Emergency motion for custody
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Emergency motion for custody
This is a repeat of my former post but realize I should have titled it differently given desire for any legal guidance....
I've been in and out of mediation and legal for years with my AXH. Our kids are now 6, and up until now my mediator has recommended agains me filing for custody, in part because my legal case isn't great and in part because the kids are doing well and she thinks a court battle would be worse for them than riding this out.
The big thing convincing her that they were safe - besides the fact that they are old enough to go to the doorman or call me on the iPad - is that he's never driven drunk with them.
Until tonight. My babysitter called me to tell me that he was drunk when he came to pick them up (he had dropped them off, late, less than an hour prior). She refused to let him take them. He claimed he hadn't been drinking, then said only one, then cried and begged her not to tell me because he would lose his kids.
In speaking with the kids, I believe he must have been drunk on Friday when he picked them up from school too. He told them they were skipping an after school class that was a 20 minute drive so they could "hang out."
I am livid.
I know I need to start with our mediator. I don't even know what to threaten. I just want him to give me the kids until he can get his **** together: he did intensive outpatient about 2.5 years ago and was doing well until he discontinued their aftercare program 5-6 months later. Since then he's been cycling thru relapse / discovery / mediation / recommitting to sobriety every 2-3 months (or in other words not actually in recovery).
He's been on Soberlink for a few months at a time - first during his aftercare and then "voluntarily" thru our mediation - and that seems to keep him mostly dry. But after 2-3 months he finds a reason to discontinue and after our last session he refused to go back on it when I told him I knew he had been drinking again. Because he "has to get on with his life."
I've been in and out of mediation and legal for years with my AXH. Our kids are now 6, and up until now my mediator has recommended agains me filing for custody, in part because my legal case isn't great and in part because the kids are doing well and she thinks a court battle would be worse for them than riding this out.
The big thing convincing her that they were safe - besides the fact that they are old enough to go to the doorman or call me on the iPad - is that he's never driven drunk with them.
Until tonight. My babysitter called me to tell me that he was drunk when he came to pick them up (he had dropped them off, late, less than an hour prior). She refused to let him take them. He claimed he hadn't been drinking, then said only one, then cried and begged her not to tell me because he would lose his kids.
In speaking with the kids, I believe he must have been drunk on Friday when he picked them up from school too. He told them they were skipping an after school class that was a 20 minute drive so they could "hang out."
I am livid.
I know I need to start with our mediator. I don't even know what to threaten. I just want him to give me the kids until he can get his **** together: he did intensive outpatient about 2.5 years ago and was doing well until he discontinued their aftercare program 5-6 months later. Since then he's been cycling thru relapse / discovery / mediation / recommitting to sobriety every 2-3 months (or in other words not actually in recovery).
He's been on Soberlink for a few months at a time - first during his aftercare and then "voluntarily" thru our mediation - and that seems to keep him mostly dry. But after 2-3 months he finds a reason to discontinue and after our last session he refused to go back on it when I told him I knew he had been drinking again. Because he "has to get on with his life."
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Rather than focusing on proving that my ex is an alcoholic, I made safety the main "talking" point in my custody case. Not the quantity he drank, but the behavior that invariably resulted, which was a danger to everyone in the home, children and adults alike. He couldn't be depended on to stay sober for any amount of time, even when he was supposed to be taking care of the kids.
My ex refused to voluntarily accept any restrictions on his drinking during visitation, and he and his wife swore that he had learned to control it (well, first they said he quit completely, but changed the story in court). All the excesses during our relationship were due to me being a horrible person, violently abusing him, etc. That's why we ended up in court. The options I offered in mediation would have been much easier than what the court ended up ordering, but they were sure their act would convince everyone.
Have you had a chance to talk to a lawyer about this? I can only speak to what happened in my custody case, and you need legitimate legal advice to navigate this situation.
My ex refused to voluntarily accept any restrictions on his drinking during visitation, and he and his wife swore that he had learned to control it (well, first they said he quit completely, but changed the story in court). All the excesses during our relationship were due to me being a horrible person, violently abusing him, etc. That's why we ended up in court. The options I offered in mediation would have been much easier than what the court ended up ordering, but they were sure their act would convince everyone.
Have you had a chance to talk to a lawyer about this? I can only speak to what happened in my custody case, and you need legitimate legal advice to navigate this situation.
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Originally Posted by CoParentToA 
This is a repeat of my former post but realize I should have titled it differently given desire for any legal guidance....
Sounds like a dangerous situation to me, and one that you are right not to ignore.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
Rather than focusing on proving that my ex is an alcoholic, I made safety the main "talking" point in my custody case. Not the quantity he drank, but the behavior that invariably resulted, which was a danger to everyone in the home, children and adults alike.
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Sorry for not being clear - I have both an attorney and a mediator but my JPA requires I contact the mediator before taking court action.
My attorney is aware and ready to file. The trick is to see if we can get a mediator to convince him to take an action without pursuing in court.
My attorney is aware and ready to file. The trick is to see if we can get a mediator to convince him to take an action without pursuing in court.
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I think what I'm trying to figure out is what to ask for in mediation.
With a court order we would seek to limit him to supervised parenting time and probably request a guardian who would represent their best interests moving forward. I have a hard time thinking of what he could offer to make me feel like I shouldn't go to court.
SoberLink gave some measure of security but I was always worried he was gaming the system and we have seen this movie before. I'm guessing that's what he will offer this time around, but I want to say, sorry no. I'm taking the twins for the foreseeable future while you get yourself together. Once you're sober we will discuss again.
He has a disease that lies to him and it has progressed to the point where the lies he believes are outrageous and put the kids in danger.
With a court order we would seek to limit him to supervised parenting time and probably request a guardian who would represent their best interests moving forward. I have a hard time thinking of what he could offer to make me feel like I shouldn't go to court.
SoberLink gave some measure of security but I was always worried he was gaming the system and we have seen this movie before. I'm guessing that's what he will offer this time around, but I want to say, sorry no. I'm taking the twins for the foreseeable future while you get yourself together. Once you're sober we will discuss again.
He has a disease that lies to him and it has progressed to the point where the lies he believes are outrageous and put the kids in danger.
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the lies he believes are outrageous and put the kids in danger.
except he knew absolutely he had f'd up when the babysitter would not let him have the children. he "cried" and asked her not to tell as he KNEW his ACTIONS could jeopardize his access to his children.
HE KNEW. he had choices, he knows what he needs to do to ensure his access to his children. he did not take any of those life rings thrown to him.
he is not helpless in this addiction. i would not grant him another chance. the health and well being of the children of this alcoholic are at stake.
except he knew absolutely he had f'd up when the babysitter would not let him have the children. he "cried" and asked her not to tell as he KNEW his ACTIONS could jeopardize his access to his children.
HE KNEW. he had choices, he knows what he needs to do to ensure his access to his children. he did not take any of those life rings thrown to him.
he is not helpless in this addiction. i would not grant him another chance. the health and well being of the children of this alcoholic are at stake.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
the lies he believes are outrageous and put the kids in danger.
except he knew absolutely he had f'd up when the babysitter would not let him have the children. he "cried" and asked her not to tell as he KNEW his ACTIONS could jeopardize his access to his children.
HE KNEW. he had choices, he knows what he needs to do to ensure his access to his children. he did not take any of those life rings thrown to him.
he is not helpless in this addiction. i would not grant him another chance. the health and well being of the children of this alcoholic are at stake.
except he knew absolutely he had f'd up when the babysitter would not let him have the children. he "cried" and asked her not to tell as he KNEW his ACTIONS could jeopardize his access to his children.
HE KNEW. he had choices, he knows what he needs to do to ensure his access to his children. he did not take any of those life rings thrown to him.
he is not helpless in this addiction. i would not grant him another chance. the health and well being of the children of this alcoholic are at stake.
Just hung up with the mediator. She was great. He admitted that he had a drink after dropping the twins at their party. I believe that not at all, but she said it didn't matter because one drink is one too many.
He offered to do SoberLink in 17 different variations and I said no.
She got him to agree to short term supervised parenting time thru the holidays while we enlist attorneys to figure out a longer term plan.
So they are out of immediate danger and we have sidestepped court - for now.
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From my limited experience, a lot of mediators won't work with addicts who are still actively using because, well, they're not rational and don't adhere to agreements reached in mediation (as soon as they're drunk/high again, the agreement goes out the window). So I would not put a whole lot of effort into finding a mediated solution. If your agreement says that you have to mediate before going to court, I would see it as just a hoop to jump through.
With respect to materials for court - I echo other posters who say "focus on the describing the behavior". It's not really relevant how much your ex drinks or how many times he's gone through rehab, only his observed behavior around the kids. My experience has been that writing things out in very short declarative sentences with no speculation or inference (and minimal use of adjectives and adverbs) is persuasive, e.g. :
"At [time, date], Ex knocked on the door of [babysitter]. Babysitter observed that ex was [stumbling, slurring words, smelled of alcohol]. Babysitter said '[exact words babysitter said]. Babysitter reported that ex said '[exact words that babysitter used reporting what ex said]'. At [time] I arrived at babysitters' house to collect children. [Child's name] said '[exact words that child said]'.
etc, etc. Any judge who's been around the block more than once can fill in the picture. Addicts tend to talk in speculation, promises, commitments, emotional logic, generalizations, etc., so if your account is extremely concrete and matter-of-fact with no editorializing, it will be credible in contrast.
My own experience with considering emergency motions is that unless you or the children are in immediate danger, it's not an "emergency". So if the kids are with you and your ex isn't threatening you or them, you may not get too far with an attempt at an emergency motion. (This is why I keep hoping my ex will throw rocks at my car - if there's an immediate threat, I could seek a motion that would be much faster than dragging through the regular court system). Of course your mileage may vary and my experience may not be applicable to the legal system in your jurisdiction).
With respect to materials for court - I echo other posters who say "focus on the describing the behavior". It's not really relevant how much your ex drinks or how many times he's gone through rehab, only his observed behavior around the kids. My experience has been that writing things out in very short declarative sentences with no speculation or inference (and minimal use of adjectives and adverbs) is persuasive, e.g. :
"At [time, date], Ex knocked on the door of [babysitter]. Babysitter observed that ex was [stumbling, slurring words, smelled of alcohol]. Babysitter said '[exact words babysitter said]. Babysitter reported that ex said '[exact words that babysitter used reporting what ex said]'. At [time] I arrived at babysitters' house to collect children. [Child's name] said '[exact words that child said]'.
etc, etc. Any judge who's been around the block more than once can fill in the picture. Addicts tend to talk in speculation, promises, commitments, emotional logic, generalizations, etc., so if your account is extremely concrete and matter-of-fact with no editorializing, it will be credible in contrast.
My own experience with considering emergency motions is that unless you or the children are in immediate danger, it's not an "emergency". So if the kids are with you and your ex isn't threatening you or them, you may not get too far with an attempt at an emergency motion. (This is why I keep hoping my ex will throw rocks at my car - if there's an immediate threat, I could seek a motion that would be much faster than dragging through the regular court system). Of course your mileage may vary and my experience may not be applicable to the legal system in your jurisdiction).
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Originally Posted by CoParentToA
Absolutely. And we have cycled thru this one too many times for me to be willing to get on the same ride.
Just hung up with the mediator. She was great. He admitted that he had a drink after dropping the twins at their party. I believe that not at all, but she said it didn't matter because one drink is one too many.
He offered to do SoberLink in 17 different variations and I said no.
She got him to agree to short term supervised parenting time thru the holidays while we enlist attorneys to figure out a longer term plan.
So they are out of immediate danger and we have sidestepped court - for now.
Just hung up with the mediator. She was great. He admitted that he had a drink after dropping the twins at their party. I believe that not at all, but she said it didn't matter because one drink is one too many.
He offered to do SoberLink in 17 different variations and I said no.
She got him to agree to short term supervised parenting time thru the holidays while we enlist attorneys to figure out a longer term plan.
So they are out of immediate danger and we have sidestepped court - for now.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
It will 100% depend on how the judges in your area view substance abuse. Some could not care less, especially about drinking. Others take it very seriously. Get an attorney's advise, and also find out who your judge would be, and go sit in the court room during some family court sessions. That would tell a lot.
Family court has a HUGE amount of discretion, throw law out the window many times, an d can be wonderful, or awful.
Huge hugs to you.
Family court has a HUGE amount of discretion, throw law out the window many times, an d can be wonderful, or awful.
Huge hugs to you.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 193
[QUOTE=hopeful4;6713207]It will 100% depend on how the judges in your area view substance abuse. Some could not care less, especially about drinking. Others take it very seriously. Get an attorney's advise, and also find out who your judge would be, and go sit in the court room during some family court sessions. That would tell a lot.
Family court has a HUGE amount of discretion, throw law out the window many times, an d can be wonderful, or awful.
Huge hugs to you.[/QUOT
My attorney is going to check on our assigned judge. I think the Medes i
Family court has a HUGE amount of discretion, throw law out the window many times, an d can be wonderful, or awful.
Huge hugs to you.[/QUOT
My attorney is going to check on our assigned judge. I think the Medes i
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Looks like we are going to court after all. Suddenly he doesn't agree with what he agreed on Sunday night.
My attorney's motion is 73 points long and spans a history of alcohol abuse and questionable behavior since 2014. Only thing that may work against us is that the latest driving was the only thing that put the twins in clear danger.
We will give his atty notice tomorrow am and file on Thurs am.
Ughhhhh
My attorney's motion is 73 points long and spans a history of alcohol abuse and questionable behavior since 2014. Only thing that may work against us is that the latest driving was the only thing that put the twins in clear danger.
We will give his atty notice tomorrow am and file on Thurs am.
Ughhhhh
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She is awesome, and I am proud of her because it took a while for her to stop covering for him or trying to protect him.
I think part of the reason he is fighting this is because he doesn't want his family to know he relapsed and he definitely doesn't want them to know he drove with them while drinking. It ruins his "I've never put the kids in danger" narrative that I know he's successfully convinced them of.
His sister knows already, but she hasn't told him she knows because history shows her involvement gets him more agitated.
So I am thinking of emailing her and his parents with him on cc to tell them what's up, simply to remove this as a factor in his consideration.
And also, if I am honest, to divert his focus from prepping for a court battle as he has to deal with them.
That said it could backfire. I think I will wait to see how he responds to the notification we plan to file an emergency motion.
I think part of the reason he is fighting this is because he doesn't want his family to know he relapsed and he definitely doesn't want them to know he drove with them while drinking. It ruins his "I've never put the kids in danger" narrative that I know he's successfully convinced them of.
His sister knows already, but she hasn't told him she knows because history shows her involvement gets him more agitated.
So I am thinking of emailing her and his parents with him on cc to tell them what's up, simply to remove this as a factor in his consideration.
And also, if I am honest, to divert his focus from prepping for a court battle as he has to deal with them.
That said it could backfire. I think I will wait to see how he responds to the notification we plan to file an emergency motion.
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