Wedding vows
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Wedding vows
So l left after 9 years of marriage and 20 years of friendship. No doubt that my decision was correct because my husband refused to seek long term support and the decline in our marriage got to a point of no return. What hits me hard is the latest tactic of manipulation being that I didn't stick to our wedding vows by abandoning him. I gave ultimatums and not support. Am I wrong in feeling as though it was me who was let down, lied to and neglected and the wedding vows stunt just a desperate attempt to hurt me further?
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Nope, you are not wrong in feeling that way, C.
First: You didn't "abandon" him. He is not a helpless pet or a young child. He is an adult human being who is, or should be, responsible for himself. He made his choices and now he is experiencing the consequences of them. That is how it works.
Second: A marriage cannot be made to work when only one of the people in it is making an effort. If vows were not stuck to, it was mutual. There is no way he could have been part of a healthy partnership when alcohol is his first priority, and there is no way you could have been part of a healthy partnership when you were in the "partnership" ALONE.
Glad you found us, C. Hope you can take the time to read around the forum, making sure not to miss the "stickies" at the top of the page. There's a lot of education and inspiration to be found here.
First: You didn't "abandon" him. He is not a helpless pet or a young child. He is an adult human being who is, or should be, responsible for himself. He made his choices and now he is experiencing the consequences of them. That is how it works.
Second: A marriage cannot be made to work when only one of the people in it is making an effort. If vows were not stuck to, it was mutual. There is no way he could have been part of a healthy partnership when alcohol is his first priority, and there is no way you could have been part of a healthy partnership when you were in the "partnership" ALONE.
Glad you found us, C. Hope you can take the time to read around the forum, making sure not to miss the "stickies" at the top of the page. There's a lot of education and inspiration to be found here.
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Hi C, he probably knows you well enough to push the right buttons, and if your wedding vows are something you took seriously he'll go for those.
Did they also include cherish? because he wasn't doing much of that was he? As a healthy person you decided not to live in a world of disfunction, supporting his choices and going down with him.
His anger is probably masking guilt.
Did they also include cherish? because he wasn't doing much of that was he? As a healthy person you decided not to live in a world of disfunction, supporting his choices and going down with him.
His anger is probably masking guilt.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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In my experience, it's just a "thing" to have a go at you with. The A will use whatever they know upsets or angers or guilts you.
My AH used to do similar until I learnt in Al-anon to detach. Giving no reaction is the best way to stop them, in my experience. They will grab onto any reaction you give.
I agree with above poster, it comes from their feeling of guilt.
My AH used to do similar until I learnt in Al-anon to detach. Giving no reaction is the best way to stop them, in my experience. They will grab onto any reaction you give.
I agree with above poster, it comes from their feeling of guilt.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
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My STBXAH used this on me too. He said that I abandoned him when he needed me most (right after he became frighteningly abusive no less). I just try to remind myself that when we married, I specifically told him that I was not going to say "in sickness" because he had to be responsible for his own disease. So I didn't vow to look after an addict. I did vow to love him and I will love him forever (or just love the memory of him). As far as I'm concerned, he broke all his vows. You can't love and respect a person if you're constantly lying to them. You can't grow and change with them if you're not taking responsibility for your own mental health.
I feel for you, because I always doubt myself too. I go back and forth between knowing I did the right thing, and feeling intensely sad about having had to do it... and also I still hear his voice in my head, screaming at me about how I abandoned him.
I don't know if your husband is trying to hurt you further, but that is the effect his words (and actions are having), and maybe no contact is best.
The problem is, your husband feels sorry for himself and while he is still an active addict and not in recovery, it is unlikely that he will stop feeling sorry for himself. My STBXAH also feels sorry for himself. My STBXAH is selfish -- in some ways, he never got over his childhood, so he has the narcissism that is natural in children, but dangerous in adults.
I find that a lot of addicts that are NOT in recovery are people who do not look too closely at their own mental health issues. They don't know themselves. They avoid really looking at reality. So how would they know if their loved ones abandoned them or not? They have abandoned the world for drugs and alcohol, literally.
I think you know if your husband is being manipulative or not, intentionally or not. If you want to know what I think... I feel 100% that he's full of crap and may or may not know it... but it's pointless to try to figure him out.
What good does it do for you to think that you abandoned him anyway? Does he want you to take him back? Is he sober? No. Do you feel manipulated? Yes? Then that's all you need to know to stay safe.
These days I try not to hear or know what my STBXAH is saying/has said about me or doing or seeing. It's always upsetting. I feel like I'm listening to a complete stranger when I hear him -- a complete stranger that took over the body of someone I love and destroyed it.
I feel for you, because I always doubt myself too. I go back and forth between knowing I did the right thing, and feeling intensely sad about having had to do it... and also I still hear his voice in my head, screaming at me about how I abandoned him.
I don't know if your husband is trying to hurt you further, but that is the effect his words (and actions are having), and maybe no contact is best.
The problem is, your husband feels sorry for himself and while he is still an active addict and not in recovery, it is unlikely that he will stop feeling sorry for himself. My STBXAH also feels sorry for himself. My STBXAH is selfish -- in some ways, he never got over his childhood, so he has the narcissism that is natural in children, but dangerous in adults.
I find that a lot of addicts that are NOT in recovery are people who do not look too closely at their own mental health issues. They don't know themselves. They avoid really looking at reality. So how would they know if their loved ones abandoned them or not? They have abandoned the world for drugs and alcohol, literally.
I think you know if your husband is being manipulative or not, intentionally or not. If you want to know what I think... I feel 100% that he's full of crap and may or may not know it... but it's pointless to try to figure him out.
What good does it do for you to think that you abandoned him anyway? Does he want you to take him back? Is he sober? No. Do you feel manipulated? Yes? Then that's all you need to know to stay safe.
These days I try not to hear or know what my STBXAH is saying/has said about me or doing or seeing. It's always upsetting. I feel like I'm listening to a complete stranger when I hear him -- a complete stranger that took over the body of someone I love and destroyed it.
Originally Posted by Csupport 
So l left after 9 years of marriage and 20 years of friendship. No doubt that my decision was correct because my husband refused to seek long term support and the decline in our marriage got to a point of no return. What hits me hard is the latest tactic of manipulation being that I didn't stick to our wedding vows by abandoning him. I gave ultimatums and not support. Am I wrong in feeling as though it was me who was let down, lied to and neglected and the wedding vows stunt just a desperate attempt to hurt me further?
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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Wow, the feedback and response to my question has been incredible. Yes, you are all right. He neglected his vows, he's doing what he can to hurt me and yes I seem to gain nothing from trying to rationalise with him or explain my intentions. He's a stranger. We speak different languages and his emotional maturity is that of a child. I historically felt I could get thru to him but since leaving I have brief periods of clarity and understanding but it's like ground hog day, by the next day he's harping on about the same issue. My question now is this, how do you detach when you essentially still love someone and worry about their wellbeing (not that I will ever tolerate that life again) but also when you have a child and business and long standing friendship together?
Thank you for the support thus far. It's a lonely existence in the mind of a spouse of an alcoholic.
Thank you for the support thus far. It's a lonely existence in the mind of a spouse of an alcoholic.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
If you don't have a lawyer, you might need one to negotiate childcare/visitation. It's not a good idea for a child to be alone unsupervised with an active alcoholic. I know a woman whose alcoholic husband took the kids camping for a weekend and was too drunk to see that the toddler was getting sunburned -- kid ended up in hospital. I would also remove the addict from your business because you can't rely on them to be responsible. It will get messy. Friendship... are you still friends? I mean, are you still friends with him as he is now? Because he may never be what he once was. He might, but he might not and you can't count on it. Recovery takes years (if ever).
Originally Posted by Csupport
My question now is this, how do you detach when you essentially still love someone and worry about their wellbeing (not that I will ever tolerate that life again) but also when you have a child and business and long standing friendship together?
Thank you for the support thus far. It's a lonely existence in the mind of a spouse of an alcoholic.
Thank you for the support thus far. It's a lonely existence in the mind of a spouse of an alcoholic.
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**** wise words. Perhaps I do start accepting the loss, as you are right, he may never recover. With regards to our son I have given him freedom to see him during the day when he doesn't drink (although his request for him has been minimal) but he's not to stay with him at night and that is non negotiable (for obvious reasons). With our business, that is a problem. I may have to start treating him more like an employee though as his input is not what it should be. It's hard to destroy their lives by taking away everything. There is still some hope that our business and child will inspire some change. Naive. I know it is.
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Originally Posted by Csupport
It's hard to destroy their lives by taking away everything.
He is an adult and is entitled to make any decisions he wants to make. However, like any other adult, he gets to live w/the consequences of those decisions. HIS decisions, HIS consequences. Not up to you to soften the landing.
Did he need your help to become an alcoholic? No? Well, he doesn't need it to quit, either. Sorry that is so blunt, but it's the truth.
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Do you become an alcoholic though. He spent a long period if time telling me it was like any other disease. My justification was that if I had cancer (his example, not mine) and I chose for forgo treatment and lived an unhealthy lifestyle, I too would not be surprised that my family grew frustrated with me and my lack of effort. His vows (back to that) should have been in effect a responsibility to recognise his "disease" and seek ongoing treatment. It's too easy to play the victim and I'm tired of the self pity he plays on and ongoing blame for his failures. Gosh, I'm really venting here. Apologies!
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C - I am so sorry for your experience. I hope you don’t mind me saying this as a joke but it sounds like your ex and my STBXAH are on a different forum together sharing stories of how to be a$$holes and manipulate us. I have heard the exact same BS almost verbatim. Ugh!
Stay strong!
Stay strong!
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
They do sound all the same. Hang in there - the only thing that helps is lack of reaction
XAH complains that (I have to maintain contact because we have a child together)
1) I excluded him from my life after divorce (it is the point of getting divorce I thought)
2) I ruined our marriage and was not supportive of him, diseased alcoholic
3) I made him miserable for all 12 years we were married
4) his financial problems are my fault
5) I never loved him
6) I am not nice and unloveable.
All of the above is completely crazy and not even close to reality - he relapsed all the time, stole money, cheated, did drugs, the list goes on.
The only thing I regret are my reactions. I now realize I could have had much more peaceful life even with active addiction around. I was, indeed, a nagging hag by the end of our union, and did not like myself at all.
Hang in there - and stick around, this place was instrumental in figuring things out for me
XAH complains that (I have to maintain contact because we have a child together)
1) I excluded him from my life after divorce (it is the point of getting divorce I thought)
2) I ruined our marriage and was not supportive of him, diseased alcoholic
3) I made him miserable for all 12 years we were married
4) his financial problems are my fault
5) I never loved him
6) I am not nice and unloveable.
All of the above is completely crazy and not even close to reality - he relapsed all the time, stole money, cheated, did drugs, the list goes on.
The only thing I regret are my reactions. I now realize I could have had much more peaceful life even with active addiction around. I was, indeed, a nagging hag by the end of our union, and did not like myself at all.
Hang in there - and stick around, this place was instrumental in figuring things out for me
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Posts: 5
Originally Posted by BAW81
C - I am so sorry for your experience. I hope you don’t mind me saying this as a joke but it sounds like your ex and my STBXAH are on a different forum together sharing stories of how to be a$$holes and manipulate us. I have heard the exact same BS almost verbatim. Ugh!
Stay strong!
Stay strong!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it would likely behoove you to make an appointment with an attorney...i am not suggesting you race to divorce court, but with a business in the mix, things get a bit tricky to unravel and more importantly, to protect.
HE doesn't care. HE isn't on a forum trying to figure out what he could do to make things better. HE isn't worried about the future of the business. or his wife. or his child. or those words, i mean, vows he stated once upon a time.
having some solid legal opinion can help you move forward. and can help mitigate the damage alcoholic's cause.
HE doesn't care. HE isn't on a forum trying to figure out what he could do to make things better. HE isn't worried about the future of the business. or his wife. or his child. or those words, i mean, vows he stated once upon a time.
having some solid legal opinion can help you move forward. and can help mitigate the damage alcoholic's cause.
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My two cents, though you really don't need it with all the rest of the great wisdom here.
I too, am of the 'I took a vow of marriage in front of God' and it's hard for me to leave that. Well, God doesn't approve of adultery, and alcoholics fall in love with their DOC, and stop being a partner in marriage. Their love is the bottle, not you.
In my case, AW had an emotional affair with her now-former boss, and supposedly I "pushed her to his arms" by my actions. QUACK!!!
And one more thing - you don;t run to the corner store to buy cancer. More quack.
COD
I too, am of the 'I took a vow of marriage in front of God' and it's hard for me to leave that. Well, God doesn't approve of adultery, and alcoholics fall in love with their DOC, and stop being a partner in marriage. Their love is the bottle, not you.
In my case, AW had an emotional affair with her now-former boss, and supposedly I "pushed her to his arms" by my actions. QUACK!!!
And one more thing - you don;t run to the corner store to buy cancer. More quack.
COD
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It's too easy to play the victim and I'm tired of the self pity he plays on and ongoing blame for his failures. Gosh, I'm really venting here. Apologies!
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I got a similar line, about how unfair I was being and alcoholism is a disease like any other, and if he were behaving erratically because he had a brain injury, would I be as harsh and not let him see our kid unsupervised? My response was that I didn't care whether his behavior was caused by drinking or a brain injury or mind control by aliens, the point was that his actions were unsafe. You don't have to get into the whole alcoholism-is-a-disease thing, if he's behaving in ways that are not acceptable for you to live with, you don't have an obligation to live with them.
And it sounds like he checked out of the marriage quite a while ago.
And it sounds like he checked out of the marriage quite a while ago.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 425
Ah the battle cry of the alcoholic "victim." It sounds like he abandoned his vows a long time before you left. I'm sure you felt abandoned, neglected, etc. while he was doing his thing, so don't let guilt get the best of you.
If you feel like you are better off mentally, emotionally and spiritually (without factoring in his attempts at making you feel guilty), then you made the right choice.
Stay strong
If you feel like you are better off mentally, emotionally and spiritually (without factoring in his attempts at making you feel guilty), then you made the right choice.
Stay strong
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
I'm not divorced yet but everything else on this list has happened to me.
Also, about child visitation and the business, bear in mind that addiction is often progressive. So the little you can "rely" on him now, might disappear (is likely to), and you might have trouble by allowing your kid to see him during the day because he might start drinking then. But take things one step at a time.
Also, about child visitation and the business, bear in mind that addiction is often progressive. So the little you can "rely" on him now, might disappear (is likely to), and you might have trouble by allowing your kid to see him during the day because he might start drinking then. But take things one step at a time.
Originally Posted by Nata1980
They do sound all the same. Hang in there - the only thing that helps is lack of reaction
XAH complains that (I have to maintain contact because we have a child together)
1) I excluded him from my life after divorce (it is the point of getting divorce I thought)
2) I ruined our marriage and was not supportive of him, diseased alcoholic
3) I made him miserable for all 12 years we were married
4) his financial problems are my fault
5) I never loved him
6) I am not nice and unloveable.
All of the above is completely crazy and not even close to reality - he relapsed all the time, stole money, cheated, did drugs, the list goes on.
The only thing I regret are my reactions. I now realize I could have had much more peaceful life even with active addiction around. I was, indeed, a nagging hag by the end of our union, and did not like myself at all.
Hang in there - and stick around, this place was instrumental in figuring things out for me
XAH complains that (I have to maintain contact because we have a child together)
1) I excluded him from my life after divorce (it is the point of getting divorce I thought)
2) I ruined our marriage and was not supportive of him, diseased alcoholic
3) I made him miserable for all 12 years we were married
4) his financial problems are my fault
5) I never loved him
6) I am not nice and unloveable.
All of the above is completely crazy and not even close to reality - he relapsed all the time, stole money, cheated, did drugs, the list goes on.
The only thing I regret are my reactions. I now realize I could have had much more peaceful life even with active addiction around. I was, indeed, a nagging hag by the end of our union, and did not like myself at all.
Hang in there - and stick around, this place was instrumental in figuring things out for me
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