Accepting the fate of the alcoholic
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Accepting the fate of the alcoholic
My office is located downtown in a big city and often times I pass several homeless people. Since I have only been at my job a couple of months the people I saw were mostly relaxed and asking for spare change, but seem to at least be enjoying the sunshine on their faces. The little things. Now as we are entering what feels to be an early and unforgiving winter, these same people are balled up with just a flimsy coat or cover to keep warm. There's rarely any sun, and people are walking just to get inside somewhere.
This morning I decided to stop for coffee instead of getting it at the office. Kind of my Friday treat. Outside of the coffee place was a man laying down on the sidewalk under a little niche he had made. He was balled up trying to keep warm. Around him were empty wrappers and cups and one dirty bag with what appeared to be his belongings. I decided to get him a breakfast with a cup of coffee as the least I could do (I didn't have cash on me). When I went to put it next to him I tapped him to wake so he could eat. He didn't move. Was either in a deep sleep or under the influence. I just left it there and went on my way.
For some reason I can't shake it. Or perhaps maybe a better way of phrasing it is that I can't seem to accept it. Maybe because viewing the homeless now feels differently as I realize this is the fate of the alcoholic in my life. Living in a big city, homelessness is rampant, but maybe I could accept it before. It always bothered me and I did my best to give money or food that I could spare. But this time it hits differently. Just like the people on the street, I'm sure at one point they may have been handsome, charming and maybe even successful. Maybe they had a lot of friends. But somewhere along the road they lost their way. I think about them too being babies at one point. With parents and maybe siblings. That one time in their life people wanted to hold them ad kiss them and love them and keep them warm (hopefully).
I have trouble accepting it. Just like the alcoholic. It seems unfair. I know they can get help at any time, but just as a poster here wrote about before, what if we are all truly doing our best? What if that's the best an alcoholic can do at this time and thus, will be forced to suffer the fate that's laid out there? What if he can get help and he knows that, but somehow, he is just unable to at this time? I think about it in relation to my qualifier. He and I are on the outs and he is on another bender. This time he will spend all he has, including his rent money he is behind on from losing his last job. He will have it so he can have a motel to do his damage in. He is no different then the man on the sidewalk this morning. At this pace, that is most certainly his fate.
What are ways that you have coped with acceptance that seems unacceptable to you? I was always unusually sensitive as a child so things have always hit me a little harder that were just "part of life". I have done fine because you really have no choice if you want to survive. But my brain can sometimes do a number on me with guilt and all that good stuff. Maybe like a survivor's guilt.
This morning I decided to stop for coffee instead of getting it at the office. Kind of my Friday treat. Outside of the coffee place was a man laying down on the sidewalk under a little niche he had made. He was balled up trying to keep warm. Around him were empty wrappers and cups and one dirty bag with what appeared to be his belongings. I decided to get him a breakfast with a cup of coffee as the least I could do (I didn't have cash on me). When I went to put it next to him I tapped him to wake so he could eat. He didn't move. Was either in a deep sleep or under the influence. I just left it there and went on my way.
For some reason I can't shake it. Or perhaps maybe a better way of phrasing it is that I can't seem to accept it. Maybe because viewing the homeless now feels differently as I realize this is the fate of the alcoholic in my life. Living in a big city, homelessness is rampant, but maybe I could accept it before. It always bothered me and I did my best to give money or food that I could spare. But this time it hits differently. Just like the people on the street, I'm sure at one point they may have been handsome, charming and maybe even successful. Maybe they had a lot of friends. But somewhere along the road they lost their way. I think about them too being babies at one point. With parents and maybe siblings. That one time in their life people wanted to hold them ad kiss them and love them and keep them warm (hopefully).
I have trouble accepting it. Just like the alcoholic. It seems unfair. I know they can get help at any time, but just as a poster here wrote about before, what if we are all truly doing our best? What if that's the best an alcoholic can do at this time and thus, will be forced to suffer the fate that's laid out there? What if he can get help and he knows that, but somehow, he is just unable to at this time? I think about it in relation to my qualifier. He and I are on the outs and he is on another bender. This time he will spend all he has, including his rent money he is behind on from losing his last job. He will have it so he can have a motel to do his damage in. He is no different then the man on the sidewalk this morning. At this pace, that is most certainly his fate.
What are ways that you have coped with acceptance that seems unacceptable to you? I was always unusually sensitive as a child so things have always hit me a little harder that were just "part of life". I have done fine because you really have no choice if you want to survive. But my brain can sometimes do a number on me with guilt and all that good stuff. Maybe like a survivor's guilt.
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It is very hard. Where I live if you are homeless it is because you choose to be. There are many many resources. I went a couple of years ago and stayed in the nicest area of a very nice city for a week. I was shocked at the homeless, and very sad. We did the same, gave what we could. Bought some things and handed them out. I was shocked to say the least. And sad.
One morning I was sitting on a bench waiting for someone to bring bagels from the bagel shop. I had a conversation with a homeless man who was trying to guide his very intoxicated friend off the middle of the sidewalk where he was getting ready to lay down (or pass out). I asked the man if he had anywhere to go, any resources. He said, oh yes, but you have to be able to be free of drugs and alcohol to stay there. I asked him if there are resources to help them be free of drugs and alcohol. He said yes. I asked him why they don't get that help, and he told me he likes his friends and this is his choice.
That did open up my eyes a little. People have free will. If the resources are there (and I am not saying they always are, sometimes they are not), and they choose not to get help, there is really nothing else we can do. It's sad. I look at my XAH. He is remarried. He is also still an addict. He looks awful. He, and his wife, are both very unhappy people. It has not changed at all. That is simply his choice. He had every chance and opportunity. He had support who would rally around him, and did.
It's like the theory that you can lead them to the water but you cannot make them drink. There comes a time that it's free will, and some people simply make bad choices, over and over. It's very sad, but it's out of our control.
This is just my two cents worth. I know every situation is different, and in no way am I saying that homelessness is always a choice. I am aware there are not always resources to help. I wish I knew the answers.
One morning I was sitting on a bench waiting for someone to bring bagels from the bagel shop. I had a conversation with a homeless man who was trying to guide his very intoxicated friend off the middle of the sidewalk where he was getting ready to lay down (or pass out). I asked the man if he had anywhere to go, any resources. He said, oh yes, but you have to be able to be free of drugs and alcohol to stay there. I asked him if there are resources to help them be free of drugs and alcohol. He said yes. I asked him why they don't get that help, and he told me he likes his friends and this is his choice.
That did open up my eyes a little. People have free will. If the resources are there (and I am not saying they always are, sometimes they are not), and they choose not to get help, there is really nothing else we can do. It's sad. I look at my XAH. He is remarried. He is also still an addict. He looks awful. He, and his wife, are both very unhappy people. It has not changed at all. That is simply his choice. He had every chance and opportunity. He had support who would rally around him, and did.
It's like the theory that you can lead them to the water but you cannot make them drink. There comes a time that it's free will, and some people simply make bad choices, over and over. It's very sad, but it's out of our control.
This is just my two cents worth. I know every situation is different, and in no way am I saying that homelessness is always a choice. I am aware there are not always resources to help. I wish I knew the answers.
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I know sparkle...."it is what it is". I just have to sit with that and accept it. I think that is why my therapist has always encouraged me into service work. It's a way to funnel the helpless energy into actually, well helping on the things you can control.
I think it's human nature to try and control....for us to survive sure, but it's human nature to make sure others survive. Or maybe it's actually the opposite - survival of the fittest. I may have missed that part.
I think it's human nature to try and control....for us to survive sure, but it's human nature to make sure others survive. Or maybe it's actually the opposite - survival of the fittest. I may have missed that part.
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I don't think we can know ANYONE's fate, thinking we know what is going to happen with someone else's life, or even our own is pretty presumptuous. I could be the healthiest person in the world, and be hit by a bus tomorrow.
There are a few things that have helped me with acceptance.
Focusing on me - myself, my needs, my problems, my future and making a good life for me today has helped me :
1 - accept myself for a change rather than beating myself up for everything, and
2 - accepting that other people are smart, resilient human beings doing the best they can for their lives too.
I don't know that it is human nature to try and control others....I think some of us do it because way deep down, we feel that our lives are out of control and that's just too much to face and change (it's just easier to focus on others and their 'stuff.') Of course if we're here - that notion might be closer to the surface.
I think we make a mistake in assuming that others should have a better life than they have. We choose our lifestyles because we are getting something out of it. I've worked with homeless people a tiny bit - and the few I've spent a little time with were fairly happy with their lives - which is more than I can say for myself from time to time!
Imagine the load it would take off of you if you did not internalize other peoples choices or what you perceive to be their problems! When I finally was able to let go of other peoples 'stuff' life became immensely less stressful. Then again, it became time to face my own stuff....but at least I could do it with less angst, less of a sense of urgency, and with less criticism and judgement of myself.
There are a few things that have helped me with acceptance.
Focusing on me - myself, my needs, my problems, my future and making a good life for me today has helped me :
1 - accept myself for a change rather than beating myself up for everything, and
2 - accepting that other people are smart, resilient human beings doing the best they can for their lives too.
I don't know that it is human nature to try and control others....I think some of us do it because way deep down, we feel that our lives are out of control and that's just too much to face and change (it's just easier to focus on others and their 'stuff.') Of course if we're here - that notion might be closer to the surface.
I think we make a mistake in assuming that others should have a better life than they have. We choose our lifestyles because we are getting something out of it. I've worked with homeless people a tiny bit - and the few I've spent a little time with were fairly happy with their lives - which is more than I can say for myself from time to time!
Imagine the load it would take off of you if you did not internalize other peoples choices or what you perceive to be their problems! When I finally was able to let go of other peoples 'stuff' life became immensely less stressful. Then again, it became time to face my own stuff....but at least I could do it with less angst, less of a sense of urgency, and with less criticism and judgement of myself.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Wow, Smarie - Awww......hugs to you!
Your post brought me to a few tears. Yes, this possible and sometimes true reality of our loved ones' "fate" - can be so sad and painful!!!!
I could have written a very similar post years ago, as I too, worked in large office building within a homeless area in a very large city. I rode to work in a van pool bus, and we drove through skid row. Every morning I feared seeing my alcoholic father, who at that time was living, and continued to live his last years on skid row. I usually just avoided looking when we passed that area. I walked by homeless beggars, (with eyes averted) many days when going to lunch outside the building with co-workers. Some times I gave a homeless woman my leftovers from my lunch.
At Thanksgiving and Christmas our local TV stations would show homeless/poor people in line in skid row, waiting for turkey dinners, and I would always turn the channel as soon as those stories came on, for fear of seeing my dad. At that point I did not have the Alanon program or counseling, so I think, (know) that I just "stuffed" those images and fears, and didn't talk about them. To anyone. (By the way, my dad died on skid row, killed by another alcoholic, in a fight over a bottle. )
As I said, during the times I just mentioned, I wasn't into a program, so I just "stuffed" my thoughts and feelings. Years later I became very sick with a couple of serious
autoimmune illnesses, and I think not knowing how to cope with my dad's alcoholism and his "fate" (and later, my alcoholic husband), may have contributed to my poor health.
FAST FORWARD many years.
Today my oldest adult son is an addict. He lives in another state, a VERY COLD state and has been homeless on and off for many years. He has CHOSEN NOT to give up his addiction (pot - yes, pot CAN be addictive and destroy lives). He is also Bipolar, yet refuses treatment. My son and I have not spoken for a long time - since I had to tell him I couldn't send him any (more) $$.
The reality is that today he might be homeless again this winter. And my heart is torn - ripped - for just a little bit when I think of him and the possibilities.
But this time around, with THIS loved one,
THANKFULLY, I have tools from Alanon including meetings, literature, a couple of Alanon friends, (my sponsor sadly, died a while back), the Serenity Prayer and the slogan "Let Go and Let God". I also have this SR Forum, which helps me greatly.
Acceptance
has been the key to my personal peace about my A son. (I love the Serenity Prayer)
I now KNOW in my heart, mind and soul that
I Can't Change or Control my son's life. Nor anyone else's life.
(Although in the past many times I tried to get him help and gave him $$ - Today I no longer do these things).
I can and have changed - only myself. My attitudes and beliefs and behavior. These are what I have control over.
Every day I Pray and
One of my prayers is that
I Turn My A Son - Over to God.
I "Let Go and Let God". I give my son to God daily.
I ask God to take care of him. Because I can't.
I have TOTAL faith that God Will Take care of my son, wherever his addiction (s) have and will take him.
Today I admit the seriousness of the disease of alcoholism and addiction, accept it, and live a fairly peaceful and happy life - by relying on God - and - with the wisdom of Alanon , (AND the wise SR members in this F&F forum, especially when I can't get to a meeting).
And thankfully, my health, although I still have my autoimmune diseases, is much more stable - because I am focusing more on my own personal weaknesses and illnesses, instead of on those of my son (and others).
Your post brought me to a few tears. Yes, this possible and sometimes true reality of our loved ones' "fate" - can be so sad and painful!!!!
I could have written a very similar post years ago, as I too, worked in large office building within a homeless area in a very large city. I rode to work in a van pool bus, and we drove through skid row. Every morning I feared seeing my alcoholic father, who at that time was living, and continued to live his last years on skid row. I usually just avoided looking when we passed that area. I walked by homeless beggars, (with eyes averted) many days when going to lunch outside the building with co-workers. Some times I gave a homeless woman my leftovers from my lunch.
At Thanksgiving and Christmas our local TV stations would show homeless/poor people in line in skid row, waiting for turkey dinners, and I would always turn the channel as soon as those stories came on, for fear of seeing my dad. At that point I did not have the Alanon program or counseling, so I think, (know) that I just "stuffed" those images and fears, and didn't talk about them. To anyone. (By the way, my dad died on skid row, killed by another alcoholic, in a fight over a bottle. )
As I said, during the times I just mentioned, I wasn't into a program, so I just "stuffed" my thoughts and feelings. Years later I became very sick with a couple of serious
autoimmune illnesses, and I think not knowing how to cope with my dad's alcoholism and his "fate" (and later, my alcoholic husband), may have contributed to my poor health.
FAST FORWARD many years.
Today my oldest adult son is an addict. He lives in another state, a VERY COLD state and has been homeless on and off for many years. He has CHOSEN NOT to give up his addiction (pot - yes, pot CAN be addictive and destroy lives). He is also Bipolar, yet refuses treatment. My son and I have not spoken for a long time - since I had to tell him I couldn't send him any (more) $$.
The reality is that today he might be homeless again this winter. And my heart is torn - ripped - for just a little bit when I think of him and the possibilities.
But this time around, with THIS loved one,
THANKFULLY, I have tools from Alanon including meetings, literature, a couple of Alanon friends, (my sponsor sadly, died a while back), the Serenity Prayer and the slogan "Let Go and Let God". I also have this SR Forum, which helps me greatly.
Acceptance
has been the key to my personal peace about my A son. (I love the Serenity Prayer)
I now KNOW in my heart, mind and soul that
I Can't Change or Control my son's life. Nor anyone else's life.
(Although in the past many times I tried to get him help and gave him $$ - Today I no longer do these things).
I can and have changed - only myself. My attitudes and beliefs and behavior. These are what I have control over.
Every day I Pray and
One of my prayers is that
I Turn My A Son - Over to God.
I "Let Go and Let God". I give my son to God daily.
I ask God to take care of him. Because I can't.
I have TOTAL faith that God Will Take care of my son, wherever his addiction (s) have and will take him.
Today I admit the seriousness of the disease of alcoholism and addiction, accept it, and live a fairly peaceful and happy life - by relying on God - and - with the wisdom of Alanon , (AND the wise SR members in this F&F forum, especially when I can't get to a meeting).
And thankfully, my health, although I still have my autoimmune diseases, is much more stable - because I am focusing more on my own personal weaknesses and illnesses, instead of on those of my son (and others).
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 8,985
Wow Alcsis, that is quite a story. You really have been through the wringer.
The "Let go and let God" is big to me. It took me years . . . .well . . .I still have to switch back into let-god-mode semi-regularly. (For those of you who aren't believers maybe you can chime in with your version of letting go)
As a believer I keep reminding myself that this is God's world and everyone here is God's people. Yep, I might be called to step in and do something sometimes but probably more often than not, I need to shut-up and sit-down; everyone is living the life they need to and I am so very, very not in charge.
Smarie, I probably feel most not accepting with people like you and I apologies for any times I have tried "to fix" you. I feel I am more accepting of alcoholics than I am of codependents like myself but we are pretty much the same thing as the alcoholic just addicted "to fixing" others. Sigh.
The "Let go and let God" is big to me. It took me years . . . .well . . .I still have to switch back into let-god-mode semi-regularly. (For those of you who aren't believers maybe you can chime in with your version of letting go)
As a believer I keep reminding myself that this is God's world and everyone here is God's people. Yep, I might be called to step in and do something sometimes but probably more often than not, I need to shut-up and sit-down; everyone is living the life they need to and I am so very, very not in charge.
Smarie, I probably feel most not accepting with people like you and I apologies for any times I have tried "to fix" you. I feel I am more accepting of alcoholics than I am of codependents like myself but we are pretty much the same thing as the alcoholic just addicted "to fixing" others. Sigh.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Some years ago, a school chum organized a reunion for a bunch of us who majored in the same subject. At some point I realized that our classmate Lucy was engaged to be married for the third time. Later on, I spoke with her best friend of many years, Ethyl. Lucy had married in haste the first time (she was/is impulsive). I wondered, what became of Husband #2? and Ethyl said, he was depressed. Lucy is forgiving to a fault. I asked if she really divorced him because he was depressed. No, she said. Lucy divorced him because he was depressed and refused to seek any sort of treatment for it.
I worked with a woman who was a tea-totaller. Her mother was an alcoholic. Her grandmother was, too. She said to me, "Whether it's nature or nurture, I'm screwed." She'd made the decision that made the most sense to her.
My late husband knew booze was taking a toll on his body. Every day of his life, he chose not to get help. Every day after I realized this, I chose to stay.
I struggle to keep from telling people the right way to do things. It's more of an issue at work, where it's a small business and we all need to pitch in with most everything. Pitch in, I realized, does not mean, "Tell them their idea will not work and they need to back-pedal and do it my way." Colleague A is excited about decorating the business for the Holiday decorating contest and is certain we'll win a prize. We never have. I suspect the decorations she envisions will not stay upright. But, I realize, too, I might not know everything about her plan. Telling her we have zero chance of winning is being a downer, and jumping in with my corrections is not giving her a chance to develop her own skills. Plus, I have my own work to do. If I'm wrong, we'll happily celebrate the result. If I'm asked for input or help, I'll be glad to offer it. I'll also be happy to not get the reputation as an irritating know-it-all.
I worked with a woman who was a tea-totaller. Her mother was an alcoholic. Her grandmother was, too. She said to me, "Whether it's nature or nurture, I'm screwed." She'd made the decision that made the most sense to her.
My late husband knew booze was taking a toll on his body. Every day of his life, he chose not to get help. Every day after I realized this, I chose to stay.
I struggle to keep from telling people the right way to do things. It's more of an issue at work, where it's a small business and we all need to pitch in with most everything. Pitch in, I realized, does not mean, "Tell them their idea will not work and they need to back-pedal and do it my way." Colleague A is excited about decorating the business for the Holiday decorating contest and is certain we'll win a prize. We never have. I suspect the decorations she envisions will not stay upright. But, I realize, too, I might not know everything about her plan. Telling her we have zero chance of winning is being a downer, and jumping in with my corrections is not giving her a chance to develop her own skills. Plus, I have my own work to do. If I'm wrong, we'll happily celebrate the result. If I'm asked for input or help, I'll be glad to offer it. I'll also be happy to not get the reputation as an irritating know-it-all.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,235
I think that is why my therapist has always encouraged me into service work.
It's a marathon, not a sprint, and you're not doing anyone any favors if you tap yourself out. I also found that most people didn't want to be treated with pity, but with dignity. If I taught my classes under the guise of "you poor poor people. I am here to save you from your ignorance" most of my students would have been so insulted they would have marched out the door. A good portion of them were recovering addicts and ex-convicts, and it was incredible because you got the feeling that they were grabbing at every chance at hope that came their way. On occasion you'd get a creep who would try to feel you up but the group as a whole would put an end to that.
Even though I'm naturally introverted, and my current position is a better match for my disposition, I look back at those days with great fondness. I was so lucky.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i think we need to clear up that not every alcoholic ends up homeless and not every homeless person is an alcoholic/addict. people are marginalized for a wide variety of reasons. i doubt that anyone sleeping on the streets, or in a mission, or a shelter decided at 10 years old that HEY i'm going to CHOOSE to be one of those people that haven't bathed in 3 weeks and asks for handouts in front of the 7-ll as a career.
for some, stuff happens and they find themselves in untenable situations. for some being on the streets is preferable to the home life or situation. for some there just is no place in society for them. many have untreated mental health issues. some don't WANT to do the socially acceptable thing like get a job, and be responsible, pay bills, get up every g/d morning and go work for the man. some are now so far gone they simply know no other way.
we can ACCEPT the reality of alcoholism. but we cannot determine the FATE of such. it is not our place to do so. for those that subscribe to the AA philosophy - Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do
not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer
from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
for some, stuff happens and they find themselves in untenable situations. for some being on the streets is preferable to the home life or situation. for some there just is no place in society for them. many have untreated mental health issues. some don't WANT to do the socially acceptable thing like get a job, and be responsible, pay bills, get up every g/d morning and go work for the man. some are now so far gone they simply know no other way.
we can ACCEPT the reality of alcoholism. but we cannot determine the FATE of such. it is not our place to do so. for those that subscribe to the AA philosophy - Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do
not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer
from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
I can only tell you that on his way to homelessness, my alcoholic made me almost homeless. That is a sobering fact for me. We had a lovely apartment, and I painted the walls, picked my own colors, decorated the place, we started talking seriously about kids, and then not even a year later, I had to run for my life and move out, with virtually nothing, just pets and my office furniture and equipment; it could all fit into a sedan. And then he lost everything within 2 years. True, he is not exactly homeless, living in his mom's basement. I do not have a mom to bail me out, my dad is 5,000 miles away, so I had to fight for my place in this community, and failure and homelessness were quite realistic options, but there was a way out. And I am grateful for it every waking moment. And I am more than happy today.
When you see a person, you cannot really know what is the story, how did they get there, how many chances were they given, how many hearts did they break, was it substance abuse, or was it a separate mental illness, or maybe they bankrupted because they could not pay hospital bills, etc. I wish to everybody on this planet a wonderful life, and that all their dreams come true, but I also know that I have no superpowers and cannot fix anyone's life, and can only mind my own business.
It is what it is, and nothing changes if nothing changes.
When you see a person, you cannot really know what is the story, how did they get there, how many chances were they given, how many hearts did they break, was it substance abuse, or was it a separate mental illness, or maybe they bankrupted because they could not pay hospital bills, etc. I wish to everybody on this planet a wonderful life, and that all their dreams come true, but I also know that I have no superpowers and cannot fix anyone's life, and can only mind my own business.
It is what it is, and nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
During the time when XAH was bouncing between rehabs and getting into hard drugs (his last epic relapse which is when I hit my rock bottom), I had the most vivid dreams - of him being dead or seeing him homeless.
I plan to volunteer over the holidays - and there are resources for homeless in our community, in fact, plenty of them. Programs that give addicts and alcoholics in recovery jobs. Even with felony records. The kicker is you have to be clean and sober.
I am not buying "not enough resources to support recovery" excuse. I am also done with survivors guilt mostly......I feel empathy towards addicts, it must be awful to be that way.
I plan to volunteer over the holidays - and there are resources for homeless in our community, in fact, plenty of them. Programs that give addicts and alcoholics in recovery jobs. Even with felony records. The kicker is you have to be clean and sober.
I am not buying "not enough resources to support recovery" excuse. I am also done with survivors guilt mostly......I feel empathy towards addicts, it must be awful to be that way.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
Thank you for this subject, OP . . . it is very important to me.
Acceptance is everything.
I find it very difficult, because I get "hopeful," especially when the alcoholic/addict is in rehab. I keep thinking "this might be the time."
I have a terrible time with the ravages of the disease on the body/mind/spirit, because I have a spiritual belief that "the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit" (the Catholic version I was taught as a child, but that I still believe) - AND I believe "our" lifetimes are gifts that are not to be wasted . . . (so lots of judgments there).
Everyone knows what ravaged individuals look like, and I can't seem to shake my core beliefs that what they are doing is "wrong" (even if I also believe that "everyone is on their own paths").
Add a person you love into the mix and it becomes almost impossible (for me) to reconcile or be okay with . . .
Tonight I spoke to my relative who is in rehab and he told me he has been sick for a week (but won't think of going to the doctor). I know my concern about him creates anxiety in him, but I panic when I hear there is anything wrong . . . that is just my typical, habitual, and I believe, instinctive reaction.
Acceptance, for me, would take a lot of work (which I am willing to do) - it would entail focusing on the fact that every person's life is their business - that even if I love them, I cannot stop them from self-destructing . . . that seems so counterintuitive to me . . . I want to "fix" like any good relative would with chicken soup (being facetious), and other magic cures . . .
I also have a core belief that says "never give up," so not giving up = concern, and concern = non-acceptance of "what is."
I find this so difficult.
I was also passing out resources to homeless people with a friend - we had a very successful drive that we did - but I can't do it right now - I never felt judgment of "those people," but to think of my relative out on the streets - it's an unbearable thought. I don't know who could be okay with that, I really don't (unless you don't love the person). If you love them, it's going to hurt.
Acceptance is everything.
I find it very difficult, because I get "hopeful," especially when the alcoholic/addict is in rehab. I keep thinking "this might be the time."
I have a terrible time with the ravages of the disease on the body/mind/spirit, because I have a spiritual belief that "the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit" (the Catholic version I was taught as a child, but that I still believe) - AND I believe "our" lifetimes are gifts that are not to be wasted . . . (so lots of judgments there).
Everyone knows what ravaged individuals look like, and I can't seem to shake my core beliefs that what they are doing is "wrong" (even if I also believe that "everyone is on their own paths").
Add a person you love into the mix and it becomes almost impossible (for me) to reconcile or be okay with . . .
Tonight I spoke to my relative who is in rehab and he told me he has been sick for a week (but won't think of going to the doctor). I know my concern about him creates anxiety in him, but I panic when I hear there is anything wrong . . . that is just my typical, habitual, and I believe, instinctive reaction.
Acceptance, for me, would take a lot of work (which I am willing to do) - it would entail focusing on the fact that every person's life is their business - that even if I love them, I cannot stop them from self-destructing . . . that seems so counterintuitive to me . . . I want to "fix" like any good relative would with chicken soup (being facetious), and other magic cures . . .
I also have a core belief that says "never give up," so not giving up = concern, and concern = non-acceptance of "what is."
I find this so difficult.
I was also passing out resources to homeless people with a friend - we had a very successful drive that we did - but I can't do it right now - I never felt judgment of "those people," but to think of my relative out on the streets - it's an unbearable thought. I don't know who could be okay with that, I really don't (unless you don't love the person). If you love them, it's going to hurt.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 141
[QUOTE=AnvilheadI. I think we need to clear up that not every alcoholic ends up homeless and not every homeless person is an alcoholic/addict. people are marginalized for a wide variety of reasons. i doubt that anyone sleeping on the streets, or in a mission, or a shelter decided at 10 years old that HEY i'm going to CHOOSE to be one of those people that haven't bathed in 3 weeks and asks for handouts in front of the 7-ll as a career.
for some, stuff happens and they find themselves in untenable situations. many have untreated mental health issues.
Those who do
not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer
from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
*******Thanks Anvil for your clarification about those who end up homeless or in cheap rooms on skid row. (I reposted part of your post).
My father had severe depression and probably PTSD from a war injury that caused chronic shooting pains in his neck/head. (Shrapnel could not be removed from his neck). I am fairly sure these conditions greatly complicated his recovery (really lack of) from alcoholism. One of our Alanon readings states that only a very small percentage of alcoholics end up on skid row. (I think 5% but not sure). For many years I was ashamed to know that my dad was one of the unfortunate 5%.
My son (addicted to pot) was diagnosed ADHD and later bipolar, (his dad, my XAH is also bipolar and an A). Yes, this certainly complicates and hinders his recovery. I don't believe anything he says, and I fear his inability to be honest with others and himself probably is a great barrier to his ability or willingness to get clean and sober. He doesn't admit to any mental health or addiction problems. He is a pot head - starting using when he was 16. And so, he also has joined the small percentage of A's who end up on skid row or homeless.
I have attended open AA meetings and I see so many in recovery who are not on the streets. (As far as I know.)
My friends in Alanon have husbands, some in recovery and some still drinking. These alcoholics aren't homeless.
But, I guess my family drew a loaded deck of cards in the game of life, and a couple of the A's ended up in very bad situations (on the streets).
At least my sister, who developed alcoholism late in life has a small home, albeit not in the best neighborhood.
Although she struggles with depression and alcoholism, she is not on the streets. As her disease progresses (she denies her alcoholism), hopefully she will be able to stay off the streets and or shelters. Time will tell.
I am so very thankful I am not an A since it runs so strong in my family. But I sure have had my own issues; codependency, and am in recovery and continue to work on ME and my problems daily and am farrr from perfect.
This $@&n disease is absolutely a Family Disease and I hate it!!!!!
for some, stuff happens and they find themselves in untenable situations. many have untreated mental health issues.
Those who do
not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer
from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest
*******Thanks Anvil for your clarification about those who end up homeless or in cheap rooms on skid row. (I reposted part of your post).
My father had severe depression and probably PTSD from a war injury that caused chronic shooting pains in his neck/head. (Shrapnel could not be removed from his neck). I am fairly sure these conditions greatly complicated his recovery (really lack of) from alcoholism. One of our Alanon readings states that only a very small percentage of alcoholics end up on skid row. (I think 5% but not sure). For many years I was ashamed to know that my dad was one of the unfortunate 5%.
My son (addicted to pot) was diagnosed ADHD and later bipolar, (his dad, my XAH is also bipolar and an A). Yes, this certainly complicates and hinders his recovery. I don't believe anything he says, and I fear his inability to be honest with others and himself probably is a great barrier to his ability or willingness to get clean and sober. He doesn't admit to any mental health or addiction problems. He is a pot head - starting using when he was 16. And so, he also has joined the small percentage of A's who end up on skid row or homeless.
I have attended open AA meetings and I see so many in recovery who are not on the streets. (As far as I know.)
My friends in Alanon have husbands, some in recovery and some still drinking. These alcoholics aren't homeless.
But, I guess my family drew a loaded deck of cards in the game of life, and a couple of the A's ended up in very bad situations (on the streets).
At least my sister, who developed alcoholism late in life has a small home, albeit not in the best neighborhood.
Although she struggles with depression and alcoholism, she is not on the streets. As her disease progresses (she denies her alcoholism), hopefully she will be able to stay off the streets and or shelters. Time will tell.
I am so very thankful I am not an A since it runs so strong in my family. But I sure have had my own issues; codependency, and am in recovery and continue to work on ME and my problems daily and am farrr from perfect.
This $@&n disease is absolutely a Family Disease and I hate it!!!!!
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 869
Today, right before my encounter with the homeless, I woke a young boy who fell asleep on the bus. I was worried as we were almost at the last stop and that he was going to miss his own or already had. In my mind I thought, what if he missed his stop? I need to take care of that because I don’t want him to miss it because I know I would hate if I missed mine. I immediately absorbed his problem and felt the need to intervene. He looked up at me like, why did this girl just wake me up?? lol.
Again, the need to fix outcomes. Live and let live.
Again, the need to fix outcomes. Live and let live.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
When we start trying to save people who don't want and didn't ask to be saved, that's not nobility or heroism, it's more like arrogance. Maybe that's not the right word, but it is definitely more about us and how we feel than it is about helping them. Sometimes people need to fall down in order to learn how to get themselves back up again.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
kindergarten rule - we will keep our hands and feet and bodies to ourselves.
S, that is twice that you invaded another's personal space and attempted to change their state because of what YOU THOUGHT they needed. that's not compassionate, that's damn rude. if you really want to FIX someone, i suggest you start with yourself and once you have that accomplished, then maybe open up to the wider community in the appropriate setting.
S, that is twice that you invaded another's personal space and attempted to change their state because of what YOU THOUGHT they needed. that's not compassionate, that's damn rude. if you really want to FIX someone, i suggest you start with yourself and once you have that accomplished, then maybe open up to the wider community in the appropriate setting.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
SMarie, do you drink? Or do any other recreational drugs? It just seems like you have some cognitive distortions and they are common with substance use.
This has been going on for so long that I can't imagine a fully functional person being able to live this way. No judgement - heck, I'm in recovery from every distortion on the planet
This has been going on for so long that I can't imagine a fully functional person being able to live this way. No judgement - heck, I'm in recovery from every distortion on the planet
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