Checking in...Progress?
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 109
Checking in...Progress?
Hello everyone,
I was re-reading my previous threads, and took to heart many of the things said, and repeated in every possible way.
I also have been trying hard to attend Al Anon meetings, and am starting to look for a sponsor. Meanwhile, starting with a new counselor, not because I didn't like the other, it was just part of a program through school, and we had a limited number of sessions.
Some clarity has come over the past few days since she left my home for rehab. For myself, this is a big benefit, because I have less panic attacks, less obsessing, and realizing the truth of who she is currently.
Throughout my time on here, I kept indicating that she was not serious about her recovery, and the proof was in the pudding that even when she stayed with me, she drank again. Now in a controlled environment of rehab, she may be sober, but the mindset has not changed. But mine has, and particularly due to her actions.
I see now that she is truly not actively trying to be serious, at least not entirely. It comes to me in small snippets, and I realize more and more the depth at which she is taking this. I will not let her take me down with her.
I know the signs of a codependent, and one of them is to continuously give updates on the alcoholic, and not yourself and your recovery, but for the sake of discussion, I will just state what I have seen.
Since in rehab, she has been talking with the other guy still. She does not see any problem with their relationship, and feels it is a good thing. This in light of him telling me he will let her drink again, and her telling me that she plans to, just not in the immediate future. She doesn't mind being a trophy wife "if it is a means to an end" and he is happy to supply that if that is what she wants. He was still actively using GHB, as in our last discussion over the phone, he degraded throughout the call. He also doesn't realize that he is risking his own life by being with another active addict. Sadly, it seems they both just see this as they don't have a real problem, and if they just keep each other in check, then nothing will get out of hand. Well, that didn't work the first time, and it doesn't seem they are learning from their own history. My two counselors believe she is perpetuating a delusion, and may have some borderline personality disorder. She hasn't apologized to a single person, and sees what she is doing as fine. She had a friend visit yesterday, and she called me frantically before going saying that my Aex wants her to sneak cigarettes in for her. This indicates she is still playing be her own rules, and not the rules of the facility, which is intended to help her. This may seem minute, but I saw this in previous detoxes, and rehab. It is always her slightly bending the rules, and seeing if others will go along with it. I have called her out numerous times on this, and she didn't appreciate it, or tried to rationalize it.
This is the final thing I will say about her...
Her girlfriend confronted her about the other guy not being such a good idea. Aex said, where did you hear that, she said from a few people including Joel. Immediately she said "you can't believe him, he is no longer on my team, and he has his own agenda." Aex even said that we didn't have intimate relations when she was with me the previous week. She then went on to call the guy right in front of the friend, and tried to show they are fine and everything is ok. Well, ironically, when the girlfriend walked in they were arguing on the phone. The girlfriend called me after to say "well she seems fine, and I don't think we are getting the whole story."
This is where my clarity came in. I realized I am not lying about a single thing. Rather, she is lying about almost everything, and so is the other guy. They lie to each other, they lie to us, and we are left wondering what is true. Just as the girlfriend said everything is fine, I realized... "well you fell for it." Clearly nothing is fine, her life is in shambles, she is in debt up to her ears, and is trying to run off with another addict, not only that but she took a sledge hammer to our relationship, and feels nothing about it, even though I would have likely provided a loving relationship for the rest of our lives. Now, to further the false reality situation, it appears as though she is throwing me under the bus, calling me the liar. I laughed when I heard this, but the only disappointment still comes from not knowing how I became her enemy. I guess it may come from the fact that I am the only one fact checking her on everything. The more I find, the more I tell others, or they tell me, the more we see how there is nothing congruent. The more she lies, and keeps us all wondering what is true or not, the more control she keeps in the situation and can move the situation in a way that suits her. Well I am not playing this game anymore. I am stepping away. As hard as it is, I have to let her make her own choices. Even with everyone saying something doesn't feel or seem right about her going with this guy or that she isn't very serious about rehab...well then let her find out the hard way. We don't control her, we don't own her. She says she's an adult, and so does he, but they act like teenagers who don't want to hear something that conflicts with their thoughts or life choices...just like teenagers and parents. In fact, the more you tell them no, the more they do! It is beyond childish. I have so much to do in my life right now that I cannot let her bring me down further.
I held myself back from responding to texts of hers last night, and am at a cross roads regarding calling her and discussing a few things...or letting her revel in her ignorance, self un-accountability, and terrible life choices. Also, she does not deserve me like this. Of course it appears as though I have my own agenda, but I have overtly told her, and others that I cannot race back to being with her. That if she remains sober for an extended duration, gets her head on straight, then the door between us isn’t closed. How is this not “on her team?” I express love, and forgiveness, and she turns it on me as the enemy. Because I point out the lies between the two of them, her lies to each of us? Isn’t this a red flag?
I am back to working out, walking the dog, hanging with friends and family, and trying to work the steps in al anon. I even met a new guy in al anon that has a similar situation as mine, and we find it useful to discuss our issues with one another.
I'm not fully there yet everyone, but I hope you see some progress in me. If not, please let me know where!
I was re-reading my previous threads, and took to heart many of the things said, and repeated in every possible way.
I also have been trying hard to attend Al Anon meetings, and am starting to look for a sponsor. Meanwhile, starting with a new counselor, not because I didn't like the other, it was just part of a program through school, and we had a limited number of sessions.
Some clarity has come over the past few days since she left my home for rehab. For myself, this is a big benefit, because I have less panic attacks, less obsessing, and realizing the truth of who she is currently.
Throughout my time on here, I kept indicating that she was not serious about her recovery, and the proof was in the pudding that even when she stayed with me, she drank again. Now in a controlled environment of rehab, she may be sober, but the mindset has not changed. But mine has, and particularly due to her actions.
I see now that she is truly not actively trying to be serious, at least not entirely. It comes to me in small snippets, and I realize more and more the depth at which she is taking this. I will not let her take me down with her.
I know the signs of a codependent, and one of them is to continuously give updates on the alcoholic, and not yourself and your recovery, but for the sake of discussion, I will just state what I have seen.
Since in rehab, she has been talking with the other guy still. She does not see any problem with their relationship, and feels it is a good thing. This in light of him telling me he will let her drink again, and her telling me that she plans to, just not in the immediate future. She doesn't mind being a trophy wife "if it is a means to an end" and he is happy to supply that if that is what she wants. He was still actively using GHB, as in our last discussion over the phone, he degraded throughout the call. He also doesn't realize that he is risking his own life by being with another active addict. Sadly, it seems they both just see this as they don't have a real problem, and if they just keep each other in check, then nothing will get out of hand. Well, that didn't work the first time, and it doesn't seem they are learning from their own history. My two counselors believe she is perpetuating a delusion, and may have some borderline personality disorder. She hasn't apologized to a single person, and sees what she is doing as fine. She had a friend visit yesterday, and she called me frantically before going saying that my Aex wants her to sneak cigarettes in for her. This indicates she is still playing be her own rules, and not the rules of the facility, which is intended to help her. This may seem minute, but I saw this in previous detoxes, and rehab. It is always her slightly bending the rules, and seeing if others will go along with it. I have called her out numerous times on this, and she didn't appreciate it, or tried to rationalize it.
This is the final thing I will say about her...
Her girlfriend confronted her about the other guy not being such a good idea. Aex said, where did you hear that, she said from a few people including Joel. Immediately she said "you can't believe him, he is no longer on my team, and he has his own agenda." Aex even said that we didn't have intimate relations when she was with me the previous week. She then went on to call the guy right in front of the friend, and tried to show they are fine and everything is ok. Well, ironically, when the girlfriend walked in they were arguing on the phone. The girlfriend called me after to say "well she seems fine, and I don't think we are getting the whole story."
This is where my clarity came in. I realized I am not lying about a single thing. Rather, she is lying about almost everything, and so is the other guy. They lie to each other, they lie to us, and we are left wondering what is true. Just as the girlfriend said everything is fine, I realized... "well you fell for it." Clearly nothing is fine, her life is in shambles, she is in debt up to her ears, and is trying to run off with another addict, not only that but she took a sledge hammer to our relationship, and feels nothing about it, even though I would have likely provided a loving relationship for the rest of our lives. Now, to further the false reality situation, it appears as though she is throwing me under the bus, calling me the liar. I laughed when I heard this, but the only disappointment still comes from not knowing how I became her enemy. I guess it may come from the fact that I am the only one fact checking her on everything. The more I find, the more I tell others, or they tell me, the more we see how there is nothing congruent. The more she lies, and keeps us all wondering what is true or not, the more control she keeps in the situation and can move the situation in a way that suits her. Well I am not playing this game anymore. I am stepping away. As hard as it is, I have to let her make her own choices. Even with everyone saying something doesn't feel or seem right about her going with this guy or that she isn't very serious about rehab...well then let her find out the hard way. We don't control her, we don't own her. She says she's an adult, and so does he, but they act like teenagers who don't want to hear something that conflicts with their thoughts or life choices...just like teenagers and parents. In fact, the more you tell them no, the more they do! It is beyond childish. I have so much to do in my life right now that I cannot let her bring me down further.
I held myself back from responding to texts of hers last night, and am at a cross roads regarding calling her and discussing a few things...or letting her revel in her ignorance, self un-accountability, and terrible life choices. Also, she does not deserve me like this. Of course it appears as though I have my own agenda, but I have overtly told her, and others that I cannot race back to being with her. That if she remains sober for an extended duration, gets her head on straight, then the door between us isn’t closed. How is this not “on her team?” I express love, and forgiveness, and she turns it on me as the enemy. Because I point out the lies between the two of them, her lies to each of us? Isn’t this a red flag?
I am back to working out, walking the dog, hanging with friends and family, and trying to work the steps in al anon. I even met a new guy in al anon that has a similar situation as mine, and we find it useful to discuss our issues with one another.
I'm not fully there yet everyone, but I hope you see some progress in me. If not, please let me know where!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
TIme and distance can work wonders on your perspective.
I think your instinct not to reply is a good one. Give yourself a break from contact for awhile, from getting updates about her, and see how much more clarity you can achieve.
I think your instinct not to reply is a good one. Give yourself a break from contact for awhile, from getting updates about her, and see how much more clarity you can achieve.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel 
How is this not “on her team?” I express love, and forgiveness, and she turns it on me as the enemy. Because I point out the lies between the two of them, her lies to each of us? Isn’t this a red flag?
You are getting there Joel, as others mentioned, you are getting clarity. I'm sorry this is so painful for you, I hope you are starting to feel a bit better.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
It sounds like time and distance are giving you perspective. That's progress right there.
Addicts do this "on my team/not on my team", with me/against me, supportive/betrayal thing a lot. I don't think you have to justify or prove that you're part of "her team". You can just walk away from the whole soccer field.
Addicts do this "on my team/not on my team", with me/against me, supportive/betrayal thing a lot. I don't think you have to justify or prove that you're part of "her team". You can just walk away from the whole soccer field.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
I realized I am not lying about a single thing. Rather, she is lying about almost everything
You are so right to recognize that her wanting to bend the rules indicates she is not serious about recovery. Leave her to it. She will do what she will do and have to deal with the consequences.
Also good to know you're in AlAnon and met someone there to whom you can relate.
You show a lot of progress! I'm sorry it's so painful. It'll get easier my friend.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Good Morning Joel;
I'm so glad to see you are going to Alanon--it also sounds like you are starting
to process things a bit and that looks like progress to me.
One saying we have here is that "more will be revealed" and I think that
certainly is / will be the case here.
I saw your thoughtful post on another thread this morning and am
very happy to see you back, working on your recovery and helping others.
I found reaching out like that really helped me too
How about posting a picture of your puppy if you care to? Sounds awfully cute
I'm so glad to see you are going to Alanon--it also sounds like you are starting
to process things a bit and that looks like progress to me.
One saying we have here is that "more will be revealed" and I think that
certainly is / will be the case here.
I saw your thoughtful post on another thread this morning and am
very happy to see you back, working on your recovery and helping others.
I found reaching out like that really helped me too
How about posting a picture of your puppy if you care to? Sounds awfully cute
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I see progress; you are beginning to see things more clearly. This is what happens when we step away and out of the picture, it is a different view when looking in then it was being in it.
That’s just it Joel, it’s not who she is “currently” it’s who she actually IS.
and realizing the truth of who she is currently.
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 43
I have been reading all your posts and felt sooo bad for you, I was once in your position where I analyzed every single detail and it was making me crazy. I would actually stand in front of the mirror and say to myself “you’re going to be ok”
The alcoholic in my life would say things like “you don’t have my back” and similar things. I later realized how manipulative it was, it makes us try even HARDER to be OK with poor treatment.
I hung on way too long and now see that I was only torturing myself.
All that compassion I had for her only allowed her to treat me even worse because she knew I wouldn’t walk away.
I finally did, it was so very hard, I was losing my personality and my happiness my core.
Keep reading around here there is so much wisdom. I can already see that you are stepping back and looking at the situation as a whole. It’s the beginning of your healing.
The alcoholic in my life would say things like “you don’t have my back” and similar things. I later realized how manipulative it was, it makes us try even HARDER to be OK with poor treatment.
I hung on way too long and now see that I was only torturing myself.
All that compassion I had for her only allowed her to treat me even worse because she knew I wouldn’t walk away.
I finally did, it was so very hard, I was losing my personality and my happiness my core.
Keep reading around here there is so much wisdom. I can already see that you are stepping back and looking at the situation as a whole. It’s the beginning of your healing.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
The thing about clarity is that you cannot "unsee" it. Once it's planted, it will stay in your head and grow. Good for you.
I still think you have way too much communication w/her "people." This time her friend called you b/c she wanted to bend the rules. Really, no phone call was required to you about that. Friend needs to learn that NO is a complete sentence. Keep forming those boundaries. You are learning! Don't expect to be able to rationalize anything she says, she is not a rational person. She's a spoiled adult, likely with a personality disorder. Be glad your mind does not work in that same way!
Big hugs!
I still think you have way too much communication w/her "people." This time her friend called you b/c she wanted to bend the rules. Really, no phone call was required to you about that. Friend needs to learn that NO is a complete sentence. Keep forming those boundaries. You are learning! Don't expect to be able to rationalize anything she says, she is not a rational person. She's a spoiled adult, likely with a personality disorder. Be glad your mind does not work in that same way!
Big hugs!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central O-H-I-O
Posts: 1,689
Originally Posted by hopeful4
i still think you have way too much communication w/her "people." this time her friend called you b/c she wanted to bend the rules. Really, no phone call was required to you about that. Friend needs to learn that no is a complete sentence. Don't expect to be able to rationalize anything she says, she is not a rational person. She's a spoiled adult, likely with a personality disorder. Be glad your mind does not work in that same way!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I know the signs of a codependent, and one of them is to continuously give updates on the alcoholic, and not yourself and your recovery, but for the sake of discussion, I will just state what I have seen.
This is where my clarity came in. I realized I am not lying about a single thing. Rather, she is lying about almost everything, and so is the other guy. They lie to each other, they lie to us, and we are left wondering what is true.
For instance, in one paragraph you go from:
Well I am not playing this game anymore. I am stepping away. As hard as it is, I have to let her make her own choices.
....and am at a cross roads regarding calling her and discussing a few things...or letting her revel in her ignorance, self un-accountability, and terrible life choices.
Keep moving forward Joel, baby steps..... but remember, engaging with all those other "support" people is actually taking steps backward.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
Excellent observations FireSprite
Originally Posted by FireSprite
So, you know this is a Codie Update but you're doing it anyway? Ok...!
Yes, this is a great moment of clarity Joel - this IS addiction, this IS normal to an addict. It is crazy-making when we know this & still spend time trying to "make sense of it all". That's a choice WE make to stay enmeshed.
For instance, in one paragraph you go from:
To:
These thoughts are in direct conflict with one another - while yes, it's normal to oscillate back & forth as we figure this stuff out, we also have to be able to recognize it in ourselves..... which is why I'm pointing it out for you here.
Keep moving forward Joel, baby steps..... but remember, engaging with all those other "support" people is actually taking steps backward.
Yes, this is a great moment of clarity Joel - this IS addiction, this IS normal to an addict. It is crazy-making when we know this & still spend time trying to "make sense of it all". That's a choice WE make to stay enmeshed.
For instance, in one paragraph you go from:
To:
These thoughts are in direct conflict with one another - while yes, it's normal to oscillate back & forth as we figure this stuff out, we also have to be able to recognize it in ourselves..... which is why I'm pointing it out for you here.
Keep moving forward Joel, baby steps..... but remember, engaging with all those other "support" people is actually taking steps backward.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Hardcore NC including her friends and family's updates about her is your way out,buddy. You ghost them all. You DO NOT have to deal with her messes anymore,or even hear about them. It keeps you raw and attached in the madness of it all. She's with this guy and wants to be. That's a; "Well...bye." for me every time I've been broken up with/cheated on,ect.. She was never your project and you did not sign up for the mess(es) she's created/creating. It's no longer your business is the way I see it and it appears you're starting to see that too. That's good. Hang in there!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 109
Hello again everyone,
Thank you for the kind words of encouragement, and pointing out my Codie thoughts. I have to try to rid myself of that.
One step I took yesterday was that she texted and called me. I didn't respond to either. I didn't even listen to the voicemail. I am guessing she just wants something from me...but not me.
I went to Al Anon yesterday. I was a topic day. Topic was...willingness.
I spoke about my current willingness to step away from the situation, and back off. Someone reminded me that I am not detaching out of anger, I am stepping away with love. I do find myself getting more angry with some of this, as I did in the past few months. However, I know anger will get me no where. I realize I have to accept who she currently is, and I really took it to heart when a friend asked me... "if you met her today, and found out what you know now, what would you think of her?" My brother added to this in a phone call last night saying...it is almost identical to taking in a homeless addicted person.
While I hate to think of her this way, it is most literally true. What's worse is that it is all by her choice and doing. I have no control over this.
I still have residual feelings, of course, which I don't think will ever leave. I do love this woman, but it was when she wasn't in this current state. I haven't entirely shut the door in her face, she chooses currently to walk away. It would be up to her going forward to make any effort to form a new relationship with me.
Now, the next point I will make is that I still do plenty of reading on the subject, and as mentioned in my previous threads, it seems there is also some underlying issue. Previously, all involved did not think to take her to a treatment center focused on dual diagnosis. I am not aware of if either of the rehab facilities she has/is attending works towards dual diagnosis. But after reading, even people suffering from depression and anxiety deserve dual diagnosis treatment. I know she is on antianxiety meds, but she was on those before she even went to the first rehab bout. I can't imagine them not trying to check for other mental issues, but she is sneaky, and great at hiding the reality. Also, since she is in such a rush to get out and go onto Miami (wooohooo party!), I wouldn't doubt she speaks her way around any severe issues...I.E. I up and left my fiance and my family and friends to go with another severely addicted person.
The fact she even did this just begs the question on how she could change from a person that wanted self-reliance, empowerment, and her own success in a career, to a person who wants to rely on others, particularly a person with money. I don't have the answer, but this isn't the sweet intelligent girl I knew.
So, I am still standing back. I am not going to respond to her unless she has something to tell me other than "Miami this, new guy that, drinking this, I want control that, I'm leaving back to michigan in a month this, you are not on my team that."
Although I was a codie, I know I would be a great husband, father and loyal and supportive to the end. I displayed all these traits already, even when life was hard during my PhD! Many, many people tell me that there are lots of women who would die to be with me (and I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I forget the other fish in the sea idea). In fact, I am trying to sort out my thoughts about where I want to be by age 40, and what that life looks like, and what the linear path too it is, and what is required to get there (hard work, dedication, etc).
The reason I bring up the mental health issue, and my projected future is because in the current state, she is not in that picture. If she were to actively seek treatment, realize the pain she caused, and that our relationship was beautiful and wanted to see me in a different light in the future, I would maybe MAYBE be able to see her somewhere in that future. But I wont hold my breath. Shes just cruising.
From what I have told you all about the current situation in rehab, and her being sneaky, and trying to bend rules...does this sound like she is not taking it seriously? Does it sound to all of you like she wont only relapse, that she will just continue in a short period of time? If she stays sober for the longest I have seen in the past year, it was 3 weeks...do you think she will just do this again? I still have just a bad feeling about her and this guy...like something is desperately wrong. The blind leading the blind. I am guessing this will eventually crumble too, agreed?
Just some thoughts and questions...Aside from a few sad moments today, I am much more focused at work. That is a big plus!
Thank you for the kind words of encouragement, and pointing out my Codie thoughts. I have to try to rid myself of that.
One step I took yesterday was that she texted and called me. I didn't respond to either. I didn't even listen to the voicemail. I am guessing she just wants something from me...but not me.
I went to Al Anon yesterday. I was a topic day. Topic was...willingness.
I spoke about my current willingness to step away from the situation, and back off. Someone reminded me that I am not detaching out of anger, I am stepping away with love. I do find myself getting more angry with some of this, as I did in the past few months. However, I know anger will get me no where. I realize I have to accept who she currently is, and I really took it to heart when a friend asked me... "if you met her today, and found out what you know now, what would you think of her?" My brother added to this in a phone call last night saying...it is almost identical to taking in a homeless addicted person.
While I hate to think of her this way, it is most literally true. What's worse is that it is all by her choice and doing. I have no control over this.
I still have residual feelings, of course, which I don't think will ever leave. I do love this woman, but it was when she wasn't in this current state. I haven't entirely shut the door in her face, she chooses currently to walk away. It would be up to her going forward to make any effort to form a new relationship with me.
Now, the next point I will make is that I still do plenty of reading on the subject, and as mentioned in my previous threads, it seems there is also some underlying issue. Previously, all involved did not think to take her to a treatment center focused on dual diagnosis. I am not aware of if either of the rehab facilities she has/is attending works towards dual diagnosis. But after reading, even people suffering from depression and anxiety deserve dual diagnosis treatment. I know she is on antianxiety meds, but she was on those before she even went to the first rehab bout. I can't imagine them not trying to check for other mental issues, but she is sneaky, and great at hiding the reality. Also, since she is in such a rush to get out and go onto Miami (wooohooo party!), I wouldn't doubt she speaks her way around any severe issues...I.E. I up and left my fiance and my family and friends to go with another severely addicted person.
The fact she even did this just begs the question on how she could change from a person that wanted self-reliance, empowerment, and her own success in a career, to a person who wants to rely on others, particularly a person with money. I don't have the answer, but this isn't the sweet intelligent girl I knew.
So, I am still standing back. I am not going to respond to her unless she has something to tell me other than "Miami this, new guy that, drinking this, I want control that, I'm leaving back to michigan in a month this, you are not on my team that."
Although I was a codie, I know I would be a great husband, father and loyal and supportive to the end. I displayed all these traits already, even when life was hard during my PhD! Many, many people tell me that there are lots of women who would die to be with me (and I'm not tooting my own horn here, but I forget the other fish in the sea idea). In fact, I am trying to sort out my thoughts about where I want to be by age 40, and what that life looks like, and what the linear path too it is, and what is required to get there (hard work, dedication, etc).
The reason I bring up the mental health issue, and my projected future is because in the current state, she is not in that picture. If she were to actively seek treatment, realize the pain she caused, and that our relationship was beautiful and wanted to see me in a different light in the future, I would maybe MAYBE be able to see her somewhere in that future. But I wont hold my breath. Shes just cruising.
From what I have told you all about the current situation in rehab, and her being sneaky, and trying to bend rules...does this sound like she is not taking it seriously? Does it sound to all of you like she wont only relapse, that she will just continue in a short period of time? If she stays sober for the longest I have seen in the past year, it was 3 weeks...do you think she will just do this again? I still have just a bad feeling about her and this guy...like something is desperately wrong. The blind leading the blind. I am guessing this will eventually crumble too, agreed?
Just some thoughts and questions...Aside from a few sad moments today, I am much more focused at work. That is a big plus!
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