Helping an employee and employer-employee boundaries
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Helping an employee and employer-employee boundaries
Hi everyone
One of our ~30 employees is an alcoholic. Since he started working for the company ~5 years ago, he has been mostly sober, but every once in a while (1-2 times a year) he goes on a binge, disappears for a few days (longest stint was just over a week, shortest was one day), and then resurfaces. He's a good employee otherwise, does really good work, is very intelligent, clients that he has dealt with are happy with his performance, etc. etc.
We want to help him and support him, but obviously this is problematic and means that we cannot rely on him too much for critical projects. He's becoming a senior team member and should be taking on more responsibilities and leading others (which he actually naturally does to some extent). There's obviously also risk associated with assigning anything critical to him as he may disappear at any point. We're trying to assign projects and tasks to him very selectively to avoid anything that will cause undue pressure or expose us / our clients to undue risk, but this is tricky and becoming more and more difficult.
We've tried to help on previous occasions (e.g. going to his home, helping him clean up, etc.) but the pattern continues and I'm afraid is currently repeating itself. I should also mention that he is currently officially on paid leave so technically not AWOL, I've just become aware of the issue because a concerned family member contacted us because they couldn't get hold of him.
I'm unsure of the best way to handle this. I do really want to help him, but as employer don't want to overstep into his personal life too much. On the other hand if that's what's required then I'm willing to do it, except that my own time and resources are also limited and I have other pressing matters to attend to.
Any thoughts, experiences, etc. that might help?
Thanks in advance, nscd.
One of our ~30 employees is an alcoholic. Since he started working for the company ~5 years ago, he has been mostly sober, but every once in a while (1-2 times a year) he goes on a binge, disappears for a few days (longest stint was just over a week, shortest was one day), and then resurfaces. He's a good employee otherwise, does really good work, is very intelligent, clients that he has dealt with are happy with his performance, etc. etc.
We want to help him and support him, but obviously this is problematic and means that we cannot rely on him too much for critical projects. He's becoming a senior team member and should be taking on more responsibilities and leading others (which he actually naturally does to some extent). There's obviously also risk associated with assigning anything critical to him as he may disappear at any point. We're trying to assign projects and tasks to him very selectively to avoid anything that will cause undue pressure or expose us / our clients to undue risk, but this is tricky and becoming more and more difficult.
We've tried to help on previous occasions (e.g. going to his home, helping him clean up, etc.) but the pattern continues and I'm afraid is currently repeating itself. I should also mention that he is currently officially on paid leave so technically not AWOL, I've just become aware of the issue because a concerned family member contacted us because they couldn't get hold of him.
I'm unsure of the best way to handle this. I do really want to help him, but as employer don't want to overstep into his personal life too much. On the other hand if that's what's required then I'm willing to do it, except that my own time and resources are also limited and I have other pressing matters to attend to.
Any thoughts, experiences, etc. that might help?
Thanks in advance, nscd.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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I'm sorry you are going through this. IMO, I think you are setting up an unfair scenario to the other employees who don't get special treatment especially if he gets a promotion. Tough love is necessary in the work place too.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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nscd.....have you thought of sending him to an outsourced employ assistance program. I say outsourced, because it keeps everything confidential....and, takes you out of the sticky position of delving too much into his personal life.
I assume that you don't have a human resource department...?
Maybe, you could, also contact SHRM organization for details on how to handle this kind of situation.
You could read their literature and/or get one of their recommended consultants to advise you, also......
I assume that you don't have a human resource department...?
Maybe, you could, also contact SHRM organization for details on how to handle this kind of situation.
You could read their literature and/or get one of their recommended consultants to advise you, also......
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
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Hi, nscd,
Welcome.
What you describe seems, to me, like the administration colluding to help the employee avoid the consequences of his actions, and that, in the long run, isn’t good.
Anytime there is a situation where a staff member is being treated differently, for whatever reason, the organization risks resentment from other staff.
Is he that valuable an employee that it’s okay for him to ghost periodically?
If possible, the company should offer detox and rehab.
Other than that, I would treat him as any other employee.
Good luck.
Welcome.
What you describe seems, to me, like the administration colluding to help the employee avoid the consequences of his actions, and that, in the long run, isn’t good.
Anytime there is a situation where a staff member is being treated differently, for whatever reason, the organization risks resentment from other staff.
Is he that valuable an employee that it’s okay for him to ghost periodically?
If possible, the company should offer detox and rehab.
Other than that, I would treat him as any other employee.
Good luck.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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We had this problem at my job. What management did was an intervention with the person, offered to help them pay for rehab, etc. However said that the business was suffering, and the person was obviously suffering as well. That they wanted to help him become the best he could be in life.
Sadly, he did not take the offer and no longer works here. As addiction does, his behaviors escalated and became unsafe and a burden for those around him at work. He was let go, which he remains very bitter about. He blames......the business of course. Many, not all, addicts will not accept responsibility for their own fallout from their own behaviors. All anyone else can do is try, then let go.
Good luck to you!
Sadly, he did not take the offer and no longer works here. As addiction does, his behaviors escalated and became unsafe and a burden for those around him at work. He was let go, which he remains very bitter about. He blames......the business of course. Many, not all, addicts will not accept responsibility for their own fallout from their own behaviors. All anyone else can do is try, then let go.
Good luck to you!
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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What happens to the other 29 employees if they did not show up for work for a week and a ½?
What happens to the other 29 employees if you could not reply on them for critical projects?
What happens to the other 29 employees who are becoming senior team members if they can’t take on more responsibility or (fully) lead others.
What happens to your company if you were unable to assign anything critical to them as they may just disappear at any point?
What happens if you only assign projects and tasks to those 29 other employees so you can avoid them feeling pressured or expose your clients to undue risks?
If once or twice a year the other 29 employees went on a drinking binge and didn’t show up for work what would the consequences be?
The first causalities of addiction are responsibility and accountability. The first causality of codependency is allowing unacceptable behaviors. The second is allowing those behaviors to thrive and grow by enabling them.
What happens to the other 29 employees if you could not reply on them for critical projects?
What happens to the other 29 employees who are becoming senior team members if they can’t take on more responsibility or (fully) lead others.
What happens to your company if you were unable to assign anything critical to them as they may just disappear at any point?
What happens if you only assign projects and tasks to those 29 other employees so you can avoid them feeling pressured or expose your clients to undue risks?
If once or twice a year the other 29 employees went on a drinking binge and didn’t show up for work what would the consequences be?
The first causalities of addiction are responsibility and accountability. The first causality of codependency is allowing unacceptable behaviors. The second is allowing those behaviors to thrive and grow by enabling them.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
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During my drinking days I told a client off in a blackout and was sent to HR. They told me to go to AA, which I grudgingly did for ten days before deciding I'm not an alcoholic. They then fired me (I deserved it) and I finally got sober eight years later. I would offer a rehab or the door, although only a small percent of folks (roughly ten percent) in a rehab stay sober.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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First of all I just really appreciate that you as an employer are even on here asking for advice as to what to do with an employer you see struggling. I respect you a lot for that. I wish I could give you some advice but I'm lost for words on the matter.
The first coarses of action that came to mind was to have a personal chat with him and to just reiterate your feelings and the fact it is putting you in this predicament.
Second was to inform him of your decision that you need to maintain him in a role that you don't deem him a liability and that once he gets back on his feet, that the opportunities will still be there to progress.
I'm afraid that is all the advice I could think of but again I admire you for the way you approached this seeking advice and taking into account employee's situation.
The first coarses of action that came to mind was to have a personal chat with him and to just reiterate your feelings and the fact it is putting you in this predicament.
Second was to inform him of your decision that you need to maintain him in a role that you don't deem him a liability and that once he gets back on his feet, that the opportunities will still be there to progress.
I'm afraid that is all the advice I could think of but again I admire you for the way you approached this seeking advice and taking into account employee's situation.
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Does he drive a company car? Think of the liability if he kills someone while drunk.
Think of the possible loss of business to your company if, in the normal course of business, he spouts off to a client or punches someone (just as an example). Right now, he just disappears when he's plastered - in the future he might just show up at work and go postal.
As much as I appreciate your concern for his well-being (which many employers don't do anymore), you need to look at this from a business perspective.
Think of the possible loss of business to your company if, in the normal course of business, he spouts off to a client or punches someone (just as an example). Right now, he just disappears when he's plastered - in the future he might just show up at work and go postal.
As much as I appreciate your concern for his well-being (which many employers don't do anymore), you need to look at this from a business perspective.
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I don't think tough love is the answer to everything neither at least a window of hope at times can be very helpful just to give that person a moment reflect and think about what they could jeopardise.
It also could be helpful him knowing that you are genuinely concerned and want to support him. It is difficult to say without knowing what stage he is at.
But yes if he is too much of a liability to your self interest then I suppose it leaves you will very little option.
It also could be helpful him knowing that you are genuinely concerned and want to support him. It is difficult to say without knowing what stage he is at.
But yes if he is too much of a liability to your self interest then I suppose it leaves you will very little option.
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1. Alcoholism is a progressive, chronic disease.
2. While active, the disease is what you're dealing with. The employee isn't in charge... his disease is. It will do and say anything to smooth things over or cause discord... whatever may work to keep the addiction in play. Periods of good behavior are often simply to get others to leave the addict/alcoholic alone.
3. Recovery is much more than sobriety.
An offer of a recovery program and sober living situation, with returning to work 6 months later would be a minimum time frame I'd suggest. A 30-60 day program with jumping straight back into old routines, habits and environments are often setting up an alcoholic for a quick relapse, when a recovery program is being pushed by others and not instigated by the person with the disease.
Another way of dealing with this: Instead of judging what the employee needs to do, release him from employment and wish him well. If his actions in the future show he's in recovery from this disease, that would be the time to talk to him more fully about welcome him back into the company.
2. While active, the disease is what you're dealing with. The employee isn't in charge... his disease is. It will do and say anything to smooth things over or cause discord... whatever may work to keep the addiction in play. Periods of good behavior are often simply to get others to leave the addict/alcoholic alone.
3. Recovery is much more than sobriety.
An offer of a recovery program and sober living situation, with returning to work 6 months later would be a minimum time frame I'd suggest. A 30-60 day program with jumping straight back into old routines, habits and environments are often setting up an alcoholic for a quick relapse, when a recovery program is being pushed by others and not instigated by the person with the disease.
Another way of dealing with this: Instead of judging what the employee needs to do, release him from employment and wish him well. If his actions in the future show he's in recovery from this disease, that would be the time to talk to him more fully about welcome him back into the company.
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf22 
I don't think tough love is the answer to everything neither at least a window of hope at times can be very helpful just to give that person a moment reflect and think about what they could jeopardise.
It also could be helpful him knowing that you are genuinely concerned and want to support him. It is difficult to say without knowing what stage he is at.
It also could be helpful him knowing that you are genuinely concerned and want to support him. It is difficult to say without knowing what stage he is at.
What happened to adult responsibility and accountability? He's a paid employee - paid to perform a certain job, and he abandons those responsibilities ever-increasingly. He's freeloading, basically.
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what it boils down to is that you have an unreliable employee who is unable to meet the requirements of his job. you have not overlooked his illness, nor punished him for it, you have gone out of your way to "help" him - to no avail.
i agree that you must look at your work force as a whole and treat each fairly and equally. i've been at my place of employment for 25 years and i wouldn't get a pass on multiple unexcused absences. in fact i got written up a couple reviews ago for "timeliness" or lack thereof.
what does your employer handbook say?
what are the rules and expectations?
it is one thing to make accommodations for certain disabilities, quite another to enable an alcoholic to break the rules. especially YOUR OWN RULES!!
i agree that you must look at your work force as a whole and treat each fairly and equally. i've been at my place of employment for 25 years and i wouldn't get a pass on multiple unexcused absences. in fact i got written up a couple reviews ago for "timeliness" or lack thereof.
what does your employer handbook say?
what are the rules and expectations?
it is one thing to make accommodations for certain disabilities, quite another to enable an alcoholic to break the rules. especially YOUR OWN RULES!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
Hi all. Thanks for all the valuable input so far.
I generalized a few things in my original post that deserve more detail. I should also be more specific about what I hope to get out of this, although simply sharing and reading here has already helped. I should mention I'm also on leave at the moment, so time I'm investing here I'm counting as personal growth :-)
So, some additional info and/or questions:
I generalized a few things in my original post that deserve more detail. I should also be more specific about what I hope to get out of this, although simply sharing and reading here has already helped. I should mention I'm also on leave at the moment, so time I'm investing here I'm counting as personal growth :-)
So, some additional info and/or questions:
- The frequency and length of the AWOL incidents have been decreasing. I checked the records and AWOL days over the years and there have been 0 for 2017, 3 for 2016 (2 incidents), 8 for 2015 (2 incidents), 5 for 2014 (1 incident). He actually started early 2014, so has only been with us 4 years.
- We did give him an official warning that he would be fired if he went AWOL again after the last incident in 2016 (looking back, probably should have done this much earlier). I don't want to ever fire him though, so at this point I'm trying to preempt a situation where it will be necessary (bear in mind, at the moment he is on paid leave, so not AWOL). If I ever do fire him (for this), I would most likely offer him a reappointment if he commits to rehab and wants to return after.
- There was one incident in 2017, where he had a binge over a weekend (~6 months ago), and on the Monday morning he came in (slightly late, but nothing significant) and told us about it and asked for some time off to recover and go to rehab (which we granted as part paid and part unpaid leave). He ended up not doing the rehab, but came back the next day saying he felt bad about dropping a client in the middle of the project.
- I did indicate it's getting trickier, but this is not because he's disappearing more often or for longer, it's because we still have reliability concerns and as he's becoming more senior i.t.o. experience and skill level we would like to apply him in more critical roles more often and having to find low-risk assignments appropriate for his skill level is a challenge that is escalating.
- He does not drive a company car.
- We're a small company without an HR dept, I'm CEO and there's one other executive manager and the 2 of us handle most HR-related matters personally (depending mostly on who the employee reports to and who is available). We care about our employees and we give them a lot of freedom (+ responsibility). This is part of our philosophy, something we pride ourselves on, and something that I believe is overwhelmingly positive for the company in the long run.
- We don't have a rule book and handle things quite informally, but we make sure that everyone understands their responsibilities and that we deal with issues ASAP if they crop up. There is no "if you fail to pitch for work X times, you're fired" rule.
- I don't mind giving tough love if that's what is required. Would love to know from those with experience, given the additional info shared here, whether you still think that's appropriate.
- W.r.t. fairness to other employees: (a) I would most likely simply ignore if I found out anyone else was drunk out of their mind on personal time as long as it didn't affect their work, (b) When other employees have personal issues that require time off or other support from us, we generally provide it. (c) It's not that he's not pulling his weight - he definitely is. On average, he delivers more work than most to a higher standard than most.
- W.r.t. outsourced employee assistance programs - Sounds like a good idea. Didn't really know it existed, so will look into it - thanks!
- One of my concerns is that putting additional stress (which a very critical assignment might do) on him would make matters worse for him. But I also feel I shouldn't treat him differently and for any other employee at his level this would happen without question. Any thoughts on this?
- At this point I'm thinking I should just have a personal chat to him when he gets back (assuming he surfaces). Make sure he understands that any effect on his work won't be tolerated, but also that we're here to support him and that he can take time off for rehab if he wants to. I don't want to force him to go to rehab though, my feeling is it's better if it's his choice.
- Any thoughts on employer paying for, or helping to pay for rehab? I would like him to take responsibility if it gets to this and that would mean he pays, but at the same time I also know it can be costly and don't want him to be avoiding the rehab just because of cost concerns (I suspect this played at least some part the previous time).
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mscd....who says that he has to go to a "rehab" program? There are millions of alcoholics who are living in sobriety because of AA. It is there for him, 24/7...and, it is free. He would have a sponsor and the help of all of the AA members. The majority of rehab programs incorporate AA. anyway....
Rehab, basically, gives the alcoholic the tools...or, introduces them to the tools that they can use in sobriety/recovery.....That is good...but, rehab is not a magic wand that cures a person in a few weeks time. I am not k nocking rehab---because a person who is ready to choose sobriety will take the help anywhere they can find it....But, rehab is not absolutely necessary.
Now...detoxing is a different matter....getting safely and comfortably through the immediate period after putting down the bottle...really needs to be done in a medically supervised setting...or, at least under the care of a medical person...usually a doctor, even if they do it at home. It can be dangerous and it certainly is painful, both physically and mentally. For most people, it is of a much shorter time than rehab....a few days to a week, in majority of cases....where they are monitored and given medication as necessary to keep the withdrawl symptoms at bay....
Some people choose to live in a sober house...similar to the Oxford House model....for several m onths, after rehab or even if they go to AA, only....
It is commonly recommended..."90 in 90".....Ninety AA meetings in 90 days. That helps the alcoholic to get an initial grounding to go forward with in AA and sobriety.....
You can get information through the SHRM organization...it is the professional organization for human resource professionals. I am talking about information, in general.....You can check out their website and get some of their literature.....
Rehab, basically, gives the alcoholic the tools...or, introduces them to the tools that they can use in sobriety/recovery.....That is good...but, rehab is not a magic wand that cures a person in a few weeks time. I am not k nocking rehab---because a person who is ready to choose sobriety will take the help anywhere they can find it....But, rehab is not absolutely necessary.
Now...detoxing is a different matter....getting safely and comfortably through the immediate period after putting down the bottle...really needs to be done in a medically supervised setting...or, at least under the care of a medical person...usually a doctor, even if they do it at home. It can be dangerous and it certainly is painful, both physically and mentally. For most people, it is of a much shorter time than rehab....a few days to a week, in majority of cases....where they are monitored and given medication as necessary to keep the withdrawl symptoms at bay....
Some people choose to live in a sober house...similar to the Oxford House model....for several m onths, after rehab or even if they go to AA, only....
It is commonly recommended..."90 in 90".....Ninety AA meetings in 90 days. That helps the alcoholic to get an initial grounding to go forward with in AA and sobriety.....
You can get information through the SHRM organization...it is the professional organization for human resource professionals. I am talking about information, in general.....You can check out their website and get some of their literature.....
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Just an update for those who followed: The employee did pitch for work on Monday (his first official day back, so all ok there) and his direct manager did have a long chat with him. He has been going to AA meetings, but stopped in November and then during his time off started drinking again. He is now sober for ~72 hours and looking better today than he did yesterday. Also going to AA meetings again.
We're trying to support him as best we can, but have made it clear that any impact on his work is going to be the last straw. Don't want to reveal too many identifying details, but also helped ID a few triggers and helped with suggestions on how to avoid these. Some reluctance in implementing this, but I think in the end he got the point that he's going to have to take responsibility and make some changes that may seem hard at first. We're also helping him put a savings plan in place so that he can afford rehab if he wishes to do this in future.
Thanks for everybody's input. I hope this lasts...
We're trying to support him as best we can, but have made it clear that any impact on his work is going to be the last straw. Don't want to reveal too many identifying details, but also helped ID a few triggers and helped with suggestions on how to avoid these. Some reluctance in implementing this, but I think in the end he got the point that he's going to have to take responsibility and make some changes that may seem hard at first. We're also helping him put a savings plan in place so that he can afford rehab if he wishes to do this in future.
Thanks for everybody's input. I hope this lasts...
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I too, work for a small company in which the boss handles things on a case-by-case basis. He's still fired employees whose drug addiction or behavioral issues became disruptive.
I did indicate it's getting trickier ... because we still have reliability concerns and as he's becoming more senior i.t.o. experience and skill level we would like to apply him in more critical roles more often and having to find low-risk assignments appropriate for his skill level is a challenge that is escalating.
I would suspect that in many companies his reliability issues (drinking or otherwise) would prevent him from obtaining a higher level of responsibility in the company. Period. End of conversation.
I don't want to ever fire him though, so at this point I'm trying to preempt a situation where it will be necessary (bear in mind, at the moment he is on paid leave, so not AWOL). If I ever do fire him (for this), I would most likely offer him a reappointment if he commits to rehab and wants to return after.
If I was in no danger of losing my job permanently, I would have limited motivation to change my behavior.
I would caution you not to construe the silence of his colleagues as acceptance or compassion. Covering for somebody who flakes out periodically is irritating. Seeing him or her promoted in spite of it is motivation for moving on. I quit a job over something like this.
I did indicate it's getting trickier ... because we still have reliability concerns and as he's becoming more senior i.t.o. experience and skill level we would like to apply him in more critical roles more often and having to find low-risk assignments appropriate for his skill level is a challenge that is escalating.
I would suspect that in many companies his reliability issues (drinking or otherwise) would prevent him from obtaining a higher level of responsibility in the company. Period. End of conversation.
I don't want to ever fire him though, so at this point I'm trying to preempt a situation where it will be necessary (bear in mind, at the moment he is on paid leave, so not AWOL). If I ever do fire him (for this), I would most likely offer him a reappointment if he commits to rehab and wants to return after.
If I was in no danger of losing my job permanently, I would have limited motivation to change my behavior.
I would caution you not to construe the silence of his colleagues as acceptance or compassion. Covering for somebody who flakes out periodically is irritating. Seeing him or her promoted in spite of it is motivation for moving on. I quit a job over something like this.
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