Should I stop allowing supervised visitation with my STBXAH?
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Should I stop allowing supervised visitation with my STBXAH?
My kids (3 y/o son & 10 month old twin boys) have been having supervised visits with their Dad every Wed & every other weekend (his mom supervises). Some of those visits haven’t happened for various reasons. I feel like his mom has really been the one pushing for the visits & if she wouldn’t be around, he wouldn’t ask to see them.
Earlier this week my STBXAH ordered a copy of a credit card...I am the account holder & he is a user. Got the account a few years back to pay for his legal fees when he didn’t have good credit. I have been paying the bill from his checking account. We have yet to sign a divorce decree but he has verbally agreed to pay the bill. When I learned he ordered a new card & pin to get cash out from it, I cancelled the card...because technically I am still responsible & there is nothing signed yet that he agreed to pay the bill.
After dropping my kids off at his house today (usually his mom picks them up), he called shortly after I left threatening to beat my ass if I paid the bill from his account again & irate about me canceling the card. Shortly after his mom texted me that he left very angry & told me not to go home (i’m assuming she was worried he was going to come to my place). Shortly after he went back home & had calmed down. Who knows what my kids witnessed him saying or doing. I am not letting them stay overnight bc I don’t feel good about the situation.
His behavior says to me that he is actively using. He passed a UDS a few weeks ago, I asked for one this past Monday & he never did it. I am asking for hair testing in our decree. I agreed to supervised visits but now I feel like he should not be in my kids’ lives until he can get treatment & get better. I would appreciate any advice if it is best for my kids to not have their Dad in their lives if he is not in recovery. The babies won’t know better but my oldest will be heartbroken if he can’t see him.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Earlier this week my STBXAH ordered a copy of a credit card...I am the account holder & he is a user. Got the account a few years back to pay for his legal fees when he didn’t have good credit. I have been paying the bill from his checking account. We have yet to sign a divorce decree but he has verbally agreed to pay the bill. When I learned he ordered a new card & pin to get cash out from it, I cancelled the card...because technically I am still responsible & there is nothing signed yet that he agreed to pay the bill.
After dropping my kids off at his house today (usually his mom picks them up), he called shortly after I left threatening to beat my ass if I paid the bill from his account again & irate about me canceling the card. Shortly after his mom texted me that he left very angry & told me not to go home (i’m assuming she was worried he was going to come to my place). Shortly after he went back home & had calmed down. Who knows what my kids witnessed him saying or doing. I am not letting them stay overnight bc I don’t feel good about the situation.
His behavior says to me that he is actively using. He passed a UDS a few weeks ago, I asked for one this past Monday & he never did it. I am asking for hair testing in our decree. I agreed to supervised visits but now I feel like he should not be in my kids’ lives until he can get treatment & get better. I would appreciate any advice if it is best for my kids to not have their Dad in their lives if he is not in recovery. The babies won’t know better but my oldest will be heartbroken if he can’t see him.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
This sounds like restraining order material to me.
I hope you are gathering evidence and documenting all of this.
Unfortunately, my situation has been that ex gets supervised visitation regardless of whether or not he can pass a drug test. He is SUPPOSED to be denied visits if he SHOWS UP high, which I can personally tell he is. However, it's up to the person who facilitates the visits to make that call, and he cannot tell and does not test.
But I would definitely push for professional supervision if I were you. Mom might be playing nice right now, but that could change in a heartbeat. Denial runs REALLY deep with moms.
Blessings
I hope you are gathering evidence and documenting all of this.
Unfortunately, my situation has been that ex gets supervised visitation regardless of whether or not he can pass a drug test. He is SUPPOSED to be denied visits if he SHOWS UP high, which I can personally tell he is. However, it's up to the person who facilitates the visits to make that call, and he cannot tell and does not test.
But I would definitely push for professional supervision if I were you. Mom might be playing nice right now, but that could change in a heartbeat. Denial runs REALLY deep with moms.
Blessings
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
My son's ex, the mother of his son, 6 years old at the time, stopped allowing my son any visitation (I was usually but not manditarily present) with the boy because he was not consistent and often didn't show and this caused a lot of emotional pain for the boy.
Not allowing him to have the child meant not allowing me either because my son and I were close and she didn't trust either of us (I was completely trustworthy, my son was not).
This mean that I lost my grandson and it hurt...but I completely agreed with her decision and what mattered most was the boy.
That's how it worked for me, no courts had to be involved, and I wish it could work like that for everyone.
You are doing the right thing, you must be the voice of the children and protect them at all costs.
Your ex's mother, hopefully, will understand why you are doing this. You ex will probably cause trouble no matter what you do, so stick with the plan and keep doing the "right" thing.
Hugs
Not allowing him to have the child meant not allowing me either because my son and I were close and she didn't trust either of us (I was completely trustworthy, my son was not).
This mean that I lost my grandson and it hurt...but I completely agreed with her decision and what mattered most was the boy.
That's how it worked for me, no courts had to be involved, and I wish it could work like that for everyone.
You are doing the right thing, you must be the voice of the children and protect them at all costs.
Your ex's mother, hopefully, will understand why you are doing this. You ex will probably cause trouble no matter what you do, so stick with the plan and keep doing the "right" thing.
Hugs
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I just want to add that there are a lot of mothers (and dads) here who want only what is best for the children. We are not in denial, although some mothers may be, and we support whatever is best for the child.
Because of that, many of the moms here lost their grandchildren, I lost two by 2 different mothers, and the pain of that will always hurt our hearts. Our only son and our only grandchildren we all lost because of that horrible disease of addiction. I know a mom here who helped her daughter-in-law escape with her child...and she never saw her grandchild again. Others here are raising their grandchildren to give them a safe and sober place to live, one dear friend is raising her great grand daughter and doing a wonderful job.
That's not to say all mother's are helpful and loving enough to make their own sacrifice to save the children...but not all mothers are bad or protective of their addicted son either.
Just wanted to put some balance into this. I don't know what the mother of your ex is like. However she is, you are all in my prayers, especially the children.
Because of that, many of the moms here lost their grandchildren, I lost two by 2 different mothers, and the pain of that will always hurt our hearts. Our only son and our only grandchildren we all lost because of that horrible disease of addiction. I know a mom here who helped her daughter-in-law escape with her child...and she never saw her grandchild again. Others here are raising their grandchildren to give them a safe and sober place to live, one dear friend is raising her great grand daughter and doing a wonderful job.
That's not to say all mother's are helpful and loving enough to make their own sacrifice to save the children...but not all mothers are bad or protective of their addicted son either.
Just wanted to put some balance into this. I don't know what the mother of your ex is like. However she is, you are all in my prayers, especially the children.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by Ann 
I just want to add that there are a lot of mothers (and dads) here who want only what is best for the children. We are not in denial, although some mothers may be, and we support whatever is best for the child.
Because of that, many of the moms here lost their grandchildren, I lost two by 2 different mothers, and the pain of that will always hurt our hearts. Our only son and our only grandchildren we all lost because of that horrible disease of addiction. I know a mom here who helped her daughter-in-law escape with her child...and she never saw her grandchild again. Others here are raising their grandchildren to give them a safe and sober place to live, one dear friend is raising her great grand daughter and doing a wonderful job.
That's not to say all mother's are helpful and loving enough to make their own sacrifice to save the children...but not all mothers are bad or protective of their addicted son either.
Just wanted to put some balance into this. I don't know what the mother of your ex is like. However she is, you are all in my prayers, especially the children.
Because of that, many of the moms here lost their grandchildren, I lost two by 2 different mothers, and the pain of that will always hurt our hearts. Our only son and our only grandchildren we all lost because of that horrible disease of addiction. I know a mom here who helped her daughter-in-law escape with her child...and she never saw her grandchild again. Others here are raising their grandchildren to give them a safe and sober place to live, one dear friend is raising her great grand daughter and doing a wonderful job.
That's not to say all mother's are helpful and loving enough to make their own sacrifice to save the children...but not all mothers are bad or protective of their addicted son either.
Just wanted to put some balance into this. I don't know what the mother of your ex is like. However she is, you are all in my prayers, especially the children.
I'm sorry for the hurt you are experiencing and hope you will see your grandkids soon.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Hechosedrugs, I know from your sharing that your story is difficult too and that it was hard when his family rallied to support him when you were the one hurt by all this. 
That's wrong and sad and how it is for some. I was just wanting to show the balance, that addiction hurts the partners, the parents and family and most of all, the children.
Some days I wish everyone we knew had a program to make them wiser and kinder and more empathetic.
That's wrong and sad and how it is for some. I was just wanting to show the balance, that addiction hurts the partners, the parents and family and most of all, the children. Some days I wish everyone we knew had a program to make them wiser and kinder and more empathetic.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Originally Posted by Hechosedrugs
This sounds like restraining order material to me.
I hope you are gathering evidence and documenting all of this.
Unfortunately, my situation has been that ex gets supervised visitation regardless of whether or not he can pass a drug test. He is SUPPOSED to be denied visits if he SHOWS UP high, which I can personally tell he is. However, it's up to the person who facilitates the visits to make that call, and he cannot tell and does not test.
But I would definitely push for professional supervision if I were you. Mom might be playing nice right now, but that could change in a heartbeat. Denial runs REALLY deep with moms.
Blessings
I hope you are gathering evidence and documenting all of this.
Unfortunately, my situation has been that ex gets supervised visitation regardless of whether or not he can pass a drug test. He is SUPPOSED to be denied visits if he SHOWS UP high, which I can personally tell he is. However, it's up to the person who facilitates the visits to make that call, and he cannot tell and does not test.
But I would definitely push for professional supervision if I were you. Mom might be playing nice right now, but that could change in a heartbeat. Denial runs REALLY deep with moms.
Blessings
Thank you so much for your reply. I agree, I think his mom has good intentions but also think she protects & enables her son.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Ann
My son's ex, the mother of his son, 6 years old at the time, stopped allowing my son any visitation (I was usually but not manditarily present) with the boy because he was not consistent and often didn't show and this caused a lot of emotional pain for the boy.
Not allowing him to have the child meant not allowing me either because my son and I were close and she didn't trust either of us (I was completely trustworthy, my son was not).
This mean that I lost my grandson and it hurt...but I completely agreed with her decision and what mattered most was the boy.
That's how it worked for me, no courts had to be involved, and I wish it could work like that for everyone.
You are doing the right thing, you must be the voice of the children and protect them at all costs.
Your ex's mother, hopefully, will understand why you are doing this. You ex will probably cause trouble no matter what you do, so stick with the plan and keep doing the "right" thing.
Hugs
Not allowing him to have the child meant not allowing me either because my son and I were close and she didn't trust either of us (I was completely trustworthy, my son was not).
This mean that I lost my grandson and it hurt...but I completely agreed with her decision and what mattered most was the boy.
That's how it worked for me, no courts had to be involved, and I wish it could work like that for everyone.
You are doing the right thing, you must be the voice of the children and protect them at all costs.
Your ex's mother, hopefully, will understand why you are doing this. You ex will probably cause trouble no matter what you do, so stick with the plan and keep doing the "right" thing.
Hugs
Thank you so much for your reply. I am so sorry for all the pain & loss you have experienced as a result of addiction.
I agree, no matter how nice I try to be or how accommodating I am for him to see the kids, it never fails that he is a complete jerk. I need to figure out what is best & healthiest for my kids & follow through.
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betnp.....please help me out here.....i swear your username has been around awhile, but it says you only have four posts.....have i completely lost my mind????
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
betnp.....please help me out here.....i swear your username has been around awhile, but it says you only have four posts.....have i completely lost my mind????
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Hi B, IMHO, his text is a threat that should be taken seriously. How scary, I've been reflecting a lot on things I considered relatively normal behavior that should have been alarm bells for violence which caused me to react like someone just simply asked me to pass the milk. Please protect yourself, document and submit to the court or police if you can his threat.
I'm also for professional supervised visitations. Once the court moved it this way for me and out of having a family supervise, he stopped going.
GM
I'm also for professional supervised visitations. Once the court moved it this way for me and out of having a family supervise, he stopped going.
GM
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Originally Posted by Gm0824
Hi B, IMHO, his text is a threat that should be taken seriously. How scary, I've been reflecting a lot on things I considered relatively normal behavior that should have been alarm bells for violence which caused me to react like someone just simply asked me to pass the milk. Please protect yourself, document and submit to the court or police if you can his threat.
I'm also for professional supervised visitations. Once the court moved it this way for me and out of having a family supervise, he stopped going.
GM
I'm also for professional supervised visitations. Once the court moved it this way for me and out of having a family supervise, he stopped going.
GM
I agree with professional visitation at this point...my kids still are not shielded from his crazy behaviors with his mom supervising.
Thank you SO much for your reply
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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B ... so proud of you! Getting a temp P.O. was no small feat for me and I am so glad you did it. At some point I felt a shift in my worry of making him mad to doing everything within my power to protect my children. If I ignored threats against me because I was afraid of poking the hornets nest with him did not make for a complete picture in court when I was telling the judge I was afraid for my children's safety with having a family member supervise visitation. I needed to have his threats documented (even if I thought they were small threats) to be able to provide that complete picture of what our lives were like with xah to the court. Which, ultimately led to the court approving the professional supervisor.
Also, FWIW, my family members were the supervisors but are not addiction specialists and however well their intentions were, were not qualified to protect the children from his behaviors.
One thing, and it is extremely hard to do, that helped me was to guard my engery. I feel he was using the visitation as way to still manipulate me, once I became more businesslike in my dealings and documenting everything and having the court address the issues he was causing during them, I stopped giving him my energy. Sounds kind of hokey, but I believe to this day that my codie energy was feeding him and his actions to an extent.
GM
Also, FWIW, my family members were the supervisors but are not addiction specialists and however well their intentions were, were not qualified to protect the children from his behaviors.
One thing, and it is extremely hard to do, that helped me was to guard my engery. I feel he was using the visitation as way to still manipulate me, once I became more businesslike in my dealings and documenting everything and having the court address the issues he was causing during them, I stopped giving him my energy. Sounds kind of hokey, but I believe to this day that my codie energy was feeding him and his actions to an extent.
GM
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Originally Posted by Gm0824
B ... so proud of you! Getting a temp P.O. was no small feat for me and I am so glad you did it. At some point I felt a shift in my worry of making him mad to doing everything within my power to protect my children. If I ignored threats against me because I was afraid of poking the hornets nest with him did not make for a complete picture in court when I was telling the judge I was afraid for my children's safety with having a family member supervise visitation. I needed to have his threats documented (even if I thought they were small threats) to be able to provide that complete picture of what our lives were like with xah to the court. Which, ultimately led to the court approving the professional supervisor.
Also, FWIW, my family members were the supervisors but are not addiction specialists and however well their intentions were, were not qualified to protect the children from his behaviors.
One thing, and it is extremely hard to do, that helped me was to guard my engery. I feel he was using the visitation as way to still manipulate me, once I became more businesslike in my dealings and documenting everything and having the court address the issues he was causing during them, I stopped giving him my energy. Sounds kind of hokey, but I believe to this day that my codie energy was feeding him and his actions to an extent.
GM
Also, FWIW, my family members were the supervisors but are not addiction specialists and however well their intentions were, were not qualified to protect the children from his behaviors.
One thing, and it is extremely hard to do, that helped me was to guard my engery. I feel he was using the visitation as way to still manipulate me, once I became more businesslike in my dealings and documenting everything and having the court address the issues he was causing during them, I stopped giving him my energy. Sounds kind of hokey, but I believe to this day that my codie energy was feeding him and his actions to an extent.
GM
I truly appreciate your replies. I have had feelings of guilt, etc with filing the protective order & deciding that I will fight for a neutral party to supervise visits until my ex can prove he has an extended period of sobriety. But I know those feelings are my co-dependency & that I have to focus on being healthy for myself & my children. And if I feel that my actions are right & with good intent, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. This is not natural for me, but my am working on it.
I also keep telling myself that my ex could take a hair test as requested. But he chooses not to. And because his mom accepts certain behaviors/ abuse from him doesn’t mean I have to.
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You are so right! It felt unnatural for me to go thru all of this to feel safe and protect the children's innocence .... because I had never even asked or expected those things from my qualifier before. I put up with his BS (which now I am honestly flabbergasted at myself for ever believing half of what he said much less going along with it) for so long I think apart of me died and I had to figure out who I was through this process because I never knew myself before I learnt him. I admitted years ago in my first al anon meeting that I wasn't there for myself. I hadn't hit my rock bottom. I was there for the children, as a parent I had hit theirs.
Speaking of hair tests: My A chose to show up full body hairless to court after failing to show for his hair test ... and no, he is not a swimmer. I had convinced myself that this would be the last straw for the judge. It was not. It was, however, another slice of the bread ... pretty soon I had a complete loaf
You should like you are staying strong. Keep making the next right decision for yourself and your children. I know it isn't easy but I know you have it in you!
GM
Speaking of hair tests: My A chose to show up full body hairless to court after failing to show for his hair test ... and no, he is not a swimmer. I had convinced myself that this would be the last straw for the judge. It was not. It was, however, another slice of the bread ... pretty soon I had a complete loaf
You should like you are staying strong. Keep making the next right decision for yourself and your children. I know it isn't easy but I know you have it in you!
GM
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Posts: 635
Originally Posted by Gm0824
You are so right! It felt unnatural for me to go thru all of this to feel safe and protect the children's innocence .... because I had never even asked or expected those things from my qualifier before. I put up with his BS (which now I am honestly flabbergasted at myself for ever believing half of what he said much less going along with it) for so long I think apart of me died and I had to figure out who I was through this process because I never knew myself before I learnt him. I admitted years ago in my first al anon meeting that I wasn't there for myself. I hadn't hit my rock bottom. I was there for the children, as a parent I had hit theirs.
Speaking of hair tests: My A chose to show up full body hairless to court after failing to show for his hair test ... and no, he is not a swimmer. I had convinced myself that this would be the last straw for the judge. It was not. It was, however, another slice of the bread ... pretty soon I had a complete loaf
GM
Speaking of hair tests: My A chose to show up full body hairless to court after failing to show for his hair test ... and no, he is not a swimmer. I had convinced myself that this would be the last straw for the judge. It was not. It was, however, another slice of the bread ... pretty soon I had a complete loaf
GM
About the judge- my goodness, this sounds exactly like something my ex would do, and my judge would probably accept it and give him another chance, as he's done so many times before. May I ask what it took to finally have your full loaf?
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I did feel better when I stopped taking it personally how many chances the judge was giving him. I don't remember if it was after the 2nd or 3rd court date I stopped and thought, this judge doesn't know either of us, he hasn't lived our life. He is hearing both sides and I guess he is doing the best he can by taking each of us at face value (until proven otherwise) and still trying to put the kids best interest first. I understand every situation is different and every judge is different. I am fairly confident I will always feel court is scary. I remember telling my family that I didn't belong "in court" ... I feel silly thinking about that now. I was definitely minimizing the seriousness of my situation with someone in active addiction.
My xah was never actively involved with our kids and my magical thinking even during the marriage was that if he would just spend time with them we would want to be there for them all the time. Reality was completely different. If he wanted to be an active participant, he could have at any time. He ran the gamut of missed visitations, missed or failed UA's, threatening texts, scary behavior, missed court hearings, has never paid child support, failed to take court ordered anger management, parenting and behavioral therapy courses. Basically, anything that he was supposed to do, he would not. I documented everything until I would have 3-4 things and then go back to court to try and get better restrictions in place to protect the children and for the most part my requests were granted. Sometimes the judge would set a continuance if he didn't think I had enough and would give xah another chance. Last year the judge granted my request for a professional supervisor, he has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year and a half.
I will note that the day we left during a violent episode (I should have called the police, not my parents) I tried to communicate regarding only the children via e-mail, and he would turn it back to lies and manipulations against me. After a few weeks, I went full no contact.
Hope that helps. Court is definitely a process, a marathon, but worth every necessary step.
GM
My xah was never actively involved with our kids and my magical thinking even during the marriage was that if he would just spend time with them we would want to be there for them all the time. Reality was completely different. If he wanted to be an active participant, he could have at any time. He ran the gamut of missed visitations, missed or failed UA's, threatening texts, scary behavior, missed court hearings, has never paid child support, failed to take court ordered anger management, parenting and behavioral therapy courses. Basically, anything that he was supposed to do, he would not. I documented everything until I would have 3-4 things and then go back to court to try and get better restrictions in place to protect the children and for the most part my requests were granted. Sometimes the judge would set a continuance if he didn't think I had enough and would give xah another chance. Last year the judge granted my request for a professional supervisor, he has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year and a half.
I will note that the day we left during a violent episode (I should have called the police, not my parents) I tried to communicate regarding only the children via e-mail, and he would turn it back to lies and manipulations against me. After a few weeks, I went full no contact.
Hope that helps. Court is definitely a process, a marathon, but worth every necessary step.
GM
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Originally Posted by Gm0824
I did feel better when I stopped taking it personally how many chances the judge was giving him. I don't remember if it was after the 2nd or 3rd court date I stopped and thought, this judge doesn't know either of us, he hasn't lived our life. He is hearing both sides and I guess he is doing the best he can by taking each of us at face value (until proven otherwise) and still trying to put the kids best interest first. I understand every situation is different and every judge is different. I am fairly confident I will always feel court is scary. I remember telling my family that I didn't belong "in court" ... I feel silly thinking about that now. I was definitely minimizing the seriousness of my situation with someone in active addiction.
My xah was never actively involved with our kids and my magical thinking even during the marriage was that if he would just spend time with them we would want to be there for them all the time. Reality was completely different. If he wanted to be an active participant, he could have at any time. He ran the gamut of missed visitations, missed or failed UA's, threatening texts, scary behavior, missed court hearings, has never paid child support, failed to take court ordered anger management, parenting and behavioral therapy courses. Basically, anything that he was supposed to do, he would not. I documented everything until I would have 3-4 things and then go back to court to try and get better restrictions in place to protect the children and for the most part my requests were granted. Sometimes the judge would set a continuance if he didn't think I had enough and would give xah another chance. Last year the judge granted my request for a professional supervisor, he has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year and a half.
I will note that the day we left during a violent episode (I should have called the police, not my parents) I tried to communicate regarding only the children via e-mail, and he would turn it back to lies and manipulations against me. After a few weeks, I went full no contact.
Hope that helps. Court is definitely a process, a marathon, but worth every necessary step.
GM
My xah was never actively involved with our kids and my magical thinking even during the marriage was that if he would just spend time with them we would want to be there for them all the time. Reality was completely different. If he wanted to be an active participant, he could have at any time. He ran the gamut of missed visitations, missed or failed UA's, threatening texts, scary behavior, missed court hearings, has never paid child support, failed to take court ordered anger management, parenting and behavioral therapy courses. Basically, anything that he was supposed to do, he would not. I documented everything until I would have 3-4 things and then go back to court to try and get better restrictions in place to protect the children and for the most part my requests were granted. Sometimes the judge would set a continuance if he didn't think I had enough and would give xah another chance. Last year the judge granted my request for a professional supervisor, he has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year and a half.
I will note that the day we left during a violent episode (I should have called the police, not my parents) I tried to communicate regarding only the children via e-mail, and he would turn it back to lies and manipulations against me. After a few weeks, I went full no contact.
Hope that helps. Court is definitely a process, a marathon, but worth every necessary step.
GM
Thank you so much for your reply. I can relate to everything you said so much & it was very helpful to hear about your experience.
We have court tomorrow for temporary matters...I feel okay about it not but am sure I will get extremely nervous as the time draws closer.
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