Struggling with recovery
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 127
Struggling with recovery
Dear all,
First, thank you so much for contributing to this forum, it has been very helpful for me. I have spent many a craving here.
So to my problem, I have made it several times into the recovery phase, I've gotten 3 months, 9 months, 18 months...and I never got quite convinced that abstinence is worth it. First I tried AA. That just made me focus on alcohol more, and I actually became less obsessed when I quit. At that time I realized that the main problem was doing something about the reason I drank. It has basically been self-medication for all kinds of pain; physical, emotional and existential.
I have proceeded to do very constructive things with that, diet, exercise, relationships, career in helping others, spirituality up until monk-level...and yet. I just don't get it. It feels like life is going to be an eternal joyless struggle. And I just don't see the point in "adulting" any more. Oh, yes, and I have been looking into various depression treatments. Regardless of depression level, however, the core of the problem seems to remain.
My last idea is to just escape the materialistic rat race. And at face value, I am more happy when I am free for a few days, and I more rarely think about alcohol then. On the other hand, without any accountability, I am afraid that a hypothetical relapse might get more out of control...
So any new ideas are appreciated.
Best wishes for you all!
First, thank you so much for contributing to this forum, it has been very helpful for me. I have spent many a craving here.
So to my problem, I have made it several times into the recovery phase, I've gotten 3 months, 9 months, 18 months...and I never got quite convinced that abstinence is worth it. First I tried AA. That just made me focus on alcohol more, and I actually became less obsessed when I quit. At that time I realized that the main problem was doing something about the reason I drank. It has basically been self-medication for all kinds of pain; physical, emotional and existential.
I have proceeded to do very constructive things with that, diet, exercise, relationships, career in helping others, spirituality up until monk-level...and yet. I just don't get it. It feels like life is going to be an eternal joyless struggle. And I just don't see the point in "adulting" any more. Oh, yes, and I have been looking into various depression treatments. Regardless of depression level, however, the core of the problem seems to remain.
My last idea is to just escape the materialistic rat race. And at face value, I am more happy when I am free for a few days, and I more rarely think about alcohol then. On the other hand, without any accountability, I am afraid that a hypothetical relapse might get more out of control...
So any new ideas are appreciated.
Best wishes for you all!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
You probably don't want to hear my thoughts- but I think you stated the crux of the problem near the beginning of the post - you aren't convinced abstinence, on a permanent basis rather than months or such, is worth it.
Until I decided that, I kept on drinking no matter "what else" I did - I just chose to ignore that I had to get drinking out of the equation to REALLY see what a better life I, a real alcoholic, can (and DO, so so much) have in recovery.
Once you make that commitment, an IRL recovery program of action - with other things like you mention in addition to it- can end that struggle.
Hope you make that choice.
Until I decided that, I kept on drinking no matter "what else" I did - I just chose to ignore that I had to get drinking out of the equation to REALLY see what a better life I, a real alcoholic, can (and DO, so so much) have in recovery.
Once you make that commitment, an IRL recovery program of action - with other things like you mention in addition to it- can end that struggle.
Hope you make that choice.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, Austerities.
Welcome to SR. Glad you found us.
For me, finally accepting that I couldn't drink anymore was key.
I had tried to cut back, to moderate, without success.
It was as if a switch had been flipped in my brain, and I had to drink until I was drunk.
Once I recognized this, my way forward became much clearer.
Welcome to SR. Glad you found us.
For me, finally accepting that I couldn't drink anymore was key.
I had tried to cut back, to moderate, without success.
It was as if a switch had been flipped in my brain, and I had to drink until I was drunk.
Once I recognized this, my way forward became much clearer.
2/2016
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 582
Perhaps you should give of yourself more going forward, volunteer or sponsor something you really care about. Are you writing down a gratitude list? I get you are tired of adulting, I get you wonder what is the point. Perhaps reaching outside yourself will help.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
There are several schools of thought on this subject. I’ll give you mine. First of all, “recovery” is a broad term. And many use it as a catch all. Some say you need to do X,Y or Z in order to “recover”. Many folks spend the rest of their lives in “recovery”. Some folks just quit drinking and get on with their lives.
Abstinence then fixing oneself, are together what can be termed as “recovery”. Abstinence alone will not alleviate the underlying issues – if there are any – that lure one into drinking. But until one removes the drinking – and the desire to drink – from their being, they will be unprepared to move into the phase of “fixing oneself”.
What many do not understand is the effect of long term alcohol abuse on the brain. It literally changes your physiology – it is a medically proven fact. And the healing process from this can takes several years, or sometimes may never be reversed. And that is why you often hear people say they will die if they drink again. Or that it gets worse when you “go back out”. It usually does. I say usually because there is the tiniest possibility that it won’t. But that is about the same odds as buying a lottery ticket hoping to win a hundred million dollars.
So stopping drinking is priority one. Do everything necessary to remove alcohol from your life. After a month, 90 days, six months, you will begin to notice changes. It is around this time you begin to think more clearly and are better able to understand yourself and your needs. This is the most critical time in the “recovery” process. This is the time you become more able to “fix yourself”.
There are many avenues to take. Some go the spiritual route (steps and religion) while others can discover themselves through reading – self help – or by counseling or therapy. Seeing an addiction specialist or therapist is recommended if possible. Rehabs are helpful in that they ‘protect’ you from yourself for a period of time with the hope that you will continue being abstinent and follow a plan when you leave.
But, DO NOT WAIT a month, 90 days or six months to seek help and guidance. Stopping and getting help should be done together. It’s just that in the beginning, one may not feel the benefits and may become frustrated thinking they are wasting their time. This is the most difficult time for addicts. Most expect things to change immediately and that is just not a reasonable expectation. I’ve heard it said something like this: It took you 10 years (insert your number) to get this way, do you expect it to be fixed in one month? Six months? A year? The key to being successful regardless of which “method” you choose is that you must have faith that in time, as long as you stay on track, there will be improvement. When you hear that it gets better, believe it. But don’t expect it to happen overnight. This is the one time in your life that you must have faith in something, faith that it does get better. Never give up.
Abstinence then fixing oneself, are together what can be termed as “recovery”. Abstinence alone will not alleviate the underlying issues – if there are any – that lure one into drinking. But until one removes the drinking – and the desire to drink – from their being, they will be unprepared to move into the phase of “fixing oneself”.
What many do not understand is the effect of long term alcohol abuse on the brain. It literally changes your physiology – it is a medically proven fact. And the healing process from this can takes several years, or sometimes may never be reversed. And that is why you often hear people say they will die if they drink again. Or that it gets worse when you “go back out”. It usually does. I say usually because there is the tiniest possibility that it won’t. But that is about the same odds as buying a lottery ticket hoping to win a hundred million dollars.
So stopping drinking is priority one. Do everything necessary to remove alcohol from your life. After a month, 90 days, six months, you will begin to notice changes. It is around this time you begin to think more clearly and are better able to understand yourself and your needs. This is the most critical time in the “recovery” process. This is the time you become more able to “fix yourself”.
There are many avenues to take. Some go the spiritual route (steps and religion) while others can discover themselves through reading – self help – or by counseling or therapy. Seeing an addiction specialist or therapist is recommended if possible. Rehabs are helpful in that they ‘protect’ you from yourself for a period of time with the hope that you will continue being abstinent and follow a plan when you leave.
But, DO NOT WAIT a month, 90 days or six months to seek help and guidance. Stopping and getting help should be done together. It’s just that in the beginning, one may not feel the benefits and may become frustrated thinking they are wasting their time. This is the most difficult time for addicts. Most expect things to change immediately and that is just not a reasonable expectation. I’ve heard it said something like this: It took you 10 years (insert your number) to get this way, do you expect it to be fixed in one month? Six months? A year? The key to being successful regardless of which “method” you choose is that you must have faith that in time, as long as you stay on track, there will be improvement. When you hear that it gets better, believe it. But don’t expect it to happen overnight. This is the one time in your life that you must have faith in something, faith that it does get better. Never give up.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,518
Hi and welcome , reading your post makes me think about the times I was abstinent then began drinking . Much like yourself I had various times the most being 2 years of abstinence ( this was in a 10 year period 2007 -present ) .
I repeat the word abstinence because thats what it was as opposed to recovery via a structured recovery method . Yes I had AA for abouta year but found it was having an adverse effect on me then went it alone for another year .
I believe and have said it here often that the root of my alcohol abuse was extreme shyness ,lack of confidence ,now called social anxiety .
Fair enough so I understand that now but if I know the root of my alcoholism what happened when this realisation became apparent to me ? I mean I knew the root cause so why even if I am on a desert island with no reason to be shy or embarrased or insecure I still couldnt drink alcohol NORMALLY . If there was a huge refrigerator full of booze I would want it all . Is there something else at play when a certain line is crossed whether we know the root cause or not ? I believe so .
I repeat the word abstinence because thats what it was as opposed to recovery via a structured recovery method . Yes I had AA for abouta year but found it was having an adverse effect on me then went it alone for another year .
I believe and have said it here often that the root of my alcohol abuse was extreme shyness ,lack of confidence ,now called social anxiety .
Fair enough so I understand that now but if I know the root of my alcoholism what happened when this realisation became apparent to me ? I mean I knew the root cause so why even if I am on a desert island with no reason to be shy or embarrased or insecure I still couldnt drink alcohol NORMALLY . If there was a huge refrigerator full of booze I would want it all . Is there something else at play when a certain line is crossed whether we know the root cause or not ? I believe so .
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,492
I wonder if you've talked to your dr about the possibility of depression. I drank in part to self-medicate depression and I had to get it properly diagnosed and treated in order to recover. I hope you find the motivation to stay sober.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
Hi austerities 
some folks can up and quit and thats all they need to do to make their life great again. Others like me, had to start to deal with the underlying reasons I drank over.
I worked hard to build a sober life I love. I reckoned a life you love is something you don't want to escape from.
There was a lot of hard work - especially the first year, but its been worth it.
D
some folks can up and quit and thats all they need to do to make their life great again. Others like me, had to start to deal with the underlying reasons I drank over.
I worked hard to build a sober life I love. I reckoned a life you love is something you don't want to escape from.
There was a lot of hard work - especially the first year, but its been worth it.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 127
Thank you all for your support and you helpful suggestions!
I agree with and have tried all of them. Also continue to do them. Except the medical thing, don't really think they have much to offer. From the metanalyses I've read, the side effects seem as large as the mediocre effects. So I hunt for my nutritional deficiencies instead. Must be some reason my brain is not producing sufficient amounts of serotonin. And the dopamine system I have for sure messed up (more) with drinking, although there is a chicken and egg thing there too.
Today some of the myalgias have let up and I have a little more energy, so it is a little easier to have hope and keep going (with helping myself and others round the clock). And I do remember. How things can be worse, and how they can be better. I think memory is really important when faith falters.
I definitely have to build a life I love, but I have no idea how. Except for diet, exercise and saving so I'll be as well prepared as possible for whatever that might be.
I agree with and have tried all of them. Also continue to do them. Except the medical thing, don't really think they have much to offer. From the metanalyses I've read, the side effects seem as large as the mediocre effects. So I hunt for my nutritional deficiencies instead. Must be some reason my brain is not producing sufficient amounts of serotonin. And the dopamine system I have for sure messed up (more) with drinking, although there is a chicken and egg thing there too.
Today some of the myalgias have let up and I have a little more energy, so it is a little easier to have hope and keep going (with helping myself and others round the clock). And I do remember. How things can be worse, and how they can be better. I think memory is really important when faith falters.
I definitely have to build a life I love, but I have no idea how. Except for diet, exercise and saving so I'll be as well prepared as possible for whatever that might be.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 285
Parapharasing Augusten Burroughs - you have to find something you love more than drinking.
None of us can tell you what that is, but you can keep trying until you find a passion. Most of the people I meet (online or IRL) that are happily sober, have a passion - mostly some sort of service. I can give ideas, but those are things that give me purpose and certainly yours will be different.
Anyway, here are a few to give a sense of what I am talking about:
Fostering animals
volunteering for homeless
taking classes in art
studying a particular time in history and becoming an expert
hiking in every single national park
running a half-marathon in every state
Learning carpentry
Becoming another sort of artisan - practice is meditative and perfects your craft.
Spending time on the water
The fact is, if you find life is joyless with alcohol, and you do start drinking, you'll just be killing time until you die. That sounds like depression to me.
None of us can tell you what that is, but you can keep trying until you find a passion. Most of the people I meet (online or IRL) that are happily sober, have a passion - mostly some sort of service. I can give ideas, but those are things that give me purpose and certainly yours will be different.
Anyway, here are a few to give a sense of what I am talking about:
Fostering animals
volunteering for homeless
taking classes in art
studying a particular time in history and becoming an expert
hiking in every single national park
running a half-marathon in every state
Learning carpentry
Becoming another sort of artisan - practice is meditative and perfects your craft.
Spending time on the water
The fact is, if you find life is joyless with alcohol, and you do start drinking, you'll just be killing time until you die. That sounds like depression to me.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
I struggled with recovery.
I struggled with my drinking.
I struggled with life.
I still struggle, but by giving up drinking, I cut the amount of my struggles down to two. As a result of giving up drinking, recovery has become easier and is no longer a struggle. So now I am down to one struggle.
I am not good at multitasking, so having only one struggle is much more manageable. In fact, it is becoming less of one as time goes by. I am getting a handle on this thing called life.
What a concept! :~)
I struggled with my drinking.
I struggled with life.
I still struggle, but by giving up drinking, I cut the amount of my struggles down to two. As a result of giving up drinking, recovery has become easier and is no longer a struggle. So now I am down to one struggle.
I am not good at multitasking, so having only one struggle is much more manageable. In fact, it is becoming less of one as time goes by. I am getting a handle on this thing called life.
What a concept! :~)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
I definitely have to build a life I love, but I have no idea how.
I genuinely believed life was an eternal joyless struggle - at least for me. The only thing that punctuated the gloom was drinking or getting high.
That belief was so entrenched it hung around for a while after I quit drinking.
Other people reassured me, but I had to run on faith that sober life would not be joyless or interminable....and once my mind cleared, I found it wasn't.
Life still has its black moments for sure, but now I can still remain positive in those moments. They are aberrations, not the default.
There were moments of great beauty and meaning in life that my search for oblivion blinded me to.
With that hope in me, I could start dealing with all the things I started drinking over...
D
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by Austerities 
I definitely have to build a life I love, but I have no idea how. Except for diet, exercise and saving so I'll be as well prepared as possible for whatever that might be.
I don't know if I would suggest you revisit AA at the moment as permanent abstinence does not seem to be what you are looking for. For me, when I reached the point of being willing to do anything to stop drinking and stay stopped, the AA path provided a very rewarding and satisfying way of life, so much so that drinking became redundant. AA might be something to keep up your sleeve for later.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Brain's eloquent post pretty much said it all. My only minor quibble is I believe that nearly every addict has some underlying issues that contribute to their addiction. There is definitely a genetic and cultural component as well, but there are reasons why we have become and remained addicts. Cognitive therapy, preferably in a group setting, gives tools to recognize distorted thinking, psychodynamic therapy can help process and release traumas handed to us when we were too young to deal with them. However you can't do any of this work until you abstain from addiction. It's not that our DOC is ineffective in relieving shyness, depression, or anxiety. Quite the contrary, they work TOO well, and provide instant relief to many of our ills, and quite easier than the hard work of therapy or working the steps or whatever you choose to work through the underlying causes of the addiction. Unfortunately such relief as provided by substances is temporary, illusive in the long term, and leads to ever increasing and grim consequences.
It's very possible that you are experiencing depression and anhedonia. Not sure why you write off medication without investigating it first. The side effects for modern antidepressants are relatively mild and short lived for a large majority of people, and they differ from each other. They can also be useful as a band aid while therapy begins to show results.
It's very possible that you are experiencing depression and anhedonia. Not sure why you write off medication without investigating it first. The side effects for modern antidepressants are relatively mild and short lived for a large majority of people, and they differ from each other. They can also be useful as a band aid while therapy begins to show results.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 216
I definitely identified with what you said about the rat race. I feel like everyone in the hamster wheel (in my line of work) are all "work hard play hard" high functioning alcoholics. It might not be true, but that's just how I felt working in finance in my 20s. Drinking on the weekends heavily to relax was enabled or encouraged. Even during work with "in house" work happy hours. And I know that not everyone is an alcoholic, some people can have 2 and be fine. I just find that a lot of people are really heavy drinkers in the rat racey type fields of work.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Austerities
My last idea is to just escape the materialistic rat race. And at face value, I am more happy when I am free for a few days, and I more rarely think about alcohol then. On the other hand, without any accountability, I am afraid that a hypothetical relapse might get more out of control...
you say the reason you drink: "medication for all kinds of pain; physical, emotional and existential. "
youd have all that STILL without the ratrace. you leave the ratrace and that stuff isnt gonna magically jump out of ya and stay behind.
until you decide to treat it all properly.
sooo, on the AA thing:
did you work the steps or just go to meetings?
nothin changes if nothin changes
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 127
Thank you all!
I am abstinent, coming up on 100 days soon. My biggest trigger for craving alcohol is exhaustion, and the jobs, (being of service with and with out pay), provides that on a regular basis. Like Yesterday i got up at 5:30 am, did personal spiritual practice, went to work, worked until 6:30 pm before I headed to volunteer work. Got home from that at 9:30 pm, brushed my teeth and went to bed. Rinse and repeat. When I am hungry, angry, exhausted and all that, it is hard to remember both the meaning in being of service and feel the higher power that I have successfully established a relationship with. Also it triggers inflammations = physical pain. I don't really have emotional pain anymore, or much feelings at all really, that was something the start of life and drinking. Now it is about physical pain, exhaustion and anhedonia, I just long to feel a little joy.
I did all the AA steps the first time around as a 19-20 year old, ending with getting an education to help others. Since then, fortunately, my drinking has mainly hurt myself. I still have the BB on the shelf in my office, and I have considered going to meetings, but I don't have a huge selection of them where I live, and as mentioned by someone I need to find some sober people I can relate to. For me it is more the fitness and executive folks. Last 10 years I have done intensive spiritual work in several traditions, developed a lot cognitively, emotionally and spiritually. So overall, life is much less something painful that "happens" to me and that I reach to or escape from. But I still have the desire to do the latter. Last years I've been working on self-compassion, which has been awesome. That really leads me to question my "austere" life though...
Currently, my favorite healthy escape is spiritual retreats, but I have decided to stay in the world for a while more before becoming a monk, so need to figure that balance out.
I am abstinent, coming up on 100 days soon. My biggest trigger for craving alcohol is exhaustion, and the jobs, (being of service with and with out pay), provides that on a regular basis. Like Yesterday i got up at 5:30 am, did personal spiritual practice, went to work, worked until 6:30 pm before I headed to volunteer work. Got home from that at 9:30 pm, brushed my teeth and went to bed. Rinse and repeat. When I am hungry, angry, exhausted and all that, it is hard to remember both the meaning in being of service and feel the higher power that I have successfully established a relationship with. Also it triggers inflammations = physical pain. I don't really have emotional pain anymore, or much feelings at all really, that was something the start of life and drinking. Now it is about physical pain, exhaustion and anhedonia, I just long to feel a little joy.
I did all the AA steps the first time around as a 19-20 year old, ending with getting an education to help others. Since then, fortunately, my drinking has mainly hurt myself. I still have the BB on the shelf in my office, and I have considered going to meetings, but I don't have a huge selection of them where I live, and as mentioned by someone I need to find some sober people I can relate to. For me it is more the fitness and executive folks. Last 10 years I have done intensive spiritual work in several traditions, developed a lot cognitively, emotionally and spiritually. So overall, life is much less something painful that "happens" to me and that I reach to or escape from. But I still have the desire to do the latter. Last years I've been working on self-compassion, which has been awesome. That really leads me to question my "austere" life though...
Currently, my favorite healthy escape is spiritual retreats, but I have decided to stay in the world for a while more before becoming a monk, so need to figure that balance out.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 127
Doing better with recovery
Hi,
Just a little update from me and another thanks for the sound advice I was given previously.
Acceptance is indeed a key word. Not only accepting that alcohol and other escapist activities are off the table, but also accepting that many things in life is hard, and emotions of all flavors will occur and pass all the time, and I am supposed to stay unmoving in the middle of it at all times. I took the bull by the horns and decided to not try to fix my stressful life, but to actively accept it and only spend energy on coping skills. It is so much easier without me adding so much resistance.
Also I feel great about riding out burnout and depression without any kind of escape. I feel strong and brave, but also very humbled. Thoughts of alcohol still pops up, but it's not really an option, and I have lots of gratitude for having quit and being relatively well functioning still. I have made a habit out of popping in here everytime the thought occurs and it works.
I have also made a habit of naming three things I am grateful for every morning, that works too. Eventually joy returned and I remember more and more things I like to do.
All the best!
Just a little update from me and another thanks for the sound advice I was given previously.
Acceptance is indeed a key word. Not only accepting that alcohol and other escapist activities are off the table, but also accepting that many things in life is hard, and emotions of all flavors will occur and pass all the time, and I am supposed to stay unmoving in the middle of it at all times. I took the bull by the horns and decided to not try to fix my stressful life, but to actively accept it and only spend energy on coping skills. It is so much easier without me adding so much resistance.
Also I feel great about riding out burnout and depression without any kind of escape. I feel strong and brave, but also very humbled. Thoughts of alcohol still pops up, but it's not really an option, and I have lots of gratitude for having quit and being relatively well functioning still. I have made a habit out of popping in here everytime the thought occurs and it works.
I have also made a habit of naming three things I am grateful for every morning, that works too. Eventually joy returned and I remember more and more things I like to do.
All the best!
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