What do you tell your kids?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
What do you tell your kids?
Sorry I am relentless in my questions. This is something I am determined to see through. When I am determined nothing stops me, I just go over the obstacle. Our boys think I've been sleeping in the other room for the past few weeks because AH had the flu and I didnt want to get it. Which is partly true. Hes better now, I've made my fianl decision, and now it's time to tell them. We aren't separating, or divorcing, I just demand my own space and distance. They know he's not drinking anymore, they know its been a problem between us for some time, and they know he is working on quitting. My 16 year old son has Bipolar, which has been stable for several years. Just this past week he is back to losing control daily and hurting himself, sometimes until his hands and forehead are bleeding. He refuses counseling right now, we told him the option is there any time he wants it. Our 12 year old son seems indifferent. He's just an easy going kid, nothing really bothers him except when people harm animals. So we will be sitting down to talk to them tomorrow. We never really talked about it with our now grown girls, and I feel like a horrible mom. Hindsight. What did you tell your children? What do you feel helped or didn't help?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
As a daughter of an A father here's what I wish my Mom (or any responsible, loving sober adult!!!) had told me:
Your father is an alcoholic (and then an explanation of what alcoholism is, and what addiction is).
It's not your fault (you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it).
It makes it hard to be in a trusting relationship, this doesn't mean we don't love Dad, it means that his alcoholism complicates our expressions of love, and complicates the growth of our relationship.
I don't have all the answers, and I am struggling too, but I am always here for you to talk and try to find answers to any of your questions.
________________________________________
Boy would that conversation have changed my life for the better - and I often wonder (fruitless anxious wondering!!) if it might have helped my 3 brothers avoid becoming As themselves I'll never ever know .
Peace,
B
Your father is an alcoholic (and then an explanation of what alcoholism is, and what addiction is).
It's not your fault (you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it).
It makes it hard to be in a trusting relationship, this doesn't mean we don't love Dad, it means that his alcoholism complicates our expressions of love, and complicates the growth of our relationship.
I don't have all the answers, and I am struggling too, but I am always here for you to talk and try to find answers to any of your questions.
________________________________________
Boy would that conversation have changed my life for the better - and I often wonder (fruitless anxious wondering!!) if it might have helped my 3 brothers avoid becoming As themselves I'll never ever know .
Peace,
B
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 284
Wamama48 - I am very sorry for your situation. I have a young child and I'm currently divorcing my AH. I know that you are asking for advice from people who've spoken to their kids and I am not one of those people, simply because he's still too young.
That said, what is the harm in being honest with your children? At 16 and 12, I wouldn't doubt they already know something is wrong. It would probably provide them with a lot of relief if that "something" was finally addressed as alcoholism and the pretending stopped.
Tell them that because of dad's alcoholism (which has gone on for x years), mom needs her space even, though he's not drinking anymore. It has nothing to do with them and that sometimes relationships need time outs...
It teaches them that they are also entitled to take a "time out" from people that hurt them if they need to and that is OK. You are teaching them about boundaries which is a vital life lesson for healthy relationships.
They're watching you and your husband and learning how to navigate life. Talk to them, honestly. I wouldn't doubt that they probably want so badly for someone to address the elephant. Lying and pretending everything is OK, is part of the alcoholic family cycle and its horribly damaging.
That said, what is the harm in being honest with your children? At 16 and 12, I wouldn't doubt they already know something is wrong. It would probably provide them with a lot of relief if that "something" was finally addressed as alcoholism and the pretending stopped.
Tell them that because of dad's alcoholism (which has gone on for x years), mom needs her space even, though he's not drinking anymore. It has nothing to do with them and that sometimes relationships need time outs...
It teaches them that they are also entitled to take a "time out" from people that hurt them if they need to and that is OK. You are teaching them about boundaries which is a vital life lesson for healthy relationships.
They're watching you and your husband and learning how to navigate life. Talk to them, honestly. I wouldn't doubt that they probably want so badly for someone to address the elephant. Lying and pretending everything is OK, is part of the alcoholic family cycle and its horribly damaging.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
What did you tell your children?
That's what was missing from my childhood as an ACoA - The Truth.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Originally Posted by FireSprite 
The truth.... always the truth in the most age-appropriate way. I started openly discussing addiction /codependency /dysfunction/numbing with DD (now 13) at age 5 & we've never stopped.
That's what was missing from my childhood as an ACoA - The Truth.
That's what was missing from my childhood as an ACoA - The Truth.
Alcoholism is treated like some kind of sacred cow. It's not, it's an addiction. The addict treats it (in many cases) like a secret and it probably serves them.
How does it serve anyone else?
Good luck with your talk, sorry you are in such a tough spot.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
What if AW won't admit she has a problem, and won't allow me to tell DS7 the truth of why we are divorcing? I can see that happening
I can no longer tolerate your mom's drinking.
I feel like her drinking is impacting our lives.
I don't expect you to understand all of this, but I do want you to talk to me about anything that makes you feel uncomfortable..... I can't promise to always have the answers but I promise I will always make time to hear you fully.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
What if AW won't admit she has a problem, and won't allow me to tell DS7 the truth of why we are divorcing? I can see that happening
How can she not "allow" you to tell him the truth? Ask that you not mention the alcohol? Not put forth alcoholism as the main reason?
I don't see how she can stop you?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Here's one of my old shares on this topic:
We also talk about having compassion for those that suffer and how they do often believe that they are doing their very best, but how we all have different yardsticks that we use to measure these things by.
Originally Posted by FireSprite
Man, my heart breaks for your kids.
I agree with forourgirls, honesty is the BEST way to show them respect during this process. I basically told DD, "I want to be honest with you & show you respect during all these changes in our lives, but sometimes the most honest answer IS *I don't know*, or *Let me think about the best way to answer that great question you just asked*." I told her that I was often still working on understanding things too, so I wasn't always able to explain them. I told her that NO question was off limits, but that I couldn't answer what she didn't ask. We talk openly about addiction - not just alcoholism, but how all kinds of people struggle with all kinds of behaviors. I talk to her about how it was for me as a kid with an a father who was an alcoholic & drug addict.
When we separated she was around 5 yrs old (10 now); I told her that sometimes people grow apart & just can't get along the way they once did. And that trying to FORCE that sometimes brings out the worst in both people, which makes everyone in the house miserable. Sometimes, people need time & a little space just like she does when she goes to her room to read or play alone & shuts the door. That becomes her sanctuary - but for mommies & daddies to do that it sometimes involves living apart. I told her I didn't know where any of the changes were going to take us for sure, but that I COULD promise to let her know as soon as I figured it out. (And then, of course, I kept any promises that I made.)
It really paid off for me to show some vulnerability & not try to pretend that I had my crap together all the time.
I agree with forourgirls, honesty is the BEST way to show them respect during this process. I basically told DD, "I want to be honest with you & show you respect during all these changes in our lives, but sometimes the most honest answer IS *I don't know*, or *Let me think about the best way to answer that great question you just asked*." I told her that I was often still working on understanding things too, so I wasn't always able to explain them. I told her that NO question was off limits, but that I couldn't answer what she didn't ask. We talk openly about addiction - not just alcoholism, but how all kinds of people struggle with all kinds of behaviors. I talk to her about how it was for me as a kid with an a father who was an alcoholic & drug addict.
When we separated she was around 5 yrs old (10 now); I told her that sometimes people grow apart & just can't get along the way they once did. And that trying to FORCE that sometimes brings out the worst in both people, which makes everyone in the house miserable. Sometimes, people need time & a little space just like she does when she goes to her room to read or play alone & shuts the door. That becomes her sanctuary - but for mommies & daddies to do that it sometimes involves living apart. I told her I didn't know where any of the changes were going to take us for sure, but that I COULD promise to let her know as soon as I figured it out. (And then, of course, I kept any promises that I made.)
It really paid off for me to show some vulnerability & not try to pretend that I had my crap together all the time.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central O-H-I-O
Posts: 1,689
Originally Posted by trailmix
Well, he already knows she has a problem.
How can she not "allow" you to tell him the truth? Ask that you not mention the alcohol? Not put forth alcoholism as the main reason?
I don't see how she can stop you?
How can she not "allow" you to tell him the truth? Ask that you not mention the alcohol? Not put forth alcoholism as the main reason?
I don't see how she can stop you?
He knows that she and I have issues.
She will probably say that alcohol cannot be discussed. She's said before that I can discuss any issue I have with her (which is an outright lie - she's perfect), but I cannot bring up alcohol! Wacko.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
I'm not sure that he knows that she does have a problem, she drinks mostly after he's gone to bed. he knows she drinks wine every night. He knows that COD is the only one who comes to him if he calls for someone.
He knows that she and I have issues.
She will probably say that alcohol cannot be discussed. She's said before that I can discuss any issue I have with her (which is an outright lie - she's perfect), but I cannot bring up alcohol! Wacko.
He knows that she and I have issues.
She will probably say that alcohol cannot be discussed. She's said before that I can discuss any issue I have with her (which is an outright lie - she's perfect), but I cannot bring up alcohol! Wacko.
And i'm sorry, I actually laughed at that last paragraph (not at the situation, at the absurdity of her request).
Well, she is not your conductor - at least you can be grateful for that! You can say whatever you like. You are obviously a thoughtful person and I just know you will handle this well.
One thing I have observed here at SR in reading friends and family posts is that parents who are honest with their children maintain (by and large) a solid relationship with them.
Those that chose to "protect" the alcoholic, in some cases, end up estranged from the children, even when they become adults. The non-alcoholic parent is left to their own devices while the children rally around the alcoholic, because really, they do need help (perhaps just not the help of their children).
I think if you aren't forthright you risk making the alcoholic out to be the victim. If you don't tell the truth then they will make their own conclusions.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Agree - he knows... he just doesn't KNOW.
No one is being truthful with him, so how can he possibly use the right language for what he's experiencing? At 5 all DD could express was that she "felt" that dad "didn't always make good decisions".
So the story he's making up in his mind is going to be far scarier & out of control than the reality which is, in fact, manageable.
It's like thinking there's a scary monster in the closet. If I imagine it, I'll create the scariest, foulest, most offensive creature..... but if I inspect the closet, see what is really causing all those wavy shadows? Meh - it's not so scary, it's just Real. Truth is empowering for ALL of us, kids included.
This is EXACTLY what drove me bat$hit nuts as a kid - running in circles around dysfunction that no one will label. Until I understood what I was dealing with, I was boxing shadows at every turn, looking for demons in everything & reading too much into all the wrong stuff.
Kids KNOW. We foolishly convince ourselves otherwise because that's OUR discomfort.
I ALWAYS KNEW even when I didn't know the words for it.
No one is being truthful with him, so how can he possibly use the right language for what he's experiencing? At 5 all DD could express was that she "felt" that dad "didn't always make good decisions".
So the story he's making up in his mind is going to be far scarier & out of control than the reality which is, in fact, manageable.
It's like thinking there's a scary monster in the closet. If I imagine it, I'll create the scariest, foulest, most offensive creature..... but if I inspect the closet, see what is really causing all those wavy shadows? Meh - it's not so scary, it's just Real. Truth is empowering for ALL of us, kids included.
This is EXACTLY what drove me bat$hit nuts as a kid - running in circles around dysfunction that no one will label. Until I understood what I was dealing with, I was boxing shadows at every turn, looking for demons in everything & reading too much into all the wrong stuff.
Kids KNOW. We foolishly convince ourselves otherwise because that's OUR discomfort.
I ALWAYS KNEW even when I didn't know the words for it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 284
COD - Of course she doesn't want you to say anything! DUH!
You don't have to do what she says. And honestly, it might be easier for your DS to understand why you are choosing to divorce. He doesn't need to see it or experience it (he's lucky he hasn't)....but are you sure he hasn't? He's experienced her not being there for him, not tucking him in at night...the absence is felt/experienced.
Addressing that experience and honestly telling him it is because his mom suffers from an addition to alcohol might help him a lot. First, it helps answer the question of why mom isn't available/emotionally available at night. Second, it also lets him know that the reason mom isn't available has NOTHING to do with him.
Not telling him the truth protects no one but your AW.
You don't have to do what she says. And honestly, it might be easier for your DS to understand why you are choosing to divorce. He doesn't need to see it or experience it (he's lucky he hasn't)....but are you sure he hasn't? He's experienced her not being there for him, not tucking him in at night...the absence is felt/experienced.
Addressing that experience and honestly telling him it is because his mom suffers from an addition to alcohol might help him a lot. First, it helps answer the question of why mom isn't available/emotionally available at night. Second, it also lets him know that the reason mom isn't available has NOTHING to do with him.
Not telling him the truth protects no one but your AW.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
I got 'lucky' when I divorced/ got custody. My daughter was 5 and her mother had been absent most of her life. I never bad mouthed her mother. I told my exw that "she'll make her own mind up about you." They have ZERO relationship,because my daughter indeed figured it out at about 12(she's 22 now). **I** think with kids under 12-13,who don't seem aware of what the exact problem is in the home, there should be a therapist involved in some fashion. Whether both parents meet with a therapist before telling the kids, or if you tell them in a therapy appointment about the split.. Just my $.02.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
What did you tell your children? What do you feel helped or didn't help?
As most have said the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Kids need at least one adult in their lives they can trust. If you fudge over the issues or outright lie they will find out and have no one they can trust. I also lived in the same house as my now exah and for a very long time we had separate areas. This didn't work too well tbh. He used my distancing from him as leverage against me and created a situation where I was alienated and seen as the guilty party for making him sleep in a different room. He used it as an excuse to drink and we ended up divorcing cos once you say no to an alcoholic you really see the real person. I'd no intention of divorcing in the beginning but it quickly gravitated to that. If I'd had the time again I'd have asked him to move out ( and stay out cos he did go for short periods) until his sobriety was more certain and give us all a breathing space. Am concerned your son with bipolar is suffering with this situation too.
As most have said the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Kids need at least one adult in their lives they can trust. If you fudge over the issues or outright lie they will find out and have no one they can trust. I also lived in the same house as my now exah and for a very long time we had separate areas. This didn't work too well tbh. He used my distancing from him as leverage against me and created a situation where I was alienated and seen as the guilty party for making him sleep in a different room. He used it as an excuse to drink and we ended up divorcing cos once you say no to an alcoholic you really see the real person. I'd no intention of divorcing in the beginning but it quickly gravitated to that. If I'd had the time again I'd have asked him to move out ( and stay out cos he did go for short periods) until his sobriety was more certain and give us all a breathing space. Am concerned your son with bipolar is suffering with this situation too.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
From Firesprite: This is EXACTLY what drove me bat$hit nuts as a kid - running in circles around dysfunction that no one will label. Until I understood what I was dealing with, I was boxing shadows at every turn, looking for demons in everything & reading too much into all the wrong stuff.
Kids KNOW. We foolishly convince ourselves otherwise because that's OUR discomfort.
I ALWAYS KNEW even when I didn't know the words for it.
Ditto.
B.
Kids KNOW. We foolishly convince ourselves otherwise because that's OUR discomfort.
I ALWAYS KNEW even when I didn't know the words for it.
Ditto.
B.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 356
My kid was 6 when H went to rehab. His alcoholism was very much a secret and he kept it very well hidden from everyone but me. She never saw him drink at home and did most of it after she went to bed. He was always tired and grumpy and it was always blamed on work. That's all she knew. Rehab came out of nowhere (was mandatory for his job) and so we were not prepared to say anything more than daddy had a booboo and had to go to a special hospital to get fixed and she was good with that. I figured she'd start asking questions after we started visiting him but she never did. Towards the end of his rehab and during vacation when it was just the two of us with no distractions I finally told her the truth. I had found a couple of really good books for kids (unfortunately not in English so can't make recs for that) that explained it as a disease that adults have no control over and it makes them do things they normally would not do. Also made it clear that it has nothing to do with the child at all, nothing they did caused the adult to do this and there was nothing they could do to fix it. So told her that it was alcohol disease and people needs special help for that. She asked me a few minor questions but nothing else. I agree that it is important that they know the truth even if the AS is not admitting to it or not in treatment especially if it is the main reason for divorce. Kids know something is up and if it is the reason for divorce I think it is only fair that they know why so they don't come up with their own reasons. You don't have to badmouth the AS but explain that they have a disease and because of the disease there are problems between mom and dad and that it is a problem for the non alcoholic spouse and they can no longer tolerate it. And if the kid goes to the AS and asks why don't you get help for your disease then so be it. Maybe once the kids know they will get to a point where they consider seeking help but maybe not.
For the 16 year old (and maybe 12 year old if they're mature) have them watch Pleasure unwoven (and you as well). It is a very good documentary about addiction. Alateen or counseling to help them process. make it clear it is not their fault. I think it is important that kids know about it because they will be at higher risk for developing an addiction problem as well, especially if they already have underlying diagnosed psych issues. They needs to know that treating those psych issues is very important because not doing so will make it very likely they will turn to substances as well. With treatment no guarantee that they won't but less likely so.
at rehab they had us do the backpack exercise. A backpack full of stones and each stone was a feeling: fear, shame, sadness etc. You carry the backpack and it is heavy. Imagine exercising with it sleeping with it etc. The more stones you add to it (by keeping feelings bottled up inside of you) the heavier it gets and the more difficult it gets to do stuff in your daily life. . Once you start removing stones it becomes lighter and you will be able to function better. The idea is that many of us keep our feeling bottled up inside us and so our backpack gets heavier and heavier. The only way to make it lighter is by talking about our feeling and emotions. We were told at rehab that the say no to drug campaign is pretty useless for kids. Kids needs to learn from early on to express their feeling and should be allowed to express their feelings without being judged for it or made fun of (don't tell them they're not allowed to feel a certain way or that they cannot cry). Only by learning to do this do they lower their risk for addiction. And it is something they needs to learn. It s not something I learned when I was little so many years of stuffing my backpack is slowly getting unloaded. I think this is especially important for kids that are at risk for addiction (parents with addiction history). It is an important life skill for everyone but most people without a close relative of addiction will be less likely to become an addict. But they may become the codependent in an alcoholic relationship (like me) so they still need to learn.
My kid went to a 4 day program at betty ford which was really awesome, it is for kids 7-12 and they do an awesome job teaching about addiction. learning to talk about feelings and they also do the back pack exercise and all of this through play and games. She still goes to follow up care every 2-3 months and it is just a fun time for her.
I think it is only available in CO, TX and CA but the books they get through there are available online and it looks like they have a DVD coming out soon as well. It is a very good series to learn about addiction and talking about emotions etc. Here is the website:
http://mybeamersworld.com/
you don't need to give out every little detail about whats going. Age appropriate stuff and let them ask questions. Keep it short and simple for the littles and let them ask questions as time goes on. They should be able to talk about it freely without feeling ashamed or like they will be punished. I have never told my kids she was not allowed to talk to certain people about it. She just has chosen not too. My H is now very open about it as well as it should be when they're in recovery.
For the 16 year old (and maybe 12 year old if they're mature) have them watch Pleasure unwoven (and you as well). It is a very good documentary about addiction. Alateen or counseling to help them process. make it clear it is not their fault. I think it is important that kids know about it because they will be at higher risk for developing an addiction problem as well, especially if they already have underlying diagnosed psych issues. They needs to know that treating those psych issues is very important because not doing so will make it very likely they will turn to substances as well. With treatment no guarantee that they won't but less likely so.
at rehab they had us do the backpack exercise. A backpack full of stones and each stone was a feeling: fear, shame, sadness etc. You carry the backpack and it is heavy. Imagine exercising with it sleeping with it etc. The more stones you add to it (by keeping feelings bottled up inside of you) the heavier it gets and the more difficult it gets to do stuff in your daily life. . Once you start removing stones it becomes lighter and you will be able to function better. The idea is that many of us keep our feeling bottled up inside us and so our backpack gets heavier and heavier. The only way to make it lighter is by talking about our feeling and emotions. We were told at rehab that the say no to drug campaign is pretty useless for kids. Kids needs to learn from early on to express their feeling and should be allowed to express their feelings without being judged for it or made fun of (don't tell them they're not allowed to feel a certain way or that they cannot cry). Only by learning to do this do they lower their risk for addiction. And it is something they needs to learn. It s not something I learned when I was little so many years of stuffing my backpack is slowly getting unloaded. I think this is especially important for kids that are at risk for addiction (parents with addiction history). It is an important life skill for everyone but most people without a close relative of addiction will be less likely to become an addict. But they may become the codependent in an alcoholic relationship (like me) so they still need to learn.
My kid went to a 4 day program at betty ford which was really awesome, it is for kids 7-12 and they do an awesome job teaching about addiction. learning to talk about feelings and they also do the back pack exercise and all of this through play and games. She still goes to follow up care every 2-3 months and it is just a fun time for her.
I think it is only available in CO, TX and CA but the books they get through there are available online and it looks like they have a DVD coming out soon as well. It is a very good series to learn about addiction and talking about emotions etc. Here is the website:
http://mybeamersworld.com/
you don't need to give out every little detail about whats going. Age appropriate stuff and let them ask questions. Keep it short and simple for the littles and let them ask questions as time goes on. They should be able to talk about it freely without feeling ashamed or like they will be punished. I have never told my kids she was not allowed to talk to certain people about it. She just has chosen not too. My H is now very open about it as well as it should be when they're in recovery.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
B,
thank you. I'm a daughter of an AM and I would have liked to know it wasnt our fault. I like what you said. Simple and to the point.
thank you. I'm a daughter of an AM and I would have liked to know it wasnt our fault. I like what you said. Simple and to the point.
Originally Posted by Bernadette
As a daughter of an A father here's what I wish my Mom (or any responsible, loving sober adult!!!) had told me:
Your father is an alcoholic (and then an explanation of what alcoholism is, and what addiction is).
It's not your fault (you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it).
It makes it hard to be in a trusting relationship, this doesn't mean we don't love Dad, it means that his alcoholism complicates our expressions of love, and complicates the growth of our relationship.
I don't have all the answers, and I am struggling too, but I am always here for you to talk and try to find answers to any of your questions.
________________________________________
Boy would that conversation have changed my life for the better - and I often wonder (fruitless anxious wondering!!) if it might have helped my 3 brothers avoid becoming As themselves I'll never ever know .
Peace,
B
Your father is an alcoholic (and then an explanation of what alcoholism is, and what addiction is).
It's not your fault (you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it).
It makes it hard to be in a trusting relationship, this doesn't mean we don't love Dad, it means that his alcoholism complicates our expressions of love, and complicates the growth of our relationship.
I don't have all the answers, and I am struggling too, but I am always here for you to talk and try to find answers to any of your questions.
________________________________________
Boy would that conversation have changed my life for the better - and I often wonder (fruitless anxious wondering!!) if it might have helped my 3 brothers avoid becoming As themselves I'll never ever know .
Peace,
B
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
