He'll call me tomorrow with an official diagnosis, but it definitely sounds like there's some mental health issues going on. Both he and my mom confirmed the following (I spoke to her briefly on the phone): She decided to take off all of her clothes and walk down the street naked, in her own words, "I took off all of my clothes and walked down the street naked, because I didn't want anyone to be able to judge me". She couldn't really explain how taking off her clothes made it so people couldn't judge her, but she's convinced that it worked. She also made some other disturbing remarks about how she keeps seeing my sister dead in the hospital she's in. The social worker did mention that they tested her and she tested negative for drugs, but that her delusional thinking is concerning. The good news is they are trying to find somewhere to place her, where she can get the help she needs and start working towards becoming stable. Realistically this doesn't change anything for me, she's still highly unstable and stability does not happen quickly, so I'm definitely going to start pursuing guardianship.
Update: Okay, so I got a call from a social worker at a local hospital regarding my mom. She's safe, on a 72 hour hold, and will likely continue to be there the rest of the week. He'll call me tomorrow with an official diagnosis, but it definitely sounds like there's some mental health issues going on. Both he and my mom confirmed the following (I spoke to her briefly on the phone): She decided to take off all of her clothes and walk down the street naked, in her own words, "I took off all of my clothes and walked down the street naked, because I didn't want anyone to be able to judge me". She couldn't really explain how taking off her clothes made it so people couldn't judge her, but she's convinced that it worked. She also made some other disturbing remarks about how she keeps seeing my sister dead in the hospital she's in. The social worker did mention that they tested her and she tested negative for drugs, but that her delusional thinking is concerning. The good news is they are trying to find somewhere to place her, where she can get the help she needs and start working towards becoming stable. Realistically this doesn't change anything for me, she's still highly unstable and stability does not happen quickly, so I'm definitely going to start pursuing guardianship.
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