How best to support a friend who is choosing to date an alcoholic?
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How best to support a friend who is choosing to date an alcoholic?
All,
One of my closest friends (who lives far away) has told me that she's moving forward with a relationship with an alcoholic.
Backstory - they started dating when he was sober, he started drinking again after a few months (she had already fallen in love with him), bad behaviors occurred which caused them to fight and something escalated which I do not have the details about so they broke up. She said he is now seeking treatment so she's decided to re-engage in the relationship, he is attending a daily program which she attends with him to "support him", and he's been sober 30 days.
She is familiar with alcoholism, it runs in her family and she has a sibling who is an active alcoholic. She has multiple aunts and uncles who are in active recovery and have been sober many years whom she loves and told me about this guy "I don't want to give up on him. I know there is a great person because I've seen it when we first dated. I know people can be successful in recovery because of my family and I'm not willing to give up this great guy " etc etc She also said " I know that from the outside this is crazy and I would never choose this for myself but here I am"
It is that last statement that was really triggering for me BUT I listened and made recommendations that if she does choose to stay (which she is choosing), she should create her boundary list and accept this is HIS recovery to own and not hers to manage (which I know she's going to do).
OK ....so this is the thing I'm curious about from the group....I am really frightened for my friend because of my own experience and what i'm learning. I felt like I couldn't communicate it to her because she set up the conversation saying " I don't want anyone else's opinion and I don't want to be judged. I have to figure this out on my own"
I am really trying to learn through my own recovery that I can't "help" people that don't want help BUT it is really hard to feel silenced. I think I know the answer which is to respect her wishes to figure this out on her own. I guess I am just extremely worried for her.
If you were me, what would you do?
One of my closest friends (who lives far away) has told me that she's moving forward with a relationship with an alcoholic.
Backstory - they started dating when he was sober, he started drinking again after a few months (she had already fallen in love with him), bad behaviors occurred which caused them to fight and something escalated which I do not have the details about so they broke up. She said he is now seeking treatment so she's decided to re-engage in the relationship, he is attending a daily program which she attends with him to "support him", and he's been sober 30 days.
She is familiar with alcoholism, it runs in her family and she has a sibling who is an active alcoholic. She has multiple aunts and uncles who are in active recovery and have been sober many years whom she loves and told me about this guy "I don't want to give up on him. I know there is a great person because I've seen it when we first dated. I know people can be successful in recovery because of my family and I'm not willing to give up this great guy " etc etc She also said " I know that from the outside this is crazy and I would never choose this for myself but here I am"
It is that last statement that was really triggering for me BUT I listened and made recommendations that if she does choose to stay (which she is choosing), she should create her boundary list and accept this is HIS recovery to own and not hers to manage (which I know she's going to do).
OK ....so this is the thing I'm curious about from the group....I am really frightened for my friend because of my own experience and what i'm learning. I felt like I couldn't communicate it to her because she set up the conversation saying " I don't want anyone else's opinion and I don't want to be judged. I have to figure this out on my own"
I am really trying to learn through my own recovery that I can't "help" people that don't want help BUT it is really hard to feel silenced. I think I know the answer which is to respect her wishes to figure this out on her own. I guess I am just extremely worried for her.
If you were me, what would you do?
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i think i would, in some way,shape of form, pose some things to her to
ask herself
- why she fell in love in such a short time
-why,with this, " I know that from the outside this is crazy and I would never choose this for myself but here I am"
she is allowing it.
im a friend. one boundary i have is if someone comes to me with something similar to,"" I don't want anyone else's opinion and I don't want to be judged. I have to figure this out on my own" ."
i will stop them and tell them if they just want to vent to take it somewhere else. im not going to sit and listen to insanity without giving my opinion or experience.
maybe even something like,"i reach out for suggestions from time to time. what makes you so much better than me that you cant get opinions and can figure it out on your own?"
id suggest setting your own boundaries and explaining why- that you have family experience with alcoholism and wont be a doormat for anyone to just "vent"
but if she wants opinions, feel free.
ask herself
- why she fell in love in such a short time
-why,with this, " I know that from the outside this is crazy and I would never choose this for myself but here I am"
she is allowing it.
im a friend. one boundary i have is if someone comes to me with something similar to,"" I don't want anyone else's opinion and I don't want to be judged. I have to figure this out on my own" ."
i will stop them and tell them if they just want to vent to take it somewhere else. im not going to sit and listen to insanity without giving my opinion or experience.
maybe even something like,"i reach out for suggestions from time to time. what makes you so much better than me that you cant get opinions and can figure it out on your own?"
id suggest setting your own boundaries and explaining why- that you have family experience with alcoholism and wont be a doormat for anyone to just "vent"
but if she wants opinions, feel free.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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"Perfect! I didn't want to hear any more alcoholic drama anyway! Good luck!"
Then I'd stop her and suggest therapy or Al Anon any time she started with alcoholic drama stories.
I'm one who really doesn't want to hear it. I can't help...and she doesn't want it anyway.
I have an (ex) friend who used to "vent" all the time about one issue after another. After a while I really did say just that, "I don't want to hear it."
Otherwise she'd drone on and on.
I mean, I had my own ish to deal with - I didn't need hers too.
"Don't complain." ~ Maya Angelou
Then I'd stop her and suggest therapy or Al Anon any time she started with alcoholic drama stories.
I'm one who really doesn't want to hear it. I can't help...and she doesn't want it anyway.I have an (ex) friend who used to "vent" all the time about one issue after another. After a while I really did say just that, "I don't want to hear it."
Otherwise she'd drone on and on.
I mean, I had my own ish to deal with - I didn't need hers too.
"Don't complain." ~ Maya Angelou
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Location: Chicago
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I had to date an alcoholic before I could forgive myself for not being enough to have saved my own mother from alcoholism.
People have to do what they have to do. Let her know you're there for her when she's ready, and then leave her to it. Continue to take care of yourself.
People have to do what they have to do. Let her know you're there for her when she's ready, and then leave her to it. Continue to take care of yourself.
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Thank you for your responses. I'm remembering something I've learned on this site which is "Not my circus, not my monkey!"
I think that remembering that quote is probably the best path forward. As many of you already know, I'm in the middle of my own crazy circus at the moment. It's probably best for me to deal with my own issues.
I think that remembering that quote is probably the best path forward. As many of you already know, I'm in the middle of my own crazy circus at the moment. It's probably best for me to deal with my own issues.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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BAW....I would probably just say.....best of luck....if she was a mid-level "friend"....because you already know that she is going to do what she wants to, any way....she has already told you so....("I don't want any feedback")....
And, you know that it is easier to turn back the tides than to convince someone who thinks that they are in "love" to leave the lover.....
Now, if it were me...and, this was a true deep, deep friendship....like, with a person who will give me their last dollar and the shirt off of their back (and, has done so, in the past)....then I would go a step further....and, tell her the truth!
I think a really good friend is o ne who will tell you the truth when nobody else will....
Now, she might still get pissed for it...probably will....but, if I care about a person enough, I am willing to take that consequence. There will always come a time, that she will look back and know that you cared enough to tell the truth.
That is my answer to your question....that is just how I roll....(lol).....
And, you know that it is easier to turn back the tides than to convince someone who thinks that they are in "love" to leave the lover.....
Now, if it were me...and, this was a true deep, deep friendship....like, with a person who will give me their last dollar and the shirt off of their back (and, has done so, in the past)....then I would go a step further....and, tell her the truth!
I think a really good friend is o ne who will tell you the truth when nobody else will....
Now, she might still get pissed for it...probably will....but, if I care about a person enough, I am willing to take that consequence. There will always come a time, that she will look back and know that you cared enough to tell the truth.
That is my answer to your question....that is just how I roll....(lol).....
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I think I would say something as well, then drop it. You could say, "I know you are not open to opinions and advice, but as your friend and the fact I am well-versed in being involved with an addict myself, I feel it's my duty to tell you. If it offends you, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say it anyway."
Say it, then drop it.
Just my 2 cents
COD
Say it, then drop it.
Just my 2 cents
COD
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I think having an understanding of, she is doing what she knows and feels most comfortable to her, living life with alcoholism.
Remember your recovery is your recovery and part of that recovery is walking the walk – not my circus not my monkeys is right!!!
If you become triggered by her sharing with you her alcoholic drama, explain to her that you don’t wish to relive the unhappy times in your life and that it’s best she seek al-anon or therapy for those issues. If she can’t understand that then it’s time to detach.
The A’s are not the only ones who need to change people-places and things in order to stay on the road to recovery. I needed to let go of a few people in my life after I ended my relationship with an A because they were also not healthy for me and I had to detach from some family members as well.
Remember your recovery is your recovery and part of that recovery is walking the walk – not my circus not my monkeys is right!!!
If you become triggered by her sharing with you her alcoholic drama, explain to her that you don’t wish to relive the unhappy times in your life and that it’s best she seek al-anon or therapy for those issues. If she can’t understand that then it’s time to detach.
The A’s are not the only ones who need to change people-places and things in order to stay on the road to recovery. I needed to let go of a few people in my life after I ended my relationship with an A because they were also not healthy for me and I had to detach from some family members as well.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Now, if it were me...and, this was a true deep, deep friendship....like, with a person who will give me their last dollar and the shirt off of their back (and, has done so, in the past)....then I would go a step further....and, tell her the truth!
I think a really good friend is o ne who will tell you the truth when nobody else will....
Now, she might still get pissed for it...probably will....but, if I care about a person enough, I am willing to take that consequence. There will always come a time, that she will look back and know that you cared enough to tell the truth.
That is my answer to your question....that is just how I roll....(lol).....
If I do choose to move forward to tell her the "truth," as I see it, how do I do it?
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Originally Posted by BAW81
Man...just as I thought I knew what to do, this response causes me to question myself. She is one of my BEST friends. I love her and know she loves me.
If I do choose to move forward to tell her the "truth," as I see it, how do I do it?
If I do choose to move forward to tell her the "truth," as I see it, how do I do it?
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
The woman I spoke about in my first post was my very best friend for over 20 years.
I had tried over and over to steer her away from her constant playing-of-her-misery-tape. In the last couple years of the friendship, I started spending less and less time with her and told her I couldn't deal with all her problems and that I was worried about her. She just kept ramping up the drama more and more. I tried the, "I don't want to hear it!" thing several times. She was caught in a loop and her mindset was really unhealthy for her, and for me. I told her I couldn't handle the vent sessions. I told her I'd be around if things got better. Realistically, I knew the friendship was all but over.
Finally one Thanksgiving she was an absolute wreck. I left and then called a couple days later and said the friendship was over. That was it. It broke my heart, but I'm much happier without someone in my life who refuses to stop dwelling on her pain.
Like they say, "Let go or be dragged."
I had tried over and over to steer her away from her constant playing-of-her-misery-tape. In the last couple years of the friendship, I started spending less and less time with her and told her I couldn't deal with all her problems and that I was worried about her. She just kept ramping up the drama more and more. I tried the, "I don't want to hear it!" thing several times. She was caught in a loop and her mindset was really unhealthy for her, and for me. I told her I couldn't handle the vent sessions. I told her I'd be around if things got better. Realistically, I knew the friendship was all but over.
Finally one Thanksgiving she was an absolute wreck. I left and then called a couple days later and said the friendship was over. That was it. It broke my heart, but I'm much happier without someone in my life who refuses to stop dwelling on her pain.
Like they say, "Let go or be dragged."
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
She has not *asked* you for your truth, and in this case, she is extremely unlikely to hear it.
I'm going to sit with my feelings today and explore how I feel. I did like COD's recommendation that I just share my thoughts with her and I can leave it at that.
She's not the type of person who will drag me into her drama, quite the opposite. I can already tell she's isolating herself ( took her months to tell me all of this was going on ) and that is the behavior that concerns me. Been there...done that.
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BAW.....I think this is a judgement call. Personally, I liked COD's suggestion, as well.
Of course, she won't hear you NOW. She will remember when things begin to go south, though. People newly in love are the blindest creatures on earth...lol...
Remember the golden rule...."Say what you mean...mean what you say...but, don't say it mean.
Of course, she won't hear you NOW. She will remember when things begin to go south, though. People newly in love are the blindest creatures on earth...lol...
Remember the golden rule...."Say what you mean...mean what you say...but, don't say it mean.
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Sometimes, even very close friends and family are unhealthy for our own recovery. It's okay to take this one day at a time.
Pray, wait, enjoy your life. It's okay, and VERY important, to create a life that you absolutely enjoy.... how many of us, alcoholic or not, relapse slowly back into old lives... old habits... old patterns?
When in doubt, turn towards something that fills you with joy. Can't find that? Then feel the feelings as they come... let them flow... and turn back to something that feels good as you're able.
I'm finding the healthier I get, the more I'm able to bring to any relationship. If that means to first create a safe healing zone for myself, I'm okay with that.
Pray, wait, enjoy your life. It's okay, and VERY important, to create a life that you absolutely enjoy.... how many of us, alcoholic or not, relapse slowly back into old lives... old habits... old patterns?
When in doubt, turn towards something that fills you with joy. Can't find that? Then feel the feelings as they come... let them flow... and turn back to something that feels good as you're able.
I'm finding the healthier I get, the more I'm able to bring to any relationship. If that means to first create a safe healing zone for myself, I'm okay with that.
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I would not do anything. She knows what she is getting herself into, yet is continuing to make that choice. You are correct, you cannot stop anyone else from making a bad choice. Her need to have a man in her life is greater than the horrible outcome she most certainly also knows will be coming. If she is willing to go in with her eyes wide open, that is most certainly her choice.
Those people can be triggering, or it is for me. I would have to limit my conversations with her, but that is just me. You have to make that choice for you.
Those people can be triggering, or it is for me. I would have to limit my conversations with her, but that is just me. You have to make that choice for you.
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Don't offer unsolicited advice, just be there for her when she needs to talk.
It is common for people who come from alcoholic families to either become one or become involved with one. It's what they're most familiar with.
It is common for people who come from alcoholic families to either become one or become involved with one. It's what they're most familiar with.
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There is a saying on this forum......
Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
My friend who is an addiction therapist told me that us codies are worse then the addicts themselves. Ugh!!
Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
My friend who is an addiction therapist told me that us codies are worse then the addicts themselves. Ugh!!
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You could have a girls night with snacks and fuzzy blankets and read stories from this forum together. If I knew what I know now - I would run from my XAH like h@ll. I don't regret meeting him because I have DS now, but this place is an eye opener.
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All,
I want to thank everyone for their comments and feedback yesterday. I took everything to heart, truly. After sitting with my thoughts for awhile, I wrote them out. After thinking some more, I called my friend and said "I heard you when you told me that you aren't looking for other people's opinions or advice but I do have some thoughts that I would like to share with you. If you do not want to hear them, I completely respect your wishes." She responded really well to this approach and told me she was interested so I shared my thoughts, with love and kindness. She listened and we had a really nice chat and now I'm leaving it at that.
The former me would've raced in to "help her see the light" and most likely created more chaos in doing so....This (new) approach feels so much better. I said what I felt I needed to say and did it love and now I plan to move forward with my own life and my own experiences. I still have my wonderful treasured friend, she was extremely grateful for the talk, and her life and choices will continue to remain her own.
Thank you!
I want to thank everyone for their comments and feedback yesterday. I took everything to heart, truly. After sitting with my thoughts for awhile, I wrote them out. After thinking some more, I called my friend and said "I heard you when you told me that you aren't looking for other people's opinions or advice but I do have some thoughts that I would like to share with you. If you do not want to hear them, I completely respect your wishes." She responded really well to this approach and told me she was interested so I shared my thoughts, with love and kindness. She listened and we had a really nice chat and now I'm leaving it at that.
The former me would've raced in to "help her see the light" and most likely created more chaos in doing so....This (new) approach feels so much better. I said what I felt I needed to say and did it love and now I plan to move forward with my own life and my own experiences. I still have my wonderful treasured friend, she was extremely grateful for the talk, and her life and choices will continue to remain her own.
Thank you!
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