AA Big Book discussion
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Minnesota, USA
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AA Big Book discussion
Hi Yall.
I am looking for your interpretation, experience, strength, hope for this question...
I would like to add that I am in NO WAY, shape or form looking to drink, finding an excuse, reason, or anything. I am Sober and continue to be.
However, someone told me in the BB that there was a suggestion that if you think you are not an alcoholic, to read page 31 as it is suggested to try moderation drinking...
So, I looked it up. And I'll be damned... It is in there... Here is the quote.
"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition"
I am not trying to pick the book apart, but I feel that if you think you are an alcoholic, there had to be something to bring you to the rooms. And I feel this leaves room for relapse... With an excuse at that... A blame game, the book said so, and so on. And this is within the first 167 pages which are the most important.
Can you shed some light... I am just trying to understand
I think I also bring this up because my boyfriend, who is a normie, just doesn't totally get it. Alanon, I get it, he won't go.
He seems to think, that any alcoholic who stops drinking needs to find the root of the drinking, as if there is one besides addiction... That there is a root cause of it and once that is found and dealt with, that one could at that point drink again. (I am not asking for relationship advice, I know I am an alcoholic and have accepted I can never drink again, that is not the issue, he doesn't pressure me, and is not enabling me, we have good conversations about it, where I am not swayed into his thinking)
I look forward to your thoughts
Maybe this needs to be move, if that is the case, thank you in advance Dee!
I am looking for your interpretation, experience, strength, hope for this question...
I would like to add that I am in NO WAY, shape or form looking to drink, finding an excuse, reason, or anything. I am Sober and continue to be.
However, someone told me in the BB that there was a suggestion that if you think you are not an alcoholic, to read page 31 as it is suggested to try moderation drinking...
So, I looked it up. And I'll be damned... It is in there... Here is the quote.
"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition"
I am not trying to pick the book apart, but I feel that if you think you are an alcoholic, there had to be something to bring you to the rooms. And I feel this leaves room for relapse... With an excuse at that... A blame game, the book said so, and so on. And this is within the first 167 pages which are the most important.
Can you shed some light... I am just trying to understand
I think I also bring this up because my boyfriend, who is a normie, just doesn't totally get it. Alanon, I get it, he won't go.
He seems to think, that any alcoholic who stops drinking needs to find the root of the drinking, as if there is one besides addiction... That there is a root cause of it and once that is found and dealt with, that one could at that point drink again. (I am not asking for relationship advice, I know I am an alcoholic and have accepted I can never drink again, that is not the issue, he doesn't pressure me, and is not enabling me, we have good conversations about it, where I am not swayed into his thinking)
I look forward to your thoughts
Maybe this needs to be move, if that is the case, thank you in advance Dee!
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Location: UK
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Well, I suppose a lot of the time people only realise they're not an alcoholic once they've tried to prove to themselves that they're not.
Without acceptance of the fact we're alcoholics we really aren't ready to strive for long term sobriety or work a program of recovery as we'll just keep telling ourselves that ' that stuff is just for real alcoholics'.
People who want to go out for a last go, or try again go be 'normal' drinkers, considering their switch to be reset (haha - as if!!) will tend to do just that anyway.
I feel that its more a statement of 'acceptance' of the unfortunate truth of the matter the fact that an alcoholic in denial is unteachable rather than encouragement for people who aren't in denial to go do it.
But there are folk around here who know and understand much more than I do. Might be worth posting the question on the 12-step area as well.
BB
Without acceptance of the fact we're alcoholics we really aren't ready to strive for long term sobriety or work a program of recovery as we'll just keep telling ourselves that ' that stuff is just for real alcoholics'.
People who want to go out for a last go, or try again go be 'normal' drinkers, considering their switch to be reset (haha - as if!!) will tend to do just that anyway.
I feel that its more a statement of 'acceptance' of the unfortunate truth of the matter the fact that an alcoholic in denial is unteachable rather than encouragement for people who aren't in denial to go do it.
But there are folk around here who know and understand much more than I do. Might be worth posting the question on the 12-step area as well.
BB
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
I read it too and at first, like you thought WTF. However, if you know you are an alcoholic, you read that and think the writer is daft, of course you cannot go drink without being able to stop. I see it as another way to drive home, you are powerless. So in that way, because it is a pause to consider and think WTF is this in the book for, it reinforces that concept, that you are powerless to booze. If you haven't accepted that and you go get blitzed, then you weren't ready to continue on. As you read the book, you will find a few more of those. I think because the reading can be a bit tedious, those pauses are there to wake you up and make sure you are paying attention.
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Originally Posted by MyLittleHorsie 
. I think because the reading can be a bit tedious, those pauses are there to wake you up and make sure you are paying attention.
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Originally Posted by Berrybean
Well, I suppose a lot of the time people only realise they're not an alcoholic once they've tried to prove to themselves that they're not.
Without acceptance of the fact we're alcoholics we really aren't ready to strive for long term sobriety or work a program of recovery as we'll just keep telling ourselves that ' that stuff is just for real alcoholics'.
People who want to go out for a last go, or try again go be 'normal' drinkers, considering their switch to be reset (haha - as if!!) will tend to do just that anyway.
I feel that its more a statement of 'acceptance' of the unfortunate truth of the matter the fact that an alcoholic in denial is unteachable rather than encouragement for people who aren't in denial to go do it.
But there are folk around here who know and understand much more than I do. Might be worth posting the question on the 12-step area as well.
BB
Without acceptance of the fact we're alcoholics we really aren't ready to strive for long term sobriety or work a program of recovery as we'll just keep telling ourselves that ' that stuff is just for real alcoholics'.
People who want to go out for a last go, or try again go be 'normal' drinkers, considering their switch to be reset (haha - as if!!) will tend to do just that anyway.
I feel that its more a statement of 'acceptance' of the unfortunate truth of the matter the fact that an alcoholic in denial is unteachable rather than encouragement for people who aren't in denial to go do it.
But there are folk around here who know and understand much more than I do. Might be worth posting the question on the 12-step area as well.
BB
That is a great point, thank you !
Make the most of it. It's pretty much a bi-annual event! Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I'd mention a couple things: one, the BB describes a type of "heavy drinker" who is NOT an alcoholic. To paraphrase, this is a person who possibly quits because of illness, circumstances, etc and NOT because they must accept their alcoholism.
Also, AA is a program of attraction not promotion. So, if our suggested way doesn't work for you, it is suggested that you try other things and see what happens; AA followers generally expect to see you back in the rooms. Also, the BB talks about trying to work with someone, and if they are not ready - to leave it be and let the door be open for them to approach you later.
Also....you may or may not know- or admit- that you are an alcoholic when you first come to the rooms. Not seeing the reality of your situation as one like any other alcoholic's - you can't take that "controlled approach" is so common that there are expressions like "he went out for more research."
Just my $0.02.
Also, AA is a program of attraction not promotion. So, if our suggested way doesn't work for you, it is suggested that you try other things and see what happens; AA followers generally expect to see you back in the rooms. Also, the BB talks about trying to work with someone, and if they are not ready - to leave it be and let the door be open for them to approach you later.
Also....you may or may not know- or admit- that you are an alcoholic when you first come to the rooms. Not seeing the reality of your situation as one like any other alcoholic's - you can't take that "controlled approach" is so common that there are expressions like "he went out for more research."
Just my $0.02.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
I certainly tried to moderate my drinking for many years as is common. The statement underlines the fact that no one else can declare us alcoholic - it is incumbent on the individual.
We had to concede to our inner most self that we were alcoholic. This is the first step in recovery.
The statement you quoted isn't meant as a dare, as in go ahead - try to! Remember, the book is autobiographically. This is precisely how we recovered. So the point is this is what most of us did.
Once we understand we are alcoholic, regardless of good day or bad - we are simply an alcoholic having a good day or bad. All we have is a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of our spirtual condition, right?
Thank you for the thread - this statement is often misunderstood.
We had to concede to our inner most self that we were alcoholic. This is the first step in recovery.
The statement you quoted isn't meant as a dare, as in go ahead - try to! Remember, the book is autobiographically. This is precisely how we recovered. So the point is this is what most of us did.
Once we understand we are alcoholic, regardless of good day or bad - we are simply an alcoholic having a good day or bad. All we have is a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of our spirtual condition, right?
Thank you for the thread - this statement is often misunderstood.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher17
I feel that if you think you are an alcoholic, there had to be something to bring you to the rooms.
Can you shed some light... I am just trying to understand
Can you shed some light... I am just trying to understand
The second thing that brings many people into the rooms of AA is very often far less apparent. It has to do with a certain sense of emptiness that often fuels the desire to drink in the first place. This is what the steps of AA are designed to address. I am often reminded of a letter from Carl Jung to Bill Wilson that speaks to this. It's my favorite piece of AA history.
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Originally Posted by DreamCatcher17
I think I also bring this up because my boyfriend, who is a normie, just doesn't totally get it.
He seems to think, that any alcoholic who stops drinking needs to find the root of the drinking, as if there is one besides addiction... That there is a root cause of it and once that is found and dealt with, that one could at that point drink again.
He seems to think, that any alcoholic who stops drinking needs to find the root of the drinking, as if there is one besides addiction... That there is a root cause of it and once that is found and dealt with, that one could at that point drink again.
Hope you find light in this. All the best to you.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
My last drinking session was based on that passage. Despite having a ton of evidence that I was alcholic, I remained unconvinced. I decided to put it to the test by having a couple of beers, and be home by 6.00. I got home by 6.00, just four days later.
That experiment convinced me that I had the phenomenon of craving described in the book, that never occurs in normal drinkers. Once I started I was in the grip of a craving that was beyond my power to control.
That in itself was enough to diagnose alcholism, but the other aspect which I could accept was that on countless occasions I had been powerless to not take the first drink. Though swearing off in the orning in total sincerity, I would be drinking in the afternoon and often not even remember taking the first drink.
Put those two things together and I was completely hopeless, which was just the right motivation to whole heartedly get into action with the program of recovery. Narrowing the options down to a simple choice, face an alcholic death or learn to live on a spiritual basis, certainly makes it simple to set priorities.
That experiment convinced me that I had the phenomenon of craving described in the book, that never occurs in normal drinkers. Once I started I was in the grip of a craving that was beyond my power to control.
That in itself was enough to diagnose alcholism, but the other aspect which I could accept was that on countless occasions I had been powerless to not take the first drink. Though swearing off in the orning in total sincerity, I would be drinking in the afternoon and often not even remember taking the first drink.
Put those two things together and I was completely hopeless, which was just the right motivation to whole heartedly get into action with the program of recovery. Narrowing the options down to a simple choice, face an alcholic death or learn to live on a spiritual basis, certainly makes it simple to set priorities.
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