lightandsea

I hope it’s okay to post here. My husband has a process addiction, but SR (especially this Friends & Family forum) has been immensely helpful to me in shifting the focus to myself.

My husband began “recovery” a bit over a year ago, and has miles and miles to go still.

Since that time, I have seen improvements in his ability to take responsibility for his life, to help me more around my home, and his attitude, in general, is better. It has been a more pleasant and peaceful living situation. However, emotionally he has so many aspects that are in the realm of an undeveloped, immature child. He continues to not handle stress well. He is also clingy and more attached in the relationship than I am. I say none of this with judgement—it just is what it is, and I have compassion for his journey, past, present and future.

My gut told me a few weeks ago that something was off, and though I no longer engage in obsessive detective work, my suspicions were not only confirmed, but it’s clear he’s relapsed. Recovery wise, he’s going through the motions and lying to himself.

Enough about him, for a moment. I wrote that mainly to give context to his current state of mind.

I have thought a long time about what I need, and have come to the conclusion what would work for me best is to live apart from my husband, while continuing to maintain a casual relationship with him. I do not seek to push him out of my life in totality, but want limitations around engagement with him as well as living with him. I want a peaceful, uncluttered home that is also not marred, energetically, by his addiction. (So, for me that means a fresh start in a new place, and he could stay in our current home). My health has taken a turn for the worse in the past couple of years and my doctor believes my physical issues are a manifestation of stress and trauma. I need to look after myself. He has shown concern for my health and helping make changes in my life that reduce stress, and I am appreciative of his efforts and growth there.

I would like, ideally, to collaborate with my husband on this—for him to be included in a solution that works for us financially. Outside his addiction, he is now functional with things like finances and logistics planning.

However, given his current emotional immaturity, I believe he will not take this news well (even though from my perspective it looks like hey, behave how you want buddy without repercussions).

Does anyone have pragmatic suggestions on how I might disengage from the emotional attachment manipulations and issues, but encourage collaboration on a pragmatic level? How I might approach this and also guide the interaction? I've thought keeping the focus on me, my needs and my health (versus any sort of shaming about his choices) is a good start, but my sense is it may be a fool’s errand.

My husband’s behaviors are boundary violations at the level of potential loss of our marriage. (And the has been stated and written out for him previously). I am not ready to take that step yet but also want to emphasize to him my choice is to help us avoid divorce and continue to be in relationship with one another, while I protect my health and serenity. Of course, we know none of those values are likely to be the values of an addicted person who hasn't gotten fully clean.

Thank you in advance for reading this, and for your collective wisdom.

trailmix

Hi lightand sea and welcome.

In reading your description it seems to me that you are pretty enlightened to what you need to do for yourself.

It seems to me that, while commendable to not want to "shame" him, leaving him out of the - reasoning - for your wanting your own living space might do more harm than good.

In all cases with addiction the person needs to live life on life's terms and this is one of those times when it would seem to be a good idea to just lay things out as you see them.

I agree with the no shame aspect but facts are facts, if he is ashamed of his behaviour that's not your burden to carry.

The truth is best. Yes all of the things on your side of the street are true as to why you are doing what you are going to do, but is also true that his addiction is a large part of the reason that you are wanting to disengage a bit.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Lots of support here, keep posting and taking care of yourself.

Givenup2018

Light and Sea, good for you. I sense that putting physical distance between you by moving out, will help alot in maintaining those boundaries to protect yourself. Addicts do not really know what boundaries are. You need to have a strong support network, someone you can call, when you yourself are letting our about to let your boundary be violated. I find documenting your thoughts in a diary, where you are, where you want to be, how you want your life to be will help set and maintain the boundaries. Record what you do or say, he does and say to disturb the peace you have gained. Protect your peace and put yourself first.

FireSprite

Have you considered or already tried discussing it in a joint counseling session? That's my plan - currently we're each using therapy individually (it's really his first honest attempt at recovery/healing) with the intention of it leading to us being able to discuss this kind of boundary setting, etc.

It sounds like you might both be further in the process & can possibly handle jumping in to have that conversation? For me that forum allows us an impartial 3rd party to help keep both of us in check & for my husband specifically (who shares those traits like immaturity that you referenced) - to slow down to listen differently. But like I said - we're working toward that still, it is my Hope not yet my Experience that this method will help in the ways I expect like communication, etc.

hopeful4

I think it's very healthy that you are looking at what you can do to look after YOU. You deserve that. I am sure you are correct, he is not going to take it well, if at all. It sounds like you want to have an emotionally healthy conversation with an immature, emotionally stunted person. I don't mean that in a negative way, just looking at facts. The best prediction of future behavior is past behavior. I would focus your efforts with that in your head, and do what you need to do to take good care of yourself.

aliciagr

Im impressed with how your handling things.

I had to take time away from my husband a couple times. The second time he was actually in what would be called early recovery and was very emotional. That was much harder for me than when he was in active addiction.

I guess I would ask, does he have support systems for his emotional needs? Close friends, family, a therapist he trusts? My husband and I had spent time doing family therapy and I would suggest considering this route as it might help to have a mediator on the emotional side of things. And then I would think the therapist could help route him to support resources if he needs them during the transition. ?

Otherwise, I think collaborating on the details, logistics is a good plan and shows that you are keeping him in your life. Having you not physically there will be an adjustment, but maybe if you explain the ways in which you want to keep him in your life, make a sort of plan that will give him comfort emotionally during the transition it would help. Focus on the positive and your health needs as much as possible?

I didnt cut my husband out when I moved. We did collaborate although I had the boundary that I needed time alone to think. It didnt mean we couldnt spend time together, or talk. He was in therapy at the time, was on antidepressants, and my brother was a really great support to him. God Bless my brother for being so kind - lol - We are back together now, but the time apart was really necessary for me.

lightandsea

Thank you all for these ideas and support.

hopeful, I laughed. Thank you. Then I sighed.

We do not currently engage in any sort of couple's therapy and my husband did not follow up with individual therapy after his intensive. He is doing an ongoing online recovery program. He does not lean on others for support, and I am past the point of trying to push him to do that. The lack of support in his life is a byproduct of his choices and self isolation.

AliciaGR, I've been thinking along your lines. My husband has NO support system (he's very far away from family and IMO the family system there only enables and doesn't offer healthy support) aside from local friends who do not know about his issues. He is likely to feel alone and even more likely to slip into further, more intense addiction. I expect this and find myself not caring as long as a) he continues to be financially productive and b) I don't live with it!

Like you, I do not seek to cut him out completely. I like what you wrote about explaining that you needed time alone to think, but that you planned to remain in relationship with him in specific ways. AliciaGR, did you find pushback on your husband's part, and if so, how did you address that for yourself and in the moment?

I am likely to encounter bargaining such as "Well I can leave you alone in the house if you ask." He will certainly not understand that my need to be alone is my need to have a home that is completely, 100% free of his energy and behaviors. In my mind, I need a literal concrete boundary where my husband does not exist or at least only exists for visits. I need a life with compartments definitively away from him and his influence.

My challenge has always been to not respond/engage with typical addict tactics around manipulation, pity party, etc. I know going into this to expect that. When we had what I thought was a simple discussion weeks ago surrounding a relatively small need of mine, he moped for 24 hours and looked up some article about "why does life have to be so hard". :yawn

Rather than try to negotiate with me, he went into his shell. His prior counselor said he's more like a turtle than a bull.

Because of this, the dynamic doesn't work well when I position my energy coldly. But, I need to consider how I will NOT get engaged with his counter maneuvers and how I could peacefully and calmly stay grounded in my resolve/truth.

Another thing I have realized is asking him to collaborate may provide him the opportunity to do delay tactics, so I will need to consider timelines and deadlines and a schedule for all of this to occur. And also what my plan B is if he chooses not to collaborate with me.

Perhaps my plan B is to simply find on my own an apartment thats 1k or less a month that I'll rent for a 1-year lease.

If you are wondering what I'd need him to collaborate on then, it is whether it makes sense to buy a small condo (we'd been considering this anyway as a rental) and use that or perhaps instead buy a duplex: his side and her side. If he were not emotionally immature, he'd be able to easily assess both of those choices pragmatically and come to a logical decision with me. But, no...that's not likely to happen here, so I do need that plan B.

SparkleKitty

lightandsea, if it were me, I would put a lot less energy into trying to control his reaction and a lot more into simply doing what you need to do to take care of yourself now. His reaction to what you need is not your problem.

aliciagr

Initially with my husband he looked at it as being the end of us. He absorbed it all and turned it inward into self blame and self loathing. It was all his fault, he caused it all, he deserved it. But in his case with his emotional state I believe he really felt those things. My family and I were really worried he might self harm because he really was suffering depression before this happened. And then after he sort of stabilized it turned more to how can we fix things if we are not together working on it, and he did stand up for himself and acknowledge that he had been working very hard prior to this, even if it wasnt enough. So I was happy at that point because it was a change in his thinking. More about moving forward in working on his own issues and our relationship. I tried to reinforce all the positive I saw and acknowledge progress. I didnt want to contribute to a defensive attitude. Im good, your bad. Im ok your not. Do you know what I mean? And that can be especially difficult if someone is not progressing and not reaching for the help that is available. So perhaps some honesty is required if this is the case.

Its important to note. And all the while I was not just focused on him but was taking time for me so it was ok.

I think having a firm plan B that you have worked out is a good idea. A timeline you have in mind also good. I think for plan A to have ideas and to present it as both of you looking for solutions. Correct me if Im wrong, but #1 is your need for a home that runs according to your needs and wants, mental and emotional health. Your being happy, rested, relaxed will have a positive impact on everything you do. #2 Your being in a better state of being will make things better between the 2 of you. So maybe go in with some framework of how the interactions between you will continue. And be willing to ask what he would like for it to look like. Because just talking and listening, and keeping him in the process might help. It helped with my husband as we went through this. We set dates up and such.

But certain needs you know - I just had to be firm. I needed respect and understanding too. Its a two way street in a relationship.

By the way, those plan A housing ideas are really good. I have a good feeling its going to work out for you in the long run.

AnvilheadII

so, cliff notes are you want to/plan to move out. for a LONG time.

regardless of what you say or how you phrase it, your AH is likely to hear something like: i'm leaving you, there is someone else.

Sailorgirl57

I’ve never heard of a “process addiction.” I do completely respect your privacy here!!

But I’m just trying to puzzle it out. Is it a mental condition such as Aspergers, ocd, or Tourette’s? Or a compulsion for a self harming behavior like porn or gambling?

No need for landandsea to answer, I just realize I’m really in the dark here. Wish I could be more helpful. Does everybody else besides me get this? Thank you for sharing, landandsea, and good luck creating a cozy, peaceful home. You deserve it. Love and hugs.

lightandsea

I'm going to write here to try and nut this out from the angle of where I'm at in my own recovery journey.

SparkleKitty's post about focusing on me feels like an inaccessible truth for me.

Here is what I mean:
I know that my own growth has seen me go from putting my partner (and other people's) feelings and needs ahead of my own — always (in the past) to me now quite comfortable with stating my needs, but also internalizing my needs and desires as "okay" and healthy.

However.

Despite years of therapy, inner work, so much reading and work on co-dependency, I cannot seem to escape the part of me that is still highly empathic. This part doesn't necessarily think or feel that the feelings and reactions of others are more important than mine, but this part of me is still affected by those reactions.

The effect is less "I hurt him" and more "I can feel in my body the effects of his mood/feelings/hurt." And, accordingly, I feel the need to address it, respond to it, engage with it. I get caught, still, in a cycle of thinking if I could only explain myself BETTER, he’d get it. Logically and in a healthy frame of mind, I know that’s not true. That you cannot reason with someone who is reacting from a place of emotional immaturity.

So, there are two facets to why I initially posted and why I value trying to collaborate with him:

1. In acknowledgement of some of the growth he's made and a desire to work WITH him versus totally autonomously and

2. To protect myself, internally.

In attempting to gauge his reactions, I am basically attempting to prepare and protect myself, physically and emotionally.

And as I write that, I feel, quite honestly, completely helpless.

I find myself in a circle again of self-hatred (a circle I thought I'd escaped a while ago) in my inability to fully, 100% detach from the reactions and emotions of another person.

I feel trapped by me, like I am in a viscous cycle very much of my own creation. We can sit and speculate about my partner all day long but my truth is I have strong doubts as to whether I will ever get the strength to stand up for myself fully and let others' reactions completely bounce off me.
I've logic-ed this out. I KNOW, intellectually, that when someone reacts, it is
A) about them, their thing, their feelings
B) about the story I am telling myself about their reaction
C) not my side of the street

I GET this. And when it comes to even some of the closer people in my life, such as my mom, I've let go of how it affects me, mainly. Like, it doesn't weigh on me or not for long. I've come so far with everyone else, except for the relationship with my husband.

I don't see my need to move out as wrong, or making me a bad wife. I think it is healthy. Yet, imagining how I will be and feel, physically and emotionally, in the face of any possible reactions on his part has me playing the avoidance/waiting game.

I also sense as long as I am in the constant presence of my husband, recovering from this trap is nearly impossible. Yet to get a break from his presence requires me (For where I am now emotionally) to summon strength I do not have. A catch-22.

Learning14

A good friend of mine told me (after I decided that my AF living with me was not a viable option any longer), "You can still support him even if he's living in another place."

You can still healthily support your husband with whatever he is dealing with and live separately. It really doesn't have to be "all or nothing."

Learning14

I'm not sure either, so you aren't alone.
I'm googling...

lightandsea

maybe behavioral addiction was a better term?
in teh realm of gambling, internet addiction, sex addiction, shopping addiction, love addiction.

There is much debate as to whether they classify as addictions in the traditional sense because of the lack of direct chemical effect.

What I have seen with my husband, after comparing with the stories here, are the roots behind the addiction are very similar. I could see my husband very easily being an alcoholic (and in the past he had tendencies toward alcohol dependency). If one thing wasn't his drug of choice, another would be.

AnvilheadII

can i share with you my own "move out" story - while slightly different circumstances, i think the underlying theme of how MY choice MIGHT or WILL affect HIM is apropos.

In my case we met when i had 1 year sober, he had 3. we became that "recovery couple" and that worked for a lot of years. shortly after my mom passed away from a destroyed liver due to alcoholism, M chose t propose....in fact it was like ONE MONTH later. and as we are sitting there at High Tea at the Empress Hotel in Victoria and he's holding the box with the ring, all i'm thinking is "gee, that's kind of sudden, isn't it???" but what i said in my OUTSIDE voice was............yes.

at 7.5 years sober i started drinking again. i began to plot my escape - from a perfectly nice partner!!! i spent years on our finances and debts, and kept a running spreadsheet on what costs he'd need to cover on his own and what i would need. i planned to leave him the house and start fresh.

a mere 7 years later and one day i ran the numbers on the spreadsheet and wah lah! it was finally GO TIME. i then agonized over what to say, how to say it, how much lead time should i give, do i say i'm leaving for good or just "for a while" - on and on and on my little mind spun - first i'll say this, then he'll look shocked, so i'll follow with this then he'll ask why, then i'll say.......then he'll.............then.......then.........

after doing some apt hunting and having a bead on the place i planned/hoped to go, i summoned my courage, donned my big girl britches and sat him down for the talk.........

ME: I think we need to talk
HIM: ok, what about?
ME: well i think it's probably best that i move out for a while?
HIM: when?
ME: probably within the next couple of weeks
HIM: do you want to borrow my truck???

kapow!

so all that fuss and worry and stress and thinking i knew him SO WELL that i could predict his thoughts and responses was all for naught. it was best kept at the Dragnet Joe Friday level = just the facts ma'am, just the facts.

lightandsea

I completely agree. And, that was my plan, because it honors some of my values and needs, too. There are aspects of our relationship I enjoy, and I sincerely hope, for his sake, a path toward health and peace.

But, it's that initial engagement about all this that has me thinking I will simply back off and 'give in' instead of standing calmly in the face of pushback from him.

lightandsea

Thank you, anvilhead. I see all of me in every single detail of your story. I also really appreciate the surprise twist ending

FireSprite

Being empathic doesn't mean allowing others to have unlimited access to your energy at their disposal. You CAN ground & protect yourself against this kind of stuff; it really is a choice we have to make to put ourselves first. And for those of us raised as Codies, we have to LEARN how to self-care, it's not an inherent quality for most of us.

No matter how carefully you navigate this, there is no way to predict or control what another person's reactions will be & it sounds to me like that's the biggest struggle here - that's also the very height of codependency working against you. You'll NEVER be in control of another person's feelings or reactions, all you can do is do your best to handle it with grace & integrity on your side of things from the get-go - make sure you are communicating as clearly as possible & acting from the best of intentions & then the rest is just letting the chips fall, IMO.

SparkleKitty

A lot of your big post resonates with me, and Anvil's too.

I have found there have been many layers to my recovery, and I am assuming there will continue to be many more. Currently, I am three and a half years into recovery from compulsive eating. I learn more and more all the time, and the one constant, for me, has always been that at some point, I have to DO the thing I am afraid of doing. I have to SIT with the discomfort of my feelings -- whether its been limiting contact with my FOO, learning to say "no" to people, maintaining my own boundaries, or simply sitting with whatever it feels like not to eat something when I am not hungry.

I used to hate the phrase "Fake it til you make it," but in hindsight, it is what I have used every single time I have approached a hurdle I am terrified I will not be able to cross. Sometimes you just have to DO the thing you think you cannot do.