Smarie78

There have been recent times where I could swear ABF is drunk. It's in the way he talks and moves, not like he's blasted out of his mind, but when when something is just off and your gut tells you he is drunk. Just subtle enough, but you know something is not right.

So when he asks me if something is wrong and I am obviously irritated and accuse him of being drunk, I feel like what if I am wrong and he really was just tired? Or down? This has happened a couple of times recently, (many times I did find that he was in fact drunk and he ended up admitting it.) But there are times where he is extra careful so that there is no smoking gun.

How do you handle these situations? It makes me not want to spend time with him because lately he seems off more than not. But then what if I am wrong and he is truly trying? I'd feel like a real heel for being suspicious.

dandylion

For me...I could tell. Every single time.
I would say..."you have been drinking". When he (invariably) tried to deny....I would say "That is a statement-not a question" If he tried to discuss it any further...I would say "It is not up for debate".

I think it comes down to trusting yourself.

Jo2017

Hi Smarie--I went through the exact same thing, always doubting myself and not trusting my gut. In fact, I would accept the blame and feel guilty when he would accuse me of never trusting him. But guess what, my gut was right and you know what you know. Finally, I am able to look back at those times and instead of feeling stupid for being so gullible, I give myself credit for knowing-now that I have that knowledge, I will trust my gut and inner voice next time. Progress!

hopeful4

Oh gosh. I totally remember this. My XAH had a certain way of talking, and a certain way of even holding himself physically if he had any to drink (he mixed with Rx drugs). So I ALWAYS knew. I always felt he tried to make me crazy by denying it. In reality, it's just what addicts do.

Eventually, I did what Dandy did, it was just a statement. Then eventually, I did nothing. You know why? It did not make any difference anyways. I had to figure out myself what actions I was going to take for myself and my children, and trying to get him to admit he had been drinking, when I knew he had, was just a waste of time and energy.

You have to learn to trust yourself.

Hugs.

Becki67

After living with my ABF for 13 years, I can tell just by looking at him what he drank and exactly how much. I can tell if it was Jager or quervo or just beer. In a second and without him saying a word.

Trust yourself. They have a way of making us second guess our instincts.

Smarie78

Thank you all. And I appreciate you answering my question when I am sure some of you wanted to say "why are you dealing with this toddler still?!"

It was just one of those moments where I was absolutely without a doubt sure of it. But then they call you and sound so shocked that how dare you think they were up to something when they are so diligently trying! I just know as many of you do, what it looks like. After you know someone for years and have seen them sober and drunk you know the exact cues. And again, it's not the obvious stuff, it's in the subtleness. Maybe 3 drinks instead of what he looks like at 15. The things he says, the way his eyes are, the way he even falls asleep hours earlier than normal, squashed face - hard tilted neck, head resting in his hand, deep heavy sleep, vs. normal falling asleep. Even the way his voice drops an octave. The way he behaves right before. The distraction in his eyes like he is trying to figure out how he will get those drinks with pesty old me around. He gets up earlier than me and of course I heard the familiar sound of the aspirin bottle opening.
The thing is, is that it's almost as though they believe their own lies. He even had the nerve to leave me a love note this morning and text me like nothing was unusual the night before. He stepped out once at my place last night where I was making us a nice dinner, and he said he had to call his sponsor. But he came back three sheets to the wind not but 15 minutes later. Did I mention my apartment is connected to a bar?

Anyhow, I am going to stick to my guns this weekend and take off from being together. It's not a punishment as he will see it, but more so with each stunt he pulls, I need to distance myself otherwise I am essentially enabling him and saying it is ok to treat me as a crack house. He doesn't pull this same stuff at his Sober Living house, it seems to be when he comes to my place and is spending the night. He is attempting to be a "functional alcoholic" and thinks that if he can still go to work the next day he is fine.

It's going to be in the mid 80's this week. Indian summer here in the Midwest. I also have my second session of tutor training for my volunteer group this weekend. I intend to make it a healthy one, stress-free.

PinkPetuna

Smarie,

Your question is so timely for me. I know exactly what you are talking about. For the past 2 nights I saw the evidence of drinking when my gut knew for the past month or two. It wasn't much, but I actually feel relieved to have seen it. I even took pictures so I couldn't be talked out of what I saw. Trusting myself is not easy. I haven't confronted him yet. I'm not sure how. I will definitely use the statement rather than question approach (thanks dandylion!).

PinkPetuna

hopeful4

He wants to carry on as though nothing happened. That is what he wants. For you to shut up while he does what he wants. You are right, it's toddler behavior that only you can decide how long you will put up with. You deserve so much more, you know that right??

I can only say that I understand it on many levels. I stayed way too long, but it was a journey I had to figure out for myself, just as you do friend.

Ariesagain

Maybe just assume he's drinking. He usually is.

You not wanting to falsely accuse him? He's accused you of plenty, with a whole lot less basis.

Wanting to believe he might "really be trying"? You're lying to yourself.

This is him. He is who he is. He drinks. He lies.

Maybe you can settle for that.

Maybe you can't.

In the end, it's your choice, just like drinking is his.

SparkleKitty

Whether he has been drinking or not is not relevant. You simply onnot have to spend time with anyone who is behaving in a way that makes you uncomfortable. You don't need to explain yourself or justify your choice. You are an adult, and you have the option of spending time with someone or not.

Ariesagain

It's really selfish of him to be taking up a slot in sober living when he clearly isn't and isn't trying to be.

Someone who is genuinely trying to turn his life around could be there getting support.

nez

Accusations are never a positive. They are attaching blame. I would merely say that I am having trouble dealing with your behavior right now. That is a statement of a fact.

Smarie78

I like this. I think that is what it is. What is the point or healthy part of me accusing anybody of anything? That really has never been the person I am. I always give benefit of the doubt. I would never want to be accused of something I didn't do, I have been plenty of times by him but there was literally no basis. This time my basis has been him drinking recently - not relapsing on his usual binge, but sneaking drinks. The last incident of it was just this past Friday when we went to the movies and he was bombed. And the days before that when we would hang out he was also drunk. So if I suspected he was last night, odds are that he was.

But I love this idea. The fact that I don't have to worry about accusing anybody of anything. Even if he was not drinking and I got it wrong, his behavior was not comfortable to me. And that should be enough. All I know is that last night I felt uncomfortable around him. And again, that should be just enough to say you don't want somebody around you.

Aries - I agree with you. He doesn't display any desire to stop. He is drinking and sneaking it. Lying to me too. He is not there at the SL house treating it as a recovery. He is there because it's all he can afford and all that will let him feel like he is actually doing something. He is passively living there. For me, it's insulting because he is also wasting my time. When you are IAR and the person you are with loves you and agrees to support you in recovery, and you **** it away, it's wasting my time.

Only I can change - I just get so disheartened when I feel like his recovery is not even at the starting line no matter how many chances I've given and support to get there.

Ariesagain

I'm curious...does he give you any indication that he is in any way unhappy about his drinking?

Not the consequences of his drinking...I'm sure he'd much rather he was back defiling your couch on a permanent basis than occasionally having to spend a night at the sober house when you put your foot down.

Does he ever admit that his problems (his, not yours) are caused by his drinking? Does he ever have a moment of seeming sincerity when he says he has a drinking problem, other than when you are bringing it up?

Granted, this is the internet and therefore only a very small part of the picture is viewed, but my impression over these months is that he's just fine with his drinking...it's all of you trying to make him stop that is the problem. So he pays just enough lip service to the recovery concept to get by.

We all project what we want to see on the people we love. "Love is blind" is a definite thing. But I just wonder if you're projecting all of this effort and desire to recover onto him that just isn't there?

Smarie78

Aries - I think you are right. I guess because his binges have been so awful I can't fathom anyone would willingly choose to be there. He keeps telling me his bottom was the last binge where he panhandled and slept several nights in a forest preserve. That he can't fathom going back to that place again. That's the thing, when he is not drinking he seems so happy. So normal. I just feel that while I believe he would never want to go down that road, he also doesn't really want to stop what leads to it. These little episodes of sneaking drinks have historically and always led to the big one - the big bender relapse.

Even if he were honest with me it would be a start. Like, hey yes I drank some yesterday and it's really tough and I don't know how to stop. But the denial feels mental, as if he truly believes he wasn't despite all the evidence to the contrary. As you suggest, this will always be about me, not him. If he is fine living this way or even if he isn't but let's say he has accepted that this is his life, I, cannot seem to. And that is ok. But then what am I in this for? Questions to ask myself.

Ariesagain

As a member of Team A, I can tell you that from his behaviors since his last binge, the rest of the sentence "I can't fathom ever going back to that place again" is, "so I will DEFINITELY control it better from now on."

Or, "I won't drink x again, I'll drink y instead."

Or, "I won't combine alcohol with sleeping pills (or other drug involved) next time"

Or, "I won't drink when I haven't eaten or haven't slept next time."

Or any combination thereof.

Since he has been drinking both secretly and in your face since that binge, that was not anywhere close to his bottom and it sounds like he still doesn't think that applies to him?

dandylion

Smarie and SparkleKitty.....I should have added to my post, that , the boundary that I had made was, that, if, my adult son was not totally--completely--sober, then he couldn't be at my house.
So, if I detected drinking...he had to leave.
I didn't say it mean....but, when I stated that he had been drinking...he knew the gig was up, and he had to move along....(and, he would)..
He was totally welcome if he was sober. He was my son, and, not my lover, spouse, etc.

Smarie78

What happened if you weren't sure whether he was or not? Say, you know in your gut it sure seemed like he was, but you couldn't actually tell. ABF knows I have a zero tolerance policy in my house now. That he can drink all he wants, he just can't come over and be drunk. I feel like I was so far with my boundaries of having that rule, but somehow he found this loophole to where he could be drunk, but I wouldn't actually be able to know (though I do know he was, even if he says he was not).

Now of course he is playing the victim sending messages like "I know you don't believe me and I don't blame you I have a bad track record, I can tell you hate me. sorry for ruining your life. I'll just leave you alone today". I am not giving in, normally I do and I convince him that he isn't those things and I am the one who's sorry. Not today though, tired of games.

dandylion

Smarie....I was always sure. He didn't even have to say a word. I could see him walking across the lawn, at a distance, and tell if he had been drinking only one half of a beer. I was right, and I knew it. Just like you say that you do.
I had had it... and, I had told him that I would never let alcoholism walk into my house, ever again. I loved him too much to let him do that any more...and, I cared about my own sanity enough to not let myself go through that with a loved one, ever again. I had reached my bottom....I could n ot go through one more argument or cry any more tears.....
I was done.
He is such a lovely person and we have always been close. I cannot tell you how much love I have for him....
I had to have that boundary...and, it had to be absolute...and, it was up to me to enforce it....

Smarie78

He has. I would say every week for the last month plus I have found evidence that he was. Last Friday there was a small vodka bottle in his bag, and he got up to get a drink 2X during the movie we were at. He later admitted he had beers after work with coworkers when his drunkenness was obvious, but he is an isolated man so I doubt that - it was just easier than telling me he bought vodka and drank alone. I usually see him Wednesdays and then the weekend. The last 4 Wednesdays now he has been drunk, this last one was the only time he denied it. But it was very apparent.

I know nothing has changed...I don't know why it keeps shocking me :/