Things you might hear in a meeting
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
Things you might hear in a meeting
How do you reconcile yourself if it is something that goes against your moral grain?
Ex. I have a friend who got his second impaired last year, I cut him off completely. I will never have anything to do with him ever again. In my mind, there is never an excuse. Or someone who has lost their children due to actions when they were drunk or otherwise impaired.
I am an alcoholic, but I always had enough control to never drink when I was alone with my kids and never drive when impaired. If I had a couple afternoon glasses of wine with a gf, I always stopped if my husband wasn't home, nobody wants to be the drunk Mom if something happens.
How do you set aside what you believe in and listen to someone and feel empathy, even though you know how debilitating alcohol is, but you are completely conflicted because yes, it is the disease talking, but everyone makes a choice to do things.
When I was married to my ex., I used to wonder why he never stopped drinking before he got addicted, before he went too far. Yes, once I caught him driving impaired and I called the cops and had him arrested. I always have a VISA on me and if it costs me $100 in cab fares to ensure I get home and back to pick up my car the next day safe, it is what it is. If I had a reason not to drink and I had a few, like watching my kids, going camping (I'm the annoying person up at 5am to go fishing LOL) I stopped.
My son is named after a friend who was killed by an impaired driver, my husband lost 3 classmates, including his cousin because of an impaired driver.
How do you lose the judgement, enough to be a good member.
Please no flames, it is honestly one of the reasons I am scared of a face to face meeting, what if I got a sponsor who was a drunk driver. What if someone shared and everyone else in the room is saying, good share, thank you and I throat punch the person? (The last part is a joke
)
Ex. I have a friend who got his second impaired last year, I cut him off completely. I will never have anything to do with him ever again. In my mind, there is never an excuse. Or someone who has lost their children due to actions when they were drunk or otherwise impaired.
I am an alcoholic, but I always had enough control to never drink when I was alone with my kids and never drive when impaired. If I had a couple afternoon glasses of wine with a gf, I always stopped if my husband wasn't home, nobody wants to be the drunk Mom if something happens.
How do you set aside what you believe in and listen to someone and feel empathy, even though you know how debilitating alcohol is, but you are completely conflicted because yes, it is the disease talking, but everyone makes a choice to do things.
When I was married to my ex., I used to wonder why he never stopped drinking before he got addicted, before he went too far. Yes, once I caught him driving impaired and I called the cops and had him arrested. I always have a VISA on me and if it costs me $100 in cab fares to ensure I get home and back to pick up my car the next day safe, it is what it is. If I had a reason not to drink and I had a few, like watching my kids, going camping (I'm the annoying person up at 5am to go fishing LOL) I stopped.
My son is named after a friend who was killed by an impaired driver, my husband lost 3 classmates, including his cousin because of an impaired driver.
How do you lose the judgement, enough to be a good member.
Please no flames, it is honestly one of the reasons I am scared of a face to face meeting, what if I got a sponsor who was a drunk driver. What if someone shared and everyone else in the room is saying, good share, thank you and I throat punch the person? (The last part is a joke
)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
sometimes you can't. there are people in meetings who i think are not genuinely GOOD people. i say the ABCs in my head when they share. I go to meetings for my recovery. i ask god to keep me in my seat, regardless of who else is in the meeting, because for me, to drink is to die. AA is like any other group of people -- -you would be kidding yourself if you felt you had to like everyone in the hall. also - re: the sponsor thing, you can choose your sponsor, and if at any time you don't like your sponsor...you can pick another. This is not the mafia. You can opt out of anything you do not like.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
I try to remember that I am pretty sure that at some time I have done things that go against the moral grain of someone else. I try to remember that I am far from a perfect example of my own moral code. I am trying, but I ain't there yet. I don't believe my higher power judges me, so I try to extend that line of thinking to other people.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,068
Wow - this is a tough act to follow. I don't want to flame you because that's not productive behavior but i'm not going to support your view either. I just wish you attend my church when the priest gave a homily on forgiving others.
You can and probably will meet "bad" people in the rooms of AA. You will also meet "good" people who have done "bad" things. If you can't accept that you probably should skip AA. But if you "always had enough control" perhaps you do not really need it.
You can and probably will meet "bad" people in the rooms of AA. You will also meet "good" people who have done "bad" things. If you can't accept that you probably should skip AA. But if you "always had enough control" perhaps you do not really need it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,468
At AA, I take what I need and leave the rest. I also try not to judge other people as I do not know the entire story, and I have done some bad things in my life, so who am I to judge someone else.
I will judge someone on how they treat me, as that is directed towards me. At that point, I will evaluate them to see if they make the cut to be in my life. If our values do not align, it won't work. This goes for people at AA, a sponsor, a friend, a co-worker. I get to decide who I share my life with. So do you.
There are a lot of people who were less responsible then you while drinking. Everyone has a story and journey, maybe be a little less critical? I am sure we all have enough guilt we don't need it from someone else. If that is not possible, maybe online forums would be best for you as you don't have to reply to those who offend your moral code. - Said empathetically.
I will judge someone on how they treat me, as that is directed towards me. At that point, I will evaluate them to see if they make the cut to be in my life. If our values do not align, it won't work. This goes for people at AA, a sponsor, a friend, a co-worker. I get to decide who I share my life with. So do you.
There are a lot of people who were less responsible then you while drinking. Everyone has a story and journey, maybe be a little less critical? I am sure we all have enough guilt we don't need it from someone else. If that is not possible, maybe online forums would be best for you as you don't have to reply to those who offend your moral code. - Said empathetically.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
For me what other people do is really not my business. I'm not here because I am the hot bed of good decision making and mental health. I have enough character defects of my own....I don't have to focus on the deficits of others.
I hear things in AA that are at times tough. I guess I applaud anyone, no matter what they have done, that is trying to better themselves. Who knows....maybe something that you or I share could radically change someones life. Maybe by asking someone who you think is 'morally adrift'...How can I help? You could be the catalyst for change? That is, after all, kinda the whole point.
I hear things in AA that are at times tough. I guess I applaud anyone, no matter what they have done, that is trying to better themselves. Who knows....maybe something that you or I share could radically change someones life. Maybe by asking someone who you think is 'morally adrift'...How can I help? You could be the catalyst for change? That is, after all, kinda the whole point.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Good for you. You managed to never drive drunk.
Many of us can't say the same.
It's a major reason why I got sober, before I hurt myself or someone else. DUI or a bad accident were a matter of time.
The urge to drink is not logical or rational. The urge to drink more is even less so, and actions in a state of extremely drunk, especially a blackout, someone has little to no control what happens. Nearly all head-on wrong way freeway collisions involve a driver in a blackout.
I had a problem, which included very dangerous behavior. As soon as I was able to recognize that I was an addict/alcoholic, I fixed it.
Do I go against your "moral grain?" Have you done NOTHING while impaired that others, particularly normies, would find morally incomprehensible?
This is not a productive attitude for people who are trying to get well. The past, no matter how bad our actions were, is not fixable. There are usually consequences to our addictive behavior that hopefully result in sobriety.
Even in sobriety, people relapse. It's the nature of addiction.
You had a choice to drink, and you continued despite negative consequences. They may not have been as dire as others, but consider yourself lucky.
I understand that you can't help what you feel. But if it were me I'd look at my judgements very critically, it has helped in my own sobriety. Learning empathy and understanding for others allows the practice of empathy with myself, and move past my own pain, trauma, and self-loathing.
I predict you will change your outlook, even if just a bit, when you get through Step 4, if you thoroughly work it.
If you had the ability to expose yourself and look at your resentments, face-to-face meetings would be hugely helpful. It's much easier to distance yourself from people's pain and remorse through the veil of an online encounter.
I'm a Buddhist, and one of the central tenets of a Buddhist practice is compassion for all sentient beings. This is not compassion for all enlightened morally "perfect" sentient beings, it is ALL sentient beings, including those who have done the most horrible things.
It's a way I can go to sleep at night.
Many of us can't say the same.
It's a major reason why I got sober, before I hurt myself or someone else. DUI or a bad accident were a matter of time.
The urge to drink is not logical or rational. The urge to drink more is even less so, and actions in a state of extremely drunk, especially a blackout, someone has little to no control what happens. Nearly all head-on wrong way freeway collisions involve a driver in a blackout.
I had a problem, which included very dangerous behavior. As soon as I was able to recognize that I was an addict/alcoholic, I fixed it.
Do I go against your "moral grain?" Have you done NOTHING while impaired that others, particularly normies, would find morally incomprehensible?
This is not a productive attitude for people who are trying to get well. The past, no matter how bad our actions were, is not fixable. There are usually consequences to our addictive behavior that hopefully result in sobriety.
Even in sobriety, people relapse. It's the nature of addiction.
You had a choice to drink, and you continued despite negative consequences. They may not have been as dire as others, but consider yourself lucky.
I understand that you can't help what you feel. But if it were me I'd look at my judgements very critically, it has helped in my own sobriety. Learning empathy and understanding for others allows the practice of empathy with myself, and move past my own pain, trauma, and self-loathing.
I predict you will change your outlook, even if just a bit, when you get through Step 4, if you thoroughly work it.
If you had the ability to expose yourself and look at your resentments, face-to-face meetings would be hugely helpful. It's much easier to distance yourself from people's pain and remorse through the veil of an online encounter.
I'm a Buddhist, and one of the central tenets of a Buddhist practice is compassion for all sentient beings. This is not compassion for all enlightened morally "perfect" sentient beings, it is ALL sentient beings, including those who have done the most horrible things.
It's a way I can go to sleep at night.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
How do you set aside what you believe in and listen to someone and feel empathy, even though you know how debilitating alcohol is, but you are completely conflicted because yes, it is the disease talking, but everyone makes a choice to do things.
How do you lose the judgement, enough to be a good member.
i get off the pedastal- look across at people and not down on them.
just like they do for me becuase im no better then them.
also work the steps a great way to learn why ya feel better then others.
i would never have know the successful business owner once lived under a bridge in grand rapids if i was on a pedastal.
i would never have know old joe, who ive mentioned here, once lived on the streets of the cass corridor before getting sober, getting double masters degrees and a PHd.
i wouldnt have know another member was once a prostitute either.
or another member, who would show up in very expensive suits because he is a successful attorney, spent 12 years in prison.
and didnt give a crap because they werent those people any more and were there to help me.
How do you lose the judgement, enough to be a good member.
i get off the pedastal- look across at people and not down on them.
just like they do for me becuase im no better then them.
also work the steps a great way to learn why ya feel better then others.
i would never have know the successful business owner once lived under a bridge in grand rapids if i was on a pedastal.
i would never have know old joe, who ive mentioned here, once lived on the streets of the cass corridor before getting sober, getting double masters degrees and a PHd.
i wouldnt have know another member was once a prostitute either.
or another member, who would show up in very expensive suits because he is a successful attorney, spent 12 years in prison.
and didnt give a crap because they werent those people any more and were there to help me.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,493
My goal is always to not judge anyone. I don't always succeed, but that's my goal.
I made mistakes while drinking and said and did things I regret. For that reason, judging others is something I make every effort to avoid.
I also try to focus on my own recovery and to allow others to focus on their recovery.
I made mistakes while drinking and said and did things I regret. For that reason, judging others is something I make every effort to avoid.
I also try to focus on my own recovery and to allow others to focus on their recovery.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,068
MLH - as one of the more critical respondents to your original post I would like to say that I'm glad you posted your thoughts even though I don't agree with everything you said. If we only have thoughts that everyone agrees with posted here something is wrong.
I also would like to share a story about someone I met at an AA meeting since it touches on the subject of people who have done bad things in their past.
Several years ago there was a horrible drunk driving accident near my home involving a car full of teenagers. The driver was drunk and he went off the road and hit a tree. He walked away uninjured. The three passengers were not so lucky. Two died and the third one suffered severe permanent injuries. The driver went to jail for perhaps three years. When he got out he started attending AA meetings in our area. It was a bit uncomfortable at first. But I got more comfortable as time went on. Here is what i told him.
I'm glad you are in recovery and I hope you make the best life you can going forward. That said, if a parent of one of the kids you killed in that accident hunted you down and killed you I would not be willing to convict him if I were on the jury.
Not sure how he took it but that's what I told him. I guess you could call it some form of tough love.
I also would like to share a story about someone I met at an AA meeting since it touches on the subject of people who have done bad things in their past.
Several years ago there was a horrible drunk driving accident near my home involving a car full of teenagers. The driver was drunk and he went off the road and hit a tree. He walked away uninjured. The three passengers were not so lucky. Two died and the third one suffered severe permanent injuries. The driver went to jail for perhaps three years. When he got out he started attending AA meetings in our area. It was a bit uncomfortable at first. But I got more comfortable as time went on. Here is what i told him.
I'm glad you are in recovery and I hope you make the best life you can going forward. That said, if a parent of one of the kids you killed in that accident hunted you down and killed you I would not be willing to convict him if I were on the jury.
Not sure how he took it but that's what I told him. I guess you could call it some form of tough love.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
I try not to judge people although I remember struggling with this myself.
I've been blessed with a good memory.
I did enough silly, dangerous disgusting and immoral thing to hopefully keep me grounded when I read and set out to reply to other peoples posts
D
I've been blessed with a good memory.
I did enough silly, dangerous disgusting and immoral thing to hopefully keep me grounded when I read and set out to reply to other peoples posts
D
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by AAPJ 
I'm glad you are in recovery and I hope you make the best life you can going forward. That said, if a parent of one of the kids you killed in that accident hunted you down and killed you I would not be willing to convict him if I were on the jury.
Nothing is going to bring those kids back. No matter what punishment the guy gets.
Vigilanty justice is still murder.
As Gandhi said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
The kid did his time and is continuing sobriety. The parents have to live the rest of their lives with the death of their child. He does too.
The deaths were unintentional, a deeply unfortunate circumstance of a young inexperienced driver and alcohol.
I bet many people in this forum have been in this circumstance, and fortunately escaped maiming or killing someone.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 2,547
I struggled with this myself. The first time I tried to quit drinking, I was in an outpatient program where we met as a group twice per week. I was one of the few who was not court-ordered to be there, which (this is embarrassing) made me feel quite smug. I remember the counselor telling me that she was worried about me relapsing once the program ended, and I thought, "you're worried about ME? The rest of these people have DUIs, arrests, child custody issues, etc!" I had a successful career, intact family, wealth, no arrests, etc. Although I wasn't ready to hear it at the time, the message was that none of those things had happened YET (you're eligible too) and I was overestimating my own power to control my drinking without the external support I needed. And although I still haven't experienced those consequences, I now see that the progression of addiction is so real. The people who cautioned me to find the commonality of our shared disease, rather than looking for ways to not relate and separate myself from "them," were so right. Not that you're doing this, but something about your post seems so familiar to me.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Washington State
Posts: 591
Everyone has reasons for doing the things they do. Sometimes those reasons are extremely irrational from a sober/non-sick perspective, but they felt like they made sense to the person at the time on some level. My take is when someone behaves in an irrational/dangerous way then its something which makes more sense to think of as mental illness than anything. This is how I view addictive behavior a lot of the time, especially since I also view using/drinking as a symptom of an underlying problem or problems, not a self contained condition by itself. This means that 2 different people who call themselves alcoholics can be that way for completely different reasons and not understand why the other person does certain things when in the throes of their addiction/sickness. If a bi-polar person drove 100mph down the freeway sometimes, but then felt horrible about the things they did when manic at other times, how would you view that behavior? To me its not much different than when addicts engage in this type of behavior when their(our) brains are all out of whack on chemicals combined with whatever else is going on underneath.
That's my take on it anyway.
That's my take on it anyway.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 928
One of the hallmark symptoms of an alcoholic is engaging in behavior you never would if you were sober. If you never did anything you regret or immoral due to alcohol and feel a need to judge others who have, you’re probably not a real alcoholic and should respect people in meetings who truly are.
AA is not the place for judgement, IMO. Believe me, alcoholics get plenty of that pretty much everywhere else.
AA is not the place for judgement, IMO. Believe me, alcoholics get plenty of that pretty much everywhere else.
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