Another realization - I think he *wanted* me to be afraid of him.
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Another realization - I think he *wanted* me to be afraid of him.
I was journaling today about the fear that I feel (and have felt for a long time) surrounding my AH. I have been working through it for months and today a brand new realization came to me...
Over the years, my AH would make a point (both when sober and when drinking/drunk) to tell me stories about him committing acts of violence or about him treating people poorly.
Stories of fights - sometimes a decade or more old, sometimes tales from the same day when he was out on some errand and got into a fight with some stranger (that strangely never left any marks on him), sometimes tales of nasty or vindictive things he'd done to an ex or a former friend, stories of him "receiving bad service" at a store or restaurant (when it was really a story of him being the ******* every employee dreads having to deal with), etc. It always annoyed me and I always told him that these stories didn't impress me or make me think well of him, but he persisted.
It occurred to me today that he may have done that to scare me or ensure that I was afraid of him, either consciously or subconsciously. And as soon as I thought it, I knew it was true. There's no other conceivable reason why he would tell me these things other than as a defense mechanism of some kind/he was creating some kind of armor made of my fear and anxiety.
He also had a habit of telling me stories about women at work being interested in him or acting inappropriately toward him because they were attracted to him. I wonder what that was about...
Over the years, my AH would make a point (both when sober and when drinking/drunk) to tell me stories about him committing acts of violence or about him treating people poorly.
Stories of fights - sometimes a decade or more old, sometimes tales from the same day when he was out on some errand and got into a fight with some stranger (that strangely never left any marks on him), sometimes tales of nasty or vindictive things he'd done to an ex or a former friend, stories of him "receiving bad service" at a store or restaurant (when it was really a story of him being the ******* every employee dreads having to deal with), etc. It always annoyed me and I always told him that these stories didn't impress me or make me think well of him, but he persisted.
It occurred to me today that he may have done that to scare me or ensure that I was afraid of him, either consciously or subconsciously. And as soon as I thought it, I knew it was true. There's no other conceivable reason why he would tell me these things other than as a defense mechanism of some kind/he was creating some kind of armor made of my fear and anxiety.
He also had a habit of telling me stories about women at work being interested in him or acting inappropriately toward him because they were attracted to him. I wonder what that was about...
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glenl....my first thought is that he is the one who has/is acting inappropriately to women.....
I think you are right to be afraid of him....your instincts are right....
"Inappropriate" acts toward women..from harassment to rape, is based more on power and entitlement than actual sex.....
This whole subject has a very anti-social vibe....
I think you are right to be afraid of him....your instincts are right....
"Inappropriate" acts toward women..from harassment to rape, is based more on power and entitlement than actual sex.....
This whole subject has a very anti-social vibe....
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
glenl....my first thought is that he is the one who has/is acting inappropriately to women.....
I think you are right to be afraid of him....your instincts are right....
"Inappropriate" acts toward women..from harassment to rape, is based more on power and entitlement than actual sex.....
This whole subject has a very anti-social vibe....
I think you are right to be afraid of him....your instincts are right....
"Inappropriate" acts toward women..from harassment to rape, is based more on power and entitlement than actual sex.....
This whole subject has a very anti-social vibe....
His stories probably come from a place of fear. Alcoholics act a certain way or lie because they might be found out that they are fearful. You know your AH, don't let someone suggest he is inappropriate or a rapist. As an alcoholic, I would believe that he told you about this for a couple of reasons. One he knows he is a drunk and feels he is losing you. He tells you about his tough guy act so you think he is masculine. Then he tells you about other women being interested to make you jealous. I know it sounds ridiculous but an active alcoholic's thinking and behavior is beyond comprehension if you haven't experienced it.
I would agree with one part of the quote, believe your gut. You know your AH but alcoholics lie and manipulate with the best of them. Trust yourself and believe his actions not his words.
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Done4today....I was speaking in general about inappropriate treatment of women.....a general statement on the subject of violence.....
Yes--I get your point that a lot of men "talk"....but, also, a lot of men "do"....
Yes--I get your point that a lot of men "talk"....but, also, a lot of men "do"....
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Originally Posted by Done4today
None of this was stated in her post.
His stories probably come from a place of fear. Alcoholics act a certain way or lie because they might be found out that they are fearful. You know your AH, don't let someone suggest he is inappropriate or a rapist. As an alcoholic, I would believe that he told you about this for a couple of reasons. One he knows he is a drunk and feels he is losing you. He tells you about his tough guy act so you think he is masculine. Then he tells you about other women being interested to make you jealous. I know it sounds ridiculous but an active alcoholic's thinking and behavior is beyond comprehension if you haven't experienced it.
I would agree with one part of the quote, believe your gut. You know your AH but alcoholics lie and manipulate with the best of them. Trust yourself and believe his actions not his words.
His stories probably come from a place of fear. Alcoholics act a certain way or lie because they might be found out that they are fearful. You know your AH, don't let someone suggest he is inappropriate or a rapist. As an alcoholic, I would believe that he told you about this for a couple of reasons. One he knows he is a drunk and feels he is losing you. He tells you about his tough guy act so you think he is masculine. Then he tells you about other women being interested to make you jealous. I know it sounds ridiculous but an active alcoholic's thinking and behavior is beyond comprehension if you haven't experienced it.
I would agree with one part of the quote, believe your gut. You know your AH but alcoholics lie and manipulate with the best of them. Trust yourself and believe his actions not his words.
He was sexually inappropriate and aggressive (groping and being really overt and frankly kind of gross in front of some of my family and a lot of my friends - at my birthday party) with me on the very first day we were together. And I slept with him anyway, the very same day.
I do think the stories about women were intended to make me jealous and likely nothing more, but he does have that behavior somewhere in him. I haven't seen any indication of it in a long time, however.
Now, physical intimidation and violence? Yes, that's in his nature and he acts out frequently. He has broken things in our home but has never raised a hand to me. Very verbally and emotionally abusive though, almost always when drunk. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually escalated to physical violence, which is the primary reason I've ended it.
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Originally Posted by glenl
He also had a habit of telling me stories about women at work being interested in him or acting inappropriately toward him because they were attracted to him. I wonder what that was about...
He never mentioned it again.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
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The idea that he was just "trying to make you jealous" or "trying to show off that he was masculine" really isn't adequate (in my opinion). It's basically just excusing what is bad behavior (I believe). The reason I say this is because I made those excuses for my ex. He was verbally and emotionally abusive (some might call it "manipulative" or more charitably "very selfish"). He also had many excuses for him actions: he was tired, he was in pain, he was anxious, blah blah... whatever. One day, I caught him in the act of the biggest lie. The truth was that there was something inside him, intrinsically part of him, something that he learned from boyhood, that made him think his behavior was okay or that other people deserved it or that it made him more "masculine" (and he always complained about being emasculated... by other men, by women, or by society generally).
Addicts may quack. They may make up 101 excuses for their drug taking behavior. But if you meet someone and within the first few weeks of having met them, they are trying to triangulate you with other women by making you jealous of them, that is about them trying to control your emotions. That they get a kick out of you being uncomfortable, is really not that nice. They could also be trying to isolate you. Imagine if you decided to be friends with the females in his life... they might tell you that he's a d*ck, and he wouldn't want that. People are fallible and not all addicts do this. Only the abusive ones do this.
Saying other women are sexually inappropriate towards him, if it's not true, is basically projecting sexual ideas onto other people -- when he looks at other women, his gaze is sexual. I've met an alcoholic who made sexual comments about his cat. He said that his cat was coming on to him. It was something like this: "look at her rolling around on her back, she wants attention because she is a sl*t". Do you see how disturbing that is? The cat was innocent. It was that particular alcoholic, who was not, and it wasn't because of the alcohol, because at the time he was many years sober.
If you meet someone and within a few weeks of knowing them, they go on about how tough they are to make themselves seem scary, they are trying to tell you that they are scary: the guy said he was scary, therefore, he's a scary guy. It may take years for him to give you a black eye, because his manipulation is effective at controlling you; but it won't take long before he's landing roundhouse kicks in your battered soul.
Abusive people often use drugs or alcohol as an excuse to be abusive or violent. They would be like that if they were sober, but having the drug/alcohol problem gives them an excuse. My ex used his mental health (among other things) as an excuse for violence.
Abusers try very hard to create the conditions in which they feel safe to lash out. So, if you're upset because other women find him "attractive", that gives him a reason to shout at you because you were being "unreasonably jealous". If you are afraid of him because he tells you stories about being tough (which is really about him having control in your relationship), then it's useful for him because over time, you will gradually become less assertive as you walk on eggshells around him. As a result of this, his frustration with your lack of personal accountability gives him a reason to shout at you/ threaten you/ complain about how you make his life awful... etc... and all of this gives him a reason to drug/drink more.
I am glad you trusted your gut. Abusers and drugs/alcohol are a total cluster f... and also incredibly sad because many of them were abused as little boys too. They often experienced some form of chaos from their family of origin, so they try to control their adult environment and the people around them. I say "boys" because the majority of domestic violence perpetrators are male. Although there are women who do it too; however they the minority... for... too many reasons to explain here and this comment is already so long..
I'm glad you got out. If you ever need me to validate your feelings about leaving, send me a PM. The more time you spend away from the situation, the clearer it will become.
You are now seeing his actions for what they were. Previously, with all the gaslighting, and "beclouding" that went on, it was hard to know why he did what he did.
Sorry, very long post. Take what you like and leave the rest. One last thing: probably a good idea to seek out therapy for DV. :-)
Addicts may quack. They may make up 101 excuses for their drug taking behavior. But if you meet someone and within the first few weeks of having met them, they are trying to triangulate you with other women by making you jealous of them, that is about them trying to control your emotions. That they get a kick out of you being uncomfortable, is really not that nice. They could also be trying to isolate you. Imagine if you decided to be friends with the females in his life... they might tell you that he's a d*ck, and he wouldn't want that. People are fallible and not all addicts do this. Only the abusive ones do this.
Saying other women are sexually inappropriate towards him, if it's not true, is basically projecting sexual ideas onto other people -- when he looks at other women, his gaze is sexual. I've met an alcoholic who made sexual comments about his cat. He said that his cat was coming on to him. It was something like this: "look at her rolling around on her back, she wants attention because she is a sl*t". Do you see how disturbing that is? The cat was innocent. It was that particular alcoholic, who was not, and it wasn't because of the alcohol, because at the time he was many years sober.
If you meet someone and within a few weeks of knowing them, they go on about how tough they are to make themselves seem scary, they are trying to tell you that they are scary: the guy said he was scary, therefore, he's a scary guy. It may take years for him to give you a black eye, because his manipulation is effective at controlling you; but it won't take long before he's landing roundhouse kicks in your battered soul.
Abusive people often use drugs or alcohol as an excuse to be abusive or violent. They would be like that if they were sober, but having the drug/alcohol problem gives them an excuse. My ex used his mental health (among other things) as an excuse for violence.
Abusers try very hard to create the conditions in which they feel safe to lash out. So, if you're upset because other women find him "attractive", that gives him a reason to shout at you because you were being "unreasonably jealous". If you are afraid of him because he tells you stories about being tough (which is really about him having control in your relationship), then it's useful for him because over time, you will gradually become less assertive as you walk on eggshells around him. As a result of this, his frustration with your lack of personal accountability gives him a reason to shout at you/ threaten you/ complain about how you make his life awful... etc... and all of this gives him a reason to drug/drink more.
I am glad you trusted your gut. Abusers and drugs/alcohol are a total cluster f... and also incredibly sad because many of them were abused as little boys too. They often experienced some form of chaos from their family of origin, so they try to control their adult environment and the people around them. I say "boys" because the majority of domestic violence perpetrators are male. Although there are women who do it too; however they the minority... for... too many reasons to explain here and this comment is already so long..
I'm glad you got out. If you ever need me to validate your feelings about leaving, send me a PM. The more time you spend away from the situation, the clearer it will become.
You are now seeing his actions for what they were. Previously, with all the gaslighting, and "beclouding" that went on, it was hard to know why he did what he did.
Sorry, very long post. Take what you like and leave the rest. One last thing: probably a good idea to seek out therapy for DV. :-)
Originally Posted by glenl
I appreciate your caution here, but dandylion is likely closer to the truth I'm afraid. Sometimes there are things you just can't accept about a person until you do.
He was sexually inappropriate and aggressive (groping and being really overt and frankly kind of gross in front of some of my family and a lot of my friends - at my birthday party) with me on the very first day we were together. And I slept with him anyway, the very same day.
I do think the stories about women were intended to make me jealous and likely nothing more, but he does have that behavior somewhere in him. I haven't seen any indication of it in a long time, however.
Now, physical intimidation and violence? Yes, that's in his nature and he acts out frequently. He has broken things in our home but has never raised a hand to me. Very verbally and emotionally abusive though, almost always when drunk. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually escalated to physical violence, which is the primary reason I've ended it.
He was sexually inappropriate and aggressive (groping and being really overt and frankly kind of gross in front of some of my family and a lot of my friends - at my birthday party) with me on the very first day we were together. And I slept with him anyway, the very same day.
I do think the stories about women were intended to make me jealous and likely nothing more, but he does have that behavior somewhere in him. I haven't seen any indication of it in a long time, however.
Now, physical intimidation and violence? Yes, that's in his nature and he acts out frequently. He has broken things in our home but has never raised a hand to me. Very verbally and emotionally abusive though, almost always when drunk. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually escalated to physical violence, which is the primary reason I've ended it.
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If you meet someone and within a few weeks of knowing them, they go on about how tough they are to make themselves seem scary, they are trying to tell you that they are scary: the guy said he was scary, therefore, he's a scary guy. It may take years for him to give you a black eye, because his manipulation is effective at controlling you; but it won't take long before he's landing roundhouse kicks in your battered soul.
Abusive people often use drugs or alcohol as an excuse to be abusive or violent. They would be like that if they were sober, but having the drug/alcohol problem gives them an excuse. My ex used his mental health (among other things) as an excuse for violence.
Abusive people often use drugs or alcohol as an excuse to be abusive or violent. They would be like that if they were sober, but having the drug/alcohol problem gives them an excuse. My ex used his mental health (among other things) as an excuse for violence.
That's what pushed me out the door. I couldn't believe I was hiding in a corner thinking that, and I followed that "NOT THIS" right out the front door.
I hadn't considered counseling but I'm sure you are right.
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andyh from Weekenders shared this link for a free mindfulness / stress reduction meditation course online:
https://palousemindfulness.com/
I personally suggest both yoga and massage if that's possible for you--
https://palousemindfulness.com/
I personally suggest both yoga and massage if that's possible for you--
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
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glenl, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that your ex is for certain 100% abusive. I don't know him. I'm also not saying he wasn't covering for fear and insecurity.
What I am saying, is that I believe there is a spectrum of behavior that might lead to a person being physically abusive, if that person has the tendency to be abusive. Please bear in mind that I'm writing from my own personal experience and therefore, my response is biased by that. I was in a situation where I really thought my ex was the sweetest nicest person in the world, and I thought that everyone else victimized him (other men, other women... etc)... . I really felt sorry for him. Of course he was fearful too. He was extremely insecure. Why wouldn't he be? He was trying to hide a drug habit from the world. And then, after years of walking on eggshells around his emotions, he made me fear for my life. He wasn't some big bruiser either... and yet... by the end, I wasn't the only one who thought he was dangerous. He actually did become dangerous. This isn't a character assassination. This is just what happened -- all the desperate events that lead him to his choices and both of us deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of h*ll are not excuses for his behavior, although they might explain it. I had to experience anger before I could come to a place of acceptance of things that had passed. I am still working to accept them. I don't think the progression of my recovery is linear.
Personally, if someone wanted me to feel jealous, or had to show off how tough he was, I would feel quite uncomfortable. I would think that person didn't share my values. For me, that's a red flag. Note: it wasn't before. It is now.
However at this point, it doesn't matter what your ex's motivations are, it matters how his actions make you feel and what you are going to do about your feelings. You are the only person who knows what's what. You've spent enough time thinking about someone else's feelings, now look after your own -- if you feel this was abuse, maybe look into it, think about if it was, trust your judgement, and think about what you should do to stay safe and make your life better.
What I am saying, is that I believe there is a spectrum of behavior that might lead to a person being physically abusive, if that person has the tendency to be abusive. Please bear in mind that I'm writing from my own personal experience and therefore, my response is biased by that. I was in a situation where I really thought my ex was the sweetest nicest person in the world, and I thought that everyone else victimized him (other men, other women... etc)... . I really felt sorry for him. Of course he was fearful too. He was extremely insecure. Why wouldn't he be? He was trying to hide a drug habit from the world. And then, after years of walking on eggshells around his emotions, he made me fear for my life. He wasn't some big bruiser either... and yet... by the end, I wasn't the only one who thought he was dangerous. He actually did become dangerous. This isn't a character assassination. This is just what happened -- all the desperate events that lead him to his choices and both of us deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of h*ll are not excuses for his behavior, although they might explain it. I had to experience anger before I could come to a place of acceptance of things that had passed. I am still working to accept them. I don't think the progression of my recovery is linear.
Personally, if someone wanted me to feel jealous, or had to show off how tough he was, I would feel quite uncomfortable. I would think that person didn't share my values. For me, that's a red flag. Note: it wasn't before. It is now.
However at this point, it doesn't matter what your ex's motivations are, it matters how his actions make you feel and what you are going to do about your feelings. You are the only person who knows what's what. You've spent enough time thinking about someone else's feelings, now look after your own -- if you feel this was abuse, maybe look into it, think about if it was, trust your judgement, and think about what you should do to stay safe and make your life better.
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