Amber1991

I’m new to this and have never posted anything like this before. I’m 26 years old and from Australia. My dad called me drunk tonight which is a fairly common thing, And so here I am. I can’t remember exactly when I first noticed my dad had an alcohol addiction but it was a young age. My dad always had a bottle of beer next to him while watching the football and was always at the pub in the afternoon. My dad still doesn’t admit at the age of 57 years old that he has a problem, he sees an alcoholic as being someone who bashes their family and is always stumbling around. My dad was a registered nurse until around 13 years ago when he lost his nursing licence due to allegations of him turning up to work drunk, giving patients inadequate medical care and having an alcohol induced seizure. This is when the alcohol had caught up to him and was a turning point in my family’s life. My mum and Dad split up when I was 9 years old and he moved to Tasmania to start a new life with his new girlfriend. When the relationship went sour due to his drinking my dad moved back and expected life to pick up where he had left it. My mother brother and I moved to another house as she couldn’t live with him. My dad couldn’t just let my mother move on and continuously called her drunk yelling verbal abuse down the phone. He come around the house one night when I had my friend over for a sleepover and pulled the screen door off it’s hinges and threatened to break the door down if we didn’t let him in. This was the first time I called the police on my father. Eventually my dad convinced my mum to move back to the family house as he said it was the best thing for the family to be together. This would turn out to be far from the truth. My dad was the funny happy person he could be when he wasn’t drinking for a few weeks when we moved back but surely soon things turned back to normal. My dad would come home from the pub every weekend and sometimes on the weeknights and start a fight with my mum, he was not physically abusive ( although there were a few times when this did happen) but verbally and mentally very much so. I would hear my parents yelling (mainly my dad) most nights. The conversations would generally be about my mother raising us kids wrong and everything that she had done wrong, even though my mother had never done anything to deserve his abuse. There were times when my dad had come home and collaspsed with his head going through the wall, there were times when he broke things like the hot plate or the front window but couldn’t remember doing it so blamed my brother and I for it. I don’t remember a day that my dad has not had a drink since I was young. I have heard countless times my dad crying in the bedroom with my mother telling her that he is going to kill himself, reverting back to his younger self where there was constant physical abuse in the house from an alcoholic father. My dad was molested at the age of 15 by his football coach as I found out one night when he was drunk. My dad doesn’t see this as a ‘big deal’ he says you just move on and deal with it. My dad has been physically abusive a few times as mentioned before. One time he pushed my mother over while she was on crutches after surgery and another he dragged my mother across the room by her ears. He has held me down numerous times screaming in my face and has been physical with my brother a few times. Every time he had been drinking. Now at the age of 26 I have a good job and live by myself with my dog away from the chaos, but the chaos still chases me. My dad calls me on weekends drunk a lot. My mother turns up on my doorstep and I don’t even have to ask her why she is here because I know the reason is my father has had too much to drink and has started on her again. There will be more posts to come. Just wondering if anyone has had similar situations? Thanks

OpheliaKatz

I just want to make one thing clear: your father is an addict AND he is also abusive. Those two things do not always occur simultaneously although they often do. Also... people who become addicted to things are doing it because they have feelings they are not dealing with, so they numb their feelings with alcohol/drugs/gambling/sex/(insert other addiction). In your father's case, a difficult childhood plus childhood sexual abuse are probably reasons that he's drinking. He needs to be sober and then in therapy... but he needs to be sober first. Therapy does not work without sobriety. However... and this is a big deal: YOU have NO CONTROL over if he chooses to go into sobriety and therapy or not. No control. That's his choice. Additionally, he has learned some very bad behaviors from his upbringing, mainly that it's okay to be abusive and violent and to use alcohol as an excuse for this.

There is NEVER any excuse for violence against your spouse and children. Addiction is progressive. If the addict does not seek sobriety, the addiction ends in their death -- either through overdose or accident. Domestic abuse is also progressive. If the victim does not leave the relationship, it is only a matter of time before the abuse becomes violence and the violence ends in the victim's death, either through suicide, murder or manslaughter (accidental murder).

In Australia, domestic violence is defined by Family Law Act 1975 as "violent, threatening or other behavior by a person that coerces or controls a member of the person's family, or causes the family member to be fearful".

In your situation, I would 1) initiate no contact with your father immediately. 2) Find some quiet time to discuss with your mother (without your father there), the possibility of her leaving the relationship. The idea that it is better for you to be a family is fallacious -- your father doesn't act like a "family man"; he's better off alone... and you are all safer without him. 3) Seek domestic violence therapy for you and your mother.

Please call SHARC, Naranon, Alanon, or google your local council's domestic violence website and ask for help.

Note: women are more likely to experience violence by a previous partner than a current one, so your mother might fear leaving the relationship because it will make your father angry. If she does intend to leave, she needs to be 100% sure that she's going to leave and never return... EVER. Because imagine if she leaves and then goes back to him, he's going to be angry, and the next time he's drunk, who knows what he might do. Also, do not discuss your plans with him. Do not go to him and say, "I'm initiating no contact unless you sober up." No. That will **** him off. No contact is for your own sanity and has nothing to do with him. It's not to make him do anything. It's for you only. He can drink as much as he wants. Leave him in god's hands. If not god, then whatever is your higher power (leave him in the hands of The Force, or Ceiling Cat or whatever). You don't have control over him. You only have control over yourself. If you do decide to leave him... make sure that your finances (your mother's finances) are separate. Do all the leg work now and prepare before you leave. Also stay safe. If things become bad -- and they might -- you might need to get an intervention order. Start recording/collecting evidence of violence.

I'm sorry for what brings you here.

Amber1991

I should have put a timeline up of when the said violence has occurred. My dad has not been physical since I was around 17 and I am now 26. He was drinking very heavily at the time, and I do understand that is no excuse! The situation for the past couple of years has been my dad drinking at the pub coming home and starting the verbal abuse to my mother. The main subject these days is my brother as he has removed himself from my dads life for 5 years now and as my dad does love my brother and I very much it eats away at him. I have tried to rationalise with my dad and tell him to seek counselling and AA for his issues but he just laughs and does not agree that he has a problem and puts it down to ‘everyone has problems’ he doesn’t take any blame for what has happened. My mum has left my dad and gone back to him 4 times over the years and my dad coaxes her back every time by saying he will change and making her feel sorry for him. I have told my mum if she leaves him again she has to go for good, she can’t keep playing the game of leave for a bit and come back. My mum is unhappy living with my dad and I know that she will reach her breaking point and leave again eventually and I will convince her to leave for good. As for me not being in my dads life, I personally can’t do that, I love my dad very much despite all that he has put us through and is a loving man, just a very troubled man. I am working on not trying to ‘fix’ things all the time and starting to realise that they are the parents and it is not my role to step in to help when things go bad. I appreciate your lengthy reply it was very informative!
Regards,
Amber

Maudcat

Hi, Amber.
Welcome to SR. You will find lots of support here.
I think you have it right: your father is very troubled.
So..what do you want to do?
Listen to your dad’s drunken ramblings when he calls you?
Cuz you don’t have to.
Turn off the phone.
Ultimately, it’s your mother’s decision to stay or go. All you can do is accept her choice.
You may not like it, but it is her choice to make.
It sounds like your father blames everyone for his bad behavior, and that is untenable.
You can’t maintain a loving relationship with someone who can’t see the consequences of their actions.
I hope that you have some support, maybe go to Al-Anon meetings or talk to someone?
Good luck. Keep posting.

Wheelsup

Amber ... and I'm going to be a bit blunt ... but a good dad and loving father doesn't do what your dad does. He doesn't get to be physically abusive and verbally abusive (whether now or in the past) and turn around and claim to be a good father.

Your brother has sent a clear message to your father - "I can't have a relationship with you this way, alcoholic and abusive." And, your dad complains to you about it? Why doesn't he go and get help and do something about it? Change behavior to he can attempt to re-establish contact? How does calling you - drunk - help that relationship?

It doesn't. I suspect, though, that it serves as a sort of rationalization for your dad. Something along the lines of "Well, my daughter still talks to me so my son is the one with the problem. I don't really have one; all is fine. See, she even thinks so because she still talks to me."

I am sorry you have to deal with all this. You are young! And at this point in your life you should be having fun, building your career, enjoying your friends and living life. You shouldn't have to deal with your messed up parents.

I hope you have someone to talk to in real life who can support you in dealing with all this. It sounds like a lot and it can be difficult to carry such a heavy load.

BriarSkye

Any type of abuse in unacceptable. Period.
Verbal abuse is just as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse.

trailmix

Hi Amber,

Really, in my experience with this, the only thing to ask yourself is what are you willing to accept.

If you are ok with listening to your Dad's drunk ramblings on the phone, that's ok, I mean that is your choice. If you have had enough of it but don't wan't to completely cut off contact then just let him know that you don't want to talk to him while he is drunk, yes, it's that simple. Then if he calls you while drunk just say please call me back when you are sober and I would be happy to talk to you.

Really it's about your own boundaries. Boundaries (as opposed to "rules" for others) are for you, not for the addict/other people.

So for instance if your Mother dropping by unannounced is troubling you, you could tell her that you won't be available for "drop-ins" because you find it unsettling so she would need to call to be sure you are available. If she doesn't, then when she shows up you would just need to let her know it's not convenient and she needs to call.

I'm just using that as an example, your Mother visiting at the drop of a hat might be just fine for you, but you get the idea.

You might find Al-Anon really helpful and your Mother might too, if for no other reasons that it gives you additional tools to deal with people with addictions.

Amber1991

Thanks for the reply’s everyone. My mum has actually decided to leave my dad for good today. It’s such a coincidence that I posted for the first time to this group just yesterday and this has happened. My dad called her while she was downtown shopping and she could tell he had been drinking. Something snapped in my mum, who is normally an easy going person who keeps to herself and doesn’t start conflict. She drove straight to the pub and told my dad that she would be leaving him. My dad is now refusing to let her in the house to get her things. My mum has a key and is going to go back later on to get some things for the night. My dad has boarders living at the house at the moment so I don’t think she will be at risk as she will not be alone. I told my mum she really can’t go back to him this time and she is planning to move from town eventually which is a big move for someone who has lived in the same town for over 40 years. I think it will be the move my mum needs I just hope she sticks to it. I am so angry that my dad can never make things work and refuses to get help as he does not think he needs it. I have to keep reminding myself that it has nothing to do with me and I don’t need to get involved but it’s so hard. Strangely I feel a sense of guilt and like I should be doing something.

trailmix

I don't think that is so unusual. After all, your Dad has some good qualities as you have mentioned that he is a loving person.

You also have him calling you talking about your Brother and how much he loves him and no doubt how much he is hurt by your Brother's terrible treatment of him, for no real reason.

Well as you know, there is a real reason but your Dad denies this. I can see how you would feel like you were abandoning him if you don't listen to his rambling on this but - how is it affecting you?

First of all, there is exactly nothing for you to do. You didn't cause it you can't cure it and you can't control it. From what you have said your Dad is in complete denial about his alcoholism and therefore the destruction it causes. You can't fix that.

You love your Dad and want to help him I'm sure, I get that, but don't sacrifice yourself or your happiness, it won't help you and it won't actually help him either.

I never talked to my Father about his drinking, never felt it was my place or that I needed to, it never occurred to me actually! He was an adult, he chose to drink, that's that (and really, that is that!).

trailmix

I don't think that is so unusual. After all, your Dad has some good qualities as you have mentioned that he is a loving person.

You also have him calling you talking about your Brother and how much he loves him and no doubt how much he is hurt by your Brother's terrible treatment of him, for no real reason.

Well as you know, there is a real reason but your Dad denies this. I can see how you would feel like you were abandoning him if you don't listen to his rambling on this but - how is it affecting you?

First of all, there is exactly nothing for you to do. You didn't cause it you can't cure it and you can't control it. From what you have said your Dad is in complete denial about his alcoholism and therefore the destruction it causes. You can't fix that.

I'm glad for your Mom!

Amber1991

Yeah everything your saying is right, thanks for that. My dad is actually pushing the blame on to me which has a lot to do with it. He can be very childish when he drinks. He told my mum I have been putting ideas in her head to make her leave him even though I haven’t said a word. He has also been sending me messages via Facebook congratulating me on what has happened. What he doesn’t get is that I’m hurting so much. All he can think about is himself sometimes. It hurts.

trailmix

Yes, I can understand that.

I didn't really go through that with my Father, I distanced myself from him very early on, emotionally. I don't know that it was ever a conscious choice (although, as an adult I didn't speak to him for about a year once as I had just had enough).

Those boundaries I was speaking of, those are for you to get some distance. Not to say that they are a cure-all for him hurting your feelings, they aren't, but it will give you a tool to step back a bit. I'm sure you might be worried that those boundaries will hurt his feelings but you do need to look out for yourself and he is a grown man.

So he has turned on you now as the cause of his latest trouble. That's another thing I was always clear on, that nothing my Father did had anything to do with me.

Keep in mind that he is an adult (although it appears he isn't always acting like one) and is responsible for his own choices and the outcome of those choices.

There is an acronym used called JADE, basically:

Don't Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain, when speaking/arguing with someone who is drinking, there is just no point.

There are tons of good tools to be found, please take some time to read the stickies at the top of the forum here and also time to read some other posts. It's a good idea to understand alcoholism as it helps you. More focus on you, less on them is probably a good mantra for you right now.

Sleepyhollo

You're now the only one who has not "abandoned" him so you will get all of it now and he will make try and make you feel guilty. As hard as it is, you may need to significantly cut back on your interactions with him , at least for the time being, or at least set some real strict boundaries with him. Don't talk to him if he is drunk for starters because nothing good can come out of that especially now that your mom has left him (good for her btw). Don't engage him when he says stuff about your mom or your brother, period. When my H was in rehab I actually stopped talking to him for the most part unless it had something to do with our kiddo because he continued to manipulate for a good part of that time in rehab. If I had not distanced myself from him like that we would've fallen into the same dysfunctional relationship as before. It forced him to focus on other things. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like your dad is anywhere near admitting he has a problem so that will make it a lot harder as things will probably get worse including his drinking. But like PP have said, you cannot do a darn thing about it as much as you would like to. He might see the light now that everyone is "abandoning" him (which btw no one is but that's how he sees it) but he probably won't. You don't have to break contact with him necessarily but set some strict boundaries and stick with them. The minute you give an inch he will take a mile. Probably the biggest ones like I said is don't engage him when he is drunk and when he is saying things about your mom or brother. The whole detaching with love thing (which I will admit I was no good, I detached alright but I was fed up so there wasn't t much love).
Good luck! I think there is a book Adult children of alcoholics that is supposed to be good (a therapist at our office always recommended it to her patients ).

Mark1014

I'm so sorry that alcohol has cast such a long shadow over your life Amber.

If you've not already read it, there is a book called 'Boundaries' by Drs. Henry Cloud and John Townsend that may prove helpful.

I'm proud for your mom. I'm wary of interjecting too much personal opinion, but I believe she has made the best choice for herself and the family. Including, in the long term, your father. Any chance for his recovery will result from him facing his own demons. It seems the rest of you have made every good-faith effort and need not be a part of enabling .

For what it's worth, I think there should be absolutely 100% no conversation/interaction when he's been drinking. Zero.

So much encouragement from me, an alcolholic in long-term recovery and also a dad, to you and your family Amber.

FeelingGreat

amber I'm glad your mother has decided to go. Although it sounds strange, this is probably the only hope of your AF of being forced to look at his own behaviour.
Losing your brother, your mother and possibly you, might cause him to admit he has a problem, but don't count on it.

As the others have suggested, tell him you won't talk to him after he's been drinking. Sober, maybe.

BTW I'm shocked by some of the examples of his abuse. He's lucky your mother's been around so long, and I really hope she doesn't fall for his lies again.

hopeful4

I would say to form some very strong boundaries with your father. If he calls you intoxicated, tell him to call back when he is sober, and hang up. Follow through. Things of that nature to preserve your own sanity in dealing with this.

I would also say that your mom has to make her own decisions, and live with them. That sounds harsh, but it's also the reality. It's great that you realize you cannot fix them.

Hugs to you.

Amber1991

Thanks guys it’s helping to talk to so many supportive people. I am constantly reminding myself that I have done nothing wrong and it is not my fault and letting that sink in slowly. It’s hard to change years of thinking you are the problem but I’m working on it. My mum is doing so well and sticking to what she wants to do. I have gone around this morning to collect a few things for my mum while my dad was at work but he called me while I was at his house and was very angry yelling abuse about my mother and telling me to get her to call him. I snapped and grabbed every single thing my mum owns and took it in my car. My dad will be returning home from work very shortly and will see that all of my mums possessions are gone. He is not going to respond well to it as he has been waiting on her coming back to the house to collect things which he would use as an opportunity to try to persuade her back. When he realises that opportunity is taken away from him he is going to be livid. I have told my mum to lock the doors is she is staying at her place tonight ( my Mum owns another house from when they previously separated) and if he comes to her house banging down the door to call the police with no hesitation. I have also suggested she get an AVO out on my dad. I know the worst is yet to come and I don’t know how this is going to end for my dad but I hope he can hit rock bottom to build himself back up. Even though I feel that will never happen.

Mark1014

It may never happen, but for sure that's up to him. Meanwhile the rest of you have lives to live.

I'm so glad your mom seems to be doing well, yet do hope she'll keep her wits about her if your dad comes around her place.

Take care.

Bekindalways

I hope you and your mom are okay Amber. You must be old for your years as you have dealt with this so long.

My foster sister's father was alcoholic. It was an eye-opening moment for me when I saw her hang up on her father without saying a word to him. We were both in our mid-twenties. It also shocked me that she wasn't even mad. She must have seen my shock and explained to me that he wouldn't even remember calling. She had two babies at the time and it was obvious that it was a good decision to devote her next 15 minutes to her kids rather than the drunk conversation of her father. She did love him; it just didn't make sense to spend time on him.

Hug to you lady!

Bernadette

Hi Amber-
Welcome!
Glad you found this place, even though what brought you here is sad - lots of experience strength and hope here. And reaching out and sharing your struggle and hearing what others have been through is often a real turning point. Even baby steps will still get you where you want to be!
(((((hugs)))))

B.