What questions would kids have?
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What questions would kids have?
My XAH and I are preparing to speak with our six year old children about his alcoholism. He recently drove drunk with them, and he's agreed to give me short term custody while he focuses on his recovery (he's been dry for 2-3 months at a time since initially pursuing treatment but I don't think he's ever been in real recovery and not sure therefore whether his efforts are for real this time).
We worked with a therapist and a mediator to negotiate a script - it's not ideal, but at this point it's set. That said, one reco we received is to let the kids ask as many questions as they like.
Would like to prep for what these might be - any ideas what they may ask?
As background, XAH is largely functional when he drinks. It manifests mainly in repetitive speech and circular logic - things the average child would not pick up. I do think they realize there are times when their other home is "not normal," and they worry about him when they are at my place. And they have been at my place for about two weeks with several visits from daddy - which is absolutely something they have recognized as pattern disruption.
Here's the "script" - again I know there are things here that aren't ideal but it was as good as could be negotiated and cannot be adjusted:
Daddy has a condition that makes him want to drink alcohol. It's sort of like an allergy - in the same way that Mommy is allergic to cats while Daddy isn't impacted by them, Daddy is "allergic" to alcohol.
When he drinks alcohol, the alcohol makes it so that he cannot think clearly, and so he may make mistakes.
He's working to get better, and we agreed that it makes sense for you both to stay with Mommy while he does.
We've also figured out some ways to make sure that you can see Daddy regularly - so he will be walking you to and from school on some days, and we will be making playdates with him.
Daddy's condition is something personal for him, so it's not for talking to your friends about - but there are lots of adults who would understand and who you CAN talk to about it, if you want to or if you have questions: you can always talk to either of us, to Stepdad, to family members X and Y, or to your social worker at school.
Daddy loves you so much and it is really important for you to both know that his condition and how we've decided to support him in working on it has nothing to do with you guys or what you do or how he feels about you!
What questions do you have?
We worked with a therapist and a mediator to negotiate a script - it's not ideal, but at this point it's set. That said, one reco we received is to let the kids ask as many questions as they like.
Would like to prep for what these might be - any ideas what they may ask?
As background, XAH is largely functional when he drinks. It manifests mainly in repetitive speech and circular logic - things the average child would not pick up. I do think they realize there are times when their other home is "not normal," and they worry about him when they are at my place. And they have been at my place for about two weeks with several visits from daddy - which is absolutely something they have recognized as pattern disruption.
Here's the "script" - again I know there are things here that aren't ideal but it was as good as could be negotiated and cannot be adjusted:
Daddy has a condition that makes him want to drink alcohol. It's sort of like an allergy - in the same way that Mommy is allergic to cats while Daddy isn't impacted by them, Daddy is "allergic" to alcohol.
When he drinks alcohol, the alcohol makes it so that he cannot think clearly, and so he may make mistakes.
He's working to get better, and we agreed that it makes sense for you both to stay with Mommy while he does.
We've also figured out some ways to make sure that you can see Daddy regularly - so he will be walking you to and from school on some days, and we will be making playdates with him.
Daddy's condition is something personal for him, so it's not for talking to your friends about - but there are lots of adults who would understand and who you CAN talk to about it, if you want to or if you have questions: you can always talk to either of us, to Stepdad, to family members X and Y, or to your social worker at school.
Daddy loves you so much and it is really important for you to both know that his condition and how we've decided to support him in working on it has nothing to do with you guys or what you do or how he feels about you!
What questions do you have?
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Here's the "script" - again I know there are things here that aren't ideal but it was as good as could be negotiated and cannot be adjusted:
I wrote a long post about how it could be said better/stuff left out that is not actually true/things that may give your kids false hope etc but if the script cannot be adjusted ( why btw?) it was pointless making suggestions. I also think they are way too young for all that information.
I wrote a long post about how it could be said better/stuff left out that is not actually true/things that may give your kids false hope etc but if the script cannot be adjusted ( why btw?) it was pointless making suggestions. I also think they are way too young for all that information.
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 
Here's the "script" - again I know there are things here that aren't ideal but it was as good as could be negotiated and cannot be adjusted:
I wrote a long post about how it could be said better/stuff left out that is not actually true/things that may give your kids false hope etc but if the script cannot be adjusted ( why btw?) it was pointless making suggestions. I also think they are way too young for all that information.
I wrote a long post about how it could be said better/stuff left out that is not actually true/things that may give your kids false hope etc but if the script cannot be adjusted ( why btw?) it was pointless making suggestions. I also think they are way too young for all that information.
The content is largely driven by what a child therapist felt was age-appropriate.
That's why I was asking for questions that the kids might ask and not recommendations on how to adjust the script. But certainly if you think the script is unclear or would prompt questions that would be valuable to know so I can anticipate and prepare.
I'm not sure what part of this anyone feels is buttered up or offers false hope?
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
One question they might have is: If Daddy is allergic to it, then why doesn't he just stay away from it?
I assume you don't have cats in the house because of your allergy?
I assume you don't have cats in the house because of your allergy?
We don't have cats, but my ex and my husband's ex both do, so they see that I am impacted by allergies even though I try hard to limit my exposure.
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Originally Posted by CoParentToA
"Because his allergy makes him really WANT to drink."
And.... "If he's doing something that's not good for him, why doesn't he stop?"
Just trying to cover the bases.
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Co-parent.....I will just add my thoughts, to this...in the hope that they may be helpful.....
From my experience with 6yr. olds...and, my memory of being a 6yr. old, my self.....
They still think in term that are somewhat concrete...and, they think in term of their own security in short term spans...like 24hr...48hr. periods. And, in short and somewhat simple statements...rather than more sophisticated, complex concepts.
They are not so concerned about HOW the cow ate the cabbage...as they are that the cabbage was eaten...lol....
I learned this from raising my own 3 kids as well as from child development courses, that I had to take.....
they take security from being able to predict in short periods of time...about their security and their immediate needs....
Example....where will I sleep, tonight? Will we have pizza for dinner? Will I go to my school tomorrow? Will Rusty, the dog, be here when I come home? Can I play with Johnny, after school? If I call grandma, will she answer the phone?
Statements can be short, concrete, honest...and, said with confidence. Kids will pick up on the parent's anxiety, in a New York minute....They take their emotional cues from the caretakers....
I have found that kids...especially, that age, don't ask a lot of questions, at first. They tend to "digest" the information, and, then, ask their questions, over time, as they occur to them. As long as they feel like they can ask questions and get honest answers....they will take it at their own pace.....
I think that the simple, essential concepts are enough to start off with.
1. Daddy is not feeling well, and he will be staying in his own house.....
2. Daddy will be visiting (and you can visit him)...and, we will get to see him....
3. He will always be you daddy and you can always get to see him and do things with him....
the questions will follow in their own time.....
Actually, I think that the exact wording of the "script" is rather wordy for a six year old....more like it was designed for an older kid....like teen kid....
do you have to read it off the paper...exact word for word....?
From my experience with 6yr. olds...and, my memory of being a 6yr. old, my self.....
They still think in term that are somewhat concrete...and, they think in term of their own security in short term spans...like 24hr...48hr. periods. And, in short and somewhat simple statements...rather than more sophisticated, complex concepts.
They are not so concerned about HOW the cow ate the cabbage...as they are that the cabbage was eaten...lol....
I learned this from raising my own 3 kids as well as from child development courses, that I had to take.....
they take security from being able to predict in short periods of time...about their security and their immediate needs....
Example....where will I sleep, tonight? Will we have pizza for dinner? Will I go to my school tomorrow? Will Rusty, the dog, be here when I come home? Can I play with Johnny, after school? If I call grandma, will she answer the phone?
Statements can be short, concrete, honest...and, said with confidence. Kids will pick up on the parent's anxiety, in a New York minute....They take their emotional cues from the caretakers....
I have found that kids...especially, that age, don't ask a lot of questions, at first. They tend to "digest" the information, and, then, ask their questions, over time, as they occur to them. As long as they feel like they can ask questions and get honest answers....they will take it at their own pace.....
I think that the simple, essential concepts are enough to start off with.
1. Daddy is not feeling well, and he will be staying in his own house.....
2. Daddy will be visiting (and you can visit him)...and, we will get to see him....
3. He will always be you daddy and you can always get to see him and do things with him....
the questions will follow in their own time.....
Actually, I think that the exact wording of the "script" is rather wordy for a six year old....more like it was designed for an older kid....like teen kid....
do you have to read it off the paper...exact word for word....?
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
"But, if you tell us to stop doing something, we are supposed to stop. Why can't you just tell Daddy to stop?"
And.... "If he's doing something that's not good for him, why doesn't he stop?"
Just trying to cover the bases.
And.... "If he's doing something that's not good for him, why doesn't he stop?"
Just trying to cover the bases.
The most obvious answer is to ask them how often they stop playing with the iPad right away when I ask them to stop. They really want to keep playing and say, "I just want to do this one thing!"
But there's a difference in really wanting to do something versus being addicted, and that's where I think we get into concepts that might be over their heads.
The key things the therapist told us to impart were:
Daddy has an illness that has to do with drinking
It compromises his ability to make good choices
We've agreed you should stay with us while he works on it
It's not your fault
You can see where my ex has made adjustments / additions - e.g. allergy vs illness reference and don't talk with your friends about this. But if we can just get through this first conversation, I can try to be clearer in the way I address questions that come up.
I imagine they will ask how long it will take. They are used to spending half their time with him, so being at my place all the time is a big change.
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It is a shame it has to be so wordy. It would almost seem better to just quote those 4 key things.
The cat analogy might be confusing as a cat allergy bears exactly zero commonality with alcoholism (even if it is considered an allergy).
Unless you are constantly hoarding cats in the house of course.
The cat analogy might be confusing as a cat allergy bears exactly zero commonality with alcoholism (even if it is considered an allergy).
Unless you are constantly hoarding cats in the house of course.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Actually, I think that the exact wording of the "script" is rather wordy for a six year old....more like it was designed for an older kid....like teen kid....
do you have to read it off the paper...exact word for word....?
The therapist definitely felt that it was important to address alcohol use and not just say he was "not feeling well." I am not sure why. But I think that made sense to me because I spent years being perplexed by his confusing behavior prior to realizing that the drinking was the cause. His grandfather was an alcoholic but my ex grew up not realizing, because nobody was willing to name it, only telling him that alcohol was "in his genes."
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I don't think there's ever an easy or perfect non-painful way to talk to children about a parent's alcoholism. The script is the script, so don't worry about it.
I applaud you for not only telling your children the truth, but putting such thought and effort into what's best for them.
Don't think of this as a one shot deal, make or break situation. After I had the initial "talk" with my DS (he was 5 or 6 at the time), he took some time to process it and then had more questions. If I didn't (or don't) know the answer to something I admit it, and we look for the answer together.
Sending lots of strength your way. I know how hard this is when it comes to the impact on the kids.
I applaud you for not only telling your children the truth, but putting such thought and effort into what's best for them.
Don't think of this as a one shot deal, make or break situation. After I had the initial "talk" with my DS (he was 5 or 6 at the time), he took some time to process it and then had more questions. If I didn't (or don't) know the answer to something I admit it, and we look for the answer together.
Sending lots of strength your way. I know how hard this is when it comes to the impact on the kids.
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CoParent......I agree about the phrase "Not feeling well"....I just pulled that one our of my head, at the moment. In reality, I would probably pick a better one---based on what he already knows about his dad or the situation.
lol...I can see that it is obvious that your ex is trying to white wash the subject a bit...and to keep it as secret as possible....
I sympathize with you for wanting to just navigate it through that first conversation.....I know how hard that is.....
I think your ex husband will be harder to deal with than you kids!!!!!!
lol...I can see that it is obvious that your ex is trying to white wash the subject a bit...and to keep it as secret as possible....
I sympathize with you for wanting to just navigate it through that first conversation.....I know how hard that is.....
I think your ex husband will be harder to deal with than you kids!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by CoParentToA
Thanks your feedback is super helpful - and no; we won't be reading right off the script. It's just designed to make sure that my ex and I are aligned on what to say.
The therapist definitely felt that it was important to address alcohol use and not just say he was "not feeling well." I am not sure why. But I think that made sense to me because I spent years being perplexed by his confusing behavior prior to realizing that the drinking was the cause. His grandfather was an alcoholic but my ex grew up not realizing, because nobody was willing to name it, only telling him that alcohol was "in his genes."
The therapist definitely felt that it was important to address alcohol use and not just say he was "not feeling well." I am not sure why. But I think that made sense to me because I spent years being perplexed by his confusing behavior prior to realizing that the drinking was the cause. His grandfather was an alcoholic but my ex grew up not realizing, because nobody was willing to name it, only telling him that alcohol was "in his genes."
Lying and misinformation is worse than the truth, IMO, based on growing up with an alcoholic mom's whose drinking ruled our family life from age 11 for me (8 for my brother) until my 20s....HOW you deliver the truth is important, but kids KNOW when you are lying.
I had other comments to add along what others said, but this is one of the most critical things I can say.
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I didn't want to post earlier, but this is what I have issue with, and since you've brought it up again I will post...
I would refuse to say either of those things. First, it isn't an allergy, it has never been proven to be an allergy - that is 1939 AA gibberish. They didn't know, so that's what was written. In the last nearly 80 years that has not turned out to be true. Yes there is something in our biology/genetics that pre-disposes us to be alcoholic, but it isn't an allergy. It's more of a processing error in the enzymes we produce along with the fact we keep applying alcohol which then leads to a brain issue/mental health problems - way too complicated for kids. He's ill. Mentally and physically.
Second: one of the things that really messed me up as a kid was my mother continually saying "Don't tell anyone, that's a secret." - It separated me from support. That's what abusers do. "Keep our little secret." Sub-text: don't get help. Swallow your pain. Next it will be him asking the kids to keep secrets from you. So destructive. He's just trying to cover his own misbehavior and he's trying to take his kids as hostages.
I would refuse to say either one of those things.
You can see where my ex has made adjustments / additions - e.g. allergy vs illness reference and don't talk with your friends about this. But if we can just get through this first conversation, I can try to be clearer in the way I address questions that come up.
Second: one of the things that really messed me up as a kid was my mother continually saying "Don't tell anyone, that's a secret." - It separated me from support. That's what abusers do. "Keep our little secret." Sub-text: don't get help. Swallow your pain. Next it will be him asking the kids to keep secrets from you. So destructive. He's just trying to cover his own misbehavior and he's trying to take his kids as hostages.
I would refuse to say either one of those things.
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Thanks to all of you. This feedback was really helpful, and it allowed me to have an informed conversation with my ex. He DID agree to change the script a bit - we removed the allergy reference and changed the section about who to talk to so it was less about "this is secret / personal" and more about, if you want to talk about it, the adults in your life that you know and trust are the best ones to talk to, because your friends may not understand.
Will report back tomorrow on how it goes!
Will report back tomorrow on how it goes!
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My kid (nor anyone else) had any clue what my H was an alcoholic. Hid it very well and never drank in front of anyone at home unless we had a get together with friends. He ended up having to go to rehab (due to his profession) and we had zero time to prepare for that since we didn't expect it at all ( he never had a problem stopping). He found out about rehab and he went the next day...
My kid was almost 6.5 at that point. A psychiatrist friend recommended to tell her daddy had a boo boo in his stomach and he needed to go to a special hospital where they could take care of this. This was only because it was so sudden, we knew that wasn't good enough. She just wanted to know if daddy was going to be ok and we said they were gonna take good care of him. She didn't ask anymore questions.
I figured she would ask more questions once we visited him at rehab since it looked nothing like a hospital and he wasn't in a bed. She never said anything.
He ended up having to stay for 90 days. He got out early January so when she and I went skiing for a few days before Xmas I decided I needed to talk to her since she wasn't asking anything. I too had asked for recs on a different forum and I also got the allergy suggestion. And I didn't really feel comfortable with it since it isn't.
The books I got were really helpful. One just talked about a man that came to town and was selling an evil potion to adults that made them happier. As time went on the adults needed more and more of the evil potion because they wouldn't stay happy unless they had the potion. It never mentioned alcohol but the kids were concerned about their parents and they got help from some sort of elf that chased the man out of town and then the adults went back to normal (and granted you can ant just chase alcohol away and not do anything else but for kids I think it makes sense).
The other one I really liked. It was about a girl whose daddy was always drinking when he was upset and he missed out on a lot of stuff because of that and she was always afraid that when he was upset he would drink (which he did). She was also worried when her friends parents were upset that they would react the same but they didn't. It explained how daddy had the alcohol disease which meant that unlike people without it he had no control over the drinking. That he would drink to feel better but once he started he could not stop like "normal" people. And that when daddy would drink he would have different behaviors and be tired. They authors wrote to the girl in the books saying that this was not the girls fault and that there was nothing that she had done that would make daddy drink.
It really helped with explaining it to my kid. She had a few questions but nothing really werid.
I think the kid need to know that it is a disease and that the adult cannot control his drinking because it is a disease and his brain tells him he needs to drink more to feel better even though it doesn't really make him feel better.
Kids need to know that there is absolutely NOTHING they, or anyone else for that matter, did to make the adult do this, because it is a disease and the adult needs to get special help to make him better.
My H was gone for 90 days and she never said anything to anyone about it. Her friends didn't even know her dad was gone (he wasn't around much due to work so it wasn't that unusual ). Once we talked about it I never told her she couldn't tell anybody. In fact I told her she was allowed to talk to her friends about it if she wanted to but she chose not to, not even a year later. My H had to be open about the fact he was an alcoholic (he never had been until then) so I didn't feel like she should have to keep it a secret if she needed to talk to her friends about it. I also told her that she needed to ask us questions if she had any.
I think trying to keep it factual and to the point and short is all they need. Throw too many details at them and they will get confused.
I also highly recommend the Betty ford children's program if youre in CA, TX or CO. It was really good for my daughter (for 7-12 y/o) and it was nice to be around other kids in the same situation, they did an awesome job explaining addiction. It was a 4 day program. If you're not near a center check out the website, the have a series about a boy named Beamer that goes over addiction and feelings and emotions in a very age appropriate and non threatening way. I think you can oreder them.
My kid was almost 6.5 at that point. A psychiatrist friend recommended to tell her daddy had a boo boo in his stomach and he needed to go to a special hospital where they could take care of this. This was only because it was so sudden, we knew that wasn't good enough. She just wanted to know if daddy was going to be ok and we said they were gonna take good care of him. She didn't ask anymore questions.
I figured she would ask more questions once we visited him at rehab since it looked nothing like a hospital and he wasn't in a bed. She never said anything.
He ended up having to stay for 90 days. He got out early January so when she and I went skiing for a few days before Xmas I decided I needed to talk to her since she wasn't asking anything. I too had asked for recs on a different forum and I also got the allergy suggestion. And I didn't really feel comfortable with it since it isn't.
The books I got were really helpful. One just talked about a man that came to town and was selling an evil potion to adults that made them happier. As time went on the adults needed more and more of the evil potion because they wouldn't stay happy unless they had the potion. It never mentioned alcohol but the kids were concerned about their parents and they got help from some sort of elf that chased the man out of town and then the adults went back to normal (and granted you can ant just chase alcohol away and not do anything else but for kids I think it makes sense).
The other one I really liked. It was about a girl whose daddy was always drinking when he was upset and he missed out on a lot of stuff because of that and she was always afraid that when he was upset he would drink (which he did). She was also worried when her friends parents were upset that they would react the same but they didn't. It explained how daddy had the alcohol disease which meant that unlike people without it he had no control over the drinking. That he would drink to feel better but once he started he could not stop like "normal" people. And that when daddy would drink he would have different behaviors and be tired. They authors wrote to the girl in the books saying that this was not the girls fault and that there was nothing that she had done that would make daddy drink.
It really helped with explaining it to my kid. She had a few questions but nothing really werid.
I think the kid need to know that it is a disease and that the adult cannot control his drinking because it is a disease and his brain tells him he needs to drink more to feel better even though it doesn't really make him feel better.
Kids need to know that there is absolutely NOTHING they, or anyone else for that matter, did to make the adult do this, because it is a disease and the adult needs to get special help to make him better.
My H was gone for 90 days and she never said anything to anyone about it. Her friends didn't even know her dad was gone (he wasn't around much due to work so it wasn't that unusual ). Once we talked about it I never told her she couldn't tell anybody. In fact I told her she was allowed to talk to her friends about it if she wanted to but she chose not to, not even a year later. My H had to be open about the fact he was an alcoholic (he never had been until then) so I didn't feel like she should have to keep it a secret if she needed to talk to her friends about it. I also told her that she needed to ask us questions if she had any.
I think trying to keep it factual and to the point and short is all they need. Throw too many details at them and they will get confused.
I also highly recommend the Betty ford children's program if youre in CA, TX or CO. It was really good for my daughter (for 7-12 y/o) and it was nice to be around other kids in the same situation, they did an awesome job explaining addiction. It was a 4 day program. If you're not near a center check out the website, the have a series about a boy named Beamer that goes over addiction and feelings and emotions in a very age appropriate and non threatening way. I think you can oreder them.
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